Entropy on roads - examples

Thank you for starting the thread...

Turn lanes for right turns are an important concept in road design. IRC has done lipservice to this concept in their specs

IRC 86-1983: Minimum widths of median at intersections to accomplish various purposes should be as follows : (i) Pedestrian refuge, 1.2 m; (ii) Median lane for protection of vehicle making right turn, 4,0 m but 7.5 m is recommended;
(iii) 9 to 12 metre is required to protect vehicles crossing at grade.

So turn lanes should be made a feature on Bangalore streets. I hoope the junction redesign projects are taking this into account.

Couldn't help look at some of my archives... All from public domain, and credits go to the original authors!

This one is funny, not from Bangalore, but would it be any different here?

This is a fairly long video - a pretty good travelogue - Old Madras Road / KR Puram Jam

A good way to analyze traffic patterns, in my mind. See this birds-eye-view from one our junctions.

From an unknown source (chain email):

--------------------------

Over these last few years of living in Bangalore , I have slowly grown to like the jams, which this city provides in abundance.    

These jams do build your patience and character. Is it a coincidence that India 's most patient cricketers, Dravid and Kumble, hail from this city of jams? (Dravid is even nicknamed "Jammy"). Does it tell you something?  Sri Sri Ravishankar…does he get his daily dose of spiritual inspiration while in a jam?? And will I also get a halo after a few more years of this "character building"?? There are, I am sure, thousands of future Anands stuck in the Adugodis and Anand Rao circles, who are plotting their moves against future Kramniks… those poor little Kramniks stand no chance. And if you see a professor-like guy prancing around the Palace road jam, you can deduce that a postulate in Physics has just been proved. 

A few days back, I had a thought - If we can have reviews of movies, which occupy only a few hours of our life in a month, why not reviews of traffic jams, which takes up significant hours of our day?? So here is my review of some of Bangalore 's famous and not-so-famous jams(in no particular order).  

But before that, a general comment -  As they say, the taste of food in a restaurant is dependent on the ambience ; similarly, the way I see jams, cozy inside the office shuttle or public transport, is different from the way the owner of the swank new SUV sees it. (btw, if you are the owner of the swank new SUV, don't run me down).  

1. The Hosur Road Jam - Unarguably, the mother of all jams. We (ex-) Infoscions are proud of being (once) associated with a great company. We are equally proud of contributing in no small extent to this jam. This jam gives a great glimpse of the Other India - colorful music-blaring interstate buses, garment factory workers, highway trucks, smoke spewing lorries and such. Provides ample food for thought for socialist minds. (Rating: ***1/2)  

2. The jams around K'mangala/Forum mall - Definitely the best jams in town. PYTs (Pretty young things), fancy cars, and fancy restaurants; this has it all. But you can't afford any of those. Never mind!! Your sadistic brain can take pleasure in the fact that the guy in the fancy car next to you is cruising around for a parking space, feasting his eyes on the PYTs , while his family is having dinner in one of the fancy restaurants. (Rating: ****1/2)  

3. The KG Road jam - To be experienced in the evenings before a long weekend. Every auto/taxi in town seems to be stuck while going towards the City railway station - your hair stands on end, you start sweating, the heart beats faster, and you get the rush that a Michael Schumachaer gets on his last lap. And just as the auto moves, a movie show ends and a few hundred more vehicles pour out… Which was the train that hooted just now?? (Rating: ***1/2)  

4. The Jayanagar jam - The puzzle-lovers jam; Jayanagar is maze of bylanes, one-way streets, no right-turns, no left-turns, traffic signals and whatnot. It is an establised fact that Point A to point B, in Jayanagar, can be reached in 6436 distinct ways. But whichever way you take, you are left with a hollow feeling that another route had a better and bigger jam? (Rating: **1/2)  

