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Congestion charging on arterial corridors of Bangalore?

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160 users have liked.
Yes, right away
40% (22 votes)
No, Never
11% (6 votes)
Yes, but after Public Transport is more pervasive
49% (27 votes)
Dont care either way
0% (0 votes)
Total votes: 55

Comments

silkboard's picture

Put an indirect tax?

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89 users have liked.

Dedicated lanes, or magic boxes just for buses. That would be a more effective though indirect tax on private vehicles.

By tax, I assume you mean toll for using the arterial (radial) roads.

idontspam's picture

Vote here now

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93 users have liked.

Not passive annual tax but gantry based instant electronic road pricing. Charge for using arterial or corridor roads.

Example: Bellary road from Hebbal flyover thru CBD all the way to Silkboard flyover and continuing on to BETL. This will become feasible once the corridor becomes signal free, so those going across the road wont be charged. Rs 50 every time your vehicle enters the road or leaves it (Rs. 100 min). Public transport should be exempt (bus, surface rail etc). 

idontspam's picture

Do read this while you vote

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98 users have liked.

Sample reading on congestion pricing courtesy wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congestion_pricing

Continue to vote your option. Public Transport needs incentives. Shouldnt this be one of them?

idontspam's picture

Why 'NO'

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96 users have liked.

It would be interesting to hear some comments from the people who say 'NO' to the poll on the rationale behind the 'NO'

Vasanth's picture

Office Transport is like Public Transport

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 Well, most of the companies provide pickups and drops. This can also be considered as Public Transport since it is pooled one. We know many complaints about BMTC as an excuse to get away from this, atleast office transport should be used for office commute.

People would always complain that  Public Transport is not good to get away from this. But, many are already using them. 

silkboard's picture

Indirect tax better

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Direct tax like this would mean protests and what not. Also, some new project or infrastructure to collect the tax or toll. Indirect taxs or measures - like forcing 1 year worth bus-pass purchase with each car registration, or bus lanes to make car guys struggle even more with congestion - would work better.

Also, congestion tax in Bangalore is different deal from Tax in London. Here, most car owners are well off enough to not mind paying Rs 100 everyday to drive in. Higher tax amount than that would mean protests, courts and what not.

idontspam's picture

Most people prefer congestion charging

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While a massive majority of public voting online prefer to have congestion charging they are divided down the line on waiting for the public transport to acquire more reach and reliability. It can be reasonably assumed almost all who voted in this poll own Personal vehicles.

The conclusions thus far is that it is important to make using personal vehicles more expensive than using public transport as a method of encouraging mass transport

Do please continue to vote.

silkboard's picture

its already expensive

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Using private vehicles is already expensive compared to using PT. Trip to center of the city on my car is 20 Kms x 2 = 40 Kms. At 12 kms per liter, you are talking 3.5 liters of Petrol. That is ~ Rs 170.

On Vajra, this would be Rs 25x2 = Rs 50. So, if I am taking more than 3 people, Car is cheaper. On Big10 (which is what I use many times) cost would be Rs 35+ (involves a change for me, thats why the appx number)

But I rarely think of it the money way. God has been kind on us that we (I assume many are in my boat) are okay taking Rs 120 hit and yet take the car. and we, at least I, do it because of other reasons - main of which is TIME.

Time is money, and that has not been factored in above calculations.

I voted for get Pub Trans bit more usable first, and the congestion pricing.

idontspam's picture

Benefits reiterated

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The approach officials took in Stockholm in their efforts to alleviate traffic congestion. Previously, certain crowded cities had tried to reduce traffic and pollution by instituting variable taxes on cars entering busy districts during peak times. The taxes were highly controversial, so it’s not surprising that before Stockholm instituted a congestion-pricing tax, some 80% of its residents told pollsters they disapproved of the idea.

In 2006 the city government ran a small-scale seven-month trial in one neighborhood, during which officials measured traffic and pollution levels and tested various taxation schemes. The residents of the district were surprised by the effect the program had on their daily lives: Their streets were less busy, it was easier to get places on time, and the air was noticeably fresher. Data backed up these observations, and positive reports about the pilot program abounded. Public opinion flipped, and congestion pricing for the whole city passed in a referendum by 52% to 45%. Since being fully deployed, the program has cut traffic by as much as 50% and air pollution by 14%.

