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Kannada license plate numbers on the increase?

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EnforcementTraffic

I am sure I will get my fair share of brickbats for this one but here goes...

Of late I have seen an increase in the number of vehicles with Kannada number plates. This is illegal per the provision of rule-50, sub-rule-2 and proviso-D of Central Motor Vehicle Rules, 1989, which specifically states that letters on vehicle number plate should be in English and numerals in Arabic. The Government of India in a notification (No.SO. 444E dated June 12, 1989) issued under Section-41 (6) of the Motor Vehicle Act , 1988, also made these rules mandatory.

A private vehicle is allowed to move around anywhere in the country and therefore has to have a regn. plate in a script that most people can read quickly in the case of an accident.

Why do people do this? Imagine if a car with a Tamil/Malayalam/Oriya number plate is involved in a hit and run accident. How do we note down the number quickly?

Murali sir had an interesting anecdote. He took a photograph of once such car and showed it to the police. After a few days the police get back and tell him that this belonged to a Qualis and not to the car in the picture.

I think there are better ways to propagate a language than by violating a sensible law.

Srivathsa

Comments

adiraj_09's picture

Yes,I agree with you

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Yes,I agree with you YAJMAN.

There seems to be a utter violation of law by putting up Kannada No Plates.

This does not stand only for private vehicles, but even government vehicles.

This begins from our own BMTC...I have seen many BMTC buses having Kannada No Plates.

I am not against Kannada, but as you mentioned in the above message, it becomes very difficult for anybody to note down the number of the vehicle in an emergency.

Even our traffic police dont seem to be too much bothered because they fear a backlash from pro-kannada groups and even an Elected Government does not dare to implement this rule strictly.

Auto drivers take pride in displaying their Pro-Kannada image by putting up Kannada boards, of-course they are again influenced by pro-kannada groups, why would they want their vehicle do be damaged when there is a riot happening just because they dont have an Kannada no plate...

But again, the probable solution could be a strict implementation of the Rule to get the boards changed to English (Remember some years ago there was big back lash from the public when RTO directed all the number plates of Private vehicles should have a background of white and all Transport vehicles should have a yellow background)

But ultimately, thats Rule was striclty implemented and everybody had to change the numberplate accordingly.

So, this shows that, if Govt or the RTO strong enough in their decision to implement a new rule, it can be done and every body have to follow the rule.

Good Lesson Learnt !!

 

Thanks

Adi

 

santsub's picture

Solution and revenue and law all - together - with number plates

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I guess Karnataka can be the pioneer here. Can they start standardizing registration plates in Karnataka. THey can design it with a karnataka logo and make it attractive other than printing it all in English and Hindu Arabic Numerals. IF RTOs start selling them then there will be no violations... guess what if some one moves to the state permanently then they have to change the plates to Karnataka plates .. that way everything can be formalized.

 I agree with theposts I have seen some oriya plates and tamil plates too in blore... its time to clean up...

 

ssheragu's picture

I am fully in agreement

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I am fully in agreement with you
tsubba's picture

plates

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agree with the need for nation-wide standards. number plates are not the place for promoting language. they should go for simpler ideas. like simply calling BWSSB neer, BESCOM vidyut, BBMP paalike, BDA pradhikara, BMTC bengaLoor saarige. what i mean is the english names and abbreviations should be dropped. or the english abbreviations must be like BBMP and not like BDA/BWSSB. 12 main 5 cross: ೧೨ ಮುಖ್ಯ, ೫ ಅಡ್ಡ 12 mukhya, 5 adda both in kannada text and transliterated english text. my basic point is everybody should share the burden of cosmopolitanism. thats cool idea santsub. mysore kaaldaari.
santsub's picture

Number plates..

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Further expanding on the Standardized plates - RTO can also make - plates to support forest conservation (some proceedings go to forest conservation) or support other public concerned issues by making customized plates (which are standardized) Part of these like say 5 bucks each goes to the forest conservation fund or city improvement or state funds for farmers etc..

 They can also brand it Karnataka - "Sandalwood State" :)

 

murali772's picture

Kannada mis-use menace

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The incident referred to by Srivatsa is detailed below: I have repeatedly been writing (letters to editors of leading dailies) about the mis-use of the venerated Kannada language. The following instance highlights the menace graphically.

One evening, towards late February last year, I was just behind a SANTRO ZING at the Egipura junction on the Intermediate ring road (linking Koramangala and Indiranagar). Noticing that the car's number plates were totally (and only) in Kannada, I took a picture, got a print, and sent it (by regd post) to the Police Commissioner, under the RTI act, requesting to know a) why no action has been taken so far to check such open and flagrant violation of the MV act? b) What action is proposed now?

A few weeks later, a Traffic Inspector came over personally to hand over a letter stating that, as per the records, the number KA 02 Z 6934 is registered in the name of the owner of a TOYOTA QUALIS, whereas my picture showed a SANTRO ZING. Very clearly the user of the SANTRO ZING was upto some mischief, to put it just mildly, highlighting the point that I had been making all along, since not even half the police force is able to read the Kannada numerals readily.

Given the callous way in which the police is treating this whole issue, all that a terrorist needs to do today is to steal a car, select a number arbitrarily, make out the plates in Kannada, fix a yellow & red flag for added effect, load it with explosives, and drive it straight into the Vidhan Soudha. He may even be accorded a VVIP status. Plainly the Kannada number plate and the red & yellow flags have become passports to any kind of nefarious activity that you may want to pursue.

Though the Inspector agreed with me readily on the above point of view, the Bangalore Police seem content trying to track just the offending vehicle, as evidenced by the contents of a subsequent letter addressed to me by the then DCP, Traffic (E), the larger issue being totally lost on them. So much so, even over a year after my bringing this grave anomaly to their attention, I see vehicles with just Kannada number plates, written in all kinds of styles, moving about freely on the roads, without any care in the world. Not surprisingly, the Police have not been able to track the specific vehicle either, since very likely the owner has since switched to some other number and is onto some other mischief.

And, when I narrated this experience in a Yahoogroup, of which I am a member, a lady added that half the autos with Kannada number plates have Maharashtra, Tamilnadu or Kerala registration numbers, and she invariably found their meters tampered with. In the first place, these autos have no business to be operating in Karnataka, and on top of it all, they are up to all kinds of nefarious activities.

By turning a blind eye to all these, the Bangalore Police is putting the lives of the law-abiding citizens at grave risk.

Muralidhar Rao

Muralidhar Rao
silkboard's picture

eye opener

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Murali sir's story was an eye opener, rather a real example of what some of us (regardless of our roots and language affiliation) fear - that, there are ways in which this red/gold euphoria can be misused.

tsubba's picture

scary

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scary. actually, there was newspaper report too sometimeback which said that half the police cannot read kannada numerals.
santsub's picture

Its time to get it straightened

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Like I said before - The govt has to ask all vehicle owners to get plates from RTO and make good plates (I mean design wise and authenticate it) and make sure that the owners register them at the RTO every year. Its not only a win win situation for the govt but also law  abiding citizens who can atleast be assured that we have some law in place.. All crooks will be nailed in this process.

muni_blr's picture

A possible solution: Have some Electronic verification

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I have been thinking about this for a while. 

Cant we use some sort of bar code or similar sort of technology which will enable the vehicles to have unique ID numbers and the traffic authorities for that matter can verify instantly the owneship/ model/ make of the vehicle by flashing at the vehicle.

 This can come in very handy and can be used by corporates/ commercial establishments wherin you dont have to put stickers to identify vehicles. Just register your number plate and the security guards will flash at your number plate to identify the vehicle and let go.

Is  it feasible.

 

Hurry Home

The Sage

blrsri's picture

RFID is a solution

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There is a electronic solution for the problem. Its the RFID. U can read more on it on the wiki for starters..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFID

The cost is the limiting thing now..however this might not be in time to come!

shas3n's picture

ERP

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Singapore uses a similar concept to charge vehicles in congestion zones. I am not sure if it is RFID but looks like it is. Here is a wiki article on that.

I would assume that it might not be cost effective for Indian conditions but it might be given the number of vehicles on road. Somebody needs to do a feasibility study.

-Shastri

-Shastri

blrsri's picture

RFID cost

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The current average cost of an RFID tag is 10Rs and that of a reader is 20,000-40,000 Rs.. Plans are underway to bring this further down..

So deploying this in Bangalore should not be difficult, however these should not be limited to blr vehicles only..sizable number of vehicles in blr are from outside of blr inside kar and outside too..so it depends how we implment this!

tsubba's picture

electronic solutions

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but if kannada numerals are tough on human eyes, imagine bar-code!! perhaps, electronics will lead to good enforcement on the police side, but they will still need some sort of number plates, to make it comprehensive.
blrsri's picture

RFID more than barcodes

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- RFID tags have memory in them and can store lot of data

- they need not have a power source of themselves but use the readers rf signals for responding back

what do cops ask us as they catch us..insurance/dl/emmission..most of this data can be in the tag..including information to control access of road...

'oops you have entered MG road more than two times for the day..you cant enter again or pay 200Rs' :P

On a serious note, hit and run cases like what SB reported on Mysore road can be easily caught using electronic methods..

We will still need numbers displayed on vehicles anyways

murali772's picture

attempting to meet Lokayukta

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What I had posted, if you had noticed, was extracted from a letter I had sent to the Lokayukta, requesting him to issue orders to the police to enforce the M V Act strictly. Unfortunately, the office of the Lokayukta, for all its show of meticulousness, misplaced the letter, and even with my pursuing the matter using RTI, I have not got a proper response. Now, seeing the tremendous response from you all, I am attempting to meet Justice Hegde tomorrow itself. Will keep you all posted of the outcome.

Muralidhar Rao

Muralidhar Rao
silkboard's picture

Wish we had GPS/RFID in every vehicle!?

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Yes Tarle, bar codes or modern wireless version of them (RFIDs), number plates would still be required. But use of electronic in enforcement is a pretty neat idea by itself! RFID/GPS based solutions are already in use for inventory/fleet management in various industries, traffic enforcement would be a nice application area. Think GPS/RFID in every vehicle, and imagine:

- Park whever you like. GPS helps the city government mail you a monthly parking bill. You can build a parking toll system without spending any money on street furniture or walking cops

- Resolving hit and run type cases (or accident insurance claims).

- Speed monitoring. Drive over 80 on road X, and you get a ticket in email

I know, all this may not be possible in a democratic society like ours, because privacy would be a big concern around GPS (I can be tracked without my consent). But hey, if you don't want to be tracked via GPS in your private vehicle, consider taking public transport instead. BTW, do you guys know that by carrying mobile phones around, we are sort of (I mean can be, it may be illegal right now) being tracked by our mobile service providers!?

