Commuter Rail - Will it ever materialize ?

My stop suggestions here

It is not tough to run suburban trains though the number of trains arriving/departing are more. An analysis reveals many trains arriving/departing between 5 and 7AM.After the departure of 6731 to MYsore and arrival of Rani chennamma and Tirupathy Fast pass there isnt much fo train traffic until Seshadri arrives at 12:30. Again after 2PM there is not much traffic present until departure of Kacheguda Express at 18:20 after which teh station fills to the brim. But in the mornign peak hour and evening peak hour many locals can be run. Some adjustments can be made in this regard.

2785/86 Kacheguda Express generally stops at PF-2 for whole day. This can be taken to the yard to relieve this platform.

An expansion of the last platforms to the binny mill land and accommodate trains that side.

Trains like 6525/26 Kanniyakumari come onto the platform by around 7PM for departure at 9:45PM. t can come around 9PM.

Karnataka Express is also put onto Pf-1 at around 5:45MP for around 7:20PM.

Load on Bangalore city tracks is not much considering the length of existing  track and direction of tracks running.   Its mis-managed by SWR and  not having right infrastucture  for the Banalore city railway tracks.

Take the case of Pune  Local Trains running upto Lonavala with double electrified Track. Same track is  used to for Mumbai Travel & its one of  busy section. 

Reason for Bangalore city  Tracks overloaded which is not correct & its  an execuse by  SWR  & others :

1. SWR has managed the Tracks  & electric lines in Bangalore city   to run trains for Bihar, WB & Chennai not for the Bangalore city. 

2. Why all trains need to originate from SBC to Chennai. They can start these Trains  from Kengeri ( as this station was developed & can have  FOUR Platforms )

3. Trains starting from SBC to Mysore can be started from Yelahanka via Yesvanthpur & SBC. For this why Railway minister has not bothered to develop Yelahanka Station with SIX platfroms.

4. For all your information, Tracks from Yesvanthpur to Lottegollahalli looks double,  SWR has ensured that  one track rund for Yelahanka & other track  runs for Hebbal / Banaswadi.  They should have created junction at Lottegollahalli which would have given  double / 4 lane track from Yesvanthpur.  Its 4 Kms.

5. Till this day by giving all execuses by SWR or State Govt or  Center, we have allowed to run all types of  Long distance trains during  6AM -10AM & evening 4PM to 8PM. Now stand is tracks are over loaded.

6. When all Major cities have 4 Tracks to their central  place with fully electrified,  its ensured that  we need to fight for Bangalore. on this Take the case of Yesvanthpur to Yelahanka,  Yesvanthpur to BaiyyappanahaliI,  KR Puram to Yelahanka, still tTrack doubling need to be done. 

7. From SBC  to Kengeri,  Whitefiled, Chikbanavar, Yelahanka Four Tracks need to be provided with electric line,  when will Railway minister sanctions  this ?????

8.  BaiyyappanahaliI, to Yesvanthpur, hardly few trains running, its not used much.

9. Now take the case of Yesvanthpur to  Nelamangala track which was ready more then a year, ( state has invested the money in this )  till this  day starting of trains  is not  talked.

With above  details,  CRS can be easily put into  SWR tracks. Their is no issue on this. Its matter of action not the disussion.

Ref  : Layout of tracks in Bangalore (as per map above) is somewhat complicated when compared with track layouts in other cities

Track length of Bangalore is higher then any other city & reaches to most of the places.s in Bangalore  except the Jayanagar & Banashankari. Infact its an advantage for CRS to start, if  any one has travelled in Mumbai Local Trains,  they have built  Railway             FLY-OVERS for Railway Track to Criss-Cross so that  direct connectivity from differnet directions exists.

Compared to other METROs,   Mumbai, Kolkotta & Chennai have dead end terminals where  Inter City Trains / Passanger Trains takes very high time for turnout, its  almost double time,  arrival trains to reach platform, then drive in reverse direction, then once gain when departure again they need to bring the Train to platform.  In case of  Bangalore, Hyderbad,  Pune, Hubli-Dharwad, Tracks runs in different  directions without any dead end.  Take the case of Pune,  their are hardly few trains which originate from Pune city,  most of the trains are crossing city only,  hence the track availabilty is very high in Pune,  so they ar able to run Local Trains & advantage is they have fully electrified length.

