'Soft' measures to promote Kannada - the time is now?

Nice to see you learning and speaking in Kannada. It is a very good initiative. There is a website called www.padakali.com which teaches one word per day. 

Main thing is whoever who migrates should be willing to learn to communicate easily  which is found in very minimum number of people.

ssheragu,

"...knowledge of Kannada would be be highly benefecial / essential for Praja members, especially from other states, for implementing our views / ideas..."

This statement of yours clearly marks the people as "Ours and Yours". Where is the question of yours and ours here? This is precisely a major factor which rattles people and prevent them from learning another language.

SB's experience lays bare as to why learning the local language is so important and beneficial. Wish proponents of "Compulsory Kannada" campaigns had taken means to help people learn the language without demarcating them as yours and ours or taking imposing stances.

Let us treat language as language, not make it a pride issue. Every language is beautiful and is pathway to rich cultural heritage of the land and its people. Kannada language is no different.

On the other hand, I also resent and have not understood the real reasons for people who stay at place for long and still couldn't pickup the local language. It should be the golden opportunity to learn a language as it is spoken and used all around you. No book or classroom can help what streets and interactions with people can teach. It all requires a bit of willingness to learn it.

As SB stated, it is only a win win situation. Nothing to lose, its all gains only.

I think if there was money in teaching Kannada, there would be some already doing it in the private sector. On the other hand if the Karnataka government gets the idea to have all their files in Kannada that would be a derogative step. Think of state government writing to the center in Kannada and them in Hindi in turn!

Learning the language is simply a question of incentives. Most people choose the path of least resistance, and it takes effort to learn a language. In Bangalore, one can get away without Kannada most of the time. That is the simple explanation for why people do not learn.  It is nice that knowing the local language opens up the culture etc., but seriously, how mnay people would get motivated by that?

I started learning when I had to go and interact with some local govt officials. Speaking kannada always helps the interaction.  Like SB, I also noticed how everybody (auto drivers, vegetable vendors, govt officials) becomes a bit more considerate, even if I mangle the language here and there.

The problem is that very often, people reply to you in Hindi (generally) when they notice that you are speaking poor Kannada or groping for words. Unfortunately, the only way to improve skills is to practise.  So you have to persevere a little bit.

Incentives do work. Private corporations and corporates can incentivise the learning efforts.

At my work place, every year, a campaign for Health Checkup is taken up with a promise of gift awards to lucky few in a drawing. The bumper draw is "5K".

Believe me it works. if one analyzes it, employee is only required to do little on his/her part. The heavy lifting is done by the company bearing the cost for all the health checkups, prize money etc. But results are phenomenal. It is win win situation for both. Employee would get a preview into his health indicators and there is more possibility for taking measures to any anomaly or concern. Employer get to see its employees healthy, less absenteeism and more working days.

People talk on the internaet using english alphabets. Like I talk to my friend an expert, while on BBO [Bridge Base Online] site using kannada.

              enry? en madta eiddira? - Hello what are u doing?

               ellidira?- Where r u?

etc. Same is true for people from other latin American countries. Nothing new. I feel it is best to leave it to people as far as language is concerned. They will communicate if they have to!

Murali sir,

What has Rajyotsava to do with teaching Kannada to people whose mother toungue is not kannada in this thread? Home Minister R Ashok  arranged an Elefent for son's college for the occation. With such ministers Rajyotsava looses any significance if at all it did have. 

I maitain people learn if need be. Right now if our children dont learn English  the window for learning for a living / knowledge is reduced.

Examples of hard approaches that do more harm than good can be accessed through the links provided below:
http://praja.in/en/bangalore/discuss/2008/04/kannada-license-plate-numbers-increase
http://praja.in/en/blog/murali772/2010/12/27/mis-use-kannada-registrar-societies
http://praja.in/en/blog/murali772/2010/05/17/right-response-english

And, culture and language being closely interlinked, the examples cited by me earlier here also have their relevance.

@ ERR - I am most pleasantly surprised by a Ramachandran (as different from a 'Ramachandra') taking up the Kannada cause so fervently. However, like English enriches itself by adding new words from other languages regularly into its lexicon, it would be good if Kannada can also follow suit, rather than invent new terms for words like security, check-in, etc. I recall the time when a Technical director of the now closed NGEF pursued the setting up of a separate wing in the company for coining new words/ phrases for technical terms, ending up with some convoluted multi-word Kannada term for the ordinary 'screw' - not surprising NGEF landed up where it eventually did.

as silkboard has stated, silkborad has correctly understood me and others have misunderstood me;

when I said ours, I did not men that people from karnataka or kannadigas versus others, but praja members and the powers that be who implement our views;

many thanks

Srinath Heragu

@ssheragu,

Post your clarification, I stand corrected.

BTW, There has been never an issue with  Kannada as the language of communication with officials in our efforts (at least issues on which I have worked), though I am also conversant in Kannada. We have been able to communicate ideas, solutions to the 'Powers' in government.  We haven't come across any difficulty on that front. Thsi is beacuse, many on Praja are well versed with conversational Kannada as well as in administrative level.