Technology often helps leapforg infrastructure constraints. You never know, may be this is the solution for our traffic enforcement mess that seems so hard to solve right now. 

tsubba's picture

sure

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automated data collection and automated analysis will go a long way. i have a few questions for all this to happen, what is the spatial and temporal resolution needed? and what are the error rates? dont you need data like vehicle xxxx was at (x+dx,y+dy) at t+dt for that to be useful for evidentiary and prosecutional work? lawyers will rip the dx,dy and dt apart. how do you know that the vehicle was at x+dx and not x+x1+dx2? dt: unless fairly small useless for evidenciary purposes. think bikes and autos and cars which are constantly changing lanes. and if dt is too small will it scale computationally? i know rfid is passive, but if you want to track a particular vehicle, then you need to know history before t=0 and after it. even for parking, somewhere there has to be loop right? this has to run for atleast 10-12 hours a day continuously. i am sure somebody or the other will complain, if we using the satellites up for issuing parking tickets. i may be wrong, just wondering if it is possible.
navshot's picture

And tamper-proof...

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What if there is identity theft? It better be tamper proof too. It might be best for the car manufacturers to provide this as a standard fitment, otherwise it would be open for a lot of manipulation. Something like a ROM which has vehicle details tied to the engine/chasis numbers.

I think RFID has technologically improved a lot recently to such an extent that complete stock movement in/out of some of the big stores in US (like Wal*Mart) is tracked using RFID.

-- navshot
santsub's picture

answer...to disciplined adn courteous driving

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Link license to their vehicle registration. that way violations are recorded and stored - I know its easirer said than done.. but when we are cleaning things up it becomes important to handle that too.... I guess tying this to insurance and when tickets are issued their premiums going up will be another way to bring in discipline among motorists its the fear factor that will help in disciplining which will bring in some harmony to driving... but everything has to loose the corruption bootha! that prevails in our system :)

tsubba's picture

enforcement & sp sangliana

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also, 100% enforcement will flood the system (post,courts, etc etc...) even if it was technologically possible. the beauty of the system is in controlling the system by sampling just about the right number of instances and asynchronously. the greatness of human mind is in that it works parallely and asynchronously. they can still go for electronics. so that they can do rapid surveys of congestion, traffic movement etc. and say there is a trigger by a human eye, then they can use to track. (unit 5 kaaling control room, kaaling control room, hello hello KA-53 xxxx track maaDi. kantrol room to unit 5, gaaDi lock maaDidivi, track aagtide. then SP sangliana comes from 3rd main takes the 12th cross to cut into 4 main bcoz he knows that is where the KA-53 is headed. parks his bike in the middle of the road. KA-53 breaks, looses control and bangs into a gaaDi selling yellow and green plastic bindige. then sp sangliana catches and kicks the bad guys.)
shas3n's picture

Tracking

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SubbaNNa, tracking in terms of getting every vehicle's location=f(lat,long,time) is absolutely huge task and as far as I know, plainly impossible. The economics just dont work out. RFID tracking can only be done in terms of having 'monitor points' which record when a vehicle passes by them. So if the trinity circle sensor records 1000 vehicles and the anil kumble one only 500, then the system can send automatic correction code to the kamaraja road junction traffic signal!! And of course can also be used to track vehicles in the sense that you can get the data like / Tracking data for vehicle KA-NN-X-NNNN 01:55:45 AM - Town hall 01:56:55 AM - Sajjan Rao Circle / Isn't that one way and about 2 kms in 1 minute? Catch the moron and send him a notice home!! Or yeah, Sangliana can can be waiting in Sajjan Rao circle munching on a 'parcel' veg puff from VB Bakery! -Shastri

-Shastri

tsubba's picture

tracking

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shastrigaLe, i just shot off, assuming all vehicle track. but if the trigger for all tracking is human, or a region specific then it is perhaps doable. the beauty is you can set shop at one jn in the morning and another in the afternoon fairly easily. but they have 40 camera's with night vision capability up and going. with a plan to add another 40. also on mysore road, they have some new toy, that zaps radars and takes a pic and then prints it on the spot. some 500 people they caught i believe. cant get a link.
s_yajaman's picture

How does the police know genuine license plate nos?

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Given that there are some 3 million private vehicles on our roads, just how does the police know a genuine plate from a fake?  I can bet Rs.1000 that if I change my plate to something else or even have different plates at the front and back of my car, I could go around for a few months without anything happening.

License plate manufacture is completely disorganized.  I am not sure if the people on the roadside who make these plates are authorized by the RTO?  No one asks you to show your papers,etc.

I believe there are new norms for a license plate - it needs to have IND on it and a hologram.  See this from wikipedia.

Since June 1, 2005, the Government of India has introduced High Security Registration (HSR) number plates which are tamper proof. All new motorised road vehicles that come into the market have to adhere to the new plates, while existing vehicles have been given two years to comply. Features incorporated include the number plate having a patented chromium hologram; a laser numbering containing the alpha-numeric identification of both the testing agency and manufacturers and a retro-reflective film bearing a verification inscription "India" at a 45-degree inclination. The numbers would be embossed on the plate, rather than being painted for better visibility. The term "India" is to be in a light shade of blue.

There has to be stricter control on the whole process, without which any technology can be misused.

Srivathsa

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

mailabode's picture

Excellent idea. I think oits

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Excellent idea. I think its already there in some European countries.

Your whole concept is very good.

nijavaada's picture

getting to the root

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Firstly I would like to add that this discussion is on a meaningful topic. Meaningful because it indeed concerns something that matters to more people in Bengalooru, obviously because of its roads overflowing with traffic. Whereas on an average this doesnt attract as much attention when talked about in a wider spread - entire state of Karnataka, say.

But since we're all generalizing things and looking at the problem from various angles - not to mention the quite so interesting mention of hologram usage on plates and such fancy stuff - I feel a domain-wise generalization is much warranted in this discussion. More so to get a solution after taking a wider perspective into consideration.

Lets look at Bangladesh. Number plates there are entirely in Bangla script - even the numerals i.e. Nepal. There too you'll find all vehicles bearing plates with characters in their own script. And England - they have their own script too on their number plates! But of course, right?!

But, lets return to India - we have nearly 20 official languages in this country, and about as many states - but we have a rule which says the numerals on number plates need to be in English and Roman (for numerals)! All for a rule, that was written when the writer/ruler didnt care to understand the ruled. What a pity, we still want to abide by it, just because its a rule. Just because we dont have enough time to frame our own rules that really match our context.

The USA has a transport authority for each state, and a license issued by one state doesnt hold good for another state. This is with all the (lack of) diversity among their states, mind you! Now with all the diversity that we have in us, look at what we've been doing, and how we are faring!!

The world likes localisation, but we dont! We want everything to be under one common umbrella, all the time. We want one national bird, we want one national flower, we want one national game, and what not? But we claim and want to remain under a decentralised system of governance.

I think it is but meaningful to have number plates in Kannada script (apart from Roman!) in Karnataka. Expecting them to be in Roman only for the meagre percentage of a mishap occuring, and this vehicle being involved in that, is but stupidity, for sure. Taking a long haul from here, it would make a lot of sense if the system geared up for driver education in Kannada inside Karnataka, and made them aware of the real intricacies involved in careful driving. The current English medium of driver instruction is admittedly the culprit of the matter this discussion has been led to - "no safety on road."

Approaching the root of the problem is how we can head towards progress. Not by discussing solutions to issues that are like raktabeejaasuras as read in our mythology!

-Nijavaada

-Nijavaada
navshot's picture

even deeper than root...

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Nijavaada,

Lets go even deeper than that... you meant using number plates to aid track down a vehicle after mishaps is a stupidity. Then can you please tell me why do we need number plates? We don't need them! Great, that place can be filled with even more tasteful words/picture than meaningless numerals in some language, right? 

GET REAL!

-- navshot
pradeep's picture

I would like to have my

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I would like to have my Number plate in Arabic. Can I.. becoz our traffic police are not concerned about it. Have any one played Carmageddon Game ?

Our traffic police is only worried about reaching their targets by EoD.They dont worry about the smoke eminating from autos or buses.

Regards,

Pradeep

“An act of charity by the citizens questions the worthiness of the government.” 

silkboard's picture

Language policy

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Nijavaada does have a valid point, he/she made a good attempt at looking at this thing a little holistically.

Nijavaada, first of all comparisons with Bangladesh and US are futile. There are no real parallels to our unique multi lingual situation. Closes parallel you can find with our country would be European Union - but even there you have separate countries per language or history/culture. May be Switzerland, where sizable percentages of population speaks German (north), French (west) and Italian (south).

You raise a good point, does it make sense to have national 'things' in a country where save for a majority religion, spices used to prepare food, nothing really is national. Or wait, I am thinking weather, flora fauna, dress, general face and appearance. How about a cowardly chalta hai outlook, glaring lack of collective wisdom :) Actually the more you think, more you are left with only the language, and prepared food (not the ingredients) as the regional elements in our setup today. You could perhaps add regional history as well, separate heroes for every other region.

And then, in the spirit of democracy, nation's forefathers made an attempt to push Hindi (simply because the language is spoken by majority, not because it comes from north). Now here, we have Roman numerals being pushed as the national script (number plates). Essentially, realistically speaking, since we can't accept another Indian language as the national language, we will embrace a foreign or 'world' language.

Messy picture indeed. But here is my take on how the language policy of states should be like:

  • Compulsory local language in schools either till class 5/6, or from class 5 to class 9
  • Parents can choose the medium of instruction

What this will lead to is this. Every second generation migrant would know the local language, that should and must be the expectation. First generation migrants can perhaps be excused, only for the sake of complication involved in forcing them to learn, though they can be encouraged or incentivized.

An example: Maharashtra makes it mandatory for both state and non-state (ex: CBSE) syllabus schools to teach Marathi (I think from class V to class IX). But in Karnataka, Kannada is compulsory only for high school students studying state syllabus

blrsri's picture

licence plates..

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_licence_plates

This is very interesting info..I was aware that there was some move like this but not about the details. I saw such a board few days ago on a bike and thought that guy riding it was a US return and wanted a board to remind of his travels! :P

Any  idea where we can get these plates in blr? Its unfortunate that even new cars or other vehicles being registered are not mandated for using this boards..

We can also take cue from the US having examples like 'sunshine state' for florida and have 'sandalwood state' for Karnataka!

btw we have a standard and thats it..period..no debate on having kannada on the plates!

nijavaada's picture

get the right root!

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Well, according to navshot here, a number plate is purely an emergency necessity. Thats really strange! A number plate serves several purposes, and that it can help trace a culprit vehicle too, is a side-benefit only.

Looking at a side-benefit as the only true cause of an element's presence, and talking about it with authority sounds like blabber.

But just in case having numbers plates were mostly to track vehicles involved in accidents, having these plates in Roman characters is even more stupid in our context! Accidents dont happen only when English reading "gentlemen" are on the road, witnessing the whole scene. It can happen anytime, and anywhere. And the likelihood of finding a person able to read Kannada on number plates is more likely on this part of the world than anywhere else (outside of Karnataka i.e.) 

