Big10 concept - Circle Routes are here?

(Click on image to enlarge)

I have noticed BIG Blue BMTC Buses,they are just like our BIG 10 Route but the color of the bus is Blue in Color. The Route I have noticed is B2 from Electronics City to Peenya via Cantt. Station.  Do any of you have an update of this new BIG Blue route's. BIG 10  should be termed as BIG 12 as I have noticed BMTC is running BIG 12 route from Corporation Office to Hedgenagar. This bus belogs to Depot No. 30 of Puttenhalli. I went thru the BMTC site to check on these new routes but the site is not updated yet. At Hebbal I have Noticed BIG Circle Route C-2 from Hebbal to Banshankari.

Lot of new colors to the BMTC fleet.

If BMTC can make a press release to the convience of the public it wouldbe great.

I hope Ashwin will clarify.

What about BMTC responding to our suggestions on this and other problems?

May I request Manjari/Rithesh to try for an early meeting/joint visit to Jngr TTMC with BMTC to follow up our efforts and take them to their logical conclusion?

K.V.Pathy

@Yajamaanre' - With the extended Big-10 (blue) service, besides, the numberings will go haywire, and consequently predictability. Apart from that is also the driver fatigue factor, when the routes become lengthy, as you have very rightly pointed out.

And, that's why I have suggested 3 or more Ho-Ho circuits in the CBD. The South-East one will possibly link Big-10 routes 1,2,3,4 & 10, the loop touching Corporation Circle at one end and Trinity Circle at the other. Likewise, routes 5,6,7 can be linked to the 2nd ho-ho; and, 8,9 & 11 to the 3rd. Now, if the ho-ho loops turn out too circuitous, perhaps an additional inner ho-ho can be added, going around Cubbon park and touching City and Can't stations, and linking all the other ho-ho loops.

Now, this will require commuters to accept the idea of a few of change-overs. But, with good frequencies that should not be a serious problem. It should be realised that trying to serve everyone, door-to-door, has led to the present situation of 1800 odd routes, serving no one adequately.

Another possibility here is the uniform per ride charge, irrespective of the distance travelled, which, with some bit of simple automation, can possibly eliminate the conductor (and revenue leakage therewith), apart from simplifying operations considerably.
 

 I would like to see some routes that help connect nearby locations to each other bypassing Majestic, ORR and SBS.  Examples

a. Jayanagar 9th block to Domlur via East End Road, Dairy Circle, Forum, Koramangala Kalyana Mantapa, National Games Village, Viveknagar, Command Hospital

This route will connect Jayanagar to BG Road (IT parks), Forum (shopping), Koramangala to Domlur.  It will give people who stay in Koramangala and Viveknagar the option to take 335E and G1 to ITPL side by changing at Domlur. 

Distance is approximately 12 km and can be covered in 45 to 60 mins. 

b. Koramangala to Frazer Town via Inner Ring Road, Indiranagar 100ft Road, OM Road, Ulsoor Lake and Coles Park.  

This route will provide connectivity along an important SE corridor towards the North East.  Also gives an option to people in Frazer Town area the option of  going to Domlur (catching 335E) and Koramangala to catch buses towards E-City.

Distance is about 12 km

c. Domlur to Kalyan Nagar via Airport Road, Suranjandas Road, CV Raman Nagar (with a possible loop in and out of Bagmane Tech Park), Benniganahalli, ORR.  (about 15 km)

d. JP Nagar 6th Phase to CV Raman Nagar via JP Nagar 9th Cross, Jayadeva, SilkBoard, Koramangala 80ft Road, IRR, Doopanahalli, Thippasandra Main Road (18 km).

IDS - can you plot these out on a map and paste them so that one can see the full picture?

Srivathsa

 The above routes are not so much about the ends they connect but that they traverse important roads and routes.  The idea is to take out BBS and SBS and put the buses starting and ending where there is less clutter.

On the same line

a. J.P.Nagar 3rd Phase to Kengeri Bus Stand -- 9th cross J.P.Nagar, 11th Main, 36th Cross Jayanagar,  Monotype, Subramanyapura Road, Uttarahalli, Ajwani Road, Rajarajeshwari Nagar, RV College.  Distance about 20km.

b. Jnana Bharathi to Shantinagar Bus Stand via Sh17, ORR, Girinagar, Banashankari I stage, Vanivilas Road, Lalbagh Main Gate. - 16 km.  From there on one can connect to 365, 356, 171.  

More later,

Srivathsa

@Yajamaan
Your suggestions for new routes don't conform to 'direction orientation' that is being sought to be promoted here. It is going to introduce route no 1801, 1802, etc. If some point-to-point services are very essential, perhaps they should be left to the private sector to provide.

@Vasanth
I agree with your suggestion of providing continuous clockwise and anti-clockwise operations on the ring road, as well as on the inner ring road, if this is going to be implemented as planned. When that happens, a commuter has to just note the colour of the bus, and the direction in which it's moving, and board it.
 