But no disagreements on need to learn Kannada, language of the state where one live and work. Actually I encourage my children to learn as many language as possible. Currently my daughter is taking courses in 'Spanish - Honors Course' in High School, as 'Spanish' is the 2nd most spoken language in US. There is no escape from that.

As we can see, despite all the good intentions, this topic is such that it just veers off.

All talk here is with good intentions - nobody has a monopoly on that

harsh criticism of anything remotely preceivable as hard measure is also not right.

That may be your view. But, I don't believe in beating around the bush. When I see a wrong, I like to call it wrong. And, it is good to see highly respected people like Mr Suresh Kumar and Dr Chidananda Murthy say so too.

Whether the NEGF translations were convoluted multi words in local language or not, whether NGEF went bust due to those translations or not

And, it will help if you could avoid such distortions of what I stated

Any ideas on what more soft measures would be possible? Any at all from your side?

What else was this?

And, to appreciate fully what is soft, you need to identify what is hard too. You may have a problem there, but not me.

Another approach to deliver learning material would be use of social media specially Youtube for video sessions, FB, twitter for publicity, links, information etc.

People are using Youtubr for education purposes.

http://www.khanacademy.org/video/algebra--linear-equations-4?playlist=Algebra

Good going, here is my suggestion, These measures can be rolled out by KDA under the banner KFI (Kannada For Immigrants). KFI will rollout TOSK as one of its certifications. Additionally, KFI should promote atleast 1 pvt kannada training school in every ward, more the merrier, each accredited by KFI. 

IDS avare - if there is a word I hate in this context, it is immigrant.  I am still in my own country - so let us avoid words like immigrant or alien.  Why not call it Kannada promotion Council or something like that?

SFI (Swedish for immigrants). Would aliens be all right? Lol! 

After reading this, I now feel we should be meeting the Kannada and culture minister, Sri Govind M Karjol, rather than any body else.

The writer has made a mountain out of what is essentially a molehill as the article portrays. Though undesirable, go anywhere across the world and you would find such fiefdoms & reactions & our city or state is no different. I have had the opportunity to be exposed to working with far more kinds of people & cultures almost all through my working life – much more than most have. Having traveled extensively all over the world, I can also say that such unnecessary spats are common in many, many countries, not to mention those within our own country.

Bangalore has certainly been highly accommodative to all outsiders more than any other city – probably the most anywhere in the world. Whilst most Kannadigas are simple  by nature & are not easily drawn into quarrels or arguments, there is probably a minority that does this in situations – far smaller a sample than most other ethnicities, I’m quite certain – this is my personal opinion. And there may be some here in disagreement with this – it’s their choice.

Coming to the article itself, there are many questions:

1) The writer confesses that he didn’t know the local language. Then, how does he know what the version of the accusers was ? Without making any attempt to investigate by asking them politely, how can he be certain that the girl was innocent ?

2) Even if the girl were innocent, & he wished to help her, why did he start by yelling at them in a language alien to them ? Was this not a ridiculous start for an intervention to help ? This was in a public bus & not in some remote corner – not knowing the local language, couldn’t he have asked others to intervene, always being polite ?

3) It is unbelievable that all the other passengers were mute spectators when a girl was being slapped in a bus – what were the other passengers doing ? Did every other passenger turn his head away ?

4) When there are already increasing divisions between the rich & the poor making people uncomfortable, further complicated by various ethnicities trying to live together as it is in Bangalore more than anywhere else, was it not irresponsible on the writer’s part to start this additional spat by yelling in a language alien to them whilst trying to help the girl ?

5) How are so many tens of thousands of traders & shopkeepers all over the city & especially in Chamarajpet, Chikpet, Balepet & Tharagapet where Jains, Marvadis, Gujratis, Rajasthanis, etc (all outsiders) have no problems operating ? How then is this writer claiming discrimination ? It seems obvious that he himself was at fault by yelling in a language alien to them & thus, disrespecting them.

6) The writer says that he “will not talk about the many wonderful things ‘outsiders’ are doing to make this city a better place to live in”. Have the locals not done anything at all to make the city what it is today ? How is he conveniently forgetting the contributions of Narayan Murthy, who started it all or Nandan Nilekani & going back to Visveswaraya ?  He does not seem to want to be bothered about his own city’s history or respecting it's own denizens, even whilst publishing something out in the open !

7) Further, the writer states that it was “perfectly reasonable” to be expected to learn the local language, yet he says that it should be a matter of choice! It’s thus clear that he has made no attempt to know at least enough of the local language for working & this was the obvious reason why they seem to have gotten enraged.

All in all, the writer’s story seems to have many holes in it & some arrogance too.

Some examples that I have observed that would enrage locals: Delhites saying that they get parathas throughout the night in delhi, but such food is not available in Bangalore throughout the night; outsiders claiming that Chennai, Delhi, Mumbai, Kolkata, etc are cheaper and better places to live in than Bangalore; those overly fond of hindi movies complaining about the lack of extensiveness in variety of shows in the city – such negative comments would obviously enrage most locals.