In case Bangalore, as sugested  above by Narayan,  SS87,   SWR need to start all Inter-City Trains from Suberbs & follwoing can be put in place easily with State & Railway  making  SPV & BEML can be included in SPV.  Bangalore city has more advantage then any other city to get Local Trains. With following alterations, CRS can start :

SWR to  start all inter-city trains as below :

1. From Kengeri to North bound Trains,  and towards Hubli

2. Yelahanaka Whitefield/ KR puram  for Mysore bound Trains,

3. Trains towards Bangarpet - Chennai & Hosur to start from Yeshwantpur

4. SWR meed to create more plaforms at  Kengeri, Yelahanaka,  Chikabanavar,     Lottegollahalli. Malleshwaram, KR Puram, Anekal & Whitefiled ( increase 2 more platforms )

5. Following Tracks can be  / need to be made four Lane :  Bangalore Central to Chikbanavar,   Yesvanthpur to  Yelahankai,  Bangalore Central to Kengeri. Bangalore Central to Cantonment,  KR Puram to Yelahanka

6. Local Trains can be stationed at Kengeri, Nelamanagala, Devanhalli, Anekal, Whitefiled for night halt.

7. As the Track in Bangalore Criss-Crosses, this is an advantage which will help  in better planning of Inter-city Trains &  Local Trains for CRS.

8. BEML can supply the Broad Guage CRS coaches  as per the design of  Delhi METRO which is based on Broad Guage.

9. Already  Binny Mill Land  handing over to Railways in progress, so the Bangalore Central will have more Platforms for Local Trains.

10. BAIYYAPPANAHALI station need to be developed on urgent basis without any further execuses. This will help in originating more Inter-City Trains.

With all this,  State will initiate or Center / SWR.

With Minister of State Railways  K H Muniyappa at Center,  he should bring State & Center / Railways and get the CRS for Bangalore without further delay 

SWR to  start all inter-city trains as below

I am not too sure we can create so many terminals, it may become a logistical nightmare for interstate travellers to change trains. But definitely Yeswantpur & Byappanahalli will be a good start for terminating trains. City station should continue to host transit traffic.

Excellent thread, with new inputs over past discussions. [see this page http://praja.in/tags/CRS to see all past talk on the subject]

It would seem that there are only two ways of doing CRS

• Augment capacity of tracks in the city, additional tracks basically, just like BBMP widens the roads.
• Or, IMHO better option, create new terminals at the edge or sub-urban entrance to the city. Use the freedup capacity to run commuter rails.

These edge stations (or lets use a new term, suburban terminals) would need further connectivity with other interior parts of the city, and that would come via the Commuter Rail itself. It would be just like how, to go to Vashi/New Mumbai, you go to Kurla or VT, and then take Harbour line commuter train to Vashi.

The suburban terminal option will help to better manage some other movement patterns as well. Like, a Terminal on the North Side near BIAL will increase BIAL's catchment, and will provide connectivity to the airport from city as well.

If Satellite Bus stations could be placed adjacent to the suburban terminals, Train to bus exchange pattern would get decentralized, currently, most of it happens predominently at one place, Majestic. did someone say there is no space? Well, remember, there is enough air space available over many railway stations in the city.

Assume metro phase-I is complete, in which case we'll have metro running between nayandhalli to majestic to byapanahalli.   So it makes perfect sense to convert nayandanahalli and byapanahalli as terminal stations for long distance trains. 

 

Also from my daily commute i have observed there is enough land available from cantonment railway station to whitefield station to quadrapule the lines, which will increase capacity.  And also the the quadrapuling project was approved way back in 1997(src:vision document indian railways).  Why is it a project approved in 1997 hasn't made any progress, not even a murmur.  To me it seems CRS is inevitable, its only a matter of time.  The sooner the better else people will start using long distance trains for urban commute.  How about making a point by travelling  in trains  on a designated day?  Lets call it a "commuter train day"..

vinod

 

