Hi,
BMTC has increased daily bus pass fare to 40 now for whose who don't have ID cards. Is this fare enough?
When bangalore itself is suffering from traffic issues public transport should be made cheaper. Here instead they are making it costlier to middle class people. Reason quoted is "Misuse/re-use". So now by selling the pass for 40 they are making the re-use of bus pass legal is it ?
BMTC must look at servicing normal people and not look at making profits by increasing fare. With all other fares already increased BMTC must reduce the bus pass back to 30
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BMTC Daily Pass
The Daily pass in a larger city like Chennai costs only Rs. 30/-.
The ID card issued by the same Govt. of Karnataka to Sen. Citizens is not recognised by BMTC, nor the Voter ID card issued by Central Govt.. They want the public to go to their office with a photo and pay Rs. 25 for a ID card and this is to be repeated every year. What a waste of time, energy and stationary!
Also whereas all types of tickets and passes are eligible for Sr. Citizen concession, the same is denied for this Daily pass only.
K.V.Pathy
Daily Pass
Mr Pathy
Even in Chennai, daily pass can be bought only with valid Id card issued only by MTC for a fee & with photo Id. This is done to prevent misuse of the passes by reselling after part use during the day.
Why photo ID should be
Why photo ID should be issued by BMTC? Why not other cards valid? Election/PAN cards etc..? I remember we brought this issue to BMTC sometime ago. Seems they did not want to have other IDs intentionally.
BMTC Daily Pass
@Naveen,
I go to Chennai often and buy the MTC Gaily pass witout any ID card.
K.V.Pathy
That's Odd
I have a relative in chennai & he tells me that daily pass purchase for MTC buses needs an MTC issued Id card.
Their web page also confirms this with flwg :
"Commuters who like to get the Travel As you Please Ticket Card (weekly / Monthly) shall obtain an Identity Card at MTC's Sales Counters by paying Rs.5/-. The Travel As you Please Ticket Card will be issued on production of this Identity Card only".
http://www.mtcbus.org/
(Click on Concession Fares /Travel As You)
Daily Pass
@Naveen,
As your quote indicates ID (costing only Rs.5) is reqd. for weekly/monthly pass, not for Daily pass which I have been using whenever I visit Chennai.
K.V.Pathy
Different places, different rules
I stand corrected - MTC insists on their own Id for weekly /monthly passes whereas BMTC insists on their own Id for daily passes.
As mentioned previously, I think the Id was made mandatory due to cases of rampant cheating by resale of passes. This had also been discussed here on praja previously, & is mentioned on their webpage here.
"To eliminate unauthorised resale of its Day passes and to ensure prompt and proper disbursal of additional benefits to the Day pass holders, BMTC has made the use of an ID card to mandatory for availing its Day pass travel facilities at Rs. 35/-".
ID for BMTC
The point is why BMTC should use this to collect more from pass holders by insisting on an additional ID card instead of honouring the ID cards issued by Central and Karnataka Govt.
And why this should be priced as Rs.25/year for Daily pass and Rs.100/3yrs for monthly pass when MTC can do without such ID for Daily pass and charge only Rs.5/- for other passes
.As we see many people who tried to use BMTC attracted by Bus Days are getting disillusioned and reverting back to personal transport. Such additional harassment by BMTC will further reduce their popularity.
K.V.Pathy
2 Merc Buses @ Re 1 probably from this Saturday
There was an interview in DNA with BMTC Chairman. As per him, 2 Mercedes buses will be introduced this Saturday @ Re 1 as promotional fare.
Fares will be much higher than Volvos.
Bus may look like this as posted on automobile website:
:www.carwale.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/mercedes-benz-bus-business-expansion.jpg
Here is the link:
www.dnaindia.com/bangalore/interview_op-onto-merc-bus-and-pay-just-re1-for-a-ride_1427850
WIFI will be introduced on Volvos.
What we want is Express Buses with minimum stops as compared to present Kai-Thoridalli-Nilluve (stop when shown hand) service of Vajras.
