In the above list we can also have the 6519/20 jolarpettai express from bangalore. It leaves bangalore city at 17:20hrs and stops at cantt,east,byappanhalli,K.R.Pruam,Whitefield,tyakal,malur to reach bangarpet at 19:00hrs. will be suitable for people returning from city. opposite it leaves bangarpet at 6:10AM.  to reach bangalore at 8:00AM. 

Long distance trains at least trains coming from neighboring states or starting in Karnataka, should have some extra stops in stations in the CRS plan. That will provide convenience to people who live near those stations or who have an alternate way to reach destination because they could avoid traffic. No extra trains also need to be introduced. The best example is Bangarpet. People from the routinely utilize long distance trains.

YH-1 & YH-2  starting timing at Yesvanthpur has been changed  from 1st July 2010,  SWR has not bothered to inform public on the change in timings. From Housr, timings remain same only.

Changed timings are :  YH-1 will depart from Yesvanthpur at  6: 30 AM instead of 6::20                                                            YH-2 will depart from Yesvanthpur at  3:00 PM instead of  3:30PM

@ Kannan &  others   : Its Negative Publicity  by some people, just neglect it.

One of them told on 30-June-10 that very little people use the Yeshvantpur-Hosur passenger and almost none use Yeshvantpur Devanahalli route

The services from Yesvanthpur to Hosur, and Devanhalli started exactly 3 months back without any publicity  by Railways and only bare minimum 2 service  to Housr and one to Devanhalli.   Timings are of not much suitable to any one.   Without any publicity and wrong timings,  how people will start using  in short time. Even when baby has to come to the world after full fledge growth, it needs minimum 9 months time..  Same thing, we need to give time to mature the services and frequency need to be increased as you do not have train betwen 5PM to 7PM. 

From the first month of launching in April,  usage has gradually picked up  on Yesvanthpur to Hosur.   Devnahalli is till to pick up as the timings are of no use to any one on this  route.  Also the Trains ned to be started from Bangalore city and  Housr train does not go to  Baiyyappanahalli which is one more dis-advantage.

Following Factors will force the people to use Local Trains :

1. With increase in petrol prices and increase in BMTC fares along with increase in the travll time by road, will force people to switch over to Local Trains. 

2. Once MTERO starts at Biyyappanahalli and Yesvanthpur, further people will start using these Local Train services. 

3.  As BMTC is providing services from Yesvanthpur, people will gradually will start using Local Trains.

One more thing to note : Some Traffic experts and Decision makers in State Govt  are of the view that  Commuter / Local Train should not  be deployed where METRO is planned other wise this create duplicate facility.  Customer / Passangers have choice to Travelll by METRO / BMTC / Commuter Train.  Take example, Majestic to Whitefiled METRO is planned.  This does not mean people will stop using currently running couple of  passanger Trains between Majestic to Bangarpet.

Sanjeev

Sorry for putting this suggestion in late.  I just saw the post saying that the report is done and wanted to at least mention this after review.  Once the frequency of traffic goes up, it is going to be imperative to put up some ROBs along these lines.  At least on the line going to Hosur via Bellandur, the areas on the other side of the railway track are all revenue areas with piss poor planning, no proper road network and rapidly increasing traffic.  If the train frequency is going to go up, some ROBs may be required.  It will be best to execute that as part of the proposed SPV.  Otherwise, this commuter rail track will simply cut off areas and increase accidents.

@Naveen,

As the EMU Trains will be used for CRS, so this will have engine on both side, wait time at  Byappanahalli  should not be more then 4-5 minites. 

As suggested by IDS, : we can do a dedicated field study on both these options at this location.

Lets complete the report by filling the  gaps where ever exists

Sanjeev

Train rake has to go in reverse direction to come to Baiyyappanahalli for train going to Yelahanka.

This would be necessary only if a train has to run between Hosur directly towards Yelahanka via the eastern route/s (ie. without entering city). The distance from Bypappanahalli to Hosur itself is some 40km. Extending the route towards Yelahanka or further will make the trip very long, & a 20 minute halt at Byappanahalli will be both, unavoidable & necessary since it will be a major station - the need for the engine changing ends might thus not pose obstacles for running a direct train between Hosur & Yelahanka, even if trains over the much longer distance are to be operated.

Since we know that Byappanahalli will be  will be willwexpanded anyway with all services, we should suggest this in preference to a new Beniganahalli terminal station. The distance between the existing Byappanahalli station & the track crossings at Benniganahalli is appx'ly 1400m (I checked from Google). As per indications, the NGEF land being handed over to SWR at Byp is even further away. See Byappanahalli land plan at this link. 

