Vajra/Volvos doing well

BMTC claim that Vajras are now running full at peak hours. This is only due to increase in demand which is not met by proportionate increase in ordinary bus services.  Hapless Commuters are forced to use Vajra buses as they cannot get into ordinary buses which burst at the seams. At the platforms of Majestic bus station always number of Vajra buses can be seen waiting for commuters and commuters waiting for ordinary buses which are not enough to meet the demand, esp. at peak hours. The fate of commuters waiting at intermediate bus stops can be imagined. Such commuters have no option but to get into Vajra buses paying more than what they can afford.

It is high time that BMTC should be bifurcated for Vajra services and ordinary services so that each can focus on the respective demands. Also a third agency should be formed for exclusively operating MINIBUSES for Intra-Nagar and last mile feeder services.

K.V.Pathy

Mangalore too had lot of private operators competing with each others. KSRTC's introduction of Volvos have shifted them to Volvos. Mangalore being humid, A/C buses with excellent pickup which private ordinary leyland/tata buses cannot reach has been the  Mantra for KSRTC.

Mysore too is seeing excellent Volvo usage with introduction of Volvos between Mysore-Nanjangud, Mysore - Srirangapatna, Mysore - Mandya, Mysore - KRS and Mysore - Chamundi Hills apart from other residential areas also being connected by Volvos. There are no private operators though in Mysore.

In Bangalore alone, we see so many private buses running between Banashankari to ITPL and Banashankari to Attibele. But, officials such as IT folks never take them up. Their swanky horns and the rude and uneducated drivers and conductors will never be attractive.

It may work out only when Grand Private operator like Kingfisher or Reliance enters into City Bus Operations with Grand City Buses. Opportunity exists in connecting Non-stop from key areas to IT areas with luxury buses to attract car users.No private operator is willing to take up this I believe.

@Naveen
Are there any organized private sector bus players in the country in intra-city operations?

Before the telecom and civil aviation sectors opened up, none of the present players even existed. Today, in some 10/ 15 years, many are world leaders, contributing in addition to the near double-digit growth of the country's economy.

What standards have they set so far ? Bus privatization has resulted in pedestrians getting killed routinely in Delhi. Road safety standards are poor in Mangalore & Kochi because these buses race one another to capture passengers & for more business, they cancel or terminate trips midway whenever they do not have sufficient passengers, they do not maintain any time table & services are purely subject to availability of passengers, etc.

We have gone through all of these before - here's one such thread. Besides, the government has sloped the playing field in every possible way against the private players - check this, which is also why the big names have kept out. Like I have repeatedly stated before, public bus transport services is too vital an infrastructure sector to remain a monopoly, particularly of government players. It desperately needs the managerial and financial capabilities of organised sector players, and their entry needs to be pro-actively facilitated. And, that can make for even faster economic growth, with the aam aadmi becoming more productive and consequently a first-hand beneficiary.

Those that are passionate about the need for privatization & for organized bus companies need to work out strategies & suggest ways to get some out of the vast pool of low grade run-of-the-mill operators to reform - one such suggestion is here. Private buses certainly cannot be let loose on the streets without all the necessary safeguards & only after incentives have been placed with sufficient checks & balances to result in getting the best for commuters.

But, when the government refuses to even review its monopoly policy, where does one start?

most people agree with this view....predominantly Socialistic mindset of the poeple. This again appears to be merely wishful thinking. Is there a poll with sufficient sample size in numbers to substantiate & justify this statement ?

Whatever, I can't see how else any one can support monopolies in today's world, and that too of government players.


@ss87
I completely agree with neveen-i met a person from kochi and as we were talking about the services said that private players had turned to be killers-not only for people outside the bus but also people inside the bus.

The Kochi scene I should know pretty well - check this

Kerala govt acquired about 100 JNNURM buses for Kochi and now the rush has simply shifted to them from the private players-so definitely privat eplayers arent solving the problem.

The Kerala SRTC has never claimed to be running on profits, unlike the BMTC. The state continues to remain steeped in Socialism, and offers services below cost in all sectors, which culture has ended up with all of them remaining mediocre at best, and ideal hunting grounds for buccaneers, cloaked in Marxist garb. So, extending the below cost services to the upper classes is in the same spirit.