 Murali-sir,

I did not intend for them to conform to any direction orientation.  I don't think that direction orientation can solve all our problems.   There is a need to cover the city as much as possible. As I said my routes try and cover as many localities and roads so that peoples' dependency on autos and bikes comes down.  People don't travel in directions - they want to reach a destination :).  

There is G-1 to G12.  Let us say that we get to 5 minute frequencies on each of them.  Total of 144 buses will be plying in one direction.  Dynamic capacity of say 70 or about 10000 people moved in 1 hour.  15 hours - 1,50,000 people.  Multiply by 2 for return trips - 300,000 people.  That is 10% of the total trips being made.   Unless you plan to stuff 200 people in each bus.  

You can think of my routing as a way to connect localities without having to touch KBS or SBS.  There is a need to have a mix of direction and point to point routes.  Whether by private players or BMTC.  

Srivathsa

 One request will be for these routes to make necessary minor detours to connect metro and other train stations enroute. 

I am sure while these radials and circles form the trunk routes, the entire bangalore is not expected to be covered by these 200/400 buses. So these high capacity trunks will become interchange points (like metro & CRS etc) for other point to point routes. Over time they could use Janti-Vahanas to increase capacity and if priority and dedicated lanes are added it will become BRT. 

Though the strech is empty the buses are not. 401M and 501 series carry a huge amount of crowd especialy in the peak hour. Probably inner circle buses can be increased on this strech mentioned which can cater to the crowd. 205 and 205A cater to a protion but is not very frequent and takes a long detour to reach Vijayanagar from Hosakerahalli which tests the patience.

 Your suggestion of making big circle buses full circle/half circle might not solve the issue of frequency and in fact such a service might even aggravate the issue at hand.

I work in a company at bellandur and I have also observed that during peak hours buses are always filled and  consequently, commuters in this stretch cannot use the service. The buses get filled up from marathahalli and before.(and the volvos at ITPL). The issue here is although buses may be going in a big circle there is a unequal distribution of population along the ring road. In some bus stands, on a average, you will find more commuters. Having a full circle service will not solve the discrepancy. People in some areas will have to always climb packed buses.

So, my suggestion , which is the exact opposite of yours, is to have more different starting and ending terminating points. I understand that this  would mean the commuter would need to know probably look at the bus number before boarding but i think that would be smaller problem than the one we would be solving.

Different starting point in this case would ensure some people who wait a little longer can sit and travel and the ones who are in hurry can travel in the overcrowded ones. Also, every bus stand in ORR needs to be turned into a transit exchange point - sooner the better. In my opinion,Making each bus travel shorter distances  is the way to go.If the system gets streamlined -having good transit centres, single ticketing - ,making 2 or 3 transitions will not be a big deal and that is the future we should strive for.

With the introduction of new buses many Janti Vahanas have gone off routes. Route No.2 where 3 janti vahanas were plying doesnt even have a single one now. similarly many of them have moved off and after 2005 they werent introduced also for reasons unknown. they were good capacity holders in the major routes. Hope BMTC introduces them back again.

@Dr Ashwin Mahesh

Someone asked why B2 and G2 are overlapping. My understanding is as follows - overlapping is usually an effective way to double up service on higher-demand sections, while allowing only a smaller subset of buses to run on the lower-demand segment. For instance, we may consider that most people from Electronics City would get off the bus before Brigade Road, whereas a smaller subset would like to go to the other side of the city. This kind of 'cut-service' arrangements are common in most direction based services, including Metro rail ones.

Agreed, Doc. But, for how many of the routes are you going to be providing these extended cut services? Planning to base the decision on some survey, or something? Also, considering that these buses will have to move right across the heart of the city, wouldn't the movement be too slow, ending up with the commuters being better off taking the circular route, after a change over? And, there's also the driver fatigue factor. Besides, of course, you can't have the 'uniform charge per ride' too, and its considerable benefits.
 

@pravn1984

The issue here is although buses may be going in a big circle there is a unequal distribution of population along the ring road. In some bus stands, on a average, you will find more commuters. Having a full circle service will not solve the discrepancy.

Where there's less population (and therefore shorter stops), the buses will move faster, providing for a failry even distribution of the buses along the entire route. There's nothing like an ultimate solution. We have to see which is less un-satisfactory, if you want to put it that way. Continuous runs I believe meets the bill best.

 

@ids

Janti-vahana's are a pain when it comes to overtaking. And, since they necessarily have a speed constraint, they are best confined to roads where they do not land up leading 'funeral processions'.
 

We already have many disconnected versions in the form of 500A's, Ds, Ks, Ws, Ts etc.. Addition of Big Circle in the same discontinued format will be nothing but old wine in new bottle, or old bus in new painting. It should value add something compared to other services.

What we want to see is assured frequency between morning 6 to night 10 and continued night service.

The discontinuity will cause lots of problems , especially for the aged, school going children to changeover the bus in messy junctions such as Banashankari, Silkboard and KR Puram. It is very insecured with huge vehicles on the ORR. It may lead to fatalities. I never take such discontinued buses which is so cumbersome to changeover. Also waits for the bus will increase. Wait at Banashankari, wait at Silkboard, wait at Marathalli , wait at KR Puram to reach the destination.

