KR Circle to be Signal free

The extension of this "signal-free" concept with "magic-boxes" will cause serious hardships for pedestrians, unless plans are afoot to include pedestrian welfare at KR circle. Any such construction must accord more priority for pedestrians than movement of vehicles. Facilities for movement of pedestrians must, so far as possible, be on an even surface.

If these factors are borne in mind during the design process, then they can go ahead with building these monsters - & shift attention for another one at Hudson circle - for that is what will most likely happen in a short time after this one is opened !

Here is one disease even if the cure is present, the patient does not want to take it.

I have a suggestion for the future generation of urban planners in India.

Build a city with only roads, flyovers, underpasses, overpasses, magic boxes, and flyovers over flyovers.

No need for foothpaths, parks, civic amenities. Roads roads and more roads! Whopee! Nano is coming, we can have school for mechanics instead of school for urban planners.

That is becasue we need more mechanics because of dents caused by accidents everyday. To hell with civic activists who want public transport!

Subsidise petrol - we do not care about Sunita Narain or any of those environmental nuts....

India is shining! We can have a billion nanos! 

City planning is a challenge when the growth is always overtaking available infrastructure. This may be the case for our city of Bangalore

City roads can be planned only for a given number of vehicle population. Yes it is like kicking the bucket (??) as s_yajaman says. You have to have magic boxes all over. But this is only true in the case of arterial roads. What is appalling is the total neglect of pedestrians in the design loop.

Pedestrians, Cyclists, Disabled and Hawker carts have to be provided for separately by the BBMP. All communities need to be gated. Allowing access at each and every cross road is a luxury which is better avoided. I would like praja to see my latest post on the “Modular road design concept” for land development. Hope it makes some sense. According to me we are headed towards solutions like what I have tried to blog about.

PSA

A nice concept like BMLTA will soon die without serious legislation support or reforms. May be, they are waiting for Regional Governance Act (Abide's draft, or Kasturirangan's report) to take shape. But guys, we are losing time, because this downturn is the perfect opportunity to position our city for the next bubble, got to move fast!

We know the prefect solutions or structure for effective regional governance (refer past discussions, and gyan we got from Prof Ashiwn Mahesh, drafts of Abide's KRGA, Kasturirangan etc).

Are their quick remedies possible to make sure transporation projects are not running ad-hoc or with short term vision?

• Why not merge BMRCL and BMLTA? BMRCL can become the single point owner for Bangalore Urban transportation matters?
• Let BBMP take in BMLTA to create a new transport planner wing? Rolling stock and operations to be managed to bus/train companies, land assets, masterplans and coordination to be owned and managed by BBMP?

Nothing is easy, yep. But we need to do something to build or strengthen "institutions". Good or bad, doesn't matter, but Abide is a short term thing, will die and resurface in new avatar with each election or defection.

PSA,

Signal-Free Magic Boxes can be a solution if traffic is known to be restrained & limited to a certain level by  traffic controls. The effect/s of fitting one will  be known only when proper impact analysis at further junctions has been made & the results indicate a positive benefit, with savings in travel time for road users.

However, BBMP is using Magic boxes to do away with pile-ups at traffic signals at 3-way or 4-way & 5-way junctions to convey the impression of speedy movement with no junction delays at that particular intersection for the mainstream traffic, without consideration of the consequences at the next or several other intersections ahead for the same traffic. Also, they seldom consider the consequences for traffic that use the same intersection, but arrive or proceed in other direction/s. Further, pedestrian facilities are removed to give way to road traffic.

Does'nt all this seem unscientific & haphazard ? At best, this is only a temporary, psychological "victory" with increasing traffic on the streets. Within a few months, the fixture will not suffice & something more would be required - we are seeing this happen again & again.

The real, permanent solution is to improve public transport & find ways to stop the increases in road traffic.

SB,

 Nice to see your comments on transportation lately. You are right. BMLTA is dying the natural death due to the ill-perceived approach to solving city's civic problems. This is a proof that, even the smart brains would fail if the right ingredients and recipe is not followed.

