Namma Railu in News Again - This time Deccan Herald

 It feels good to see growing presence of Praja as an NGO. Great work!

And it is right in the middle of the second page in DH Bangalore Print edition. Congratulations NammaRailu team! 

get them published in different mainstream papers 

 We actually need to do this in Kannada. We have enough material now to do it. Last time people offered to help we werent ready with material. So calling for volunteers again.

 Just like the Electronics city Industries body which came together for the hosur road flyover, is there / can we make them(whitefield industrial organization ???)

We have BCIC representing the industry, participating so far more as a partner to deploy than as a user org.

We would like volunteers who can take the message to ELCIA, ORRCA etc. Please drop a comment if anybody can liaise. Namma Railu team will support with knowledge, presentations & other materials including attending meetings on this regard if organized

Very good report. Thank you Deccan Herald for carrying it.

Thank you Sanjeev for your sincere efforts on this project. As I type this comment, I know that you and Sathya are busy at yet another meeting with South Western Railway. Managing to do so much despite being busy (work/family), Namma Railu project is an example of quality public service from a couple of dedicated individuals like yourself.

@Naveen, IDS - you are right, we need to get kannada media to spread word on Commuter Rail. We can try reach TV9 perhaps to see if they can carry a report.

 Thanks for the input, Sane and logical voices like yours has to reach the government & politicos. We are doing this on behalf of people like you only.

For on ground campaigning we need volunteers so do reach out when you are back let us take this idea forward.

@ Narayan Vaster,

Its good idea, if some one can co-ordinate for Whitefield.

Whitefield Export Promotion Park Industrial Association  ( WEPPIA ) if we can talk to them throu' some contacts.

Does any one has contacts of WEPPIA???

 

This is on the same lines as Sanjeev's with more emphasis on its feasibility and lesser cost of implementation.

“Here is a suggestion to solve Bangalore's traffic problems and also crop up a series of improvements. Railways as mass rapid transport system can play a very big role in solving this problem.

Am glad Praja has got something so concrete so far !! Great going - lets hope something comes of it

Its hard to imagine such a big budget and project going at one go. Is it possible to scale this - maybe one line, low cost, like a proof of concept and we take in the lessons learnt to scale it up in few steps to a full scale implementation

I can liason with ORCAA, but I dont see much value at this point of time

ssheragu

Hai Syed

I went thru'  the report; can you tell me in which my concerns regarding signal free underpasses are addresssed

many thanks

Srinath Heragu

@Suhas

Proof of Concept  can be linked to  the phase-1 of the Commuter Rail as prposed in the report where increase the frequency on some of the corridors and bring 14 pairs of existing passanger trains running to these suburbs like Bangarpet, Tumkur, Chikballpur, Hosur.

Commuter rail from  Yesvantpur - Hebbal - Banswadi - Belandur - Hosur line covers  most of it  on Outer Ring Road and  take pressure from Anekal / Chandpur / Sarjapur Road.  This will help on reducing traffic and their is no need to do the road widening on ORR.

We need a support from ORCAA,  if Suhas can liason with ORCAA and get support from them, it will give strength for this big  project..

Hope to see support from ORCAA soon.

sanjeev

Our elected  representatives of  Bangalore & its suburbs should put pressure on central govt.  to get the Commuter Rail project approved in the coming railway budget. They are too busy to save their skins,  if they do good public work, then public will support them as case can be seen with Bihar CM Nitish Kumar

Railway has in its possession nearly 90 acres of land at Biyyappanahalli,  this should be used to for benefit of city and state govt should hand over further required land to Railways without further delay. If this is done along with Binny mill land should be provided to railways, 

Then major portion of Bangalore roads need not be taken up for road wideneing, commuter rail can take the pressure off from road trafffic.  Also nearby suburbs will get benefit of excellenet public transport connection to Bangalore city.

 

@IDS,

You are right, concept is proven. Let me rephrase that - I think what we should push for as a first step is a pilot project. All said and done this is a pretty complex task, involving many agencies, needs to be executed really well to utilise its full potential. Our (as in goverments, any goverments) track record in this kind of multi-departmental execution has not been good.

My thinking, and I may be wrong here, is that it may be easier to get a pilot project off the ground in terms of approval for funding, by-in from politicians etc. The biggest advantage is in terms of learning which can be reapplied as we scale. This is the way I think any big project should be undertaken.