Above all, why is TOI publishing such stupid reports ? Do they not have so many examples of good experiences of outsiders, as is clear on so many blogs across the city & on praja ?

I have many good experiences being a outsider, but sometimes, in many day to day issues, and you want to fight wrong things, fight corruption, and don't know the local language, and that's the point, you hit local-outsider abuses or fights.

Same happened with me many times, when I try to stop an auto and ask to go for hire to some place and he doesn't want to go by meter. That moment, if I try telling him that I will complain, and as soon as I try to note down his number or just try to read it, they just get so irritated and start abusing and majorly start this local-outsider fight. I never want to go into that kind of fight at all, because that's not the issue at all.

Hi, this is Shrabonti from TOI.

First of all, I'd like to thank everyone who has engaged with what I wrote and thinks it's worthy of being debated at this forum.

There was some confusion about my gender; to clarify, I'm a woman in my early 30s and an asst editor with TOI.

I would like to answer some questions raised by the user Naveen. I think your doubts are very valid, and deserve to be taken seriously.

Before that, I would say that this statement is a little high-handed:

"Bangalore has certainly been highly accommodative to all outsiders more than any other city – probably the most anywhere in the world."

This suggests that Bangalore has bestowed a favour upon less privileged people who have moved here to work by being "accomodative". I would beg to point out that simple laws of economics govern urban migration and that as much as Bangalore has accomodated others, it (and the people living in the city) have benefited in financial and other ways from its growth (think schools, colleges, culture, urban institutions, job prospects) -- which are open to everyone, not just migrants.

1) The writer confesses that he didn’t know the local language. Then, how does he know what the version of the accusers was ? Without making any attempt to investigate by asking them politely, how can he be certain that the girl was innocent ?

I may not speak the local language with any amount of fluency, but I understand enough to make sense of everyday conversation. I was not certain the girl was innocent, but you see, they couldn't be certain she was a thief either. As I pointed out in my piece, no actual crime happened. As a woman, I felt enraged to see two men slapping a girl around and I reacted to protect her.

2) Even if the girl were innocent, & he wished to help her, why did he start by yelling at them in a language alien to them ? Was this not a ridiculous start for an intervention to help ? This was in a public bus & not in some remote corner – not knowing the local language, couldn’t he have asked others to intervene, always being polite ?

No one intervened. A college girl next to me looked distressed but said 'these things happen'.

As for the language I used, in an agitated state of mind I could not use a language I was not fluent in.

3) It is unbelievable that all the other passengers were mute spectators when a girl was being slapped in a bus – what were the other passengers doing ? Did every other passenger turn his head away ?

Yes, essentially. Some -- a few women among them -- later turned to me and started blaming me for protecting her.

4) When there are already increasing divisions between the rich & the poor making people uncomfortable, further complicated by various ethnicities trying to live together as it is in Bangalore more than anywhere else, was it not irresponsible on the writer’s part to start this additional spat by yelling in a language alien to them whilst trying to help the girl ?

I could not sit quietly while a young girl was being slapped by two burly men. There was no intention to insult anyone. I reacted as a human being who doesn't like violence.

5) How are so many tens of thousands of traders & shopkeepers all over the city & especially in Chamarajpet, Chikpet, Balepet & Tharagapet where Jains, Marvadis, Gujratis, Rajasthanis, etc (all outsiders) have no problems operating ? How then is this writer claiming discrimination ? It seems obvious that he himself was at fault by yelling in a language alien to them & thus, disrespecting them.

There was no disrespect intended. As for the tradesmen, they evidently need to learn the language to operate on a day to day basis. In my line of work, it's not imperative for me to do so.

I would like people to put themselves in the shoes of migrants to Bangalore for a minute here -- imagine you are transferred to, say, Calcutta. Can you be 100% certain you would feel the need to learn the local language if you can get by without knowing it? Please be honest.

Learning the local language because you want to, because you like it, because you would like a deeper connection with locals is one thing, but learning it to 'pay the price' of living in a certain city is another, right?

6) The writer says that he “will not talk about the many wonderful things ‘outsiders’ are doing to make this city a better place to live in”. Have the locals not done anything at all to make the city what it is today ? How is he conveniently forgetting the contributions of Narayan Murthy, who started it all or Nandan Nilekani & going back to Visveswaraya ?  He does not seem to want to be bothered about his own city’s history or respecting it's own denizens, even whilst publishing something out in the open !

No one is denying or forgetting anything that Kannadigas have done for Bangalore. It was simply not relevant to mention that here.

7) Further, the writer states that it was “perfectly reasonable” to be expected to learn the local language, yet he says that it should be a matter of choice! It’s thus clear that he has made no attempt to know at least enough of the local language for working & this was the obvious reason why they seem to have gotten enraged.

I stand by it that it is a matter of choice and whether I choose to do so or not should not be reason enough for anyone to bully or insult me.

Thank you for letting me use this forum to elaborate my viewpoint.

Shrabonti

found this on my FB timeline http://zenhabits.net/how-to-learn-a-language-in-90-days/