Source harvardbusiness.org, Nov 09

s_yajaman's picture

@SB - a few comments

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 SB - a few comments

a. Not just time.  There is the convenience of not having to wait in the sun, the walk to the bus stop on unpaved footpaths, not knowing when a bus will turn up, maybe sitting maybe standing.  Incremental benefits of the car > incremental cost of taking the car.  (Just curious - at what price differential will you take a bus as a no-brainer?)  There will be some for whom the LHS is >> the RHS and only a car ban will make them take PT!

b. On time itself.  Elapsed time for the bus = time to reach bus stop (5-10mins) + waiting time (5-10 mins) + transit time + walking to destination (5-10 mins).  The transit time itself does not vary by bus/car  - Bangalore traffic ensures that.  We have a serious problem with to and fro bus stop and a bit less with waiting times.

c. No offence - but I am not convinced that congestion charges should come in only after PT improves.  I have lived in a city with possibly one of the best PT systems you can come by and yet people choose to take their cars.  Cars impose massive external costs on public life and they need to pay.  E.g. all these one-ways have been made to make the car/bike user reach faster - but they have made the life of the bus user and pedestrian miserable.  

So

On (a) we need to reduce the LHS and increase RHS.  LHS can be reduced by better bus stops, better coverage, more predictable bus timings, dedicated bus lanes.  RHS can be increased by congestion charges, parking charges, higher petrol prices within Bangalore.   We have to do both together IMHO.  Only when people like you and me take buses will the noise for improvement increase.  The average person has enough on his/her plate and is probably happy just to get any bus.

 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

idontspam's picture

Interesting discussion in the

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Interesting discussion in the middle of this video is about how aspirations of personal vehicle ownership cannot be curtailed by putting a ban on cars. It will be by allowing the people to own cars but by restricting their usage to where it is possible and making it expensive to drive in places where alternatives exit.

idontspam's picture

89% prefer congestion charging

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89% of the people who voted prefer congestion charging in Bangalore. The rest 11% do not want it with nobody being undecided on this issue.  

53% of those who want congestion charging want to wait for Public Transport to be more effective in providing reach and reliability before enabling charging.

This poll has given way for other polls on the front page, so here are the results. If you are still able to get to this poll and you see the voting buttons active you may continue to poll or leave your opinion as a comment.

Vasanth's picture

ORR Congestion Penalizing

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 ORR between Silkboard and Marathalli is filled up with lots of single occupancy vehicles.  There is 3 lane in each direction with 1 service lane. I thought of having 2 lanes for High Occupancy Vehicles such as BMTC bus, company buses and pooled cars (Not less than 3 occcupants in case of car and not less than 5 people in the case of MUVs) and 2 wheelers with 2 people. 

Other vehicles needs to be peenalized with single lane to struggle. Either pool your car, or take the company bus or BMTC. We need minimum of 2 lanes for overtaking of slower buses such as Jantis by Volvos.

silkboard's picture

bus/carpool lane ?

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After the new flyovers etc are done, or even before that, Outer Ring Road needs a bus/carpool lane. Carpool definition is a bit tricky, 3 or more would be more like it.

Enforcement will be tough as always, but wide roads need such token measures.

Vasanth's picture

Exactly SB

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Right SB, otherwise having such a wide road will not serve any purpose if it is not used 'sensibly'. Again, goal is to move the people and not the vehicles. I get so frustated when I see especially single occupancy large MUVs and SUVs.

Vasanth's picture

Same can be done between Kadrenahalli Cross and Bannerghatta Rd

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 During my daily commute to office, especially in the evenings, it takes nearly 1 hour in 500K from BSK 3rd Stg to Silkboard whereas in the mornings it takes only 30-45 minutes.

If I go by car or 2 wheeler, I can take internal roads of Jayanagar and reach in 30-40 minutes maximum.

Here road is only 2 lanes on either sides and no scope for widening and hence the buses are struck in traffic.

There are two parallel ring roads between Kadrenahalli Cross and Bannerghatta Road. One road continues till silkboard and the other ends at Bannerghatta Road after Shopper's stop. These two parallel roads can be utilized to develop have High Occupancy Vehicle lanes between these two stretches by making them one way in each direction and having bus lanes in both the roads.

 

 

Vasanth's picture

SEZ Policy should be modified for parking charges within offices

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SEZs have so many norms to be adhered. Can it be modified to start Parking charges within IT offices to reduce the vehicles?

Rajesh Panjwani's picture

  First I think Mr Reddy

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  First I think Mr Reddy should justify the High Road tax (~13%) they charge in Bangalore. That is also imposed to discourage people from buying private vehicle. Then he should talk about congestion tax. There is little improvement in Road conditions, and every year its the same story after rains.
  Another tax is another way to extract from people for themselves. People are helpless and would have to pay. Just because something is successful in Singapore does not mean it will work for India, there are lot of other factors which make it successful there. Do we have the public transport as good as Singapore? Roads? What about Commute time? What about crime rate? I would not prefer taking a public transport at odd hours in Bangalore.
 There are many ways which we can adopt before thinking about taxing. Ex: In B'glore, all areas are closed on Sundays, Why can't we allocate day of closure for an area. This is working very well in Delhi. Some areas are closed on Monday, some on Tuesday and so on.
 Another way is to change school timing. Here the school timing are very bad(8-9am till 4pm), clash with peak hour morning traffic, if school timing are made a little early, the children will also come home early and have time to do other activities in evening.