So that way, if someone wanted to have a number plate in Arabic, or Italian on this land, he/she is the one who is having criminal intentions on the road. I think we need to be a li'l more cognitive of ourselves in this matter, if we have to understand the problem at its right root - and that is the ideology to stick to an ancient, irrevelant and arrogantly made rule, totally unfit in our environment.

 

--> silkboard,

thanks for understanding things in the right vein. I agree European context would have matched more here, but there was a graphical reason why I chose Bangla and Nepalese there. Definitely dont want to compare how these countries are doing against us.

Our system needs to metamorphasize beyond this cocoon which someone else wove for us, ages ago - which no longer seems to be in tune with our requirements - which it didnt meet, even when the rule was made.

For instance, a safety guideline (for crossing roads) which happens to be influenced by American setup is this - Look at your left and then the right before crossing a road!

- But hey! with vehicles driving on the left side of the road in India,  it is better to look at your right first, where the vehicle is closer and headed towards you, and then to your left.

Does our system teach children this minute difference? What a shame, isnt it?

-Nijavaada

-Nijavaada
navshot's picture

Facts and figures

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I don't accept anything without facts and figures. Do you have any proof which says people who know only kannada out-number people who know english?

I didn't say the number plates are used only for emergency. Please read my post again. The idea is for majority of the population to be able to read it, given that vehicles are free to be driven anywhere in the country.

BTW, why are you posting your blogs in english? Why not only in kannada? Same thing applies to me too. I'm passionate about my mother tongue - Kannada. But over here, we are trying to solve issues and it helps if your reach is more. Its a similar case with the plates too.

I think we tend to attach too much of emotion to language. Language is, ultimately, a mode of communication. The sole purpose is to communicate certain information. If the target audience is diverse, then it makes sense to use the language that majority know. No need to attach emotions to it.

On the other hand, each language, over a period of time, has developed artistically in its own rights. A certain artistic descriptions are effective only when made in Kannada than in some other language.

We should learn to differentiate - learn to develop "viveka". 

-- navshot
nijavaada's picture

difficult!

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About posting in English and Kannada and all that navshot mentioned - Whenever you say those kind of things, you should see where you already stand. expecting most people to be able to read my comments in Kannada today (with unicode and browser related issues) is not realistic, whereas it is certainly realistic that a majority is able to read a board in Kannada in Bengalooru.

Your mention that each language has its own trait and that language should be used for that purpose to take benefit - is a loser's comment - because you claim Kannada is your mother tongue, and yourself lay your arms down and say that your mother tongue is unfit to be able to communicate information about what is at stake on a road full of automobiles. You're essentially ruling your own language out of the road, and laying a carpet for some other language to come and rule the roost on our roads! Isnt that crap!?

From an attitude perspective a winner would say, okay, I go by facts and figures all the time, so let me sit down and figure out what facts and figures matter here, and which among those should I work upon to help make my language fit for such communication that you're talking about.

BTW, when you said: "Then can you please tell me why do we need number plates? We don't need them!" I thought you obvisouly meant that was the single reason behind number plates..

-Nijavaada

-Nijavaada
sarvagna's picture

indian langauges

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Indian langauges are far behind its european counterparts when its comes to usage of langauge in technology.With people like above who oppose the use of local langauge in in each and every small things its niether going to happen.


shas3n's picture

Language

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sarvagna, I dont think it is fair to think that all these people are 'opposing the use of local language'. The issue here is that kannada number plates are being used as a pretext by few vehicle owners to escape being from tracked. As long as that issue is addressed, I guess nobody is opposing the language. Dont see offence where none is meant. So, lets say, if we make number plates compulsory in BOTH scripts (local and english) I am sure all the people who are complaining above will be happy. It is just the 'misuse' of kannada that people here are worried about. I personally can read kannada numerals as easily as the roman ones. But I know the majority of the people in my circles can not. It is a sad state of affairs but pushing kannada numerals in critical things like vehicle number plates etc is not going to solve the problem. The problem is more fundamental than that and needs to be addressed in a more fundamental way. -Shastri

-Shastri

s_yajaman's picture

Rupee note then?

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Nijavaada,

You might want to tell us what the main purpose of a license plate number is as you claim there are many purposes and identifying the (culprit) vehicle is only a side benefit. 

This is what I got from wikipedia.

A vehicle registration plate is a metal or plastic plate attached to a motor vehicle or trailer for official identification purposes. The registration identifier is a numeric or alphanumeric code that uniquely identifies the vehicle within the issuing region's database.

What is the primary script used on a rupee note for the number?  What about a cheque leaf?  What script do people normally put on a letter for the pincode?  What about the MRP printed on products?  What about the names of the brands themselves? What about the watches and clocks that we read time from? 

Why do you say that the system is no longer in tune with our requirements?  You might want to elaborate this with some supporting logic.  What are our new requirements that the system no longer meets (apart from language chauvinism)?

I however also agree that converting the script, in general, to a Roman script (as they did in Malaysia, Indonesia) is a sure way of finishing off the richness of the language.  There is no worthwhile literature that comes out of those countries. 

Srivathsa

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

nijavaada's picture

--> Shas3n What sarvagna

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--> Shas3n

What sarvagna contemplated at was partly right, because there seems to be some apparent resistance in accepting that Kannada can and needs to be the medium of all operations - be it instruction, administration, business or pure communication, of any kind i.e.

This attitude itself needs to be changed. Thinking about our language and its presence in all these walks of life is itself chauvinistic thinking to some, and that needs to be subdued for our progress.

 

--> Yajaman

All that you're talking about exactly falls under the list of things that have to happen. Something like a wish-list of a true Kannadiga, you can say. What if they are the way they are right now? If we have it in us, we'll prove ourselves and make available all those in Kannada that are currently not in the scene.

Be it labels on FMCG, language used in consumer services, or be it highly technical specifications or road safety information. It is stating the facts if you say all these are not in Kannada today. A discussion on this page is about solutions, and lets talk solutions, Sir! Shall we??

-Nijavaada

-Nijavaada
santsub's picture

K-Plate - sample

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Sample Plate design that I createdI took a step at doing this - I know it may sound very insane to some - but can our RTOs take a cue and design something>?? This plate here is a special plate to conserve wildlife... in Karnataka but similar concepts on tourism, go green etc can be simulted... My thoughts....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21318792@N07/2422603283/

tsubba's picture

awesome

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awesome discussions folks. and great inititative santsub. woohoo actually. about the plates, they have a pan national administrative purpose. which have been discussed above. i honestly doubt if there is any literate person who comprehends the numerals in kannada script but cannot in roman. that small little metal plate is not the place for battles of language. but i understand that it is an important cultural marker. and santsub has shown the way to go about it. about the language discussion itself, i have made a post here, http://bangalore.praja.in... we can have meta rants on language there and focus on plates and heat pressing our concerns about identity into the metal here.
s_yajaman's picture

I disagree with what you say but...

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Nijavaada,

I am not sure I agree with you - but you are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. 

I will be honest with you, this is how I see things - I happen to be born to a Kannada speaking family.  I neither take undue pride nor am I ashamed of that accident of birth.  I think the greatest tragedy that befell this country was the formation of states based on language.  (My opinion again).

I can speak English, Kannada and Hindi reasonably well and I have benefited by knowing each of these languages.  I can understand Tamil and Telugu half decently.  I do not and will not thump my chest about being from such and such place or speaking such and such language at home.  Again this is my viewpoint and I will not (even attempt to) force it down anyone's throat. 

I don't have any solution to offer as I don't see any problem with things being in English - especially things of common usage.  However, I see a problem that we are becoming more and more insular in this city - frogs in the well and fairly insecure frogs at that.  Kannada has survived and thrived for a 1000 years and will survive a 1000 more, without having to resort to brute force. 

I also don't see how someone gets the right to decide what language my children will learn or what their medium of instruction should be.  That is a personal matter and should remain so.  Will such people take responsibility for my kids' future?  I have met enough people from rural Karnataka/India who had to struggle really hard  because they were not exposed to English till class VIII and they wished they had been.  Maybe the opposite is also true - I have not met such people though.

Srivathsa

"I disagree with what you say, but will defend to death your right to say it" - Voltaire

 

 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

navshot's picture

Just a piece of metal...

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S_yajaman, you described my feelings exactly, perfect! We can agree to disagree with others, no harm in it. TS, thanks for guiding the discussion back on track.

-- navshot
tsubba's picture

sure sri

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but a truely lively and organic city is more than the sum of its parts and transactions on a ledger. A truely lively and organic city is struggling against something and fighting for it. while blr is fighting for its roots, cities like San Fransisco and new york get to fight for all the nice and fashionable causes. make no mistake that is what distinguishes a san fransisco and a new york from an atlanta. it was a struggle that even got atlanta into reckoning to begin with otherwise it was no different from a Charlotte. then it died, and they settled into a stupor. p-lane wide roads they now have but nobody would mention it in the same breath as a san Fransisco or new york. on the other hand, perhaps we can do with a little less of chest beating and thigh slapping, but you have to grant that too much handy wavy everything is OK type of attitude is not good too. in any case, all the verve and impetus now rest with those fighting for something. unless, folks who believe in alternate theories stand up for what they believe in, who is to complain? i for one would love to get it out all in the open. it can only be good for blr and ka. there is some syncretic middle ground out there, unless folks like you stand up for that we will never find it. thanks for your ideas.
sarvagna's picture

s_yajaman

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I think that your last post was more out of pure emotional burst and nothin else.

 you said that you dont have problems in having solutions in english.Then you should not have problems in english and kannada either.Whats your problem if you see kannada script along with english script in a cheque? will it hurt you.I do not understand your logic or problems.

 


s_yajaman's picture

I miss the Bangalore of old too - but...

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Tarle,

I miss the Bangalore of the 80s and early 90s.  It was a more relaxed place and people were more courteous. 

I remember, I was driving down MG Road (in 1990!) and was waiting at Trinity Circle.  I got distracted and was looking away.  After some time I heard a brief honk from the person behind me.  Judging by how far the car in front of me was the light must have been green for about 3 or 4 secs till the man behind honked.  Can you imagine that now?

We used to bicycle back from school (Museum Road) to HAL.  I used to drive often to my grandmother's house (16km) in about 30 mins (at 10:00 a.m.) without crossing 50 kmph.

It was a generally (at least in my limited experience) a live and let live place. 

So I am certainly not saying that all is okay with the world.  Not at all.  I am shocked at the state of things here.  But to say that the usage of English somehow is responsible for this does not cut much ice with me.  Or that outsiders are responsible.  BMP, BDA, LDA, BCP have always been staffed with locals.  It takes two to tango.  If there have been bribe givers, there have been bribe takers. 

Bangalore has several roots - Kempegowda to the Marathas to the British.  Can you pull anyone of them out without causing damage?

Srivathsa

 

 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

s_yajaman's picture

Did I say I have a problem?

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Sarvagna,

My wanting or not wanting something is hardly going to change things.  I however am entitled to see things in a certain way.  Did i say that we need to prohibit Kannada? 

