Based on major discussions in praja we have seen that the main issue in switching over to public transport is not knowing the routes of the buses as majority board are in Kannada only. Hence I just thought of starting this blog where any query regarding BMTC routes would be answered. Answers will be based on the frequent routes available as it is impossible to know the timings of each and every bus plying on 2000 odd routes in Bangalore. any person who wished to know the route may please post the same in this blog.
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Comments
Query of BMTC routes
@SS87
Wonderful public service.
Hope you can manage.
Is there any route from Indiranagar to Vasanthnagar?
K.V.Pathy
K-1 runs via Indiranagar
K-1 runs via Indiranagar 100ft road and BDA complex and goes upto Vasanthanagar-the bus is available every 15 minutes once-the bus runs via Trinity circle, Shivajinagar bus stand to reach vasanthnagar. 197(Jeevanbhimanagar to sultanpalya) will also take you but low frequency
BIAS-4 from HAL to BIAL also available as it runs via Indiranagar.
You may also take any bus to Shivajinagar(139(Jeevanbhimanagar) 132 (Domlur)etc) and take any bus between 250 and 296 or 300-302 or 415 series leaving shivajinagar to vasanthnagar. Route no. 137 available to Cunningham road but frequency of same is quite low.
Great service
Great service, thank you.
Two questions,
1. is there any volvo between kadugudi bus station and Embassy Golf Links?
2. Any service between Fraser town & Subramaniyam Arcade (bannerghetta road)
Thank you in advance.
My question
SS87, This thread is going to be a hit, I can tell.
How do I go from Sanjaynagar main road to Ulsoor road?
Sources for bus route info
Whilst ss87 has graciously volunteered to provide info, I think we should not burden him with too many queries.
There is a route search feature on the BMTC webpage that can also be used - (Click here). It's only fair that we first try to find the required routes ourselves from there or from the route list (click here for ordinary buses or here, for vajras).
If doubts still persist, then of course, queries can be posted. Thanks for everyone's co-operation.
Route K1
@ss87
Many thanks.
Of course I will ask you only sparingly.
K.V.Pathy
@SS87, Route data from BMTC itself!
SS87,
Good initiative to provode the information for BMTC which was non-existent for some time. I appreciate yours and others in collating and maintining the BMTC route info.
Isn't it prudent that this information is available and maintained at BMTC rather than you or anybody else? I know somebody was working to build such system for BMTC. Do you know any progress on that front?
How do I go from Sanjaynagar
From Sanjaynagar 278B is direct bus but frequency is quite less. Take 278 or 278E to Indian Express,cross the road going towards shivajinagar and take any bus between 303 and 320 or K-1 or 132 or 139 coming from Shivajinagar to go to Ulsoor.
Volvo 411L is available between ITPL and Embassy Golf Links but the frequency is quite low. Better to take majestic bound volvoes(335 series) to domlur,walk donw to IRR and take 201D,G,M,MA,K-1,MBS-8,412 etc to EGL
Only ordinary services-Take any market/majestic/shivajinagar bound bus(between 292 and 296 series) to Indian Express, cross the road going towards shivajinagar to get to opposite side and take 161 series or 368 series from there.
Or else take a market bound bus (290-N, 290-R, 290-T,291, 291-A, 291-B, 291-E, 291-J, 291-N, 291-R, 292, 293, 293-A,293-B, 293-C, 293-D, 293-E, 293-F, 293-J, 293-K, 293-L, 293-M,294, 294-A, 294-D, 295, 296-G, 296-H ) to Corporation, walk down to the stop on mission road and take 365 series buses from there
http://www.narasimhadatta...
http://www.btis.in
have the details for major buses routes - the 1st site is better than the second site for it also has the hops/hop stops that you can possibly take
It is
It is http://www.narasimhadatta...
thanks
Thanks ss87. This information helps a lot.
You are welcome-also please
You are welcome-also please give your feedbacks on the route
Bus timings: Best practice
hello all,
it has been a while since I lived in Bangalore.
But with all the good work happening on praja: wanted to share some best practice I have seen in some of the European cities.
Most cities have time alerts at each bus stop for the buses that stop by. This is an electronic board that lists the buses that stop there and the wait time for the next bus e.g. Bus 69: 8 mins (means next bus #69 at this stop will be in 8 mins).