Cross posting from the railways thread as it seems more relevant here:
"
Just curious - is the state as an entity prevented by law from building metro-like (mostly on-grade) "railways" connecting corridors or ringing metropolitan areas?
My dream: Karnataka invests in building ring / circular railways around major cities / metropolitan areas that connect the various suburbs and/or the surrounding towns. Travel using IR inter-state, seamlessly connect to circular on-grade suburban, reach your town, use bus or transfer to intra-city metro, use bus to reach home. Have specialized rakes for baggage like farm produce in the suburban railways so that a tractor-trailer can can directly enter a luggage section of the platform, unload hydraulically (or by other mechanical means), farmer pays for the baggage (much less than paying for private transport like lorry), unloads at a APMC scheduled stop of the suburban, sells his produce and returns home on the PT. True farmer-loving politicians ;-) should look at providing this convenience.
Much better (reliable, faster, cheaper?) to acquire approx. 2 (rail lines) + 2 (misc.) lane width for suburban railways than to acquire 8 lanes for PRR and encouraging private transport.
"
There seems to be adequate interest for a commuter rail day type event to occur.

Thought of recycling this old image, though Metro Ph 2 routes are likely to change, and BRT may not happen as well, the pic gives an idea of possibilities using CRS.

We hardly see any bus services to many of the above listed stations and is one of the major drawbacks for commuters not using commuter rauilway systems.The transport minister should seriously look at integrating bus & train services in bengaluru.We hardly see usable of bicycle as in chennai where the parking lots are filled with bicycles. They should start on priority with construction of new EMU/DEMU train yard as an immediate priority as we see the pit lines and railway tracks filled with capacity in the various city terminals.

Commuter Rail route suggestion on map.

 With this route, most of the places can be covered with just 1 changeover.

 

 

 

CAG Report which was submitted during June'2006 for the DEMU services of SWR.

Ref : Page No 4  / 2.1.3

South Western Railway  : Loss of earning capacity due to under-Railway utilisation of Diesel Electric Multiple Unit services

CAG report  indicates that SWR has incurred loss of 0.67 Crore by operating DEMU services between SBC to Whitefield & SBC to Chikbllapur. The utlization / traffic volume on this DEMU was only 10.54%  &  15.91% . 

Any one has idea / aware on these DEMU services as adversly indicated by CAG report.  As this type of report may be coming in the way for CRS starting . This is due to non-planning or awarness to public by Authorities. Also their may not be any feeder services provided for this DEMU by BMTC.

 

http://www.cag.gov.in/reports/railways/2006_6/chap_2.pdf

Are you optimistic about a new circular rail, or are you referring to the existing tracks ?

I was referring to the existing tracks. But Circular is a term being used by some authorities in the press reffering to the same thing we are discussing but only within city limits, as Commuter trains generally connect suburban towns.

So, we are talking of connecting Byp to Ypr at 2 min frequency akin to a metro in the same breath as running 20 min trains to tumkur & dodballapur which may or may not pass through the same stretches. Obviously we want both but there is a distinction.

As SWR is keepon claiming  City tracks are over loaded  Once we study  the Train timings of  summer spcial trains announced by SWR, its very clear  SWR is  having spare capacity  to run  more intercity trains.

1. YPR to Shiradi  Train No : 0685  Dep  at  morning 7:30 from YPR via Yelahanaka on Tuesday. Here the same could have been used to run local trains between Kengeri / SBC / YPR via Yelahanak to Devanahalli / Chikballapur.

In return direction, train is reaching YPR at  8PM on Thursday. So here also SWR could have planned Local Train starting at 7PM from Devanahalli to Kengeri.

2. Ernakulam -SBC Train No : 0659 arrival to SBC at 8:30AM on Tuesday & 0657 arrival to SBC at 10AM on Friday. Here this time is most suitable for Kengeri / SBC to WhiteFiled  Traffic

In return direction Train No : 0660 & 0658 are starting at 5:15PM  on Tuesday & 6:50PM on Friday which is again suitable for the  Kengeri / SBC to WhiteFiled  Traffic

3. YPR-KORBA Train No : 0682 arrival  at 1:30 at Yesvanthpur via Yelahanaka. This can be used for Devanahalli to Kengeri

4. Recently started YPR-Lucknow Train No : 6503  leaves YPR at 11: 15 on Wed  via Hebbal,  Banswadi. On return Train No : 6504  s arriving at 20:10 on Sunday. This was announced in last budget & statred in Feb'2010