Again if you see my post as an emotional outburst I can't help it - you have a right to.  If you want to spend your time trying to get Kannada onto a cheque leaf, all the best.  In the meantime I will enjoy a good cup of bisi bisi filter coffee while listening to Rajkumar, P.B.Srinivas,Mohd Rafi and Kishore Kumar :)

I stand by my frog in the well statement.

Srivathsa

 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

Vasanth's picture

Me too

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Yes Srivathsa, me too. I was going to MG road from Hanumanthnagar on Luna double ride. That itself was happiness after getting promoted from cycle those days. At MG Road,  movie theatres were so cheap, I remember going to a James Bond movie in 89 in Blumoon theatre just for 3 rupees 50 paise. Now the movie theatres, restaurants etc.. have become so expensive and everything is rich man oriented. A common man cannot think of watching  movie in theatre. Most of the things are car orriented and there is no value for money.
Mithun's picture

Great thoughts!

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Nice thoughts in designing the template, Santsub. Full marks :-) I also would suggest something similar. As some of us have mentioned that there is a government rule to have numbers/letters in roman/english, lets follow it. The number plate will also have lot of space beside the letters. In that space, just like what you have showed , we can have the word -Karnataka written on it, or phrase like 'Gandhada gudi', 'Sirigannadam gelge' or Gandabherunda logo or Bhuvaneshwari picture or Red+Yellow flag. This will express our love for the state/language. I think most of the people want to associate their vehicle's number plate with something close to their heart. I have seen "LOT" of 2 or 4 wheeler number plates in Mysore with following (lets not talk about 3 wheelers): 1. names of their children/family members like 'Chinnu, Putti, etc..' 2. God's name like 'Shri ------ prasanna' 3. If the vehicle owner has some business enterprise, then name of the shop like 'vasantha enterprises' 4. fashinable logos like eagle, word 'ARMY', horse, etc. 5. On Hosur road, I saw this phrase on a motorcyclist's hind-number plate: "Yes, its my father's road!".
santsub's picture

Customizing - Plates

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Custom plates like you said Mithun is what I was trying to show too.. It can be custom plates like you said - with names of their kids or some phrases that they like or even logos of their business.. but it should be regulated and and will be charged if they want it on the plate other wise they can always put anything on their vehicles except on their number plates :)

This will be great if our state govt can adopt and bring it to force immediately. Infact I have the second pic in my photostream where i corrected the first one with a barcode embedded in to the plate for futuristic scans so that cops can scan your plate and get information :) - may be we can go even more hitech with embedded chips in them - just a thought...

 

santsub's picture

Multimodal Transport - Mantra for Blore - Nice video

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THis is a nice video that demonstrates how we need to plan multimodal transport for a burgeoning metropolis like Bangalore - excerpts from Atlanta..

http://www.monumentalmedia.com/arc/show106/

 

blrsri's picture

important take aways..

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very interesting video..sometimes makes me wonder if the folks in blr have anytime made efforts to learn from other places like these..

They talk of 50 mil population we are double that..and the growth rate is much higher than that of Atlanta. But the budjet for infrastructure is a fraction of that for Atlanta.

Also, its about leadership, leadership that can foresee growth and lay out plans for better infrastructure..not, for example, the plan for short sighted 3 stop express train from city to the airport!

Golden quadrilateral is the example of a visionary work..I would also include the current mysore road by Revanna does have some vision..but what do we have more locally? 

Hyped magic underpasses? redundant flyovers from the start of operations? Its all been a hotch potch job!

Wish we bring:

Transperancy to the infrastructure operations. So that we will not need RTI's to ask them about their work.

Community involvement, becos without this all approaches will be useless

Stable group managing infra..govt not seeing this as a corruption source and hence letting the officers a free hand to work  

 

nijavaada's picture

who's the frog Yajaman-re?

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A thin question to make Mr. Yajaman think - who's the frog here?

Is it the guy who thinks having a number plate in Kannada is as much as a Kannadiga (born) can do to being an Indian, and thereby a world citizen?

Or is it the guy who thinks English binds everyone just because he knows English, and doesnt give a damn about many others who dont understand it?

Building a society around one's blissful ignorance (of others' problems) is but a froggish attitude, aint it? And btw, the other guy's problem is not that he is not English savvy, it is in fact that you (and your likes) are English savvy and think the entire world around you is exactly similar.

Come what may, I'll keep sipping my coffee while watching my favourite channel - and still have my say against doing what is good for a majority.  Isnt this froggish?!

-Nijavaada

-Nijavaada
Mithun's picture

no one is a frog here

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Friends, I believe no one is a frog in a well here. Lets stop calling anybody a frog. The frog in a well is someone who thinks that anything outside his place is hopeless. Somebody who refuses to see the outside world. ONLY his place/region is the best in the world. But we are NOT arguing like that. We are supporting our language in our land. Someone can call us a 'frog in a well' if we say that karnataka is the best in the world; Kannada is the best language; everything else in the world is B.S. Here is a link to the frog story: http://www.taiwandc.org/f... In every place, people have told me that I am insecure about my language -thats why I fight for it. There is a large population in Bangalore who want to continue to enjoy the 'cosmopolitain feel'. Probably they also have an insecurity that these pro-kannada movements will take away their cosmopolitain feeling. that may be one of the reasons for resistance. These are just my own thoughts; no personal comments against anybody in this site including Sri.
s_yajaman's picture

Frog contd.

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Nijavaada-avare,

If you notice my last comment to Sarvagna had a :) next to it.

I don't understand your first point. Are you saying that a Kannada license plate is one significant contribution that a Kannadiga can make to the world? Please clarify.

I am shocked at the growing consumerism in Bangalore and the insensitivity of people to other people's problems. When I stop at a pedestrian crossing to allow an old person/pregnant lady/small children to cross I get abused and often in the choicest Kannada.

Karnataka still lags behind our neighbours in life expectancy,literacy, female literacy, healthcare, infant mortality, rural connectivity, railway network. I can provide you with data if you so desire. I am not sure how Kannada numbers on license plates and cheque leaves helps matters. My own way of helping is by volunteering my time and money to a school for the underprivileged children - regardless of what language they speak.

It's highly possible that I am a frog in a different well, but it annoys me (as a long time Bangalorean) when

a. Buses that had their route boards both in English and Kannada now have them only in Kannada (love for my own means hatred for the other?)

b. People demand that theatres bring in new English/Hindi releases only 6 months later to "protect" Kannada movies. I neither watch English nor Hindi nor Kannada movies - it is simply the attitude that bothers me. It might be better to look inward and ask why people don't want to watch a certain movie.

c. Now the license plate rule breaking. Is this the way to propagate Kannada?

d. People talk disparagingly of another language (be it Hindi/Tamil/whatever) or culture. A sense of inferiority usually is at the root of such talk.

Also - you have not answered my original question- what is the main purpose of a license plate? Also what in your opinion is the root problem?

Srivathsa

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

Mithun's picture

amerikaada stylu

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Santsub, on a very very light note: This template looks lik a ctrl+C and ctrl+V of a US number plate - a very good one though!
admin's picture

Careful guys

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We could be getting close to getting out of fact based or constructive discussion to opinionated talk. Just be careful, thats all.

Thanks for everyone's cooperation.

cheers,

(admins)

sarvagna's picture

S_yajaman

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1) What is the problem in adding kannada numbers along with English? Is it a problem?you have not aswered it.Instead you have asked how will it contribute to kannada.

You are trying to mix up issue instead of answering to the question asked.

And comming to your point,Small small thing does matter a lot. European countries/america takes clue of such small things and this way they have built a efficient system. If karnataka wants kannada numbers instead of roman numerals it is not a sin,expecting other wise is a wrong.But here we are proposing for dual langauge system.But your opposition makes me sense that you oppose everything associated to kannada.Thank god tht population of people thinking like this are extreamly low in numbers.if not we should destroyed all our ancient literaure/modern literature and started reading english novels only.

2) You told that karnataka lacks in many things compared to its other southern counterparts.partly true and partly false. Every one in the country knows how tamilnaDu has been extreamly advantageous because of its regionalistic stands.Where as karnataka failed severly especially in railways because we never had a regionalistic view point.we had four railways ministers yet what is the achievment.Britishers had laid 2600 kms of railways,what has karnataka got after independence - 1300 kms of railway length?See its counterpart tamilnaDu has see what has it achieved having a strong regionalistic view.Even andhrapradesh has seen a sea of changes because of TDP.You have to be really a frog in the well to ignore this.

3) you talk about kannada name plates in busses? whats the actuall issue in it.Karnataka was framed based on linguistic basis.If karnataka does not encourage kannada who will do it? Korea or japan,how foolish.Karnataka has tried to be soft on many issues with respct to other langauges.Its only because of recent immigrant attitudes which has forced karnataka people to act strong.First try to analyse why people are changing in first place.Its not a overnight phenomenon.

4) You said that people do not have proper manners in road,so who is avoiding that?why mix issues and mix it with langauge here. Do you think driving in hyderabad/bhuvaneshwar/patna/lucknow is any better?Its a common phenomenon everywhere in india.Don't try to characterise kannadigas into this.I do not care what kind of kannadiga you are,but stop generailzing things.

5) you said that people demand later release of films for 6 months,again who were asking for it.kannada film fraternity and not all kannadigas. Infact many people opposed that.IF all kannadigas had said that it would have become another thing.You can't term sikhs as terrorist just because bhindranwala thinks like that.so how do say that all kannadigas were represented by KFI?

6) talk disparagingly of another language - who doesn't do? South indians are still ridiculed as madrasis,lungi wals etc etc.tamilians have a deep hatred for hindi.keralites tease all other langauge conterparts?Bengal is hatedlike anything in UP and bihar. So who is better in india?But inspite of all this you want to pin point kannadigas?why don't you generailise this behaviour to whole of India?Kannadigas on other hand have supported many langauges.No state in india sees 7-8 langauge films release on a continous basis.Why did you not see that.Karnataka is fore front in leading hindustani music.Overlooking such good points and looking for small mistakes is a sign of loosers.Tell me why does kannada people do not have a problem with either kerala or andhrapradesh.

a small note,

Last year karnataka agreed to sign projects worth 50000 crores.There was a condition from karnataka government pn issue of local employment. You have not seen north karnataka people are suffering.Now such policies definatly helps us.This is where regionalism adds a economic value.

I am sorry to say this,you are trying to preach that usage of kannada in such things to be discouraged. I like english,but that does not stop me in introducing my langauge to various fields.If you still think that i am a frog in well,i am sorry i can't help it out.

 


sarvagna's picture

Mithun

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"There is a large population in Bangalore who want to continue to enjoy the 'cosmopolitain feel'. Probably they also have an insecurity that these pro-kannada movements will take away their cosmopolitain feeling. that may be one of the reasons for resistance."

 You stold words of my mind. 


s_yajaman's picture

Apologies and a number of assumptions about me here

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As I have said earlier, we can have differing viewpoints and as Tarle pointed out that is sometimes what makes a lively city. I apologize for my "frog in the well" statement as it was unwarranted. It was not at you or Nijavaada. Each person sees the world through a different lens and I will respect that.