I read through the report and I am happy we have gotten so far. I have two questions, I am not too clear about -

Q1. You mention the need for additional dedicated tracks for commuter rail ? Does therailway have land along all the corridors for this or is there land aquision involved.(for laying of the tracks - I understand for RUB/ROB you may need, but that is OK)

Q2. Is there a ballpark number on how much this would cost all inclusive ? For METRO for eg: it is around Rs 180 crore per km. It is important to get this number and have a figure of merit (how much it costs per passenger km) and compare with other modes of transport to push this further.

Sanjeev,

What exactly do you want from ORCAA ? -  Can you spell it out explicitly ? I was once in touch but over the last year have not been involved. I will see if anything can be done

 

Train YH1 already exists which even with a single service is well patronized. YD1 to devanahalli also exists but is so badly timed that we cant even take it for one of our test rides. I dont know if you want to call these pilots. But I fail to understand the reasoning for pilot. What is the pilot expected to prove?

On the other hand if you want it rolled out in phases I agree, maybe start of by taking over the 14 trains already running, then introduce a few more along the YH1 & YD1 routes and & extend to Tumkur. Introduce a few on the DBP route. Of course phases are possible.

 Q1. You mention the need for additional dedicated tracks for commuter rail ? Does therailway have land along all the corridors for this or is there land aquision involved.(for laying of the tracks - I understand for RUB/ROB you may need, but that is OK)

All railway tracks will have stones marking the extent of railway land. You can see it from your train window if you notice, we have done a physical observation along the YH1 route & find there is enough to quadruple in most sections and definitely double. It may be trickier along the Byappanahalli Bangarpet corridor but thats already double tracked. A technical committee needs to go into the exact availability along each segment and this is why a DPR needs to be done. But it can be said with comfort that along the alignment we have proposed land very much available.

Q2. Is there a ballpark number on how much this would cost all inclusive ? For METRO for eg: it is around Rs 180 crore per km. It is important to get this number and have a figure of merit (how much it costs per passenger km) and compare with other modes of transport to push this further

It is well known that the broad guage costs of laying on surface is around 8 crores per kilometer. This kind of costs gives you bandwidth to indluge on better rolling stock with doors, cycle carriages, better equipped stations etc. More than the cost its the benefit of getting 200+ kms of railway service to promote transit oriented development at a super low cost and in very quick time. How long would you have to wait and how much money on acquisition would you have to spend for 200+ kms of metro?

Interstate trains are already being used by commuters for short haul routes all we are asking it for it to be branded, enhanced & run as a short haul service so a reliable and comfortable service can be had at appropriate frequency & with different rolling stock. Also you dont need to compare with metro as the metro serves the BBMP area and this will serve the BMR region where Metro is not allowed to go by the railways because of jurisdictional constraints. HSRL is haiving trouble getting approved because it is going beyond BBMP limits. I would think the entire 200+ kms could be done for around 3000 crores if not less.

Feasibility in terms of cost is not an issue at all. Its a matter of willingness to find a way between IR/SWR & GoK. Especially considering everybody is hung up on comparing this with other forms like metro mono etc. Believe me, with our kind of population, even with all these systems in the next 20 years they will all run full to the brim. Just go to Japan & see. In tokyo all modes run full. for 12 million population the people movers there move 23 million at last count. 200% of the population. Metro + BMTC will carry at the most 50% of our population. Our density in BBMP area is high and the cost of labour is going to increase with high rentals and living costs. We need to spread it to BMR region and what better way than on a people mover like heacy rail? We have to learn lessons from China.

Thanks IDS - your answers cover my question well - at this point that is about what we can find out as motivated citizens

By pilot project, I mean a route with all the bells and whistles you mention, like quality stations with easy interchange and parking wherever neccessary, dedicated double tracks with RUB/ROB, high frequency of service, last mile connectivity and feeder service, ease of information availability. As you may have already mentioned, these are essential to get good utilisation. I think that doing just one track/section first and then scaling will work better (call it phasing if you will)

@kbsyed

I am a little confused on the next step - if a DPR needs to be done by GOK and you are already talking to them, why do you want to rope in ORCAA or other such agencies.

Hi NR Team,

How about the idea of having groups in Facebook \ Orkut \ twitter ?. We all know these are the sites which are mostly used by people which can help us to spread the word about Namma Railu.

As tiny contribution I am planning to send a forward email to all of my contacts available in my gmail ID. I am sure if we send such forward email at least people will get to know in some or otherway. 

if any one has good and standard content to share about Namma Railu in email please share that to me.