5. The jams around Marathahalli/ Whitefield - The IT professional' s dream jam; As she sits in the office shuttle looking at other office buses, she can make her career plans. A typical evening in this jam goes thus:  Voice from Company A bus : "Any J2EE developers in your bus?". Three guys from Company B bus respond "Yeah" and get down. By the time, the bus crosses the Marathahalli bridge, the first guy is hired as a J2EE developer. The second guy, who didn't know what J2EE meant, is hired as a project manager and the third guy is rejected as he realised late that he has already worked for Company A last year.  (Rating: ****)  

6. The Airport Road jam - Similar in taste and character like the Koramangala jam but has socialist twist. This jam treats the rich businessman, who will later travel business class on Jet, the same as a poor programmer, who had unusually come to office early in the morning, 3 months back, to buy one of those cheap airline tickets. (Rating ***)  

7. The BTM 7th Main x 7 Cross jam - Close to my home, so close to my heart. But alas, the spoilsports at BDA finished the flyover at the Jayadeva circle and brought an end to this jam. But for a couple of years, this jam used to give me pure joy as vehicles of all types created a tangle in the small bylanes of BTM layout. The BDA is now planning a new flyover at the Udupi Garden junction; so there is still hope (Rating ***1/2).  

We jam lovers - currently this club consists of only me - have petitioned the government to protect and preserve traffic jams as a cultural asset of Bangalore . Just so that traffic jams are not endangered in the future, we have these suggestions:  

1. Build more flyovers - Flyovers do not reduce jams. They just transfer it to the next junction. And in the 2 years that it takes to build them, you are assured of some joyous jams. I am drooling...  

2. No public buses - If everybody goes by buses, where will our culture go?  

3. Make Tata's 1-Lakh car cheaper by making it tax free - Imagine every two wheeler replaced by a car...The prospects are mouth-watering. 

 ( Author Unknown ) 

 

I agree when you say that a lot could be improved by picking some low hanging fruits.

However all these so called "low hanging" fruits can only be acheived by enforcement or best by educating people. Its is only when people start behaving responsibly that the situation can improve.  Finally i guess it all boils down to attitude.

Having said so, it is in this area that the authorities must focus their energy.

For example, I still do not understand why the authorities have not noticed one of the root causes of bangalore's traffic woes. The licencing authority at the RTO. Every day several hundreds get a licence to drive and most of them get it through a driving school.

how many times have we not seen a training school car honk unnecessarily or flout some basic driving rules. These are the guys who get around getting a licence probably because the RTO officials who grant the licence have been "taken care of".

If only getting a licence could have been based on stringent tests which test the drivers understanding of traffic rules rather than the payment made to the inspector things probably could move towards the better.

Well making a small change by driving responsibly ourselves, without giving in to the lure of breaking a rule just because the vehicle on our side did it, will go a long way. 

Finally, i guess one has to take a small step towards a journey of a thousand miles.

-Prasad

One good example to start with would be cubbon road. It is 2 and half lanes each way. The half lane being the outermost which nobody uses. East bound there are 2 right turns, one at Kamaraj rd jn two at Manipal jn. West bound there are 3 right turns one at Kamaraj rd. two at infantry rd cross, three at central street. If half a lane was taken on the innermost lane on both sides from Minsk sq to Manipal jn. dedicated right turn lane can be carved into this extended median for the above jns. for uninterrupted traffic flow 

We have to get the message that the current Licensing system is a failure.

Short term we can take out a praja rally and get the news out that we are dissatisfied. We will need placards and people at MG park for half a day (saturday/sunday) and invite media to draw attention. We can submit petition to RTO and request them to revamp their system.

Medium term We can offer to be a part of any comittee they set up or provide material we have thru ASJ to help RTO customize the testing process.

The video on this blogpost  shows the state of footpath on CMH road. When there is practically no space for pedestrians to walk on the foot paths, what else can we expect? Of course there are also a lot of parked vehicles as well. Watch the video.