I have no problem with having an extra number plate in Kannada. BMTC already does this. My problem is that they don't put their destination names in English also, which used to be case when I took BTS. This is a clarification of my point. I don't expect an answer from you.

How do you know where I have been and where I have not? You say that I have not been to north Karnataka? How can you be so sure? Just curious.

The road behaviour here is pathetic - my point was that Kannadigas are no saints when it comes to this; just don't pretend it is the outsiders responsible for all the ills of the city; that always is the most convenient excuse. Just because it is bad in Hyderabad does not make things okay here.

You are free to introduce Kannada to every corner of the world. Who am I to stop you from doing so? My opinions should hardly be a barrier. It however is not a burning priority for me. I hope you have no problem with that.

Regards,

Srivathsa

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

nijavaada's picture

burning indeed

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Yejmana,

I think we're actually thinking what we're discussing here is burning priority to us. If it is not to you, I wonder why you started this thread at all, in that case!?

BTW, to clarify from my side, the number plate being in Kannada, and to do with being a world citizen, it was meant to be a figurative example. But still a number plate is the silliest thing one would want to miss from putting up in one's own language/script.

BTW, if you dont have a problem reading the BMTC boards today, that is because you're among the majority that dont have a problem either. And when a majority dont have a problem, and a minority has a problem, on a land whose people speak the language printed on that board, it is but in the interest of these migrant people to learn this language for their benefit - which is only as difficult as learning yet another Indian language. ( I've seen a malayalee guy in Bengaluru learning Hindi within one year of staying here - then why not Kannada before Hindi?! )

-Nijavaada

-Nijavaada
santsub's picture

Amerikaadu Stylu

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Mithun - crtl+C and crtl+V alla - It was done from scratch - well it was just a take not that we cant make it look Indian - my take is adopt anything that is nice... It is definitely an inspiration from the US. Isnt everything an inspiration from somewhere or the other?? Thanks for the compliment :) - I just did this in 15 mins - designing a plate can be as bizzarre as designing anything else.. well we can change it to make it authentically Indian :)

On a lighter note - even white house was inspired by TajMahal :) - thats written there in DC :)

sarvagna's picture

Amerikaadu Stylu

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guru adhare chikka number plate boardnalli aShtu info hakkoke hodre sari irutta,janarige number kaNsutta avaaga? 


santsub's picture

Number Plate designs

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Sarvagna Sir!

Chikka plate design maadidaga - banna, haagu karnatakada chinhe yannu alavadisi - bekiruva ella vishayagalannu kannige kaauvante srishtisabahudu.

 

- This was just my take in a hurry will design some more which will be for 2 wheelers and 4 wheelers and post it here.. But this is just my thought - if RTO in Karnataka can adopt it I will be glad to design them seriously - for social cause.

sarvagna's picture

santsub

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But instead of having www.karnataka.gov in the end,we can have the district name where the vehicle was registeres in kannada.In this way,people have to remember less numbers may be last 4 numbers only.

for example

KA 04 2334

04 might indicate some district.if district name is written in the end,people might just have to see the last four numbers and remember it.The district name in kannada will definatly not be a problem to remember. 

 


sarvagna's picture

santsub

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This was just my take in a hurry will design some more which will be for 2 wheelers and 4 wheelers and post it here.. But this is just my thought - if RTO in Karnataka can adopt it I will be glad to design them seriously - for social cause

Don't worry about RTO,lets design it.Atleast there will be some fun while desigining.Laughing


santsub's picture

Sarvagna - :)

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Sure.. I will do that and post it here - who has seen tomorrow? :)may be RTO will be forced to adopt it - lol (I am just being positive in moving things to help us live better)

Mithun's picture

internal problems

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Guys, I think we need to consider other realities like: If we enforce too much of kannada in anything related to Government or state, the districts of Kodagu, mangalore, Karwar, Belgaum, Raichur will not accept kannada dominance. in this case, if it is implemented to put too much kannada in number plate, these districts will not give acceptance. Remember what happened with City renaming in mangalore and Belgaum? probably something which identifies the state wont find opposition. The way we resist Hindi, many people in these districts would resist kannada.
tango08's picture

internal problems?

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Mithun Going by your argument, even Bangalore should resist Kannada because people of other languages are in majority! BTW are Tulu and Coorgi written in Arabic?
Mithun's picture

what u mean is right, sir!

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what u mean is right, sir!
roshanrk's picture

Why did the debate digress?

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The issue was that a lot of number plates aren't as per the Central Motor Vehicles act. People are not following the law, period! Showing pride for your language or the state is no excuse to ignore the laws set down. There have been a few excellent ideas on how we could follow the law as laid down and still display pride in what we believe in. The number plate design above is definitely one way to go about doing that. Can we lobby the new government to bring about this change? I'm sure we'll have support of all sections of the public for this. Instead of bickering about language lets be more proactive and try and get our politicians to work towards implementing some great ideas. This forum has excellent people with brilliant ideas for the city and state. All that it needs is some way to get them implemented.
sarvagna's picture

santsub

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When you observe nameplates,it generally defers from vehicle to vehicle.Car nameplates are bit smaller in size.

 So the design could vary from vehicle to vehicle.Also if at all in future RTo attempts this feature they could also implement the Bar code system in a single go.This way they can create a efficient system.They can change the whole system from paper to E-aministration collecting complete information of all vehicles in karnataka.

 

 


thampan's picture

why target the number plate

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Why target the number plate when the whole of the car is available for you to show your convictions/beliefs ? There is no law against you painting your whole car in whatver colour you like .. and you can as well write whatever you want on any part of the car as long as it is within the laws of the country.

 

So why are we so focussed on the number plate which is such a small part of your car ?

 

 

santsub's picture

Sarvagna

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Thats what I was intending to show too :) - if you had clicked on the photostream - you can see that there is a second plate that I put there with a barcode in the center... I ams till working on the new ones will post them here soon.

nijavaada's picture

the word "would"

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Mithun, you're using the word would, but your words seem to have the tone of stating facts! But, this much I can tell you with conviction - no one in Karnataka, who knows Kannada, would resist/desist Kannada and its script - be it in Raichur, or Kodagu or Kollegala. The renaming of our cities as Mangaluru and Belagaavi is underway and its going slow because it has become prey to the central govt's unjust behaviour.

@roshanrk,

Having Kannada characters on number plates does not reflect linguistic chauvinism just because its a violation of what is a law today, nor because the alleger knows what the word chauvinism means but cant reflect upon its relevance in this context.

A law is supposed to be there for the well-being of a people. And not otherwise - people leading their lives in a unnatural way just because there's a law preventing from leading it otherwise! While the former is expected in a free and liberal society, the latter is oppression incarnated!

So whether we want to see reality in its face and accept that Kannada on number plates wont harm us at all or stick to an ancient and irrelevant rule causing discomfort among the majority, is upto how "liberal" indeed our thinking can get. Not otherwise.

All these said and done, I do like the ideas about various board designs suggested here, but all of them can contain Kannada, and then it'll be really good for us. 

-Nijavaada

-Nijavaada
murali772's picture

high security registration plate

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latest on the subject is the   HSRP

Muralidhar Rao

Muralidhar Rao
sathyanak's picture

Hi All, I think that

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Hi All,

I think that majority of the people using Kannada registration  plates are not doing so for the love of the language, (and even if they did, this is not a way to propagate or display ones love for the language). I have seen even sometimes a TN or Maha registered cars,  many autos and 2 wheelers have their registration plates in kannada. The reason is simple. The owners of these vehicles wanted an easy escape in the case of an accident or a traffic violation and they do that in the shadow of the 'love for the language'. Its high time the RTO strictly enforces the law, where every one follows a uniform size, font and ensure English letters an numerals displayed in the registration plates. (this must be applied through out India). While there is no harm in displaying an extra registration info in Kannada or any other regional language, its very important that English registration details are easily visible.

Thanks,
Sathya
murali772's picture

finally, some movement

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Slamming vehicle owners who distort the way registration plates are displayed, transport commissioner Bhaskar Rao told The Times of India that the use of high-security registration plates would be made mandatory soon, with the process of converting the number plates set to begin shortly.

For the full report in the TOI, click here

 

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

acquiescing in the offences

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Offenders are on black Pulsar motorcycle. Their vehicles bear Kannada registration number plate - check this report on TOI.

I expect the 'Kannada number plate' will be a standard feature of all vehicles involved in similar offences. By not enforcing the Motor Vehicles Act in this regard, can not the officials concerned in effect be said to be acquiescing in the offences?
 

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

RTI query

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My repeated representations to the Police Commissioner, the Additional Commissioner-Traffic, as well as the Transport Commissioner, both written as well as oral, in the matter of strict enforcement of the M V Act, specifically with regard to display of vehicle registration number plates in English letterings/ Arabic numerals, as per prescribed standard, had all met with responses which essentially amounted to passing the buck from one to the other.

In the meanwhile, in the context of the Carlton Towers fire tragedy, the Police Commissioner had made the following remark, in an interview quoted in Citizen Matters - "Karnataka Police Act Section section 68 F enjoins upon police as a routine to make all endeavours to ensure that loss on an account is prevented. Loss includes loss of human life also. These are the duty calls of the police. To discharge these duties, the police are empowered under Section 70 to issue any direction to the public".

I expect the same logic should apply in the case of enforcement of the Motor Vehicles Act, more specifically in respect of number plates, too, particularly given offences as described above.

Accordingly, on 8th April, I filed a query under RTI, with the Police Commissioner, reading as below:

"Whereas the M V Act is very specific that vehicle registration number plates have to be made out with English letterings and Arabic numerals, as per prescribed standard, more and more vehicles (including ones belonging to the Police) are being seen on the city roads with number plates made out only in Kannada. My query is whose responsibility is the enforcement of this aspect of the M V Act".

The Commissioner forwarded it to the Addl Commissioner, Traffic, on 16th April (with a copy to me), directing him to respond. His remaining silent, on 19th May, I made an appeal to the Commissioner, with a copy to the Addl Commissioner, Traffic. I am yet to get a response from either. If the position continues the same way even beyond end June (latest), I guess I'll have to take the matter to the Information Commissioner, including the matter of penalties for delay in (or not) responding.

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

response from Commissioner

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Received the copy of a letter addressed to the Addl Commr, Traffic, by the City Police Commissioner, directing him to respond to my 'appeal', pointing out the lack of response from the Addl Commissioner, Traffic. My appeal was posted on 19/05; the response was dated 31/05, posted on 5/06, recd on 7/06.

There's no response yet from the Addl Commissioner, Traffic.


 

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

on to CIC

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With the continued silence from the Addl Commissioner, Traffic, I have filed an appeal with the Chief Information Commissioner on the 28th June.