5. YPR-Howrah Duronto Exp Train No : 2246 leaving YPR at 11:15 on Sunday  and in return direction Train No : 2245  arriving at YPR  on Saturday at 4 PM. This was announced after  the budget.

http://lite.epaper.timesofindia.com/getpage.aspx?pageid=16&pagesize=&edid=&edlabel=TOIBG&mydateHid=22-02-2010&pubname=&edname=&publabel=TOI

So one can see how SWR  is fooling  all  of  Bangalore Citizens on Local Trains / CRS. One more reason is Efforts State, they are  blaming Center & Center blaming state. Who & how much funds required for CRS. Hence SWR officers are running more trains to WB / Bihar / UP / Kerala.

Above facts show that SWR can start immediately many  CRS / Local trains even during the peak hours.

 We may not be surprised,  if  more trains announced for WB / Bihar / UP / Kerala. during peak period of day Morning / Eveneing arrival & starting  at SBC

At CAG report, state's limitations:
The state does seem to be constrained against building / operating rail systems as per the Railways Act unless it can be proved to be a tram (based on a hurried look at the relevant sections - 2.31, 16 and 20 respectively).
And, Railways are losing money for lack of feeder service as per the CAG article. Witness feeder service being run by Delhi metro than the bus companies.
Doesn't this situation ideally lend itself to a 2-way MoU? The State govt. can assure feeder service (by KSRTC) and the railways can allow part ownership (some routing, frequency etc.) by the State on limited (suburban, circular) services. BMLTA is the perfect state liaison and coordinating agency. Just needs the push (most likely by state govt.).

Good find n. 

This is what I was trying to say.  2.31 reads (i) a tramway wholly within a municipal area

Metro built under municipal limits of Bangalore took shelter under the mysore tramways act  so they did not have to get it built by IR.  This also means metro cannot service areas outside BBMP limits. I wonder how Delhi Metro can go to Gurgaon & Noida then.

HSRL on the other hand will not fall within a municipal area so BBMP had to acquire administrative control of the area of the route so it could satisfy this condition. It will be difficult to do this for lets say a Bangalore Mangalore line If the State needs to buid commuter rail lines on its own. It is not possible to have the entire Bangalore Mangalore area under one municipal administration

This clause needs to be altered so states can build their own railways and own it as long as it doesnt interfere with IR and maybe confine itself to the state instead of municipal limits. So effectively the alteration of clause from municipal to state and removal of the word Tramway will allow decontrol of the railways from IR stranglehold. There is no need for them to monopolize the services like this. 

On a lighter note 2.31 also reads (ii) lines of rails built in any exhibition ground, fair, park, or any other place solely for the purpose of recreation. Classify Bangalore city a theme park because it is one hairy ride anyway. In which case you can build mono rail for the joy ride. its a toy train anyway.

If the SWR can start few local / CRS trains

I insist we deserve and need a real CRS with proper rolling stock, not get-the-monkey-off-my-back efforts. 

2010 kaiydu nodona, illade iddre, IR mele KRV avaranna choo bittbidona :)

It will be worth the effort to meet a few SWR and GoK people to get their 'official' versions.

Lets also speak to few journalists, and help one paper or TV channel do a detailed report on CRS possibilities (feasibility is different from possibility). Such a thing would raise the profile of this issue/demand.

Can try DNA, Express, Hindu, or TV9.

Navven ;

 unless buses are permitted into railway stations to pick up & drop off passengers, CRS may never work

BMTC playing feeder services to CRS  on existing is not a problem.

Already We have  BMTC Bus Stand infront of the follwing  stations (  my knowledge ) and their are regular services of BMTC :

1) Yelahanka
2)  Chikkabanavara
3)  Kodigehalli
4)  Lottegollahalli
5)  Cantonment
6)  K R puram
7)  Yesvanthpur
8)  Hebbal
9)  Bangalore East
10)  Kengeri
11) Gnanbharathi 
12)  Malleshwarm
13) Gol Halli
14)  Whitefiled

With few changes to BMTC root, further stations can be included for Local Trains.