-Shastri

ssheragu

so much has been said about IRC; I have not gone thru' IRC; but I am sure that IRC will have well laid guidlines for roads, pedestrian paths, bus stops etc.

my suggestion would be that one of us well versed in this should dipslay here (on Praja) guidelines itemwise, say for example, bus stops, pedestrian paths, medians etc. and then we can implement these one by one (step by step, say bus stops first, followed by pedestrian paths& subsequnetly others), on roads (major roads tostart with and subsequently all roads); 

in this manner implementation of well laid guidslines, rules of IRC will be complete

also I request Praja admin to display details of Praja members locality wise, so that Praja members in Indira Nagar, RT Nagar  cn meet frequently and implement views of Praja

Srinath Heragu

We will have to ask IRC and get clearance from them to publish it . Let me send some mais and check before we start uploading stuff.

The other way to do this in the meanwhile is to prioritize some things we want changed (like medians, markings etc). I have already pasted in one of the posts what is said about medians in IRC 86. That paragraph is all there is available. We can look for median specs in the specs ASJ has suggested and prepare the modified specs for that. We will need a median thread to capture all that is relevant. 

Just so you know myself and TS have access to some of the codes only. Sudhir may have access to more. 

ASJ - My assumption is the same as yours that they are only guidelines and not audited to be followed to the T. If this is clarified true then we dont have to actually go back to IRC with our recommendations we can directly convince local authorities to include them in tenders as long as basic IRC criteria is not changed in our specs 

SB:

In no particular order, some other items that came to my mind... 

 

• IRC types cover all types of roads. Our primary concern here is city traffic - so let us bias such a study with conditions in Bangalore in mind (what a living example!)
• City Street Types (arterial, residential.. etc) and minumum carriageway requirements
• Pedestrian walkways (over the road)
• Turn zones (Left / Right / U Turns)
• Speed Brakers
• Types of medians
• Minimum offsets and pathway into / out of adjascent buildings
• Allowances for slow / man powered traffic such as bicycles
• Surface drainage
• Storm water drainage
• Police refuge
• Road Junctions
• Minimum requirements for Fly overs - such as no police can man a junction atop a fly over :)
• Minimum requirements for Magic Boxes
• Pedestrian only zoning - reasons and requirements
• Entry / Exit from high traffic areas into adjoining roads (such as from bus shelters / depots / heavy industry)

Thanks,

 

Ravi 

Specs are equally important for what is laid below, and on the sides of, the road. Following is the posting I had made in 'savekoramangala' yahoogroup in April,'06, regarding the work on 80ft road, funded under some World Bank scheme. Now, if a work under a World Bank scheme didn't follow any code in these aspects, imagine the regular BBMP/ PWD work. We certainly have a long way to go.

At the meeting with the expert panel, I had specifically brought up the matter of codes for the various types (and widths) of roads, detailing clearly the specifications for providing the various service lines. Apparently, the BMP is blank on this aspect, with even the experts not having applied their minds to it. As far as the present lot of repairs are concerned, there's nothing to be done now, though, I would have preferred their doing a minimal 'motorabilising' job now, and, after drawing up the codes, doing a thorough job. For want of a proper set of codes, the service line ductings have not been provided properly, and you are landing up with the kind of diggings that was front-paged in yesterday's papers. These are inevitable, the difference this time being that you will need pneumatic drills to cut through the half metre of compacted aggregates, as compared to the earlier pick-axe usage. They have supposedly laid some ductings, but I am fairly certain they are not usable. All in all, a lot of money seems to have gone down the drain. What I would now suggest is to request Mr R K Misra to get the BMP to engage proper consultants to draw up these codes in a time-bound manner, and insist that all future jobs are carried out in accordance with them.

Muralidhar Rao

TS, MR, SB, others

Can we start somewhere. My vote is for footpaths. If we have more people, sub-groups can start of 3 or 4 issues.

I totally agree, civic staff have no clue. Many PMC staff in Pune have been to trips abroad, how many have returned to implement one project which can be called half decent.

In Pune these guys talk (my personal experience) about wide footways with cycle lanes on them (ekdam europe jaisa karenge) and then end up making footpaths not even 3 feet wide.

Specs, standards are a good place to start. In reality we will have to adapt to what is practically possible. But as specs have safety first approach in built in them, at least we will be able to stop lillogical and irrational or unsafe putting up of medians.