This is a classic example where our philosophy of encourage the authorities to work  rather than working ourselves would have perfectly worked. ABIDe should have been the force to get BMLTA into a planning and regulatory position. Instead ABIDe is working on to do things themselves rather than using BMLTA to get the things done. Even the new services from BMTC should have been coordinated from BMLTA under ABIDe's influence and authority.

Look at the deeper working and influence on city's governance. BMLTA is govt body to be in charge for city's transportation needs. But it doesn't have any authority, influence and charter to implement things that works.

At the same time, quasi-govt body like ABIDe, is given authority and power to basically implement things without even BMLTA in the loop.

Hope we get to meet BMLTA resources and possibly the transport ministry soon to set right this grave anomoly.

With literally all the areas connected to KBS by BMTC and the demand in increase their frequency contributes to more bus traffic on the stretch between Anand Rao Circle and KR Circle. People should come out of direct routes from every locality to KBS. Local routing wit h only the main bus stand in the zone should be connected to KBS. How many of us really wants to go to Majestic daily. BMTC users go there to change the buses. If this can happen with local zones connected directly to distant localities zone centre such as Malleshwaram to Electronic City, it can reduce BMTC traffic in this zone.

Recently HOHO too was added in this stretch with both lines passing from KR Circle - Mysore Bank - KBS -  Maharanis - KR Circle.1111

Earlier, there was no one way in KG Road from Cauvery Bhavan till Marthas/ Ulsoor Gate Policestation. It was distrubuting traffic to south bound areas via 2 routes.  KG Road is very wide, traffic moves fast, but highly fragmented with under 30% utilization till Mysore Bank. If this stretch can be made 2 ways like as it was earlier, it would be far easier.

Other option is to have a stretch of flyover crossing the KR Circle from Maharanis instead of many intermittent flyover at Anand Rao Circle, Maharanis, and underpass at KR Circle. Anyway trees are all removed by BBMP unnecessarily, so something needs to be done which justifies the removal and elimination of bottleneck.

Srivatsa,

      You made a point about city roads and expressways taking the Singapore example. After staying there for the past two years, I would rather opine that Singapore has the same problems as Bangalore!!

      Yes, you made the right points about signal free expressways and loads of signals inside the city. I have always believed that Singapore has had too many signals than what is necessary, most could have been dealt with just roundabouts!

      Take any of the expressways you mentioned, you will notice that the extrances and exits of these expressways clog the outside city roads and the expressways equally, creating massive traffic jams. For example, on PIE during the morning peak hours, you will find a lot of traffic towards Changi. So, as you will witness heavy jams on PIE near Eunos, Pungol, ECP since the exit roads are typically single lane, and the there is a signal on the city roads, immediately after the end of the exit ramp. Thats when being disciplined becomes a problem, since cars maintain a large gap between one another, and do not try to efficiently use the 'huge' road space to the left and right of the cars.

     Bangalore's signal free 'disease' is based on emulating the same model. Since we cannot possibly build expressways cutting across the city, we try to make the arterial roads signal free. Singapore expressways are their arterial roads. Thats why Prof. Ashwin Mahesh ahd the junction elimination plan on Big10 roads and ring roads.

     We have the same problems as Singapore and we are trying the same solutions as Singapore!!  And Yes, we will be getting the same results that Singapore has now got!!

-Srivatsava V
http://srivatsava-vajapeyam.blogspot.com

Thats when being disciplined becomes a problem, since cars maintain a large gap between one another, and do not try to efficiently use the 'huge' road space to the left and right of the cars

Cant disagree more. The space that you save by filling the road like sand in an hourglass will be compensated for in the time it will take to untangle yourself from that mess. Apprearing to have a long queue is less of an issue than getting thru the queue quicker because of efficient clearing in the front.

Relate this to a ticket queue for your favourite service. Do you think the crowd at the front of Adigas counter is faster than a queue at the same? Lanes are far more scientific discoveries than choice of magic box location

SY, IDS,

     Let me correct my self on the discipline part. I didnt intend to say that the 'indiscipline is better'. After reading my comment, I concede I havent put it the right way. When I referred to excess road space, I was intending to mean that the same road (exit/slip road) could actually be made into two car lanes to accomodate more vehicles. A bus/truck may not necessarily fit within such a lane, especially at a curved part of the road, so be it.. Discipline is necessary, but shouldnt be excessive.