This is relatively inexpensive technology: a GPS on the bus, RFID chips at the stops and on the buses and software to coordinate the same.
While it is easy for regular travellers on regular routes, this is of immense help for the rest. And for regular travellers if the buses are running late !!!
I can volunteer to try and set up an interview with the bus service here in Paris to ask them how they did it and what the costs were..
Bus Timings and mapping them
Hello all,
We do not currently have a record of all the buses, bus stops and the timings. And considering there are 2000 buses, the data seems daunting to collect.
However, we must collect this data and publicise it for people to use buses more. I was in Bangalore recently for a week and just because I could not figure out which bus to take, at what time etc, I resorted to taking a auto around...and am not very happy about it..
Here are two ways we can potentially collect the data:
1) Make simple sheets with all stops for a certain route and hand it out to all the bus drivers every day. All they would have to do is enter the time they stopped at a particular bus stop. Even better if there is a way to do this with a timer and all that the driver has to do is press a button. We can collect this data for over a month and thereby get travel times at different times of the day etc...
This does require cooperation from the bus drivers / conductors. And stands the peril of false data, missing data and just plani apathy from them.
2) Hire college students to collect the data. We could allocate them bus rides (end-to-end) to sit down and note the actual times when they stop. We could either pay them a flat rate and / or by number of bus trips they can cover.
There are so many students who struggle to make ends meet and any extra money would also help them. With the right profile of interested, diligent students, we can have the whole thing mapped at minimal cost and more accurately.
While this is a one-stop activity, we have to get BMTC to update this every time they launch a new bus / new route. Uploading all this on the BMTC site would make it live and helpful.
Any thoughts welcome...
Amit - Good Inputs
amitc,
The arrival countdown signs that you refer to is a great feature, but maintenance of such systems in various exposed bustops India is a bit of a question mark :)
I don't think it is essential to actually time each bus along it's route for arrival times at various stops - times are likely to vary widely with time of day depending on traffic. An estimate of the arrival times at individual bus stops based on the scheduled trips should generally suffice to prepare timetables initially, followed by updating where necessary if variations are noted.
Anyway, the first thing to get done is obtain the dep times for all buses from terminals.
Arrival Countdown
You are right that the first thing to do is to get the departure times for all the buses from terminals.
In addition to many of the other reasons people dont use buses sufficiently in Bangalore are reliability and lack of information flow. Having arrival countdown meters would really help us bridge this gap.
- Arrival countdown is important particularly when the network is large. It will be difficult for people to actually carry around booklets with timings etc.
- I understand the challenge of maintenance of such systems: In general the technical maintenance is less of a worry; so are the climatic conditions given how many of these cities have really harsh weather (snow storms in winter and blazing summers). However, the upkeep by the general public will be a worry.
But my sense is - we have to start somewhere. And it looks like the public can be educated. I was very impressed with the Delhi Metro: both the trains and the stations. People maintained it well and riding them felt like you could be anywhere in the (so called) "developed" world...although the immediate area outside the stations left much to be desired...
In addition, these all build towards a world-class or superior infrastructure, encouraging the public to use PT..and its a small cost to bear for the same
Bus information at stops
It will be difficult for people to actually carry around booklets with timings
Bus route & time information posted at bus stops can help, though overhead real time LED signs are far superior, no doubt.
Data collection work going on
As you may be aware we are doing the work here already. Its tedious job, but men at work :) Feel free to contribute.
@naveen Nowadays the new
@naveen
Nowadays the new buses announce the stops based on how they are updated in route and this is mainly done on GPS-so if they can provide the info at the stop by tracking these buses it will eb seriously helpful-we can see major volvo routes displayed regarding arrival time at Jayanagar/shantinagar bus stops
Bus stop LEDs
ss87 - Such LEDs can be installed & maintained well in TTMCs & within buses since they are in protected /safer locations. I was referring to remote bus stops which are spread out all over the city. Also, there are multiple shelters at many bus stops.
The idea is great & can be started with signs at important stops first.
To maintain them all in good order, a large team would be necessary, moving from one sign to another to carry out checks & replacements, like streetlights - & we know how such efforts pan out in India -- many will remain defective.
Some stops on Airport Road ,
Some stops on Airport Road , Residency road too have the boards
some way to go!