Silkboard for example, does not have any pedestrain crossing from Western ORR to Eastern ORR.

I request Prof. Ashwin to take a ride on the ORR to feel personally during peak hours and late nights and changeover buses in Banashankari / Silkboard before taking the call.

Regarding the map, I will put another inner corridor shortly.

they are best confined to roads where they do not land up leading 'funeral processions'.

This I agree, but its in our hands. Articulated buses are usually used on trunk routes in most countries and not on feeder routes or inside residential areas. In our city there is no formal distinction between a trunk route and a feeder service. I believe this Big10 and Big circle is the first formal effort to create a trunk service, so the rest of the services point to point or loop services can become feeders to these (and other) trunks

But what I have also noticed in Europe is that if the trunk passes through even 2 lane roads, the janti vahana goes there regardless of the size of the road. So you have to design your trunk along routes which can carry volumes, the vehicle itself may change over time. Today it may be articulated buses tomorrow it may be double articulated or BRT or Light Rail which will run on those routes. So its up to us to either choose the roads or make the roads appropriately.

If the crowd is more than can fit a bendy-bus and a 5 minute frequency it is time for a light rail

Well, to start with Indian streets are probably the most 'de-regulated' & the Laissez-Faire attitude to what happens in traffic lanes is staright out from medievel times.

The battle on the streets between various user types is actually being encouraged by simply widening them & forgetting all else. I think it has actually gotten worse now, & we do not seem to be able to get out of this nightmare.

Street level Light rail, if introduced will be another phenomenon to bear with on the roads & will add a new dimension in the 'minefields' that our streets are (similar to Kolkata trams). Until we fix our roads through space allocation & improved discipline, nothing much will change.

Operation of light rail might not help & become expensive since they will also get 'caught up' in traffic, time & again, leading to reduced passenger volumes. Articulated buses, or double articulated buses may work better.

Well, Big Circle should run full circle as we debated earlier and also stated the problems of crossing the junctions. Few commented that buses will crowded.

For this we could have buses starting from various points on ORR and ending thereonly after going full round. For example Marathalli to Marathalli, Kengeri to Kengeri, Hebbal to Hebbal, Silkboard to Silkboard. This will solve the problem of crowding. I work near Marathalli, so I would prefer bus starting from Marathalli.

Recently, I got down at Kengeri Railway Station after coming from Mysore. I got a big circle bus running between Hebbal to Kengeri. I could not board since I had to goto BSK III Stg and bus ends at Kengeri.

This is the major problem of the disconnects.

the authorities have all but abandonned BRTS

3 Cities in India have BRTS. Delhi, Pune & Ahemdabad. The Ahemdabad one is supposedly a better model. We can try BRTS on ORR between Hebbal & Silkboard jns. This stretch is an ideal candidate.It connects Big Circle buses on NH7 North and South and NH4/Whitefield in between.

A dedicated track with physical seperation along the median is required. This can be upgraded later to run tram trains. There will be no interference and discipline issues because of physical seperation. Signal will get extra phases for BRTS corridor. Ideally we should try this on PPP basis (3rd party concessionaire should BOOT)

 How light rail can take up these diversions

How are we now planning works around railway lines in the city that already exist? How will we do works around metro rail in tunnels and on pillars? Once permenant structures come up BBMP/BWSSB/Bescom will have to adopt more mature processes to manage the utilities around those. We cant let infrastructure be hostage to current immaturity in procedures, we will never grow that way. We will have to educate and take them along. This kind of infrastructure will make that non negotiable. 

This is like going to sub saharan Africa and dumbing down the infrastructure needs because they havent seen electricity and dont know how to use it.

I believe BRT is necessary where there is much more likelihood for buses to get delayed frequently due to intersections & traffic pile-ups, typically on streets within ORR. Further, the demand for quick travel is also higher in areas within ORR.

This point needs to be looked at with growth projections along this corridor and extending into Devanahalli & Tumkur road beyond 2015. ORR is a corridor which is going to take much more traffic than the current 6 lanes can take. The signal free is necessary to move efficiently whatever traffic is already on it but not if it goes beyond capacity. How do you ensure further growth will not increase the congestion along this stretch. How long did a 4 lane Hosur road last? A look at congestion in signal free freeways of California shows us how we will be in 2020. Daily commute has to move to mass transit like trains especially in populated countries like ours. If this means sacrificing a lane on ORR for dedicated PT, then so be it.

Ideally all trunk (big 12 & Big circle) routes should be priority at least

This is my thought on the inner circle, there is some problem with the map near Jayamahal and Mekhri Circle which I did some mistake while drawing lines..Sorry for that, I will post a corrected one shortly.

Route is like this - Mekhri Circle - RT Nagar - Indiranagar - Domlur - Koramangala - Forum - Diary Circle - Siddapura Road - Lalbagh West Gate - Ashrama - Hanumanthnagar - Bank Colony - Outer Ring Road - Nayandahalli - Vijaynagar - Navarang - Harischandra Ghat - KC General Hospital - Malleshwaram - IISC -Mekhri Circle.

Someone near RT Nagar can suggest better route between Mekhri Circle and Indiranagar.