But, I doubt if you can appreciate all that, since perhaps you subscribe more to this philosophy


@Vasanth
In Bangalore alone, we see so many private buses running between Banashankari to ITPL and Banashankari to Attibele. But, officials such as IT folks never take them up. Their swanky horns and the rude and uneducated drivers and conductors will never be attractive.

It may work out only when Grand Private operator like Kingfisher or Reliance enters into City Bus Operations with Grand City Buses. Opportunity exists in connecting Non-stop from key areas to IT areas with luxury buses to attract car users.No private operator is willing to take up this I believe.

Yes, these belong to the same class as those in Kochi, and the Blueline of Delhi. Apart from that are the other challenges they face - check this. Mangalore players are a grade higher. But, the facilitation of entry of big players will eliminate the riff-raff, and the Mangalore lot will upgrade their services to become the efficient janata class, like say Go-Air, Indigo, Spicejet, etc, while the Mallya's and Ambani's can provide the equivalent of Kingfisher and Jet services.

And, your last post quite clearly brings out the short-comings in the present services.
 

We are going round and round (as they say in Tamil, grinding the same batter repeatedly)!.

What is required is affordable and adequate bus service mainly for the lower class majority commuters(without prejudice to the upper class). This should be able to take the commuter nearest ( say within 500 meters) to where he/she wants to go, not as at present, commuter having no option but to go wherever the bus takes him as per their (the transporter's) own schedule.

Like in other sectors, parallel operation should be tried out allowing private sector to choose the routes wherever not covered by Public sector routes, esp. the last mile/KM.

Of course regulations about safety, fares etc. should be worked out, but within reasonable timeframe.

K.V.Pathy

The kind of operators in Kochi & Mangalore are unsafe & worse than BMTC

We have gone through this also before. I have not agreed with, and continue to do so.

Many Committees/ Task Forces recommendations, campaigns by various organisations (including PRAJA) have certainly had some impact on BMTC's working. But, There's far far way to go if it has to meet the city's burgeoning needs. And unlike in the case of telecom, the shift to usage of the services has to come largely from the current car/ two-wheeler users, if we have to find solutions to our traffic problems. And, these people value time greatly, apart from other things. A public sector monopoly can certainly not be expected to meet the challenge. The big time private players have to be facilitated entry, of course with proper regulation in place. Keep hammering that, and the rest will follow. Well, that's what I believe. And, with properly facilitated and regulated competition, the prices will remain in check, benefitting even the aam aadmi.

And, as for BMTC providing last mile connectivity - their 'experts' have some fixed notions about viability of operations, and all they are interested is in proving it. And, that's what they did, and very 'effectively' too, in the case of 'Koramangala shuttle', which they declared unviable and withdrew within a few weeks of commencement. It was started at my instance. So, Mr Pathy and you need not waste your time and energy on that any more.

And, when I ask for license to operate the service, the government says no - check this - talk of the dog in the manger.

@Naveen,

I just give two locations where there are no BMTC access within 500 m.

1. Cambridge layout

2. Domlur layout.

There are hundreds of such areas. These can be served only by Minibuses. As BMTC is not interested, Govt. should deploy private operators for such a service.

Regarding BMTC schedules, the less said the better as we do not find any working schedules. Commuters have to take it or leave it and have no choice.

K.V.Pathy

Privatization, if to be done for large Indian cities, must depart from the conventional methods that you prescribe

Conventional approach is what has been attempted all these years, ie asking the BMTC to improve. I wonder where we would have been if likewise we had been asking BSNL and Indian Airlines (or their then avatars) to improve 10 to 20 years back. Well, if people want to remain apologists for monopoly government operators, I guess it's their privilege.
 

@Murali,

As you had pointed out privatization has really worked wonders in sectors such as airlines and telecommunications . I have been wondering why privatization has worked in these fields and why the common man doesn’t face the evils of corruption and general chaos when dealing with them. One reason I can think of, is that the players are generally large companies who have a reputation to guard. We usually don’t have fly by night operators out to make a quick buck in these sectors.

I guess in the case of city bus services also, if we put some restrictions which will allow only large companies with a minimum fleet size of at least a couple of hundred buses to operate, privatization may not create any additional chaos and might even work in cases such as luxury services. However I am still concerned about their financial viability for general services.