ASJ,

Clogging of Singapore's expressway is more a function of number of vehicles - a simple demand and capacity equation and has nothing to do with design (which as SY points out is probably as good as one would get on this planet).

      Thanks for this gyan.. Clogging of Singapore roads is only because of number of vehicles and clogging of Indian roads is only due to bad design. When the number of private vehicles increase in Indian cities, it is because of 'useless, ineffective and unreliable' public transport; whereas the private vehicles surge in Singapore despite having the 'most wonderful, effective and public transport in the world'. Sir, the civic agencies of Bangalore badly needs the services of people like you, not to solve the problems of the city, but to manage the perceptions about them.

SY,

You're right.  Singapore's roads are far more crowded now than 3-4 years back.  I lived there from 2001 to 2007.  This is largely because the new govt follows a more car friendly policy.

        This definitely contradicts what I read in the papers day-in and day-out... I have only read about people complaining about excessive fuel costs, increases in ERP prices, parking prices, increased number of gantries etc.

        And yes, my trip from home to university and back has become cheaper by about 15-20 cents in the past two years. And COE( a licence fee to own a car) fell from about SGD10000 to SGD 2 last year, only because there was absolutely no demand for cars.

-Srivatsava V
http://srivatsava-vajapeyam.blogspot.com

IDS SY and Naveen,

A city’s arterial road (express way or not) network needs to be planned scientifically. The arterial connotation comes from human arteries which have to carry blood without obstruction. The city planner should perhaps be inspired to design arterial roads without blockage. Our bodies normally have (x=6?) x Liters of blood, for a average sized body. If it is less I would be anemic. If it is more I should be periodically donating some of it. Let us be very clear about this aspect, when in the present context of city (ARN) planning.

I appreciate the Hyderabad picture shown by SY and IDS in their comments. One needs to study the site physically to comment meaning fully on the design or the cause of its apparent failure. The picture does however suggest constraints were too many to get at a good design.

IDS:

“Signal free for highways passing through the city are appropriate but not for junctions in the city which have more junctions before and after. I think it is important to understand the traffic studies to come up with this plan and the returns it may produce.”

What I am talking is Arterial roads (Important and or going through and through the city) network. Here each junction (preferably crossing at right angles) is important and deserves a underpass or fly over which ever is more aesthetic. I define a “community” as the one which is enclosed by these arterial roads on 4 sides. These communities should be “Gated” for obvious reasons. I even suggest BDA should close all roads except one opening on to these arterial roads, on each side of these 4.

The second point is that these arterial roads should be one way (Single carriage). The junction design with UP or FO would be a no issue. The turns will be free and at level. The grade separation at actual crossing is however in evitable.

The third point is the road network should be more of a rectangular grid. Circular grid would be a disaster as in New Delhi. It is very easy to get lost in New Delhi if you do not take the right roads in correct sequence. The numbering of buildings is also a nightmare!

In the heart of Bangalore there are one ways. For each one way (Either NS or EW) there should another alternate return path provided. What I am visualizing that in future these one ways are going to be extended further and further. Instead we should be having the master plan cater to this reality as early as possible.

Thanks for the Praja discussions. It is a great help in refining my blog.

PSA

PSA,

You cannot compare the human body's blood streams & blood circulation with city roads & traffic. Though much more complex than city road networks, blood is able to circulate all over the body systematically like clock-work, & without interruption since blood quantity in the body does not keep increasing.

This is quite the opposite with our traffic as volumes keep increasing as & when new infrastructure is added. Some time back, Photoyogi had made an observation that traffic fills up like gas in a room & takes over all spaces irrespective of the size of the room, & this is exactly what happens with traffic. If restraining measures are not in place, road traffic will keep increasing. The logic is simple, since more people will use private vehicles as the conveniences offered by individual transport is, & will always remain far superior to public modes of transport.