 I hope someone from CM'sO reads and tries to evaluate the alternatives.

Rajesh Panjwani's picture

THERE ARE ALTERNATE WAYS . . . STILL

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91 users have liked.

Since I live in Bangalore I would focus the comments to the condition in my City.
First I think Mr Reddy should justify the High Road tax (~13%) they charge in Bangalore. Then he should talk about congestion tax. There is little improvement in Road conditions, and every year its the same story after rains.
Another tax is another way to extract from people for themselves. People are helpless and would have to pay. Just because something is successful in Singapore doesnot mean its good for India, there are lot of other factors which make it successful there. Do we have the public transport as good as Singapore? Roads? What about Commute time? What about crime rate? I would not prefer taking a public transport at odd hours in India.
There are many ways which we can adopt before thinking about taxing. Ex: In B’glore, all areas are closed on Sundays, Why can’t we allocate day of closure for an area. This is working very well in Delhi. Some areas are closed on Monday, some on Tuesday.
Another way is to change school timing. Here the school timing are very bad,(8-9am till 4pm) clash with peak hour morning traffic, if school timing are made a little early, the children will also come home early in evening and have timing to do other activities.

I hope someone from CM'O reads and evaluates the alternative.

idontspam's picture

Positive moves

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 The finance commission’s suggestions include a “parking fees” to be imposed for vehicles parked in front of residences, commercial establishments and multistoried complexes, during the day or night. Delhi has a similar system. Source

Timed parking via meters like on brigade road and investment on deploying dedicated parking inspectors citywide are very important moves. Roads should have to have the sides for parking clearly marked and parking lanes created on that side. In PPP mode the private operator can deploy inspectors & tow vehicles along with O&M for the meters. Increasing parking fees and grading them zonewise  is very important for a PPP move. BBMP has to action this report, this is the first step towards congestion charging. Perimeter charging can be the next step rolled out on select corridors before implementing citywide.

nl.srinivas's picture

Good idea

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Increasing parking fees and grading them zonewise  is very important for a PPP move

Good idea, provided BBMP doesn't try to milk everyone. Probably BBMP can exclude residential areas? Or they can introduce resident permits so that people who live in a residential area don't have to pay the parking fee but those who do not belong to that area have to pay the parking fee. I many of the residential areas adjoing busy streets vehicles parked by those who visit the steets is creating huge problems to the local residents.

 


Ravi_D's picture

Why not residents?

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..... so that people who live in a residential area don't have to pay the parking fee but those who do not belong to that area have to pay the parking fee

Why should it not apply to the residents? Parking is parking, and it is taking up public space for free in this case. If someone is willing to purchase an automobile, he/she should keep it inside a premises they own or rent. If they don't have space inside their premises, let them 'rent' space on the road - aka paying a parking fee.

Now it may be impractical to enforce in a residential area. But that is a different discussion.

srinidhi's picture

visitor permit..

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 Cambridge/Boston has a unique way of addressing this.. I guess most of other US cities also have this..

They have residence permit and visitor permit(max 2 per house) for cars given to all houses/residents in particular zones..and this is once a year and charged..and they make sure that no one else can park on the streets w/o the permits..the fine is 35$

The visitor permit is with residents and they share it with their visitors to display on the cars as they come into their homes..

This makes sure that no unauthorized cars(call centre cabs etc) are parked by goons in front of homes!

Its high time this is introduced atleast in well laid out streets of Blr

Here is a very intersting web page on it..

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/WhereYouLive/StreetsParkingCleaningAndLighting/DG_10025971

idontspam's picture

Parking permits

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 They have residence permit and visitor permit

Yes, Parking permits are in vogue in most cities across the world. For visitors, You will have one parking meter at the end of the street in residential areas. If you hold a monthly parking permit you need to display it while parked on the street. In some cities of europe, It doesnt garuntee you a slot though.

All this requires merciless towing away and parking inspectors. Towing away is an expensive proposition including holding the cars in a lot. So the parking fees must be reasonably hiked and appropriately automated, it cant be a person standing around, blowing whistle, issuing(reusing) tickets effort.

idontspam's picture

Parking fees

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Colliers CBD parking rate survey has been in the news today. Click here for the report and look for India in Page 2.

So while we want the facilities of advanced countries we charge some of the lowest parking fees in the world. Even on PPP basis we should rank super low.

Increasing parking fees should go towards marking parking lanes, dedicated parking inspectors, meter automation, towing equipment etc. Not into unknown coffers which get sucked into space.

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