@skumars (any connection with the saree brand? :))) )

Well, with you there can certainly be meanigful dialogue. And, here it goes:

Even BMTC is able to sustain itself only through direct subsidies it receives in various forms and indirect forms of subsides such availability of cheap land that it can commercialize

And, this is what they do with the land! They are just blowing up INNURM money, and, in addition, cluttering up the city landscape with horrendous edifices. And, ultimately, we the citizens will have to pay for it all, and in various ways!

The fact of the matter also is that if the actual cost of say the BIAL (including the actual market cost of the airport land and the land acquired for widening the road to it) is passed on to the air travellers, then the low-cost services will have to close down, and likewise with other services. So, the state plays the role of providing the infrastructure (preferably through PPP's and SPV's), facilitating the provision of the needed services by different players at affordable costs.

The state has the power to facilitate growth of, or even crush, any sector just by manipulating policy. For all the good that players like Airtel, Vodafone, etc have done for the growth of the economy, today they are all in deep trouble because of policies like this.

So, if you believe that things need to change, you need to ask for it, and if you ask loud enough, the state will take note, like what the S M Krishna government once did - check this. The biggest obstacle are the status-quoists, who just harp on the same old arguments, even as they talk of 'un-conventional' approaches.

or the freedom to paint its buses completely with advertisements

And, break the laws of the land!? - check this

If private players are allowed in this sector how do we provide them these subsidies in a equitable manner so that they can also fulfill some social obligations?

The inequitous treatment meted out to private players have already been listed here. The government can do many things to facilitate their providing an efficient, safe and cost effective service. To begin with, they could atleast be provided with a level playing field.

With the current state of governance in India and rampant corruption, I am not convinced that this is the right time to bring in private operators for city bus service, or doing that will solve our problems.

Even after many years of the telecom sector being opened out, we have had the biggest of scams there through the machinations of the minister Mr Raja. In spite of it the show goes on, and, with the Supreme Court taking note, hopefully, the perpetrators will be brought to book, and the damage contained. So, it has nothing to do with corruption.

I guess in the case of city bus services also, if we put some restrictions which will allow only large companies with a minimum fleet size of at least a couple of hundred buses to operate, privatization may not create any additional chaos and might even work in cases such as luxury services

Refreshing to know that there are people who can think different, rather than the types just claiming to do so. And, that's exactly what I have said in my opening post on this thread, and subsequently too. And, different versions of it here and here. The important thing is to do away with the state monopoly, and then things will fall in place.

I think this is the same in all Indian cities since the road /traffic conditions do not allow schedules to be maintained. So, blaming BMTC for this seems out of place.

If the BMTC switched totally to direction oriented routing, like Big-10, Kendra Sarige, 500 series, etc, and deployed all their buses along these, as well as shuttle linkages to these, the frequencies during peak hours can be every three minutes or even better. In such a scenario, you don't need any time-tables. All you need to know are the timings of the first and last services. Besides, this will solve half the bussing problems in the city, the only hitch being that the commuters may have to change busses a few times more than presently. But, overall, the connectivity will become far better, and benefits thereof will be even more. Also, the number of routes will reduce drastically from the present 2000 odd to some two digit figure, ending a lot of the associated confusion too.

But, instead of furthering that, they appear to be stalling it (and, even adding to the 2000 odd routes), based on their fixed notions of commuter preferences, and, in the process, trying to serve each commuter door to door, but ending up satisfying no one.

Of course, the above proposal would require properly locationed and designed change-points across the city. The JNNURM funds could have been put good use had they been deployed that way. But, again, the BMTC and its political masters have other ideas, and end up putting up the TTMC's to serve all purposes other than those of the commuter.

a city bus service needs subsidies and even with a level playing field, a private player cannot survive without subsidies.

The Mangalore and Kochi operators have carried on for decades together even with the playing field steeply sloped against them (TVS had to pull out with wholesale nationalisation in Tamilnadu). And, all through, they have provided an efficient, reliable and affordable service, far better than the BMTC, the only common factor perhaps being the almost par score in matters of safety. Any unbiased observer of the scene will tell you. This is also substantiated by the findings in the study cited here. And, if given a level playing field, as also facilitated through proper policy initiatives, they can very easily meet the challenges of providing affordable services more than adequately. And, with the inevitable ushering in of congestion pricing, high parking fees, etc, in the cities, the TVS's, TATA's and even Kingfisher's will get drawn into providing the high-end services.