BMRC is also planning a pedestrian overpass across their depot from OMR to the SWR station on the other side + integration with BMTC /KSRTC will happen automatically anyways at the Metro terminus. The option to run circular trains will also open up.

I think we, as`praja should push for this option instead of leaving it to them, particularly since we know the kind of cockups they come up with, left to themselves - let them find a way to do this, somehow ! T         he benefits far outweigh the disadvantages hands down - what is your final opinion ?

In the Indian context due to lack of reliable feeder service,if multi-level options had been feasibly exhausted, then the need for other stations can arise. In other words, if KBS was a 10-storey structure (hypothetical limit on feasibility) and could physically not take more buses, then using a second option makes sense. Similarly, a 4-storey structure may be the maximum for railways. Land is always at a premium (and/or litigation) and leads to higher cost (exception being unencroached govt. land like NGEF that happened to be available as they shut down).

Here are some hypothetical cases:
Let the cost of train from City Central to Yes'pura be Rs. 100 (say first 10 km), Rs. 100 (for next 20 km say to Yelahanka) and Rs. 100 to next 50 km. Assume there exists a reliable "ring" metro service. It is better to replace PRR and other planned-but-not-constructed RRs with a far-fewer lane, more sustainable and reliable on-grade metro. Then people will have less incentive to travel to Central unless it is really convenient, They will either get off at Yelahanka or at Yes'pura and catch the metro to nearest stop and walk home, go by auto or catch a bus. Again, Yelahanka or Yes'pura cannot be the terminating or origin points as there will always be people getting off at Central for better convenience.
Even with good feeder to say Satellite bus station, the cost is high for people on N., NE areas. Best for them to decide the option to use - a) ring mass transit like metro to a station on the outskirts or b) radial travel to congested central areas.
a) would be stress free and may cost less money but more time.
b) would be stressful, may cost more and may take same or less time depending on traffic.
This will ensure distribution of pressure and also lead to less confusion.

Just because other cities in India have different locations doesn't mean that they are better (in fact they are not).  Developed cities do not have the unique problems of Indian cities (high pop./density, congestion, lower income etc.) and hence cannot be emulated in toto.

Again, to summarize:
1) Provide option for multimodal transfers at stations in a ring around a major pop. center (city, metropolis etc.) but start/end at city center so that people are not shoe-horned into using restricted options for certain directions of travel.
2) Provide reliable ring and radial transportation (think kendra saarige and big10 on a bigger scale), and good feeder service to train/bus stations and last-mile, local areas.

In the current scenario, reliable feeders exist to only KBS. So, it doesn't make sense to fracture the long distance services. And, it is not a good idea to shift start/end points even if feeders did exist.

e) Will help decongest city station & makes for easier shifting of inter-city trains to terminate /start at Byappanahalli from city.

Won't this lead to confusion and more usage of resources? All residents of S., SW region of the city will have to pay more, take more time to reach Byp'halli.
This is similar to having at least 4 different bus stations for long-distance buses (KBS, Shantinagar, Satellite off Mysore Rd. and KR market) - residents will get confused let alone newcomers. It seems that the thinking is narrow-minded to cater to the population in the surrounding areas; but what about the areas opposite or not easily accessible to the re-located bus / train station? It is torturous (by bus) to reach Shantinagar from Mysore road area; much more easy to reach KBS. Ditto reaching Satellite Station from say Indiranagar. That's not including the mess called KR Market.
I have noticed this line of thinking from a few other members and think that it leads to confusion in the short-term and  lack of sustainability in the long-term. The better (cheaper in terms of land acquisition cost and time) solution would be to go multi-level. For trains, the end two tracks can begin an elevated journey say a kilometer before the city railway station and start branching off to multiple elevated lines after a given distance / rise. This will lead to better efficiency and to segregation of goods and people traffic (different turnaround times, different requirements etc.). Byp'halli can always be a major transfer point but not an origin / destination point.

 @Naveen : wanted to confirm if passenger trains are using the right turn to reach Byappanahalli before KRPuram

At Banswadi, right turn is being used  by all express trains starting from Yesvanthpur to Chennai ( Vasco Train ), Patna, Howrah ( Durrunto Express ), Lucknow going past goods yard..  Also their is complete electrification done from SBC- Yesvanthpur- Banaswadi- Baiyyappanahhali- K R Puram so that all north east bound & Chennai trains start with electrical engine at Yesvanthpur station only. 

@Naveen they are having severe capacity constraints at all goods yards (City, Byp & Whitefield).