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

obfuscation, equivocation, prevarication - call it what you want

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Finally, the office of the Addl Commr Traffic woke up, and the DCP, Traffic (W) sent me a letter (in Kannada, of course) saying in essence that the enforcement of the M V Act in respect of display of number plates is the duty of the Transport Department. Of course, I have my serious doubts about the veracity of that interpretation, and that's what I have sought clarification on from the Information Commission, through an appeal, which will see the light of day perhaps in the new year, given the pile up of backlogs there (check this).

Well, for whatever it's worth, I raised a query with the Transport Department, and they sent a response (again in Kannada) detailing how to display the number plates. Nowhere does it allow for exclusive display in Kannada.
 

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

Auto PIN

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Police Identification Number (PIN) are given to auto drivers, which they have to necessarily stick on the inside of the auto.

DCP (Crime and Traffic) P R Batakurki said, “We had some difficulties in tracing autos involved in crimes, based on complaints, as we had to wait and get details from the RTO. Now, we don’t need to rely on the RTO for details before we trace the autos. Based on the PIN allotted to each auto, we can easily track down the driver.”
    
Passengers just need to jot down the PIN of the auto in which they travel, he added.

For the full report in the TOI, click here.

This is typical of government agencies acting in silos.

The most obvious and universally accepted identifying feature for any vehicle across the civilised world is the registration number. But, since the Traffic Police and the Transport Department can't get their acts together, they have now to have separate identifying features.

And, asking passengers to note down the PIN number is like asking a victim to identify a criminal by his finger-prints than by facial features. And, of course, on the next Kannada Rajyotsava day, as per the guidelines of Mukhyamantri Chandru, they will ask the numbers to be made out in Kannada
.

Namma Adbuta Kar-nataka!

 

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

number noting challenge

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Krishnaraja says, “I sensed trouble and called the police control room. A lady officer answered and said that someone would be sent to the spot immediately. “She also asked me to note down the registration number of the autos. While I was trying to note down the numbers, the drivers started hitting me. Somehow, I managed to flee.”

Krishnaraja waited 100 metres away from the auto stand for the police personnel to turn up. “The auto drivers were looking at me repeatedly and discussing amongst themselves. After a few minutes, each one vanished from the scene. From the distance, I was unable to note down the numbers. “The police arrived a few minutes later, but could do little as I did not have the auto numbers. They questioned people in the vicinity, who said they neither knew the auto-drivers nor noted the registration numbers, before advising me to register a complaint,” he says.

For the full report in the TOI, click here

Situations are such that it is difficult to note down even a properly displayed registration number. Added to the problem is the refusal of the concerned authorities to enforce the M V Act in this regard, leading to even police personnel going around on mobikes having number boards in Kannada alone, and in all kinds of stylings. So, where does the auto-PIN come in, one wonders.

                     
 

Muralidhar Rao
idontspam's picture

Stick to English Besides,

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Stick to English
Besides, the cops have registered 11,278 cases against vehicles owners for displaying registration number plates in Kannada. As per the RTO norms, number plates should have English numerals, which are universally understood. Moreover, number plates in regional language not only violate the Motor Vehicle Act, but also make it difficult to identify a vehicle in case of an accident. City Police Commissioner Shankar Bidari said that the traffic police have been directed to deal strictly with violators in this regard.

Source

murali772's picture

So, they have woken up?

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Apparently, a notice from the Information Commissioner's office, pursuant to my appeal in the matter, has now woken up the Police Commissioner's office. The hearing should happen soon.

Meanwhile, there are any number of police bikes going around with number plates just in Kannada. If anyone notices one, please take a picture and put it up here.

Muralidhar Rao
rackstar's picture

one number plate

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As far as i know, law says minimum one number plate should be in English. So they can use kannada in one number plate and english in another. If both are in Kannada then it violates law. I could not confirm if law says like this though.

Bheema.Upadhyaya's picture

Solution lies in process...

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Not booking cases alone. RTO should ensure that the number plate as specified as per local laws and regulations before issuing original registration document to owner.

Process would be as follows

1. Owner applies for registration 

2. RTO allocates registration number and issues just a letter to owner with registration number and instructions for number plate painting.

3. Either RTO arranges for number plate or asks owner to arrange number plate in accordance to law and regulation.

4. Owner get its done

5. RTO verifies and issues original registration certificate.

I dont think adding this extra step to registration process will create huge delay.

If owner changes that later, case can be booked. 

Hope this helps

" My mantra to public bodies=> Enable->Educate->Enforce. Where does  DDC  fit?"
dvsquare's picture

High security registration plates are the need for the hour...

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Whenever we say, we need to book, we need to catch hold of culprits, we always have to keep one thing in mind, until we bring in technology in whatever new system coming up, we can't do much about these culprits, and that's where HSRP (High security Registration-number Plates) come into picture. Its really un-understable by a common man that why government can't force this rule, which is only going to be beneficial to the common man, the citizens. And I don't think we will have any protests coming in because of the cost of those plates, because everyone would be liking to get their vehicles secured (how poor that person may be). The only people going against are the ones, who are actually the guards of comman-man, the so called Police, because they might loose their own revenues coming out from the Theifs, or may be the ministers who are indirectly supporting the Vehicle-Theif Mafia's.

I would also suggest to come out in open, get some media attention about the Court's directive to few states on non-confirming to order, media can make people aware of the benefits of the HSRP.

Deepak

murali772's picture

caught a Cheetah

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Here's a Cheetah spotted this morning with the front number plate still just in Kannada. On the rear plate, he appears to have added on the alphabets in English and numerals in Arabic recently, though not quite totally in conformity with the requirements under the M V Act.

I'll add a link to this post on the BTP facebook, for whatever it's worth.

Muralidhar Rao
imran_huq17's picture

30k serial traffic offenders at large

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There are more than 30,000 vehicles whose owners are named in five to 10 cases of traffic violations.

These offenders seems to be caught RED HANDED with evidence but the cops are yet to trace them and the worst part is they seem to be Habitual traffic offenders and can be always dangerious. more details below

http://www.bangaloremirror.com/article/10/2011042120110421234855996297f1aab/30k-serial-traffic-offenders-at-large.html

 

The need of the hour is HIGH SECURITY number plates with TRACKING SYSTEMS so that will make it easier to catch these offendors.Nowadays there seems to be lots of cheap methods for Tracking.The simplest could be a SIM in the number plate.Unless this is done the roads in bangalore will not be safe.

Regards,

Imran

idontspam's picture

I dont know what is

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I dont know what is preventing these steps like HSRP? What are we waiting for? Maybe status quo is feeding mouths with dark colored money, and the pressure of this lobby is strong. We the people should demand this.

I would like to see petition type feature which we all sign up to & get mailed to the authorities. How about you?

dvsquare's picture

HSRP will reduce the revenue from mafia & bribe money

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Its simple, police cops will loose the revenue they can get from the people whom they caught, by out-of-receipt settlement. Also, if the vehicle gets stolen, it will be very easy to track and get it back, then it will be all transparent and they will not get to harrass common man and take-up some bribe to return their own vehicles, which they don't want. They want that constant revenue coming from thief mafia, and they keep taking advantage of common man.

If whatever I said above is not true, they I don't see any reason why they can't implement such a simple technology which is already present, and they just have to implement, even the cost can be on public, and noone will protest since this is going to help them only. Its like another one-time insurance kind of thing (insurance is still per year).

Deepak

murali772's picture

governmental mess up

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It noted that there were three categories of states and union territories — first those which have implemented the scheme Sikkim, Meghalaya and Goa, second those which initiated the process but could not complete it and third which did not take any step in this regard.

Karnataka fell in the second category as it informed the apex Court that an agreement for implementation of the scheme was signed with the vendor in 2006. The price notification and implementation date has been pending since last 4 years. Since the state govt cancelled the agreement, it was challenged before the Karnataka High court where the matter was still pending, it said.


For the full report in the Deccan Herald, click here.

Apparently, there's a clash between two powerful lobbies, this being a lucrative contract. With the Supreme Court siezed of the matter now, hopefully, the Karnataka High Court will fast track the case, and facilitate implementation of the scheme earliest.

Muralidhar Rao
sumi71's picture

Regional Language Number plates allowed or not

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Hi All,

It is quiet interesting discussion.  One support the language will support the regional language number plate.  One who is against that, he will oppose it.

But for the convenience of both, I found out a solution from the Bangalore traffic police.  I was talking  one of the known traffic police about the same issue of regional language number plates, he said that, actually writing in regional language is violation under MV act.  He also said that, because of the some language lovers, they are allowing the regional language number plates.  Further he said that, front and back number plates should be as prescribed in MV act, and on the side panels of the vehicle they can write in regional language.

So it will not affect anyone by anyways.  Even the rules are followed at the same time the affection on language also displayed.

I think it is better idea, which needs  to be followed by everyone in this country.

Regards,

Umesh.S

 


murali772's picture

Samaritan Auto Raja

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Otherwise a strict traffic rule-follower, he recalls a few incidents where he was compelled to break rules to help the patients. “However, the traffic policemen now recognise me by my vehicle. They know that I won’t flout the rule unless it is an emergency situation. Many policemen have travelled in my vehicle by paying me proper fare,” he chuckles.

For the report on "Samaritan - Auto Raja" in the New Indian Express, click here

However, first and foremost, he's violating the provisions under the M V Act by displaying number plates only in Kannada. The traffic cops, who are turning a blind eye to the rampant violations such as this, need to be hauled for dereliction of duty. And, there are millions of better ways of promoting Kannada.

Muralidhar Rao
dvsquare's picture

I didn't see anywhere mention

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I didn't see anywhere mention of number plate being in kannada in the article you shared.

If yes, then action should be taken and cops should tell him the MV act and I think being so nice, he will correct that too.

Deepak

murali772's picture

picture not seen in the e-version

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@ Deepak  -  There is a picture of Mr Raja and his auto in the print version of the story, which apparently doesn't seem to show up in the e-version. The violation is clear in the picture.

Muralidhar Rao
Bheema.Upadhyaya's picture

Like Umeshs solution

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Though for me this matter is NOT of much weightage when compared to other much bigger issues, I liked the simple solution provided by a cop via Umesh..

" My mantra to public bodies=> Enable->Educate->Enforce. Where does  DDC  fit?"
dvsquare's picture

 @Murali Sir, Ok, thanks

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 @Murali Sir,

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

 

@Bheema,

That's exactly the point is. And that's what is being suggested at many places by BTP as well.

Deepak

afalak's picture

What to do when cops themselves are not aware !

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BTP Vehicle with illegal plates

Tried searching for english but it was nowhere. Normally patrols the Domlur red light just before the fligh-over when coming from MG Road. He even asked me to write an application requesting his approval to take the snap. By the way, he has also parked illegally on the road and is nowhere to be seen (thats when I got the chance and clicked it) as I travel this area everyday. Those times in a bus.

-Falcon of India

murali772's picture

no great weightage?

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@ Bheema  -  Please see my post of the the 13th April, '08 in this same thread. You'll still maintain the matter is of no great 'weightage' to you?