Thanks & regards 

Narayan
 

 

 We all know these are the sites which are mostly used by people which can help us to spread the word about Namma Railu

There is a facebook share option in every blog at the bottom of the post. It shows up nicely on your page if you use it. If you are on Twitter, every blog is tweeted you only have to RT. Follow @praja_bangalore

@kbsyed,

I have read through your MEMO - I must it has been extraordinary work you guys have done. But  the task you have taken is extraordinarily challenging as well - it needs co-ordination across diverse departments and cooperation across the political spectrum. Assume magically that GOK is all aligned and CM himself goes with the file to Railway minister, what motivation would the central govt. have to approve it - why would they want this GOK govt. relected ?

Regarding your comment "the question to is, who will do it' I understand. I am coming from what is the best approach that NR can take to get this moving.. Let me ask the question to you - what is it that you are looking for - one big budget approval and one big programm that would at its completion have this complete infrastructure in place or are you targetting it incrementally, a flyover there, a feeder service there, some additional frequency of trains here and incrementally improve to whatever is possible

I get that you are looking at ORRCA  at two levels - 1. Endorsement to the overall NR project 2. Improvements to the approach to the stations near ORR. Let me try and contact them next week. But be forewarned that they are not that cohesive or focussed, and probably may not be very usefull either.

I am a kannadiga who has lived in Mumbai for past 25 years. Mumbai suburban rail system which was initially supported on mail/ express lines(like namma railu now) was languishing similarly for a nodal agency. As we all know railways were initially reluctant for joint ventures even with State Govts, forget about Private Parties. all this changed after a joint venture co was formed namely 'Mumbai Rail Vikas Mahamandal' in which Raiways & State Govt participated, perhaps at 50:50 share(not very sure about ratio). This was done after some changes in Railway Statute. There was a sea change in outlook of suburban rail system after this, and now even World Bank is funding some of projects under Rail Vikas Mandal. It is therefore vital to have a separate body for namma railu with participation frm Raiway/State and BBMP at some point of time, earlier the better. This will give teeth to the movement

I agree with Sayed,   its political who  decides what project to start. 

When GoK doing so much lobby for HSRL with center and railways  for this,  it looks they made all efforts for HSRL at Delhi,  small thing  like  they are not able to meet Railway Board at Delhi to get the simple approval for DPR.

What are the concessions will be given under the name of HSRL, like they did for BIAL???

In long run HSRL will not be viable project as already officla fares  have gone up above RS 250/- at this time, imagine at the time of starting of the HSRL train fares will touch Rs 500???

Guys, I wrote something I myself am not too happy with -

Can somebody draft a good mail - we can use that as a standards template when we write to various organsiations and individuals

I also realised somewhere we need a quick reference - like

370km

potentially touch 3 million people a day  (or whatever)

35% of the Bangalore area(or whatever)

15 crore/km total 3000 crore

............

Anyway, here goest th eletter

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We all are aware of the terrible traffic situation that is there today., specially for folks living a little far away – it needs no discussion.  The METRO will not do much, it will cover only a small fraction of the population (and ironically will not help ORRCA companies, since it comes nowhere near). More flyovers means more cars and more crowding – ….

 Is there a solution ? there is – its a low cost, high impact solution. This is the CRS – commuter rail service. Bangalore has a large percentage covered with railway tracks – if this could be used to run a high frequency local service – it will create a quick, efficient, low cost, high volume alternative mode of transport.  A detailed project report has gone in and listed at least 370km ! of dedicated tracks that can easily be run, covering a good portion of the city population.

 For more information, see a nice write-up

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/122932/ngo-dusts-off-commuter-rail.html

 How far has this project come ? See this MEMO to minister of state for railways

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5082/5270729370_53b244dbf5_b.jpg

 At this stage, what the project really needs is the endorsement and support of various organizations and public citizens. This will create the necessary traction to get it moving. In this regard, the people behind this would like a 15 min slot in the next ORRCA meeting to talk and present about this project and what can ORRCA do to support this.

 Please let me know and I can coordinate the meeting.

 

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 if we can figure out the reasons why HSRL is moving, we can use that to push for a much more sensible and high impact project such as CRS.

Not just HSRL, MMTS the Hyderabad version of our commuter rail is running 120+ services a day also happened because of one man, Chandrababu Naidu. Off the record I have heard all it takes is for somebody to put this as a priority & get it done. 