So, you don't have to look far for solutions. All you have to accept is that government service providers, like BMTC, even with their monopoly status, apart from having the playing field sloped steeply in their favour, can at best provide a mediocre service. And, that's not enough for today's world.

After the opening up, sectors like telecom, civil aviation, banking, insurance, etc are flourishing and taking the economy forward by leaps and bounds. But, with key infrastructure sectors like public transport, power distribution, water supply, etc remaining shackled in the vice-like grips of the government, they are proving to be the proverbial millstones around the neck of the economy. It is nobody's case that you can go about privatising these in a reckless fashion - you couldn't do that even with hotels. But, you can't wait for 'times to change' before you start asking the government to stick to its job of governing, and facilitating and regulating proper service provision, and doing a proper job of it, rather continuing as a dog in the manger.

the licensing itself may be handled by the regional RTOs

But, of course, that has to change. When a policy decision is taken, naturally, all these have to be part of it, unless all you are looking for is an eye-wash.

BMTC being a public sector undertaking, we should cut them some slack with respect to the rules (unless of course if it is going to impact safety) since their primary purpose is to serve the public and not enrich any shareholders.

So, you are advocating further sloping of the field for the benefit of the public sector. I thought the days of the public sector being viewed as commanding the heights of the economy are long over. Excepting a few rare exceptions, most have become plain burdens. BMTC too, the way it's being managed today, is headed the same way. Besides, here it's a safety issue. You can't have different norms for different players, whether public sector or private.  

And, as to the question of BMTC meeting the social needs, I suppose Mr Pathy has answered adequately.
 

 @Murali,

I agree with many of your points, but I am not sure about the quality of the private city bus services in other cities. From what I have seen about these services, my observation is that:

1. They generally have less experienced drivers as compared to public sector enterprises
2. They tend to race with each other to grab passengers
3. They tend to overcrowd the buses; (but again I have seen BMTC Volvo buses also getting overcrowd, so it may be related to the incentives that the staff gets to fill up the buses and not just a private sector issue)

These are just my personal observation and I don’t have any studies to back it up.

I should also mention the BMTC Volvo services since we are on the topic of subsidies and this is a thread about the Volvo services.  Some people may argue that the Volvo service has been possible only through subsidies from JNNURM and other subsidies and I wouldn’t deny it. However it is indisputable that it is helping to a large extent in reducing the congestion in the IT corridors and from that perspective serves the common good. I think the Volvo service would not have been possible in the absence of a public sector organization like BMTC. The private sector is not usually bold enough to take up such initiatives because they need to worry about short term returns.

Finally I agree that once we create regulations to ensure that the private services can be operated safely and efficiently, and not create any more chaos in the streets or induce more corruption, we can allow them alongside the public sector services.

I agree with Naveen that a beginning has to be made. But not by BMTC, but by the Govt., outside BMTC.

There is no use having all apprehensions and post-poning indefinitely. I have seen in the neibouring State Public and private operators running side by side and compete in a healthy fashion

The need for constituting a regulatory body is a given. Nobody need re-discover that. Also, as to what kind of models we can have, there have been enough discussions already. But, without the government first accepting to open up the sector, all this talk is just a lot of hot air. And, very correctly as Mr Pathy has pointed out, it's the government that has to effect the requisite policy changes. And, since they refuse to do it on their own, they have to be forced into it - demand, campaign, e-petition, PIL, etc, etc.

since you seem to have some last mile problems for your home /office.

It's not just Mr Pathy's problem. My servant maid, my daughter (commuting between college and home), all have been talking about the same problem. And, it can very easily met, and profitably too, by efficient bus operations. All that the government needs to do is to create the right environment.

 

@skumars

However it is indisputable that it is helping to a large extent in reducing the congestion in the IT corridors and from that perspective serves the common good.

The upside of course is that to that extent the clutter caused by the exec's car/ bike is reduced - that's what I had already stated here

I think the Volvo service would not have been possible in the absence of a public sector organization like BMTC. The private sector is not usually bold enough to take up such initiatives because they need to worry about short term returns.