Over 90% of the visitors to Paris, the most visited city in the world, are non-French speaking. In spite of that, they are all able to take to the city Metro, like to fish to water, just by looking at the one-sheet map (made out in French), plainly because the system is so simple and straight-forward. But, with BMTC's lofty objective of providing door-to-door service to every citizen, through its near 3,000 destination-oriented routes, it requires an ss87 to help even regular bus users to make head or tail out of its routing and scheduling, through his "ask-me" service.
Some way to go! Whatever, God bless the likes of ss87.
Thank you Mr. Muralidhar But
Thank you Mr. Muralidhar
But there are hardly any questions posed-Please dont think you are torubling me-i will be answering questions in my free time only-if at all I have trouble I hav few friends who an help me out
@Murali
I think the precise reason that the Paris Bus Network system is so useful and widely used is because it seeks to provide a door-to-door service. The French claim that no location in Paris is moer than 0.6 kms from a PT point !!
Having said that, there are 2 ways that the system has been made user friendly.
Non Technological: Quick Wins
1) Every Area (aka a colony) has a number of large area maps put up at important street corners that highlight the streets, bus stops, metro stops with bus #s etc
2) Every bus stop is equipped with the following displays:
- Route map of each bus that stops there
- Bus Timings at that stop
- Immediate surrounding of the bus-stop (~ 0.5 kms radius)
Technology Enabled
1) Bus stops have LED displays with very accurate systems (ably supported of course by their bus lanes)
2) User friendly web site that combines trip planning across buses, metro and Commuter rail: not just by stops or areas but also by precise address
3) Access to trip planning, timing etc.. through simple SMSs (send start point, end point to a number and it will send back the next 3 quickest trips)
honestly God Bless ss87 for his efforts...
But in the 'IT' country and more so the city heralded as the next Silicon Valley, we should truly be thinking about enabling technology to help us get there....
benevolent BMTC
@amitc
The difference between Paris' services and BMTC is that whereas in Paris you'll have to have changed (one route to another, or one mode to another) atleast once before reaching a point within the walking distance of 600M from your home, the BMTC tries to do it without the change, and ends up with its near 3000 routes, but with most of them with poor frequencies - some of them with just one run a day.
I don't think Paris, London, New York, all put together will have as many routes as the 'benevolent' BMTC has. Well, they are supposed to be the country's best - that's what today's headlines tell us. Nobody dare challenge them!
Route info /timings important
Though I personally wish that the city had far fewer routes than the 2500-odd (& still growing) that BMTC now has, I don't see it as a problem if (1) one can save time with fewer transfers & get direct connectivity; & (2) if there is access to information about routes & timings.
Item (2) had been sorely lacking, but it seems that BMTC is beginning to address it, at least from updates on their web page, though much more needs to be done.
Since the vast majority of users do not have access to internet, route/timing information needs to be publicised in all other possible ways too, such as posters at all bus stops & bus terminuses, complete weekly listing with daily updates in newspapers, timetables for a price, SMS facility for enquiry of bus information, telephone helplines, etc.
From what I understand, the route system has evolved in such a complex manner primarily because people demand direct connectivity from their own areas or wards, & frequency is of secondary importance to them. However, the new upwardly mobile classes that are filling up the city need air-conditioning & better quality services that are more frequent.
Thus, whilst trying to meet all demands, the route system appears to have become a casualty & the numbers have kept increasing. This will need to be addressed at some stage soon.
A solution is perhaps to split up the city into some 9 zones & entirely revamp the numbering based on zones. Buses from city center/s to zone-1 (say, Jayanagar, JP Nagar /BTM & further) will have all buses commencing with 1, zone-2 (say, Rajajinagar, Basaveshswarnagar & further) with 2, etc. Thus, a typical route number for Jayanagar zone would be 1-xxx, where xxx denotes the actual route number.
For ring services, the numbering could be R-xxx. For buses that are inter-zonal, the numbers could be Z-xxx, & for shuttles, they could be S-xxx. Similarly, grid services could start with G & big-10s with B.
Bus Numbering
The bus numbering is a key point and the kind of zoning you have proposed could be a good solution.
This will be particualry helpful given a lot of the buses probably run within their zones.
The zoning can be used at broader level for all public transport...(one of the off shoots of course being around bus-numbering).