From Banaswadi to Baiyyappanahalli Goods Yard is around 4.30 Kms and is electrified with single Track. Here problem is that  its single track from Baiyyappanahalli till Yesvanthpur By-pass, similarly except  KR Puram, all other stretches are single track. In any Metro cities, Indian Railway has almost 4 tracks where ever goods loading activity are carried out. Also their is ample land available with Railways for laying of new tracks. Also Yesvanthpur By-pass from Lottegolhalli - ORR - Chikbanavar ( towards Tumkur ) is not electrified dist : 4 Kms, now goods Train have to change engine at Baiyyappanahalli and then proceed to Chikbanavar, this is adding  inefficiency at Baiyyapanahhali.

 If they go straight after Banaswadi (without taking the right turn), they will by-pass Byappanahalli to reach KRPuram.

This will create problem at Beniganahalli station as Belandur - Channasandra is taking right tunrn and crossing ORR. Also station integration will not be possible.  So this is not feasible to bypass Baiyyappanahalli Goods Yard. 

As suggested by Naveen, we can have four platform at 2nd Level  at Proposed Benninganahalli station and  at ground level  can have four platforms two for crossing station and two for trains coming from Tumkur terminating at Beniganahalli station.  Metro is at right side of Baiyyappanahhali to ITPL, so their is no issue as descent to ground level  can be after crossing ORR , this will come after crossing  of Benninganhalli station

Also we should see how Harbour line at  Wadala road to Kings Circle Stations elevated track is constructed to cross Western Line and proceed towards Andheri.  Here Harbour line platform at Kings Circle is slightly away from main station ( arround 100 Mts ).

As suggested by Naveen, we should include where ORR or National Highway road is close to existing stations / proposed stations. like Hebbal & Lottegolahalli, IVC road,  Devanhalli, Dodballapur,  Marathalli, Karmelaram, Kengeri.  Alsowe should mention major Hospitals, Educational colleges, major entertainment centers like  Wonder La,  Film city near Bidadi, Lumbini Garden, Hebbal Park & J P Park Gokula. 

The right turn is now being used by trains going to K.R.Puram by-passing byappanhalli

@Naveen

Trains from Yesvanthpur to Bangarpet will take right diversion at Banswadi and go to Baiyyappanahalli & cross Benninganahalli  to K R Puram.

Trains from Yesvanthpur  to Hosur will go straight at Banswadi and cross the Railway Track at Benninganahalli and proceed to Hosur as YH-1 is going.

So at Benninganahalli we will have two level railway platforms. Hence SWR & IDD with BBMP & BMTC need to build  interchange station at Multi level.  One station with two platforms at ground level on existing  track running to  K R Puram to Whietfiled.  At Hosur line, we need to have  two platforms at  2nd level : for Belandur to Banswadi route and one more for Belandur to Channasandra. Total three  lines and three platforms  at 2nd level at Benninganahalli.  This third line need to be taken down to Channasandra with elevated structure proceed to Yelahanka. ( This type SWR has thought at this junction long back, but their is push from them ). Similar things  have been done in Mumbai for Harbour line  near to VT station Sandhurst Station and another place for Harbour line at  Wadala road to Kings Circle Stations.

As Naveen mentioned above,  Yelahanka to Bangarpet will have interchange at K R Puram Station and not at Benninganhallai, this is the only thing which will not have interchange at Benninganahalli. 

So Yesvanthpur to Bangarpet & Yelahanaka to  Bangarpet  can be operated as explained above for Commuter Rail as ITPL & Malur / Bangarpet need them

So I do not feel any issue with Routes as summarized by Syed, except we need to have down ramp for Belandur to Channasandra at Intersection of Benninganahalli. by crossing the outer ring road.

Regards

Sanjeev

A slightly old railway tracks plan is shown below :

An extract of the area around Beniganahalli from google maps is reproduced below with rail tracks marked in red : 

From these, I think the proposal for any more rake interchanges near the proposed Beniganahalli station is going to be very difficult since the surrounding areas are already built up (BG lines would need far larger turn radius than Metro lines, as is evident from the sketches).

The flwg proposed routes might thus need changes :

2. Hosur-Byappanahalli(Benninganahalli)-Jakkur-Yelahanka-Doddballapur - No interchange between Salem line to Channasandra line. Even if there were one, & a platform could be built, it would be far removed from where lines cross one another.

5. Tumkur/Nelamangala-Yeswantpur-Byappanahalli (Benninganahalli) - Possible only if Beniganahalli station can also be developed as a terminal station, assuming a multi-level station can be built there at the intersection of lines.