Which world are you living in, Sir? Today, on the contrary, Indian companies are buying over companies across the world, turning them around, and reaping profits.

Other points, I think, I have addressed adequately, already, elsewhere

skumaras>>>> I think the Volvo service would not have been possible in the absence of a public sector organization like BMTC. The private sector is not usually bold enough to take up such initiatives because they need to worry about short term returns.

murali>>>>Which world are you living in, Sir? Today, on the contrary, Indian companies are buying over companies across the world, turning them around, and reaping profits

Perhaps I should have been clearer when I made my earlier comment that the Volvo service would not have happened in the absence of BMTC. The Volvo service happened only because the JNNURM under the Ministry of Urban Development decided to do something about improving the traffic conditions in cities and provided substantial grants to undertakings like BMTC to purchase low floor buses. My understanding is that JNNURM funded about 85% of the cost of these buses costing about Rs 80 Lakhs each. Do you think some private sector operator would plunk in that sort of money with the hope that they could get the “execs” off their cars and bikes into the city buses just so that the traffic conditions and the air quality in the cities would improve?

There are a few examples of Indian companies having turned around other companies around the world, but those are in sectors where profits are there to be made and there are no social obligations to be fulfilled.

We have a fundamental disconnect. You believe that there are profits to be made from city bus services and that private operators would rush in if only the sector were open to them. I believe (based on my observations of city bus operations in India and also a couple of cities in Europe and the USA – the land of the capitalists) that city bus services cannot succeed without subsidies from the government. That is if they are required to provide a reasonable level of quality and not load people like cattle in a truck. As long as both of us cling to our beliefs we will go back and forth with the same arguments.

I am going by Murali's words, haven't seen data/stat evidence from him yet

hello, what about this? And, suggest you (and other fence-sitters, as also the BMTC apologists/ fans) read the blog and the report through and through

It (BMTC) can itself become the regulator

"and the proposal that STUs act as both operator and regulator presents serious issues of conflict of interest and moral hazard" - from the same report, linked above

A least in areas that BMTC itself considers to be non-viable, like sub-urban or local area shuttles, or the airport buses, it is worth to try the experiement.

So, just get off the fence, and take up the campaign for opening up of the sector. Leave the BMTC apologists/ fans be.
 

>>> The inter city operators did that, isn't it, and they did so before KSRTC, right?.

That’s not an Apples to Apples comparison. The intercity operators run the Volvos only in high density routes where they are assured of good patronage even when they charge almost double their regular charges for the Volvo services. When I mentioned the BMTC Volvo services, I was specifically referring to city bus services where the economics are quite different.

>>>And even if a subsidy is required to make city bus operator viable, why not give this subsidy to a few private operators instead?

If the private operators operate using money provided by the government, will they have the required motivation to work efficiently? How do we ensure that the subsidies provided by the government do not end up in the pockets of the private owners?

I do agree with the rest of your post about the need to have a strong regulator. 

>>>>So, just get off the fence, and take up the campaign for opening up of the sector. Leave the BMTC apologists/ fans be.

I think you may have mistaken my position with respect to BMTC. I am not a fan of BMTC, and have posted several comments in the past in praja which are very critical of the way they operate. My comments in this thread were primarily about the suitability of the public sector vs private sector for city bus operations. It was not about one particular corporation.

I am a strong supporter of the private sector (I work in the private sector). I believe that during the past one decade it has played a pivotal role in the development of India. I just have my some reservations about whether the private sector can succeed in providing a service of high quality in the city bus sector, while still being profitable. My reservations are primarily after seeing how the private sector now operates in the city bus sector in a chaotic manner and how the authorities are unable or unwilling to do anything control them.

I have seen private mini-buses being operating in Bangalore on Hosur road and on Whitefield road. Many buses are in a poor condition and I wonder how they manage to get their fitness certificate. They are uncomfortable and stuffed with people and but they still are able to get passengers because they can undercut the BMTC in ticket prices. The private sector is able to achieve this because their costs are lower, and this is not necessarily because they are more efficient. The costs are lower because:

1. They can use run down buses which shouldn’t even be allowed on the roads
2. They can overload the vehicles beyond allowed capacity
3. They can pay their drivers a pittance with no benefits, insurance, provident fund etc.