If this nature of zoning can be implemented, then I suspect, it will also vastly benefit a lot of the other initiatives. For example
- Bus feeder services that is being discussed
- Bus allotments: run the larger, buses across zones while the shorter distances could also include more frequent but smaller feeder buses (of course depending on demand levels)
- If we do move to privatisation of some of the bus systems, etc, the zoning can be logical areas for contracting out.
Varthur Kodi to Mahadevpura?
I thought there was a 504F or similar (which I took a few times to go to Bimal Maruti on ITPL road @ Mahadevapura? Any other routes? Whitefield shuttles (WFS) miss that part of Whitefield suburban area altogether.
Other question. Varthur Kodi to Iskon Temple? I only know 333Z, or go there via one change at Majestic.
HC wants BMTC to optimise routes
For 10 years, the transport corporation has dithered over a retired HAL employee’s idea of cutting down bus routes and bringing down fares. The court has stepped in to make his proposal heard
Seventy-nine year-old N Parameshwaran has been trying to make life easier for the BMTC with a new route plan since the last 10 years but they don’t seem to be interested.
But the retired HAL accounts manager is hoping that Monday’s HC order will change all that. A division bench headed by Chief Justice Jagadish Singh Khehar gave Bangalore Metropolitan Transport Corporation (BMTC) four weeks to constitute a committee and invite Parameshwaran to explain his idea. The BMTC will have to explain its stand to the HC after that.
"I travel by bus and see new buses to new routes introduced every other day. This results in a haphazard increase in routes” he says.
Click here for full article in Bangalore Mirror
BMTC Routes
When the BMTC Commuter Comfort Task Force was active (with Mr. Muralidhar as Co-chairman and myself a member), Mr Parameswaran was also a member and had given his proposal. After much discussions (for months) the Grid system was found superior and was recommended to the BMTC.
It was only partially implemented, half-heartedly.
K.V.Pathy
@ silk board No proper route
@ silk board
No proper route exists between Varthoor kodi and ITPL road as mentioned-the ebst option is to change over at Kundalahalli gate
333Z is quite an infrequent route. Also buses to Isckon are quite unpopular. Best option will be to go to majestic and take a 80 series bus (80A,G,H,etc) to west of chord road. Or 82 , 82A , 82C will take you to Karnataka soaps and detergents.
thanks, and ...
Hmm. I have seen some 502 (forget the number) and another 504 (F?) turning from Varthur road towards Brookfields a few times. The better route actually is to take a 318/319 to hope farm, and then any Big10/333/WFS to come to Varthur Kodi. This is what I did just last week.
333Z route is fine with only commute time runs. A direct route would be an overkill and too much to expect, one change at Majestic as hub is just fine.
People don't like to change buses, that's why the frequent asks for direct routes.
scope for a Doctoral study
Between ss87 and SB, I think they qualify to do a doctoral research on BMTC route numberning :))).
I remember the times when a Central Excise inspector introduced me to another claiming he was an expert on 'textiles'. When I probed to check if he was a textiles engineer, it turned out that he was just a basic graduate, who, after joining the department, had bothered to go into the details of excise tariff classifications based on venier counts for textiles, and therewith had become a 'consultant' to the industry (particularly in the SSI sector), extorting money from them using his 'knowledge'. Those were the times when there were classifications into tens of thousands (as compared to some four or five now), with tariff slabs ranging from 0 to even some 60%, and each Central budget announcement was followed closely by the industry to figure out as to which slab their product/ s have been shifted out to, whether according to some logic or not.
Times have changed since then. But, perhaps BMTC still believes in offering scope for deep studies - productivity concerns etc be damned!
When I probed to check if he
When I probed to check if he was a textiles engineer, it turned out that he was just a basic graduate
So is there a bus numbering PHD on offer at any university?
weekly radio program?
Sidharth - till BMTC website or Bheema's google transit project get completed, how about doing a weekly radio program to answer BMTC route questions? Can spice it up by taking in greivances as well. What say? Does anyone think a city radio station will buy the concept? If not weekly, could be a once a month program, one day before the bus day.
IDS, forget route numbering, how many colleges in India actually teach transportation or public systems design? And who all are offering jobs to graduates in these subjects?