Juste yesterday someone wrote to me, in Pune they want to remove a pedestrian crossing and install a divider - why - because motor vehicles are using it for taking U turns - this is exactly where a staggered pedestrian crossing can be used with great effect (but our decision makers behave and think as if such a concept does not exist).

ASJ

To illustrate all this, consider this picture of the prestigious FM Cariappa road(FMC Rd) that I luckily found in K's foto stream. This picture captures entropy in action. As is seen in that image, all vehicles in lanes 3 & 4 are at an angle to the lane markers. Down stream FMC Rd is a 4 lane one way right of way that runs approximately in the west-east direction. This is a picture of an arm of the sirsi circle flyover pouring into the west end of the FMC Rd. Even within the confines of a road, at any point in time each vehicle has its own immediate goal. These differing goals create conflict and hence entropy. In this picture, there might be many people coming in from lane 4 who want to access properties next to lane 1. That is a perfectly legitimate goal. But unfortunately it can create conflicts with other vehicles. see cars 'k' and 'r'. Since many of these goals are legitimate, entropy due to conflicting goals cannot be eliminated. the fundamental question then is, is there any structure to help people make this maneuver systematically? To see this, lets see the basic set up of this junction: The f/o is approximately 1 bus + 1 auto wide. Road to the south of the f/o(S) and the north road(N) are about two buses wide. Towards the east the road becomes a 4 lane one way road. So at this junction 2+2+1 lanes merge into 4 lanes. 5 lanes merging into 4 lanes is a fairly well understood and solved problem, world over. The first source of problem is that the f/o is too wide to be a single lane row and too narrow to be two lane row. Next, bcoz of abrupt geometry at the end of the f/o, all vehicles exiting the f/o are forced to perform erratic maneuvers. The problem is not that vehicles want to cut at that point but the problem is that they are forced to cut at a point where all sorts of free cutting is allowed. At this point, vehicles in lane 2 are free to cut-left into lane 3 (see auto straddling 2&3). To compound entropy, two lanes of vehicles from N are pinched into 4 at exactly the same point. That is, the area marked in red, acts as exit lane for f/o traffic and forces two lanes on the north side to cut and allows one lane from the south side to cut. Apart from geometry, lane marking is also poor and fails to act as a guide for negotiating this junction systematically. What is somebody like the car 'b' and the bike in front it supposed to do? The best drivers trained in any part of the world would be forced to perform erratic maneuvers at this junction. What can the hapless blue car and the bike do? I will follow up with a possible solution in a subsequent post. If anybody has other ideas please chime in.

the lines i have drawn are not as smooth as i would like them to be, but i hope the basic idea that i am trying to point out is clear: Geometry-nice smooth lines- looks nice, but is primarily a consequence of thought and planning and operates more fundamentally than as a decorative artifact. When compared to cost of the f/o, this would have cost not much more. This is as good an example as any of functionality yielding to form. If something is out of form in nature(and roads built by man are as much a part of nature as hives built by bees), it is fairly conclusive and evidential to conclude that it is not functional. form is the temple where the god of functionality resides.

TS,

Brilliant stuff. Its such fundamentals that our planners habitually forget (and we all pay the price).

Do send this to Municipal Authority (I will hate to see this effort wasted).

Cheers,

ASJ

Often when faced with above entropies, one bog standard reason for failure and helplessness given to us or presumed by many is 'blame it on our population'.

India is second largest producer of 2 wheelers (behind China), sell ~ 7 million units a year, expected to sell 10 million / year by 2010. But - India has only 31 two-wheelers per 1000 citizens (2004) http://www.automobileindia.com/two-wheelers/statistics/sales.html

 

Even when vehicular population of Delhi and Mumbai double in 10 years time, the density is likely to be much lower than Western countries.

 

That a car (even a Nano is 5 feet x 10 feet) takes space of 2-3 two bikes, means in countries like UK there is much greater competition per square inch.

 

In short, the blame it on population theory is useless and does not contribute to entropy.