What is the logic
Now this is really confusing. All this while BMTC has been moaning about the cost of Volvo buses and how it is not remunerative. One clear learning from this Volvo experiment is that the well designed comfortable buses are great and will attract the IT crowd. On the other hand, buses like Volvo which cost 5 times that of our regular buses are financially a flawed model, if BMTC is looking at this from a purely financial perspective. I think there is some value in the decongestion in peak hours and offset pollution which do not show up in the financial models.
The key requirements in a bus are - good engineering, powerful engine, comfortable seats, capacity for fast embarkation, disembarkation, driving comfort, safety. AC itself is optional, in my view.
So why are these guys now buying a Merc bus which costs more and has higher fares? I am not in much of a mood to pay higher than Volvo fares. Why cannot we push these international manufacturers to make a cheaper, Indian bus with the features we demand?
Competition amonst bus makers good
The key requirements in a bus are - good engineering, powerful engine, comfortable seats, capacity for fast embarkation, disembarkation, driving comfort, safety. AC itself is optional, in my view.
So why are these guys now buying a Merc bus which costs more and has higher fares? I am not in much of a mood to pay higher than Volvo fares. Why cannot we push these international manufacturers to make a cheaper, Indian bus with the features we demand?
Indian makers like Ashok Leyland & Tatas have already attempted making better buses, but so far, they have not been able to produce buses that are as good as the volvos. Good quality always comes at a price !
I think the introduction of Merc buses is a step in the right direction. There had been criticism when volvos were introduced, but now, they have become common place in bangalore. Many cities are now trying to introduce them after their success in bangalore. Eventually, with competiton (between bus makers such as Merc, Volvo, Tata, Ashok Leyland, etc), purchase costs for buses may also come down, leading to more such better quality buses in city services, & this augurs well for better PT services.
Competition good, but...
Competition is all well and good, but I think a problem we are having here is that these big automakers are coming and selling their global product without much modifications in India. My vision is that we get to a point where some of the tin box buses we have today are out and we have better engineered buses across the segment (not just luxury).
The Volvos are great for long distance travel and we can see the market automatically moving in that direction. If you look at PT however, every few months one hears complaints about the cost of running Volvo services. But then, everybody keeps buying these buses either because JNNURM funds are available or somebody is willing to plonk down money for them. Does that make logical sense? Just take this instance of the Merc buses. Should we not have told Merc that Volvo has got the market in India. But we are looking for alternatives. Can you come up with a cheaper model with these specs and we will start buying yours. That then forces Volvo to innovate and we have a healthy competition going. But here, we are buying a more expensive Merc bus and sending Volvo the message to add on to their features?!
On the price, take my example. Even though my wife and I now work in the same general area, it is much cheaper to come together by car than a Volvo. We need good quality PT which is comfortable while being cheaper than the current price. For that, the market has to demand that Merc and Volvo get started on building buses that are cheaper than their current product - which will involve some trade-offs, but that is okay.
I am not surprised at Al and TATA not being able to build buses matching Volvos. Good engineering and design has a collective knowledge element which these companies lack. With their years of experience making good engineering designs, it will be some time before TATA and AL can match that design wisdom.
City PTs are social services
Sanjay,
You do have a point - modifications to suit Indian mkts will happen only when the order books show healthy numbers. As of now, volvo buses have been somewhat customised (at least, their interiors). Merc wouldn't do it for the measly numbers they sell. Only when numbers increase will they be forced to modify for local use.
Another thought - All PT systems are more service than business, & it's not surprising to periodically hear that volvos are expensive & losing money. Wait till the metro becomes operational, & we'll start hearing about their losses too. The only way they can make ends meet is through real estate commercialization, the way it is being done in Delhi & elsewhere abroad.
Aren't Merc Buses cheaper than Volvo?
According to this article http://www.mybangalore.co... , Merc Buses cost 65L each. This is compared to the 75L+ cost for a Volvo. If that is the case, I don't see why BMTC would charge a higher ticket rate for them.