May be we should raise money to actually setup a University in public systems and sustainable development. Praja University, somewhere near Chikmagalur. Seriously :)
Bommanahalli/HSR to Jalahalli Cross
Hi,
I need to travel from Bommanahalli/HSR 2nd Sector/Parangi Palya/BDA complex to Jalahalli Cross - reach office at 10AM and leave office at 5:15-5:30. I have seen some buses like - Wipro Gate,ECity to Peenya 2nd Stage -Big Blue . Please let me know what are the timings for this bus . I do not want to change the buses.
As of now i use - BAIL bus to reach Mekhri Circle then take a normal bus towards Jalahalli. but these are not very frequent buses so I am looking at an alternative atleast for the evenings.
I have aclled the call centre : The information provided was not very clear. Please help.
Thanks,
Naveen
From Bommanhalli 410 is a
From Bommanhalli 410 is a direct bus available to Jalahalli cross and has quite a good frequency of about a bus ever 15 minutes once. The bus starts from Bommanhalli itself and though the route may be a bit longer(Banashankari-Vijayanagar-Sunkadgatte) it is quite fast(Except the Banashankari surroundings)-The bus has a good frequency till 7PM from Jalahalli cross. A bus at around 8:15AM can be a good option.
B-2(Big-10-2) is also a direct bus starting at E.City-there are about 6 buses running and suppossed to maintain a interval of 30 minutes between buses. But the timings is not very well known-board only if you spot the bus.
You may consider this option too:
Take Marcopolo 362B or 362C or ordinary 346P,356G,360G etc to Shivajinagar and take 252A or G-8 from there-the fastest route that you can get is taking G-2 to Brigade road-141 series to Shivajinagar-G8,252A or 258N from there. Return: G8 or 252A to Indian express-141 series to Lifestyle-walk down to Brigade road and take G-2(Thats the boring point but anyway route is a bit faster)
OR
Take 356C,360B Volvo to majestic and taking any bus between 250 and 265 from there to Jalahalli cross(258C has Volvo so you can travel entire strech in volvo)
PS: Please avoid last seats if you are taking 410. The route after Sunkadgatte(Hegganhalli) is horrible to the core.
Thanks for the information, I
Thanks for the information,
I have tried 410 and getting down at Mekhri Circle is better than detouring the whole city :-) i reach home at 8-8:15 using both routes. I need to check on the other routes. I wish 410 is made to take the Nyandahalli Flyover Ring Road.
Query
@ss87
How do I go from Majestic Bus Station to Mysore Bank (other than by walk/auto) ?
K.V.Pathy
@pathykv Majestic to Mysore
@pathykv
Majestic to Mysore bank is a complete one-way and hence walking is the only option available to reach faster. Buses travel via Maharani College and KR circle-so if you want to travel by bus you have to get down at Maharani's college and walk down for which you may walk from majestic itself,.
Query
@ss87
Please let me know bus connection from HAL II/III Stage to IISc.
K.V.Pathy
From HAL 2nd stage 137A is
From HAL 2nd stage 137A is direct bus available but not frequent. From Indiranagar 100ft road K-1 is quite frequent and a direct bus to IISC. Or better take 139 to shivajinagar and take 94,94E,100C, K-1,G-8,B-2 or any bus between 250 and 276(252A,258N,270,270A,270H) being some of the frequent buses
Thanks Sir
I was able to board a bus at 5:30 yesterday and it was indeed a comfortable ride and i reached home 45mins sooner. That was a releif.
I would like to give some suggestions to BMTC. how do we do tht?
You can send a mail to
You can send a mail to bmtc@transactglobal.com. One of my friends have reported that they have called 1800-425-1663 a week after sending mail and upon asking mail Id the operator reads out the mail completely (To confirm th eimportant points) and says action will be taken for the same. and you do get a e-mail reply too on sending mails at times. He reported about a leaking bus once and the bus was seen covered with a good velded tar sheet in a week. So lets hope the best
ss87's Ask Me service
This is really great and I wonder how he keeps all the information at his finger tips.
Can you give any contact of BMTC where we can get such info without troubling you?
You may also train the BMTC Call Centre staff to give correct info.
Thanks again.
K.V.Pathy
Thank you for feedback.
Thank you for feedback.
Actually as I had already given in one of my posts it is just analysis of the routes and important junctions the route on that particular route will touch.