6. Yeswantpur/Yelahanka-Byappanahalli (Benninganahalli)-Whitefield-Malur-Bangarpet - This can be possible if the start point is Yelahanka & if Byp /Bnghalli can be skipped, in which case, the rake interchange to KR Puram from Channasandra could be used.

 4. Yeswantpur-Banaswadi-Benninganahalli-Anekal-Hosur - Possible if it skips Byp, as is being run already now.

Generally, based on the limitations :

a) Trains coming from Kengeri side can go all the way to either Yeswantapur or to Byappanahalli ;

b) Trains from north (Yelahanka side) can go upto either Yeswantapur or Byappanahalli  ;

c) Trains from Anekal side can go upto Yeswantapur or Byappanahalli ;  &

d) Trains from east (Whitefield) side can go upto City stn or beyond towards Kengeri side.

IDS, Naveen, Santsub,

I have updated the CRS wiki with list of proposed new stations for each of the segments. This is based on Sanjeev's list and some analysis from my side.

Please review the list and feel free to correct or add.

Regards,

Syed

there is a post with the 8 files created by Sanjeev, I think, which I cannot find now. I based my earlier comments re. routes from what I remembered was listed there. Any leads where these files are loaded on praja ?

Also, the routes might need a re-look if a station is not possible at Beniganahalli, as I mentioned before. I cannot start making a map until routes that we are going to propose are not clear & agreed beforehand.

How do I access it ?

new station to be created at the point where the Yeshwantpur-Anekal line crosses the CIty-KRPuram line

Did your discussions with IDD indicate this as feasible ? Byappanahalli close by is going to be expanded to a large inter-modal hub. Further, I think there are space constraints for a large station with many platforms at that intersection. You would need two grade-separated station platforms at each level, perpendicular to one another. Better discuss about this with SWR /IDD before moving ahead & working any further on this option.

Our discussions with IDD also indicated any effective option can be pursued

This is not much of a promise, though I agree with what you say in support for a set of tracks along NICE /PRR. NICE is going to be a tolled rd & there might not be a PRR on the west when there is already a NICE rd. Eastern part of PRR is being pursued first for this reason & they might take a decision about west PRR only much later. If only NICE remains on the western part, which I think is very likely since ORR west will also have a Monorail with a spur along Magadi rd that can be extended later upto PRR, then NICE might not permit rail tracks, given that they will lose business, akin to BETL. I'm not sure what their agreement terms are with the state govt.

Where are the final routes that are being proposed ? Any links to it or are they the same as what Syed has posted above ?

I had earlier mentioned abt the eight files that were attached as part of this project. In one of those files (the only excel file), I think Sanjeev has listed several possible routes (A through J, I think). I had referred to routes from there. The first five or six routes quoted there had this Bidadi-Anekal route in addition to another four or five that were all to start from Bidadi.

As regards routes mentioned above, I wonder why you mention Byappanahalli (Beniganahalli) everywhere - the station is clearly termed Byappanahalli, both by SWR as also BMRC. Also, quoting Jakkur can be confusing. The eastern line passes well east of Jakkur layout & only skims the periphery of Jakkur lake, far from Jakkur layout. It also has Channasandra as a station. The western line has Kodigehalli as a station. Thus, it might be better to include & quote either Kodigehalli or Channasandra to differentiate them more clearly.

(2) Hosur-Byappanahalli-Jakkur-Yelahanka-Doddballapur --- This route will have to reverse direction at Byappanahalli with present tracks.

(4) Yeswantpur-Byappanahalli-Anekal-Hosur, (5) Tumkur/Nelamangala-Yeswantpur-Byappanahalli, & (6) Yeswantpur/Yelahanka-Byappanahalli-Whitefield-Malur-Bangarpet --- Yeswantapur to Byappanahalli is currently not possible unless direction is reversed.

(7) Yelahanka-Yeshwantpur-NICE PRR /City-Kengeri-Bidadi-Ramanagara, & (8) Nelamangala-Yeswantpur-Kengeri-Bidadi-Ramanagaram --- I'm not sure we should be asking for an entirely new line along PRR - expecting a totally new line to bypass city station (on the west) might be too much to expect since city station is anyway going to be expanded substantially with the binny mill lands. Instead, I think we can enquire & suggest dedicated infrastructure for commuter rail - the main stations are all being expanded & if tracks /platforms can be kept separate, services can be operated with far more ease than at present.

Sanjeev - could you confrm above route restrictions ?