And alas there are lots of people in India who don’t care much about safety or comfort if they can save a few bucks. If a poorly maintained bus crashes because the brakes fail, they will just shrug it off and continue with their lives.

One can always argue that we can bring in proper regulation to control the private bus operators, but our record in effecting systemic changes to the system don’t make me very optimistic that we can pull it off. Let’s take the example of another sector like the auto rickshaw service. There have been so many discussions about the ills plaguing this sector, about the drivers not willing to take passengers to the desired destination, of over charging, of poor driving practices. But little has been achieved with respect to correcting any of this. Why do we feel that we can get drastically different results in the city bus sector

Anyway as I had clarified earlier I am all for opening up this sector once the proper regulations are in please. All I wish is that we  don't end up creating more chaos on our roads while attempting to fix the current problems.

You said:

So, just get off the fence, and take up the campaign for opening up of the sector. Leave the BMTC apologists/ fans be.

So who is running a campaign? What and where exactly do I have to join? By taunting myself and others as BMTC fans or apologists (which is a failry strong word), don't think you are wooing people towards a campaign that I know you would certainly start some day :)

Paint a picture, start a proposal, kick off a campaign, and people may join. If you are starting by writing

• a report on "scope and role for regulator in public transport sector", or
• a report on "City public transport can be a viable business, case study of Kochi/Mangalore",

.... you'd have good launch points. I am sure you have enough data for the reports (towards a business case), and more anecdotes than yelli idira.

Time to get deeper into this stuff.

Dear Pranav,

"I invite you one evening to stand at Kundalahalli gate. Watch ordinary 333E, or 500F at about 7 PM. And compare then to 500C/K or 333P. You will be surprised".

Thank you for your invitation. However I cannot go there at that time just to see these buses. You may describe (with photos, if possible), what you see.

I guess what you intend to convey is - the a/c buses are full, but not the ordinary buses. I will be surprised if it is so.

On the whole what I notice all over the city is that the over-all demand for PT is going up due to many reasons out-stripping the capacity of services of all types provided. Hence all are getting over-crowded. But the laws do not apply to the public sector as they are exempted.

Also the JNNURM funds (which is nothing but tax payers money) are being misused to construct Malls in the name of TTMCs , not at all serving any purpose for which these funds are meant. If the funds are utilised to augment ordinary bus service and start minibus service the traffic will improve much more. The luxury buses can be run by a separate corporation without subsidy from JNNURM and from ordinary bus earnings.

K.V.Pathy

Recently travelled on Delhi METRO to get travell experience  compared to Roads  at Capital of India.

Good thing was travell time compared to road was very less & Fares are reasonable.  Movement within the stations was not an issue.

Following things will tell you or BMTC Volvos are of no comparision to DELHI METRO :

1. On 6th Sept, when Travelled on METRO at 8:30 am,   Trains were running 150% of the design capacity. People are pushed into the Coaches, no place to stand inside. Driver of the Train came to PUSH the Passanger so that doors could close.  Passengers are just treated worst then  what we see BMTC.

2.  A/C effect was not at all felt,  complet sweating due to high humidity. 

3.  Only 10% of the people can sit (  few seats provide )

3. Their is no last mile connectivity at most of the stations, even though DMRC claims it has.

4. When it comes to crossing UP boarder at some places like Noida,  you need to walk   1 Kms  to get the Auto and their is no Taxis  to catch. Autos & DTC buses standing next to station will not be use as they can not enter UP state, so need to walk.

5. During Peak hrs 8Am to 10 Am, & same thing in the evening 5Pm to 8PM,  elders / ladies childerns can not travell and even small baggage can not be taken due to mad crowd.

End effect was Travelling by Taxi from Hotel to Business place  would have taken less time and more comfort with sitting and trying glance the emails or news paper.

When we talk about BMTC Volvo buses, I feel their service level is far far better compared to other places and other modes of Transport

@murali

But, when city and inter -city comparisons are made, then it's not apple to apple! 

The reason I didn't want to compare city and inter-city buses was because of concerns of viability. The city bus service providers need to run during off peak hours when there are only a few passengers. They also have to run the reverse commute schedule (or the return trip) when the bus will be practically empty. The long distance operators don't have this issue.