Another source www.business-standard.com/india/news/mercedes-plans-to-enter-city-bus-market-in-india/397023/ that mention the 65L price tags for Mercs.
So maybe they think people will pay more because of the luxury image spillover from the car market. I doubt BMTC will be able to get away with it - it's probably just wishful thinking right now.
THE MERCS LOOK CHEAPER TOO
If you see the picture in the link posted by Vasanth http://www.carwale.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/mercedes-benz-bus-business-expansion.jpg , the Merc looks cheaper than the Volvos.
As an example, notice the external rear view mirrors. Volvos have electric mirrors which can be adjusted by the driver from inside. The Mercs seems to have simpler mirrors similar to ones found in ordinary buses. It is vey unlikely that this bus is more expensive than the Volvos.
city bus characteristics
As long as the bus has low floor, durable door mechanism(especially the rubber beadings), delivers more than 280 horses with a turn radius of around 10 mtrs, the brand shouldnt really matter. Ideally it should deliver more torque at lower RPM which is where the Marcopolos struggle. At higher RPM's they can boost with Turbo and may never be used in city conditions.
BMTC needs to start putting a standard tech spec for city bus instead of going by just the cost. Till now I have never been able to figure out the tech specs for the Marcopolo's if anybody has it please share with me. I know the B7R's are V6 with 290 horses with a turn radius variously quoted between 9.25 & 10.25
A healthy brand mix will anyway prevent vendor lock in. One vendor cannot keep up with a growing country demands anyway. Naveen happened to quiz his BMTC friends on the sidelines of the BMRC meet and apparently, BS4 standards has further delayed bus supplies from the vendors.
Seats are all modified though by BMTC
Earlier version of Volvos were directly imported and had very comfy seats. Now, they get empty bus and seats are built by local vendor Harita.
These seats are not as comfy as the original ones and the legroom is very little. For our long travel like 1 hr+ to ITPL and EC, these are not so comfy as compared to original ones which are still running on some of 335Es and 333Ps.
BMTC is planning to introduce wifi in Volvos, where is the room to hold the laptops. It may be helpful to browse on cellphones.
Samething will happen with Mercs too. Initial buses will be very comfy since they may be factory fully built and may be given by Merc free of cost (like a sample). Later on it will be the same story.
It would be nice if they introduce non-stop coaches with limited seats (not city buses)/ even mini buses from KBS - ITPL and KBS - EC on a trial basis. Only problem is engines of coaches are not built for city driving, rather highway driving. But it will be attractive enough to draw car driving folks.
Mega Loot by BMTC
BMTC now plans to purchase Mercs buses after Volvo incurred loss of 3 crores last year. Why BMTC is planning for high end buses and not "More low cost buses". Instead of buying 1 hi-fi bus why can't we buy 10 normal buses. Obviously rush and comfort will come if 10 buses run in 5 min interval instead of One Volvo/Merc (with A/c). Other than A/c there is no comfort in Volvo.Nowadays it is always fully crowded, more cost so people still use own vehicle. Only good thing is it is better/cheaper than auto.
BMTC instead of thinking common man it is increased pass to 40, purchase Volvo/Merc bus - increase cost. After some days we will see 1 common bus running and 5 hi-fi bus plying on specific route (Eg-EC for now). Is that what BMTC want ? It is forcing people slowly to use min 50 and then 100 rupees per day.
dail pass
sounds ridiculous to purchase an id card at rs 25 for a dail pass of 40. Persons passing through Bangalore do really need this? In Hyderabad, no need of any identtity. In case BMTC NEEDS any identity , then they can verify a voter id card and put its serialnumber on the daily pass
dinesh
hyd
Senior Citizen " BMTC Definition"
BMTC seems to have its own definition for senior citizens...to offer any kind of discount. Their definition says 65 years or above. All other government departments including railways describes it as above 60 years. I doubt if they actually want to offer any discounts to senior citizens travelling on their buses...
Best Regards,
Rakesh Roy