Namma Railu Foldable Brochure

 

I have got the 2 pager of Namma railu translated in Kannada, its hand written so will scan & put it up. Need somebody who can redraft it using Kannada font in MS Word so that images can be embedded. 

 

Thursday, 10th Feb, 3:00pm,

This is their regular meeting which you guys can have a 15min slot. So probably 2 or max 3 people is sufficient - dont need too many people.

Can somebody make a 10-12 slide presentation - also let me know who will be presenting. If you can put the presentation early, I would (and maybe others too) can review it.

 BMTC carries 4.3 million people

BMTC does not do 160 services a day they do many times that number with more to 4000 buses. The frequency being requested for commuter rail is one every hour approximately for starts. You will notice Mumbai commuter trains today run with less than 5 min headway and carry many more people. For that kind of headway we will need dedicated tracks for commuter rail. When we get to such headways Bengaluru commuter rail will also carry that kind traffic. For that to happen we need transit oriented development to occur over long periods along the CRS corridor & zoning policies to encourage the same.

We should impress ORRCA  with Namma Railu and which all big companies are part of this OARRCA, can you let us know.

Date & time is Ok for me,  what about venu???

 

@ IDS,

Forget the longterm transit oriented development - suppose we were to lay dedicated tracks and have whatever headways that is required today, how many people will take the commuter rail ?

Best way to kill CRS (and we have seen this in our meetings with some of the officials too) is to talk in terms of ridership numbers possible TODAY. CRS can realistically re-shape our city, the promise is in potential to better manage bangalore's growth at VERY reasonable costs.

• those who can't afford housing in city can live beyond CBD, and that would flatten real estate prices all around
• New migrants (people or businesses) to the city don't have to look around or inside Outer Ring Road only
• Cluster based development (as opposed to carpet bombing mode around any road wider than 20 feet) is more managable for planning transportation as well as utilities.
• etc etc.

The question of "rider numbers today" has to be answered with an 8-10 year business case. A promising long term plan that requires only as much starting investment as perhaps 20 new flyovers has to be HIGHER in priority than things like High Speed Rail.

If the govt is not convinced of the potential, it just needs to test waters by floating out an RFI for a PPP (CRS, with some real estate promise over or around far flung stations in 60 km radius of Bangalore today)  and we will see how it goes.

@Menon

setting up meeting with chairman in motion  will be good move,  looking forward for positive things on this front soon. 

We have ,made our best efforts so far  to reach to MoS  K H Muniyyapa with  request in writting to him to take up the issue with Railway Board.

Similarly we  approached Mr Ananth Kumar to take up this issue  with CM / GoK and Railway Minister, but  he does not have time for  state & his area, also political equation at state level r not good.

We have approached Rajiv Chandrashekar & Law Minister Veerappa Moily.                 Now we  have approached Mr G S Basavaraj Mp Tumkur.   Lets see how he will take up the issue at Center.

We have written mails to CM / GoK every two weeks about this project and  mentioned to him nothing happening from state & Center.  Only he forward mail to  other Depts and he is busy in saving his skin.

Other MPs Bangalore North, Bangalore Central and Bangalore Rural are not concerned about the development issues.

As we have seen,  CM & MoS have time to discuss this issue at stage during  Functions and   do not come to gether for meeting on Railway Projects of Karnataka

Its unfortunate sorry state that  28 MLA's representing Bangalore & its suburbs  are not raising theri voise for this project which will have more benefit then any other Transport projects for Bangalore.

... have to be a "bangalore contingent" meeting Railway Board like Mr Menon says above. As "Praja", we should keep to meeting individuals to get them on board and join the "bangalore contingent" that would eventually "push" at formal levels like Railway Board or MoUD.

 In my view, we will need ORRCA to bat for the Yeswantpur-Hosur segment (current YH1 route) which runs behind all the ORRCA campuses. They may not need to get a buy into the TOD vision etc which may be beyond their interest & time but can place a simple request with GoK for an hourly train on this segment serving their catchment as a part of the broader commuter rail initiative. This request does not need extensive presentations and is a simple one to communicate. 

So Sanjeev,

Can you give your contact details. I will let you about Venue and exact time once I get the info.

I think it helps to give the context, even if you are looking for their support for only one line. In that sense it may help to have a general presentation and then come to your specifics. Nothing very elaborate but a quick overview but its upto you

ORRCA companies - I am not very sure, but most of the companies in the technology parks along ORR, like RMZ ecospace, Intel etc are members