Muralidhar Rao
idontspam's picture

The three major violations

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The three major violations mentioned in the memo are policemen riding without helmet, violating the one-way road rule, and using Kannada language registration plates... “Government vehicles have no business to violate the laws which are applicable to public in general. The traffic police must instruct the drivers and officers to strictly follow the traffic rules,” said the Police Commissioner.

More

murali772's picture

Excellent, Mr Commissioner!

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For all the toughness the earlier Commissioner showed in other matters, in this particular aspect, he can be said to be guilty of the charge of dereliction of duty. And, his deputy, the Addl Commr, Traffic, was only interested in playing a hide and seek game with the Transport Department over the issue.

Can we now hope for the Commissioner to start cracking down on the many other vehicles, particularly autos, going around with impunity with number plates made out only in Kannada?

The report has talked about members of the public repeatedly bringing up this issue. Perhaps, that refers largely to the comments on PRAJA. Well, friends, it shows that sustained campaign does work. So, let's keep at it.

Muralidhar Rao
dvsquare's picture

And also thanks to citizen's response on BTP facebook page

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BTP facebook page has lot of citizen's participation pointing out a lot of no-parking, no-helmet, footpath-parking, illegal number plates etc violatios and BTP taking action as well.

And out of those violations, a lot of police cops and vehicles are caught and snapped on the BTP facebook page for illegal number plates and no-helmet riding. And that also contributed a lot to tough stand by Mr. Mirji.

Deepak

Bheema.Upadhyaya's picture

View from other side

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You can read this article to read view from other side

" My mantra to public bodies=> Enable->Educate->Enforce. Where does  DDC  fit?"
murali772's picture

not acceptable, Sir!

murali772's picture

Does the state actually care for tourists?

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Returning from Mauritius on Monday after a week-long holiday with his family, Yeddyurappa began his press conference with: “I had gone to Mauritius for six days with my children and grandchildren. It’s a beautiful place. They have developed it as a great tourist destination. Bangalore has a great potential for tourism. I’ve spoken to the officials and some of my cabinet colleagues about turning Bangalore into a tourist attraction.’’

For the full report in the ToI, click here.

Now, if a tourist wants to lodge a complaint about a vehicle driver (and the papers are full of reports of instances of tourists having to do so), and the vehicle number plate is made out in Kannada alone (as is the case with a large percentage of vehicles in Bangalore), how is he/ she going to be doing it?

As such, if I were the Ambassador of a country to India, I would advise my government to issue a 'travel advisory' cautioning against travelling to Bangalore as long as the M V Act in this regard is not strictly enforced.

Let's see if the state actually cares for the tourists.

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

cause of confusion in murder probe

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Yet another near-lapse that could have proved costly for the police to trace the vehicle is that the number plate of the white Maruti Car was all in Kannada - CKH 4362 - which is difficult to read quickly at times of emergency like that of the Saturday murder. According to sources, the numbers given by some people was CKH 7632, CKH 3732 and CKH 9372. But it turned to be that of a truck and two two-wheelers. An officer of the rank of Inspector did some permutation with the numbers and arrived at CKH 4362, which turned out to be the  vehicle used by the killer.

For the full report in the New Indian Express, click here

May be the way to get the traffic police to enforce the law pertaining to the number plates would be to get the crime police to file a charge of dereliction of duty against them.

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

Prof Alexei escaped without having to master Kannada numerals

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Alexei got down and left with his family. But Manjunath followed them and started shouting at them. “My children were really scared,” the professor told TOI. He then came home and searched for the Mysore police website on the internet and found their Facebook account where he lodged a complaint along with the vehicle registration number.

For the full text of the report in the ToI, click here

While complimenting the Mysore police, the question that arises is, had the registration number plates been totally in Kannada (which in Bengaluru atleast is not at all a rarity, not just on autos, though), what would have been the plight of Prof Alexei?

When are the traffic cops going to be enforcing the M V Act in this regard, strictly? Or, do we have to ask the court to direct them to do it?

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

working against the cause

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"Regarding solving hit & run cases, he opines that in today’s scenario its difficult for offenders to escape" - quote by Mr Saleem, Addl Commr, Traffic, in the New Indian Express. For the full report, click here

Allowing vehicles to continue violating the provisions of the M V Act, in regard to display of number plates, so blatantly (as brought out in the many posts above), is not helping this cause at all, to say the least.

Muralidhar Rao
mbnataraj's picture

kannada and defective plates

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Bhashabhimana cannot be any excuse for intentional-mostly criminal like avoiding identification in fare gouging by autos, hit & run or chain snatching, wheelies etc- transgression of cmv act. reflecting, italics, micro or worn out lettering, missing front/rear number plates also top  the list. Much of the violations can be controlled by presuming guilt and merciless exemplary punishment.

murali772's picture

High time this all important drive is taken up

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Excerpts from 'The Hindu'

“Surprisingly, we have encountered cases where outstation vehicles display plates in Kannada to avoid trouble in case of accidents,” he (Mr Saleem) said. - - - Traffic policeman estimate that around 30 per cent of autorickshaws in the city have defective number plates. “They do this on purpose so number plates can't be deciphered when they jump signals,” said a Shivajinagar traffic policeman.

Mr Saleem said the traffic police would conduct a drive within 15 days to elaborate on the legality of the rule, and to crack down on defective plates.

Saying that there are too many violations for the police to track, police officials believe that it is the responsibility of RTO officials to take action against defective number plates. While the police can impose a fine of only Rs 100 for the violation, the RTO can impose a fine of Rs. 300 or more, thus making the fine more effective, explained a police official.

Most RTOs have registered only a handful of cases in the last year, and RTO officials said that with a shortage of inspectors, the issue of defective plates is not a priority.


While it may be true that RTO can collect a higher fine, the general impression of them is that they exist only to collect bribes. As such, they just cannot be expected to enforce this all important rule. As compared to that, the traffic police today has a far better image, leading to much higher expectations of them from the public.

The importance of strict enforcement of this rule will become evident on reading this and this - the first connected with a murder (of a Corporator), and the second connected to the terrorising of a foreign professor's family. Hopefully, the proposed drive will put a total stop to this rampant misuse.

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

the significance, yet again

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Constable G Srinivasu was on his usual rounds when he noticed the Scorpio SUV with a suspicious numberplate bearing KA 04-S-5515. Srinivasu knew that the 'S' series is normally not allotted by the transport department to four-wheelers but to two-wheelers. As he stopped the vehicle, Dinesh, the driver, pleaded with him to spare him. The constable took Dinesh to the police station. He told police that the documents were missing from the vehicle. But slowly Dinesh opened up and confessed that the actual number of the vehicle was AP 04-S 5515 (In AP, the series is different). Soon police found that they had stumbled on a murder case.

For the full report in the ToI, click here

The significance of having number plates made out strictly in accordance with the M V Act shows out clearly here. If the number plates were made out in Kannada or Telugu, no Srinivasu or anybody would have had any room for suspicion, and the murder case would have remained unresolved.

Need anybody say anything more in the matter?

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

calls for zero tolerance from now on at least

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I might have passed this over as a routine risk that women in Delhi live with. But now I think the story should be told, especially after Nirbhaya's friend has revealed that none of the 50-odd auto-rickshaws at the Saket malls agreed to take Nirbhaya and him to their destination. If one of them had, they wouldn't have taken that deadly bus and Nirbhaya might have been alive.

- - - Suddenly the driver whipped out his cellphone, turned around, and clicked our picture. His gruff voice turned menacing: "Tu complaint to kar, mai batata hun (You just try filing a complaint, I'll show you what I can do.)" An argument followed and I called the police control room at 100.

- - - I informed 100 that the driver of the auto-rickshaw with the registration number 'DL 1RM 9979' had abused us, and on protesting, had taken our pictures and threatened us with dire consequences. The voice at the other end gave me another number - 27854799 - and said that the area I was in came under the jurisdiction of the police who would attend to my call.

- - - I know I live in a very unsafe city.


For the full report in the ToI, click here.

There have been equally threatening incidents reported in Bangalore also. The difference here besides is that, unlike in Delhi, you'll not be able to read the registration number even, since it will invariably be written in Kannada, which even half the police force in the state can't read readily since there are no defined standards either. This makes for a more dangerous situation here than in Delhi even.

Now, while rule-50, sub-rule-2 and proviso-D of Central Motor Vehicle Rules, 1989, specifically states that the letters on vehicle number plates should be in English and the numerals in Arabic (as the regular 1,2,3 - - is identified as, and which is what you have on the currency notes also, readily understood even by the least literate of our countrymen), it is merrily being breached by all kinds of vehicles (at least in Bangalore), including those belonging to government departments. While the Transport Dept (through the RTO) is supposed to ensure compliance at the time of the registration of the vehicles, and at the time of the annual licence renewal in the case of commercial vehicles, and the Traffic Police is also empowered to enforce this (as admitted by the City Police Commissioner, pursuant to an RTI exercise - check here for details), both are shirking the responsibility, and trying to pass the buck onto each other.

Going about with number-plates in Kannada (alone) is plainly to allow for anonimity for ill-intentioned drivers (read this to learn more), under the cover of chauvinism, which in itself is bad enough. The Nirbhaya incident has once again highlighted the need for zero tolernce on such aspects.

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

civil society needs to act

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The following was the response I received from Ramani Panchapakesan to the above post, through ToI:

I am glad you brought out this illegality of writing number plates in regional languages. It is seen in quite a few states. Police simply ignore such illegalities because, in most of the cases, the said vehicles belong to the irresponsible political big-wigs or their chelas. If governments do not take action against such vehicles and impound them, then public, civil society and NGO's should take up this issue and bring them to book. Please farward your letter and my response to as many people as possible.

Muralidhar Rao
kbsyed61's picture

Who is Ramani Panchapakesan?

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Who is Ramani Panchapakesan?

murali772's picture

just an active citizen

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RP is just an active citizen, as far as I know. I thought the comments very relevant, and decided to post it.

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

what about the number plates, please?

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The efforts of the Bangalore traffic police and Transport Department to promote the use of Vehicle Licence Display System seem to be bearing fruit, as the offices charged with distributing these display systems have been flooded with private transport operators since the notification was made.

- - - However, with the recent national outrage over issues of passenger security in private transport vehicles after the Delhi gangrape case, transport operators this time have not raised any objections.

“Everyone has accepted the rule and the process of implementation is progressing smoothly. The offices of the DCP East and West are the nodal offices to hand out these display documents and the offices are crowded almost everyday with requests,” said Additional Commissioner of Police (Traffic) Dr M A Saleem.

For the full report in the New Indian Express, click here

Going by the same logic, why isn't the Traffic police similarly enforcing strict compliance of the M V Act with regard to display of registration number plates too? Don't they consider it as important, if not more?

Muralidhar Rao
E.R. Ramachandran's picture

Kannada License Plates!

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I am  back in Praja after a long time!