And the  reason I brought in a comparison to the city auto rickshaws  was that the enforcers for the autos and the future private buses are the same - the city traffic police. If they would just crack their whip I am sure some order could be brought into the auto sector, but they haven't been able to do so. If the authorities takes the same approach to the future private city bus operators, that they take with the auto rickshaws, we will have a difficult situation in hand.

The whole point of an online discussion forum is to argue for one's views isn't it :-)

But on a more  serious note, I will grant it that the private sector are doing a decent job with the inter-city operations. I am quite pleased with their services and I use their services regularly in preference to state RTCs and even the Indian railways. I will also agree that their safety record is quite decent and their buses are quite well maintained.

My issues are only with the illegal private short distance operators who operate shabby mini buses and Tata sumos, many of whom I see on the ORR and around Marathahalli.

Could you please go through this post that I had made earlier & revert with your comments on it's viability ? I had considered all the possible problems that you mentioned as also others whilst preparing it.

@Naveen,

I missed that thread though I normally follow most threads related to BMTC in Praja. It took me a while to go through all of the posts in that thread and digest the details. It appears that people have thoroughly debated all of the pros and cons of the various options and I really do not have much more to add. However since you had asked my comments, here goes...

Your idea of avoiding unwanted competition and the associated issues, by allowing only one operator in a sector has its merits. The idea of local shuttles looks like a good starting point. However one issue I can find is that the private sector works efficiently mostly when there is competition. In the absence of competition, they may become complacent after getting the license. We may need to have tough regulation and stiff penalties to ensure that they provide the services at the desired level of quality.

Also, I would have preferred an independent regulator rather than have BMTC as a regulator. If I look at parallels in other industries, that would be like having BSNL regulate the telecom sector, or Air India regulate the airline industry.

However since we need to humor BMTC to get things moving, one option is to split BMTC into two organizations, a high level planning organization which doesn't own or operate any buses, and another one which owns the buses and operates them. The first entity can be in charge of regulation and the second one can be one of the operators along with many other private sector operators.

@Skumars
However since we need to humor BMTC to get things moving

I think that's where I believe we have been going wrong. If they can't deliver, they can't continue as a monopoly.

And as for apples, they can be Kashmir, Himachal, or Australia. And, according to climatic and soil conditions, the taste can be different:))). Likewise with city bus services.

Also, since you certainly are making very valid contributions to the debate, perhaps the debate here should also interest you.
 

 When I 1st saw this message I thought this is most probably because of lack of the ordinary buses in the afternoon times when buses generally return to the depots and so people go by volvo-but I was proved wrong yesterday

At Mico layout bus stop as I was waiting for a Banashankari bus I just glanced over to opposite side-Volvo 500C was going towards ITPL having about 15-20 passengers-it was closely followed by a C-4(Kengeri to Kadugodi) ordinary service which also had only about 15 passengers-looks like people take volvo by choice and not by chance

As I got down at Jayanagar 5th block,on the opposite side was a 215BM volvo going to RBI layout again closely followed by a 215CA and  both buses having equal number of passengers-so it is people who are preferring volvo and arent being forced by BMTC to board volvo buses

The inter city operators did that, isn't it, and they did so before KSRTC, right?.

Intercity operators are profitable by manipulation and anticompetitive policies. They have actively tried to disrupt the development of railways. I have heard, and believe, the private operators did not want the Konkan railway. If the Konkan railway does not exist, Mangalore Mumbai route will be very profitable!! Again they have tried to manipulate the laws. Why are only luxury services running in the intercity services in the private sector? Because they have somehow, prevented the low-cost buses to run in that route. There is need to double and even quadruple the railway lines. That do not happen because of the private bus operators in my opinion. Would the private operators allowed creation of metro in Bangalore?

Private operators in other sectors have also shown inability or unwillingness to follow the laws of the land. Example could be illegal methods used to collect the loans. Private sector does not make profits by efficiency, they do so by stifling the competition also, so they can pass on their inefficiency to customers. There is no harm in not allowing private operators even arbitrarily because they have failed their mandate in many instances of privatization.

To the point

Intercity operators are profitable by manipulation and anticompetitive policies. They have actively tried to disrupt the development of railways.

The answer lies in asking for de-regulation of railways itself. One snail-paced closed public monopoly can't be the argument to defend another :) Private Bus operators aren't the reason for pathetically poor speeds and coverage of railways in Karnataka!