Naveen,

The proposed routes for commuter rail are:

1. Yeswantpur - Yelahanka - Devanahalli - Chickballapur
2. Hosur-Byappanahalli(Benninganahalli) - Jakkur - Yelahanka - Doddballapur
3. Byappanahalli-Jakkur-Yelahanka-Devenahalli-Chickballapur
4. Yeswantpur - Byappanahalli(Benninganahalli) - Anekal - Hosur
5. Tumkur/Nelamangala - Yeswantpur - Byappanahalli(Benninganahalli)
6. Yeswantpur/Yelahanka - Byappanahalli(Benninganahalli) - Whitefield - Malur - Bangarpet
7. Yelahanka - Yeshwantpur - NICE PRR/City - Kengeri - Bidadi-Ramanagara
8. Nelamangala  - Yeswantpur - Kengeri - Bidadi-Ramanagaram 

Would appreciate your feedback on these routes. These still can be optimized?

Regards,

Syed

I will try to make a map for proposed commuter rail along with Metro routes (both phases) - need some time.

Sanjeev - can you please revert about the Bidadi-Anekal "U" route ? Can this be changed or do you still feel it should be included ?

IDS, sad to see your call for volunteers go un-answered. No help from Narayan as well so far. Can you pass on your original schematic file (ppt?). I will try my hand at building on your effort.

Wonder what we need to do to get more people to help :)

Good to know that YH-1 or YH-2 are picking well. Actually one thing can be done about this Yh-1 and YH-2:

Train no. 572 leaves bangalore city at 7:15AM. Hence YH-1 can leave Yeshvantapur around the same time in the morning. Train no. 573 reaches yeshvantapur around 10:30AM. So Hy-1 can be made HB-1 and run to the city. In the evening BH-1 can depart to hosur and return to yeshvantapur as HY-1. Both city and Yeshvantapur will have a local train facility in the morning and evening to/fro Hosur in this way. 

When we do a track wise analysis in and around bangalore city we can see that:

Towards mysore continous expresses leave till 7AM after which we have the fast passenger at 7:40AM. No train after that in the peak hour and track to Bidadi doubled.

Towards Salem after 2677 leaves city at 6:15 there is absoultely no express trains in the peak hour so we can start one passenger from Yeshvantapur and one from city after 572 passenger leaves. 

Track to bangarpet is also free except for few expresses moving here and there-the same is a double track and some more locals can easily be run-One from Yeshvantapur to Whitefield ,another from Bidadi to whitefield and one from Yelahanka to Whitefield. 

Route No. 401 running between Yelahanka and yeshvantapur and route no. 401K between Yelahanka and Kengeri are always crowded inspite of their high frequency-an area to be exploited by railways very well. 

I have given a post about regarding the existing connectivity from certain railway stations by BMTC buses in my post "utilizing existing trains". the same may also be considered. 

Add this information suitably in the report  : As these have major impact on the CRS

On going Railway Projects in and around  Bangalore  Ciy  / New Local Trains announced :

1. In the Railway Budget 2010,  Station up gradation : Chikballapur, Dodballapur, Devanhallai,   Yelahanka,    has been announced. as Adarsha Stations

2. In the Railway Budget 2010, Yesvanthpur Station as Multi Functional Center

3. Doubling of Track between Yesvanthpur to Yelahanka and Yelahanka to K R Puram at the cost of Rs 250 Crore,   Technical Report submitted in 2009, but Tenders are not called till now.

4. Bangalore City( SBC ) & Byappanahalli to be developed as World Class Stations with Binny MillLand and NGEF Land to be provided by State Govt

5. Bangalore City to Nelamangala Passenger Train announced in the Railway Budget 2010 yet to be started.

Fundamentally lack of awareness & information. I struggled to find the timings of the lone YH1 for our trip.

Even after  lack of information from the SWR / IDD,  services of YH-1/ YH-2 & YD-1  has picked up during last month. My observation & inputs from others, specifically Hosur segment is operating  more then 50% capacity ( 250 People using in one direction ) within two months of starting. Even starting timings at Yesvanthpur are very odd, without feeder services &  no publicity, this is really good,  my estimation is that within next 2-3 months Hosur segment will start operating at full capacity.

Similarly YD-1 to Devanhalli has improved now, even though timings are of no use to any  one. 

Take the case of BETL  from Silk board to Hosur elevated road is operating at 10% capacity only even after 6 months of  inauguration & investment of  Rs 700 crore and lot of  publicity  from Company,  State & Center, we are very much comfortable on this performance,  but when it comes to  CRS every one wants to finish the  concept at discussion stage only & now its more then 10 years  discussion is going on????? 

Imagine if this elevated stretch is actually used for Local Train / METRO connecting Chandapur junction on Hosure segment to Silk Board,  this would have changed traffic pattern on Housr road.