Thus, BBMP can continue fixing magic underpasses or flyovers or overhead roads or expressways or whatever, but traffic problems will never be solved unless public transport is accorded special status & made the leader on the streets & it has been ensured & made absolutely certain that it wins every battle with private transport. Hence, ways have to be found to ensure that PT, in whatever form moves the fastest on the streets, or rails. This can only be done with separate infrastructure such as exclusive bus lanes & underpasses for buses, or exclusive tracks, such as those for the Metro or Mono.

Even with such dedicated infrastructure, many cities such as Singapore (discussed above) or Bangkok & New York are still struggling with excessive car populations, but at least the PT users are assured of reaching their destinations in time.

Bluntly put - all the rest about the "Magic" with these "Magic Boxes" will remain a pipe-dream & never solve traffic woes in the city.

...all these uninterrupted roadways being built have to be backed up by strict control in vehicle proliferation. There cannot be expectation of any voluntary sacrifice by people at large. The proof is in the Singapore example of increase in vehicles due to reduction in entitlement fees despite having alternate world class PT systems. But should we wait to put restrictions on vehicles till we get good PT and ped facilities?

PSA - an Internet network system, or a river system (with its tributaries, and man made dams - signals?) - perhaps fits better. But anyway, lets not belabor the point about analogies. (can't find any ready example where streams cross each other - mesh - like roads do).

Types of Networks

As some have already said above, over long term, the city road system needs to have two separate networks.

1. Long haul, high volume, high speed corridors. This would be a mix of "freeways" (no signals, tight access control), and corridors, or expressways (with signals at long intervals, and limited access control). We have heard about NS, EW and Core Inner Ring Road. Outer ring Road upgrade will lead to the beginning of creating this network.
2. The other existing roads of the city form the larger network with signals at regular intervals. This network doesn't need any flyovers or underpasses, whether for cars, or pedestrians.

Network #1 - long haul use

Supporting the need for Network #1 doesn't mean being anti-public-transport. You have to provide quick connectivity for all kinds of vehicles. But there should be measures to discourage private vehicles from using this network for daily commute needs. Ideally, service vehicles, long distnce traffic originating from city (me going to Hassan from Whitefield, you going to Mysore from CV Raman Nagar, etc), and public transport vehicles (rails or buses on these corridors) would be the biggest users of this network.

Network #2 - short/mid hauls

Network #2 fills two needs

1. Short haul, local traffic uses it. It doesn't have to go on Network #2 (to slow it down)
2. Supplement Network #1. Private or public transport vehicles will leave Network #1, and enter Network #2 for last 3-4 kilometers of connectivity. However, such connectivity (Network #1 + #2) can't be guaranteed for all corners of the city.

Traffic in network #2, on a given road (taking a simple picture) has to move like longitudinal waves, sort of like a river with dams at regular intervals so that no single locations floods a lot in case there is a surge in flow. And all the "dams" or zero amplitude points on longitudinal waves is where roads and pedestrians cross each other.

BTRAC etc are for Network #2. You need synchronized signals, dynamic traffic management for extreme situations when there is unexpected surge and any "dams" fill to capacity.

Last point

Just having Network #2, and no Network #1, but only public transport like Metro or Rapid buses is a nice thought, but in my opinion, not practical. Roads re not just for commuting, There are other users of road transport - movement of goods, non-commute long distance traffic, and those who don't have public transport option for commutes. Ideally, you would have to provide public transport before you build a nice network #1 to eliminate the last category mentioned above.

PS: Long comment, typed quickly, pardon the typos.

A tight access control corridor inside the city practically means elevated roads. When infrastructure developers are ready to build elevated roads on no cost basis on high volume roads, what is the problem?

Limited access stretches would mean closing many "tributaries", "closed medians", and building parallel roads in deeper areas (hinterlands of these corridors) so that short haul traffic has an option.