 

Entropy on our roads is caused by everything else (and other factors including driver training) that has been brought up through examples in this thread.

 

ASJ

Unless otherwise specified, source is Wiki

doc that is an interesting set of data. I actually prefer that KA's population agglomerates and density increases. High density is very good. Very efficient in terms of energy and resource utilization. Only problem is attitude. People hate people. As Seinfeld says, people, they are the worst. :)

Most of the roads in Bangalore are so narrow. It was probably just built to handle 2 wheelers and bicycles. These roads are being used by cars today. Many cars are parked on either sides of these narrow lanes.

Very few localities like Jayanagar can handle the car traffic. If we travel from Jayanagar towards Hanumanthnagar,Bank Colony, NR Colony, Tyagarajnagar we can clearly notice. Localities like Srinagar, Thyagarajnagar, NRColony and Hanumanthnagar is densly populated with many small houses with very narrow roads whereas localities like Jayanagar is not as densly populated as these localities, also roads are wider. It is easier to drive car in Jayanagar and becomes a night mare near Thyagarajnagar, Srinagar. It is comfortable to drive 2 wheelers in these high density areas. This makes us to think cycles could be even better than 2 wheelers for these kind of roads and the road can handle much more higher density of people movement.

submitted by ssheragu

yesterday I came across a news item in DH that Mr. Bidari, Polce Commissioner, is planning to introduce / suggest a legislation that for any new building within a radius of 5 Kms around Vidhana Soudha, NOC should be obtained from Police. This way Plice will ensure that if the building were to worsen the traffic in that area, the building will not be allowed to come up. or they will make sure that the building follows the regulation for parking space. set back etc. so that it does not spoil the traffic or serenity in that area; on repeated questioning, he buckled & reduced the radius from 5 Kms to 3 Kms and said that it will apply only to big buildings.

actually Mr.Bidari is correct; in fact he should ensure that this applies not only for a radius of 5 Kms around Vidhana Soudha, but a radius of 50 Kms around Vidhana Soudha (that is the whole of Bangalore) and it applies for all buildings, residential or commercial, however small or big

is it possible for any Praja member to get his contact number or e-mail so that we can get in touch with him; alternately is it possible for Praja Transportation WG to arrange a meeting with him

we Praja should grab this opportunity

Thanks

Srinath Heragu

One way to deal with this is to make it transparent. That is provide information about traffic violations and the associated penalty to all the people. And provide a means for general public to provide feedback about individual constables and inspectors. You can always use technology and some sort of statistics to get a clear picture about the inspectors. Design incentives based on that. Create awareness about the existence of such a means. People behave the way they are measured and rewarded :-). Now the question is whether somebody like Mr. sood is empowered to make such changes. If I am not mistaken in the US (i think in california) they have a feedback form which needs to be filled by the person who is receiving a ticket.

Not sure but suspect this is ture in most Indian cities, including Bangalore. It is caertainly the case in pune. Often, lanes are not marked, but when they are, I have noted they are too wide (almost 10 feet or over 3 meters - see pics in posts by TS above). In contrast, in UK, lane width is 2.5meters.

The point I am making is that we create lanes wide enough to allow a car and two wheeler (or even a rick) to sit side by side at junctions. The moment the lights turn green, honking begins and chaos ensues as the race to move in front of the adjacent vehicle within the lane begins.

ASJ

Yes, more signage, more lane markings

Lane markings have been unscientific irregular and generally useless across the city. No 2 lanes on the road are the same or even matching to any specs. They are marked with snaking borders. Take the corridor from MG Road to hebbal flyover. Lane markings are absent in most stretches and where they exist they do not have any aim or signage to indicate why they exist. If they do come up they will be rangoli only. It has been this way since BTRAC started and I see no change. Its like as though the engineers do not know how to hold a measuring tape from one lane to its adjacent.

Not sure how much money was spent on the project. B-TRAC did some good. More or less consistent signage showed up where there was none. Newer pedestrian crossing cum speed breakers came up around the city (was it a B-TRAC thing?). Much argued about median dividers certainly brought some sense of order on quite a few roads (and some headaches too). Cameras, control center... quite a few new items and ideas.