In previuos query from Hal to IISC my answer was simple-take any bus between 250 and 276 leaving Shivajinagar-250 to 265 are Tumkur road buses and 266 to 276 are buses between Tumkur and Bellary road-only 2 roads exist between the 2 roads-Mathikere Road and NEW BEL Road. Buses from Shivajinagar dont run on New BEL road to BEL circle. So link both and gave u the answer-Simple.You may also refer to http://praja.in/en/blog/s... for the gist
Mr. Narasimhadatta at http://www.narasimhadatta... has done an excellent job in his website-he has also mentioned the frequency of buses as "Very frequent, frequent, average,rare etc". i also keep updating him regarding the routes. You can also visit the same for getting a good route. you can contact him on facebook too
MG Road to Langford Town
I really appreciate your service. Its so nice of you to provide this service. I need to daily commute from MG Road to Berlie Street, Langford Town. Can you please let me know bus route information from MG Road (Trinity Circle or Electric Station) to Nanjappa Circle (Langford Road) or Langford Road-Hosur Road junction? I need to know both to and fro. I came to know reg bus 164 from BMTC site, but not sure about its route. Thanks a lot.
G-2 and G-3 routes interchanged?
Whereas the BMTC website shows that G-3 goes to Sarjapur (from near Mayo Hall), nowadays, I am noticing G-2 buses on the route. And, a G-3 bus that my daughter had taken yesterday was following the route indicated for G-2 on the site, ie between St Patrick's complex and Electronics City.
There is a bit of a logic to it, in the sense it that it now follows serially in the clockwise direction from G-1, which was not the case earlier. But then, shouldn't the BMTC keep the public informed?
Again, that's asking a bit too much from BMTC, right?
Even I observed the same last week
I travelled from koramangala to Sarjapura signal and was waiting for G3, but then G2 came and was going to sarjapura, I boarded.
Yes, BMTC keeping informed public will be too much, ideally they would have posted some posters on the G2 and G3 itself so that public are informed of the same, but BMTC and its own style of in-efficient working, they do all their best to repel customers, and inturn trying to be a good source of public transport.
Deepak
I have been seeing G2 on
I have been seeing G2 on Sarjapura Road for few days now. And I dont see G3's there these days..
I guess G2 and G3 would have changed the route numbers..
@Anitha Sunil Yes-got the
@Anitha Sunil
Yes-got the news just 2 days back-G2 and G3 have been interchanged for reasons unknown-G3 now runs on Hosur road in erstwhile G2 route
@Geethika Gupta
164 doesnt run via Mayo hall ever since metro construction started-it runs via M\Mallya road and Nanjappa circle
ITC Colony (Maruthi Seva Nagar) to Koramangala (near to 6th Blk)
Could you please help me with a good route from ITC Colony to Koramangala (forum is 1.2km, bus depot is 750m & BDA complex is 1.3km, so I can go to either of the 3 sides)? I took a 302E from ITC to Shivajinagar & then I think the 362 or 364 to forum. There is a site narasimhadatta.com that suggests taking one of a number of buses from ITC to Coles Park & then the K1 to Sont World signal. Is this a better option than the one I took? Anyone else has experience using the above mentioned site, is it accurate? Thanks for any suggestions.
ITC Colony to Koramangala (Sony World/BDA/Depot/Forum)
Could you please suggest me a route? Thanks for your suggestions.
@dj24 the route you took is
@dj24
the route you took is beter compared to the route mentioned because K1 doesnt run via coles park but via Indian Express-I will ask Mr. narasimha to correct the same
You can take of the buses bound to market/majestic/shivajinagar and get down at Indian express and cross the road from where B-3, 356G,360G,362,362B,362C,362E,346P will take you to Forum-141K, 164 and 166 will take you to bus depot (Koramangla) and 164 does have a good frequency though a bit round about via vittalmallya road and shantinagar najappa circle to Adugodi-return you will have to change the bus at shivajinagar only
Thanks
Thanks a lot ss87, that is very helpful information.
VAYU Vajra information
1) Where specifically in Hebbal do the Vayu vajra buses stop? I am looking for a specific location (street name + landmark).
2) Do they just stop on the roadside OR is there a sheltered bus stand with a walkable footpath?
3) How easy is it to find an autorickshaw once i alight from the bus at the stop? I can't walk more than a few steps since I will have luggage.
@blrpraj - site not quite
@blrpraj - site not quite active now - hoping to revive it soon