I agree completely, In the  long run, we need Full Fledge services of CRS with frequency of  10  Minites. To come to this situtaion, we need to start some where & its already more then 10 years, things have not changed.  Once we have this small services of  four shuttel services in the morning & four in the evening in each direction, then awarness will come  with Public & further  things will start moving. 

Lets take this CRS / Local Trains  in  three -to four phases  to have full fledge service :

Phase - 1  Start immediatley  : four shuttel services in the morning & four in the evening in each direction  on existing SWR  traclk, already capacity is available with SWR.  Services should be during peak hours only. Time line : Within one to two months

Phase  -2  : Build necessary tracks  & electrification with few more new stations & platforms   to be added.  Increase the frequency of services to  16 per day in each direction  Timeline : 12 -18 months

Phase - 3 :  Build additional tracks  and extend the track to BIAL Terminal,  upto Electronic city from Karmelaram Station . Increse the frequecny of services  to every 15 Minitues. Timeline : 30 -36 months

Phase - 4 :  Extend the CRS  further BMA boundry  upto Hosur,  Kolar, Chikaballapur &  if possible put the tarcks from Kengeri to Electronics City along Nice Road.  Increase  the frequency to  8 -10 Min. Timeline :  42-48 months

With this was even  State and Center can mobilze the required funds and  Ridership will also improve over the period with all three BMT,   METRO & CRS  complimenting each other.

Even as you sugested  on increasing BMTC buses,  as roads already are chocked, then  how do we ensue the speed of travel, forget the compfortness of travelling.

 insist we deserve and need a real CRS with proper rolling stock, not get-the-monkey-off-my-back efforts. 

2010 kaiydu nodona, illade iddre, IR mele KRV avaranna choo bittbidona :) 

Then wait for the next decade 2020, we will get complet  METRO, let us  enjoy the further polluion, congested roads &  increase in travel time. KRV has not  raised issue  till now on Local Trains or CRS.   I agree on this. & we should explore this.   They can make difference on this, but I am not sure they will do this???

Sanjeev,

four shuttel services in the morning & four in the evening in each direction  on existing SWR  traclk, already capacity is available with SWR.  Services should be during peak hours only.

Bangalore City station (and the rail corridors in general) are quite crowded between 6 am - 9 am and 6 pm - 9 pm (broadly what could be classified as peak hours) due to several arrivals/departures of long-distance trains. As such, I don't think it will be possible to run services during peak hours with the existing infrastructure.

There is nothing in it for SWR to provide commuter rail service to Bangalore

In which case they should allow the state to do it themselves. Lets ask SWR/muniyappa to go and campaign for the IR act 2.31 modification in lieu of us getting off their back or even easier provide IR land for the state to lay their own tracks adjacent, over, under their tracks.

I am more interested in decontrol of IR monopoly so the state can lay their own tracks, it is a hassle to go behind this state provider to get anything done.

As Manish mentioned about the  Railway ministry may hive off suburban traffic operations.

Also as mentioned by Naveen, We are probably talking about 2050 now on IR deregulations and let go of monopoly.  With MoS MR K H Muniyappa from Bangalore,  we have seen last one year, what Mamatha has allowed him to do. Even the Rajdhani announced last budget not yet started.

As mentioned by Navven on IR control by Center,  now state has to depend on IR at mercy of Mamatha.  Its better now for state to go with Railway on Sharing basis ( SPV ) 50% by State & 50% by Railways ss done in Hassan Managalor Rail Developmenet Company ( HMRDC)   with NMPT & MEL or MMTS ( Hyderabad Metro )

Other wise BEML can participate in SPV.  Lets say State 40%, Center / Railway 40% & BEML :10%, with FII's & public 10%. Here BEML can supply the rolling stock for CRS as BEML has gained expetise in MTERO Rakes on Broad Gauge line for Delhi METRO.    Rakes can be as per METRO design  for CRS. State will be more interested in BEML as the State will get more tax collections.

This type of debate will keep on going for Bangalore may be for next one decade &  Hyderabad MMTS is planning for phase-2 this year. Similalry in Karnataka we need CRS for Mysore, Managalore, Hubi-Dharwad  If the Banaglore gets CRS, then it will help other cities of  Karnatak for Locla trains getting.