Not trying to say everything went well. We all know this could all be done much better with some more effort, planning, coordination and better execution control.

But for starters, the baseline has gone up a notch for the next phase. It us okay to have smaller ROI on the first go. But would be criminal not to do much better on the next.

So, here is my dream: As end of one campaign approaches, BTP gets busy with 'lessons learned' sessions and planning the next phase. Apart from internal debates, BTP completes the feedback loop by consulting all stakeholders - and especially concerned citizens.

Come on BTP. Don't disappoint us here.

 Some improvements I have seen in Bangalore over 3 years.  

a. More roads have lanes marked.  Even roads in residential areas have lanes marked and edges marked.  However no arrows at junctions.  Lane widths also need some rationalization.

b. Dividers have come up on busy stretches.

c. Signage - marginal.  Still not enough signage on directions.

d. Adherence to lights - improved significantly.  When people stop at Arekere Gate at 8:00 a.m. you know things have improved.  

e. Honking at lights when the lights turn green has reduced a fair bit.  Now it's mostly the yellow boards.  Is this because of BTRAC - I don't know.

f. Good amount of crackdown on drunken driving.  Again when I see cops checking at 1:00 a.m. you know they are at least trying hard.

I hope they continue and crackdown hard on yellowboards - who seem to go from bad to worse.

Srivathsa

B-TRAC did some good...

some improvements are noticeable...

Some improvements I have seen in Bangalore...

Let me rephrase... BTRAC efforts towards Road engineering and Geometry has been a failure. Apart from some paint on the roads where roads have already been built evenly, you will notice where the road widths are uneven the painters, have been equally confused and lost.

But then, who is to enforce these ? The same old woman with a wig who will take bribes & fudge figures !

How about BMLTA? Or some coordination committee? Or a private consultant like E&Y etc who can advise not just the process but also follow thru with implementation of the same. The payment should be tied to the success of the new young lady they will create.

All traffic officers upto the rank of Assistant Sub-Inspector getting black berry and bluetooth-supported printers today, city traffic police will move into a paperless regime of enforcement.

Click here for full text of the article.

 @TM: Simple things innit? The only hope is to make a detailed drawings for each case and take it to the AE and work long and hard on the details. There is no other way. The generic instructions arent getting thru. 

 Things have changed in 2 years

I agree, on the pedestrian side, the raised ped crossings are showing up in more places. The audible beeps @ signals helps everybody (not just visually impaired) that the ped signal is working. I just hope when they increase the ped green man sign from 12 to 20 secs on wide roads they include a flashing green man for 5-8 seconds to indicate those beginning to cross to not start the crossing. I am never able to guess how long the sign has been on before I got there and get stuck in the middle of the road. It can be dangerous for older peds as my parents found out. But sidewalks are coming up only around some localities. Most of Bangalore has only got drain covers to protect drains from clogging, not to aid people to walk.

On the traffic side I have been able to spot more people stopping at intersections & giving way to the main road traffic, or when turning right to wait for a break in oncoming traffic, the roundabouts are still messy though. Lanes are adhered to if there is less traffic but at signals & crowded times the lane markers are totally ignored. Traffic is a lot organized than 3 years ago but roads have gone bad to negate the improvement. I am see lesser 2 wheelers. Seems to have gone down a bit cant be too sure.

In order to make the stretch passenger-friendly, the police are planning not to allow parking on both sides of the road.

What does this mean for pedestrians ? Who are these passengers ? Are they bus passengers ? With almost non-existent sidewalks along the road & no parked vehicles, their hardships will worsen since moving vehicles will leave them exposed to more danger & even less room than if there were vehicles parked.

I think they should increase the width of sidewalks substantially first before allowing any traffic on the road.

Great that Delhi's pedestrian facilities are being thought of. When will bangalore do it ? Hopefully, the arrival of Metro will bring about a shift in thinking & attention shifts away from cars & roads & flyovers.