Doing above activity is dangerous if done like BETL. But

• If you draw a long term plan for Network #1,
• and locking it (so that next version of Abide doesn't come in and derail it - PPP mode will provide this sincerity)
• And in the plan, make public transportation priority very clear (LRT, or bus lanes on signal free corridors, world class mode exchange points on each LRT/Bus station)
• And, make people pay real charges for parking, and using these corridors (so that they are encouraged not to use cars for commute)

Essentially, don't do BETL or Yeswantpur elevated tollway like things where the plan at one of the mouths is not clear, and there is no specified public transport facilitation plan (violation of NUTP guideline). But, if BETL was merging nicely into an elevated stretch from Madivala to Brigade Road (as was planned in CTTP), and the full E-city to Brigade road stretch had either dedicated lanes, or zero-toll allowance for Big10 buses, would we not be in business?

Then think a CBD congestion toll booth at Brigade Road mouth of this elevated stretch. Think heavy parking charges inside the city. Think parking complexes at each entry point for this elevated stretch (at E-City, Bommanahalli, Madivala etc). Think local shuttles bringing people to these parking complexes cum Big10 stops.

Is all of above an improbable dream? Instead of frowning at their 'disregard' for money, why not use car users' willingness to pay to build these elevated stretches?

...the magic box gets going next week.

I just passed by KR Circle today & was dismayed to see the visible stretch of Seshadri road from there.

All the large shady trees have been removed & the road now appears something alien !  Let's see how the tree replanting drive by BBMP turns out - it will never be what it had been before, I'm quite certain of that.

The Metro alignment will pass from KR circle along Post office road & reach Mysore bank & turn into KG rd (all underground). Space below Seshadri rd is not being used.

This image had been published in TOI in 1st Dec'07 & had been posted earlier, but some street labelling has been re-done for better understanding.

Seshadri road has been widened to six (or eight ?) lanes. The question is, how will this help when all the other roads that merge here lead to signal lights away from here ? This is nothing but an open invitation for more traffic to use these facilities. The queues at all the various signals (at Vidhana Soudha, Hudson circle, KG Road, etc.) will increase in length & one may have to wait for maybe 5 or 6 changes (!) before his turn comes.

Further, road safety will be compromised unless speed breakers are fitted at various spots to lower speeding, especially at the approaches to where pedestrian crossings have been marked.

Simple segregation for bus lanes, bus-only underpasses with a network of pedestrian passes was all that was required. The signals had already been effective in tempering & filtering traffic passing through this circle-junction.

Since Seshadri road (widened now) can easily accommodate two-way traffic, Nrupathunga rd & PO rd must also be made two-way, else widening of Seshadri rd might seem to have been an unnecessary exercise (Dr.Ambedkar rd is already two-way, as also Cubbon Park rd).

If this were done, then the bi-level might not be enough for 'signal-freeing'. Maybe they are considering a tri-level to make it signal-free for all passes from any road to any other road !

In a few years, if not months, this might become insufficient & they might need some more levels, I guess. There's really no end to this madness.

I travel from Ambedkar Veedhi towards Corportaion every evening. You should see it first hand to believe the mess it is creating at Corportaion Circle already. For the past week or so, I don't have to endure long-waits in front of multi story building just before KR Circle, but wait for signal at the corporation end of Nrupathunga Road is at least twice as long! Nrupathunga road turning out to be a parking lot, more or less.

Ravi

Ref:  praja.in/blog/naveen/2008/03/26/need-brts

As I mentioned long back, the magic boxes seemed like a ray of hope for planning priorities for buses to get past signals without delay & kill the tendency for people to use individual vehicles, but alas ! the city has tried to use them for driving themselves out of the problem. What a fantasy ! No world city has ever been able to build it's way out of traffic problems in this manner.

The more you build, the more serious the problem becomes - this is the experience everywhere overseas & most of them (including US cities now) have been concentrating on improving PTs & discouraging cars, even if PTs cost a lot & run with meagre revenues (or even losses).

And here we are, putting up magic boxes for "all traffic" & simultaneously running air-conditioned volvo buses in the vain hope of capturing all the car-users. This is doomed to failure & will remain a pipe dream, unless someone takes on the car lobbies much more seriously.