With the kind of things going on, one more problem- a serious one at that ,is already added on our roads with kannada license plates. It's simply against Traffic rules and a misplaced emotion in a wrong place! This is a serious medico-legal issue fraght with dangers not to speak of further misuse with vested interest. This should be stopped immediately by traffic police / police commissioner.

murali772's picture

16th Feb Citizen's Traffic Forum meeting extracts -2

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Extracts from the record notes of the proceedings of the 10th Citizen's Traffic Forum (sometimes it is referred to as Traffic Advisory Committee TAC) Meeting held on 16-02-2013

Standard Number Plate Campaign:

Addl. CP, Traffic Stated that Transport Department has already been requested to strictly enforce Standard Number Plate rule as per Rule 50 and 51 of Central Motor Vehicles Rules, 1989.  Transport Department promised to co-operate with Bangalore Traffic Police regarding this campaign. The Standard Number Plate Campaign will be taken up in the near future.


Sad to say, the approach on this security issue is still rather lackadaisical.

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

Number plates not as important as display cards?

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With the extended deadline for cab drivers to fix display cards on their vehicles over, traffic police have launched a crackdown on those who have refused to fall in line. Till date, only 33,000 of 2 lakh cabs and private passenger vehicles are carrying display cards with personal details of drivers. “We planned the display card system on the lines of the one in place for autorickshaws. The measure was taken in the wake of the gang rape incident in Delhi. We thought the cards would provide safety to passengers and make the drivers accountable,” said additional commissioner of police (traffic) MA Saleem.

For the full report in the ToI, click here.

All very fine. But, why isn't Dr Saleem showing similar keenness in enforcing the provisions of the M V Act with regard to display of registration number plates, even with it being the primary ID criterion for any vehicle, and even with the Commissioner himself having submitted in writing that the law in this regard will be enforced strictly (pursuant to an RTI exercise - check here)?

I am afraid if this lackadaisical attitude continues, I'll have to take up the matter with the LokAyukta. In fact, I had visited the LokAyukta office, to check out on jurisdictional issues, and after getting confirmation that I was on the right track, am now poised to lodge a formal complaint. I was the one who had nominated Dr Saleem for the Namma Bengaluru award this year, for setting up the unique TAC, apart from other initiatives (check this - others may have nominated him too), which he incidentally won*. Unfortunately, it looks like I am now having to lodge a complaint against his office (and perhaps, the Commissioner's) too, since otherwise I see myself as failing in my duty as a citizen.

The irony of it all shows out in the picture (below) that I clicked while stepping out of the LokAyukta office.




PS: * My last year's nominee, Dr U V Singh, IFS, won the award too - check this.

Muralidhar Rao
kbsyed61's picture

Dr. Saleem could be wary of Kannada Sanghas?

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Murali,

One reason Dr. Saleem dithering in enforcing could be thought of backlash from our ",Mannina Magas", i.e. Various Kannada Sangha Groups. But that can't be an excuse for enforcig laws.

Love for a language and love of law are not not antithesis to one another. Once my Hindi teacher taught me lesson on love for one's language:

"Zabaan Ki Izzat Moon Ke Undar Hoti Hai", meaning, respect for language is on your tongue.

 

murali772's picture

beware of vehicles with defective number plates

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With autorickshaw drivers coming under the scanner in the wake of alleged abduction and rape of a medical student in Manipal on Thursday last, Udupi district police plans to implement the Auto Rickshaw Drivers' Display System (ADDS). Bangalore traffic police implemented ADDS in 2006, after the gang-rape of a woman by miscreants in an auto on the Jnanabharathi campus. - - - - When TOI contacted Bangalore assistant commissioner of police (ACP) MA Saleem, he said the system will be made compulsory for taxi and call centre vehicles from September 1. "Police have personal data of over 1 lakh auto drivers. This is mainly to help the commuter identify the auto and the driver in case of harassment or demands of excess fare," he added.

For the full report in the ToI, click here.

But, even as the focus is on ADDS, there seems to be a totally lackadaisical approach to the problem of the more readily visible and universally recognised identifying feature, viz the number plate, being displayed just in Kannada in a sizable section of the city's vehicles, making for increased difficulty in detection in incidents like the one that occured in Manipal.

Whenever the matter came up again at the recent TAC meeting, all that the AddlCP (Traffic) had to say was that the HSRP will be soon in place, and with that the entire problem will get resolved. But, from a reading of the following extracts from a ToI report on the subject, yesterday (click here for the full report), one gets a feel that we are still a long way from a solution:

Tenders for technical bidding were floated on June 13 on a national scale to finalize vendors who will manufacture and sell the plates to state transport departments. This will be followed by financial bidding and a notification making HSNPs mandatory. - - - Maruthi Sambrani, joint commissioner (enforcement and HSNP) told TOI, “All vehicles which are registered after the notification is out will automatically get security number plates, but old vehicles will have to get new plates. But there’s some time before notifications are issued by the Centre and state on this.” - - - - Sources said that until last week, advocates flew in from Delhi to argue cases on this.

Meanwhile, the city's women population would perhaps be better off avoiding auto's, taxi's and other vehicles with such defective number plates.

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

long overdue; but, does he mean business?

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The transport department on Saturday issued a warning to vehicle owners who are not adhering to norms under the Central Motor Vehicles Act regarding the display of numberplates. - - - - A senior official from the transport department said the letters of the registration mark must be in English and the figures must be in Arabic numerals. "Owners of vehicles registered in the state can display an additional numberplate carrying the registration mark in Kannada, in the prescribed format," he added.

For the full report in the ToI, click here.

This the first time in my memory that a senior department official has made such a statement. To that extent, it is a welcome development. But, the question that arises is will he persist with the stand if one of the many language chauvinists floating around, who have little care for security of citizens, calls him up tomorrow and asks him to just shut up. We will have to wait and see.

Muralidhar Rao
Vijay Srinivas's picture

Number plates are critical, they should be in English only.

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Vehicles with number plates other than in English can be difficult to identify in case of criminal or hit-and-run cases. Hence, atleast the Numbers should be written in English format.

India has (I think) more than 50 languages, and one must know that Kannada is spoken only in Karnataka, and outsiders will not understand what is written instantly, even those who are keen in learning the local language. (details can be discussed in another blog, if possible). So, writing number plates in English is appropriate, I suppose.

murali772's picture

hope they are serious now

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The government said it will initiate action against those violating the prescribed rules on displaying number plates on their vehicles. A press note issued on Friday said: “...Many vehicleowners areexhibiting number plates in violation of rules. Some of the violations include using ‘Karnataka’ instead of ‘KA’, using decorative letters in various colours and fonts, using pictures on number plates, and using colours.” Plates have to be of a particular size and any deviation is a violation, it said. “Also, using Kannada is allowed only if it is in addition to the number plate in English. And it is allowed only on the right side in the front. The rear plate has to be in English,” the note said.

For the full text of the report in the ToI, click here.

Earlier in the year, a senior official of the Transport Dept had issued a similar warning (refer my post of 29th July). But, violations, even by police vehicles have continued merrily. It is not clear who has issued the press note this time. Whatever, one hopes they are more serious at least now. As I have been repeatedly stating it's a serious security issue more than anything.

Muralidhar Rao
blrpraj's picture

solving the problem once for all

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The only way for solving the problem is to have authorized parties to distribute the registration plate and have the vehicle owners use those only. Technology can be easily employed at these authorized centers to churn out registration plates; and by technology i mean 3-D printers. If a Texas company can make a metal gun using these #-D printers ( http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/08/tech/innovation/3d-printed-metal-gun/ ) then why not a registration plate?

This is pretty much how the US distributes registration plates to the motorists- use approved DMV license plates END OF STORY. PERIOD.

murali772's picture

question of different power centres?

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Though Pradeep called 100 (the police helpline), he was unable to translate the numerals of the number plate as it was in Kannada. He then called Basavangudi police station and was directed to South End Circle, where a Hoysala was waiting.

For the full text of the report in the New Indian Express, click here

Inspite of any number of such instances being reported in the media, including one involving a Corporator's murder, all we get from the Traffic Police are assurances (latest being on 10th Nov, '13 - scroll above to my post of same date) that they are on the job. Meanwhile, sighting of vehicles with number plates made out just in Kannada is a common occurance on the city roads.

As such, one wonders if, like with UPA-2, another power centre (Kannada Development Authority?, or the KRV?) is dictating matters to the Traffic Police, over-riding the authority of the Home minister.

 

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

what about the even bigger issue, sir?

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Ruffians driving autorickshaws in the city seem to be ingenious enough to circumvent every new measure police are putting in place to regulate the drivers.- - - Traffic police recently made the display cards 'foolproof' giving them a unique pattern code. But with most drivers not having any display card, the effectiveness of the programme itself is under question.

Additional commissioner of police (traffic) B Dayananda said any mismatch between an auto-rickshaw driver and the details on the display card is a grave offence. "We will ask our policemen manning prepaid auto stands to look at such deviations," he added.


For the full text of the report in the ToI, click here.

Far more important than enforcement of the display card, one would think is the enforcement of display of vehicle registration number plates (a universal and readily distinguishable feature) as per M V Act, ie in English letterings and Arabic numerals (and not in Kannada alone, as is the rampant malpractice, particularly amongst auto's). But, inspite of bringing up the matter repeatedly (check here), even going to the extent of getting an Adll Commissioner level police official to admit before the Information Commission that it was part of his department's job (check here), the enforcement is seen to be pretty slack.
 
What is holding back the Police apparently is the fear of reprisal from language chauvinists. But, is that acceptable, particularly when it can pose a serious security threat, apart from posing regular traffic rules violation and L & O issues?

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

Security threat is from elsewhere, Mr Minister

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Vehicles registered outside Karnataka can turn into a security threat if there are no proper checks in place, said Transport Minister Ramalinga Reddy as he defended the imposition of lifetime taxes (LTT) on non-state vehicle owners.
 
- - - Former Director General and Inspector General of Police Shankar M Bidari concurred with Memon. “This is a technique to increase revenue. I don’t think there is a security threat from non-state vehicles. Most of the vehicles are merely passing through the state. How can this possibly pose a security threat? It is a big state, so they want to collect as much LTT as possible,” said Bidari.
 
K Amaranarayana, a retired bureaucrat who was the Commissioner for Transport & Road Safety when the amendment was made in February, brushed off security concerns. “This is a revenue-generating model. We have 1,900 km of roads that need to be maintained. The High Court had dismissed a petition challenging this, as it is a  state policy,” he said.
 
For the full text of the report in the New Indian Express, click here
 
All the talk about security is just plain hogwash. The real security threat comes from vehicles going about with number plates made out in Kannada alone, like the one in the picture below (clicked at 13:43hrs on 10th September 2014 near cauvery theatre) - a government vehicle at that - in open violation of the M V Act.
Apparently, it is the KDA and KRV that dictate terms to the traffic police and the Transport Dept in these matters.
 
The multiple LTT charge seem unfair, and perhaps needs to be challenged at the higher court.
 
Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

Commendable, Mr Commissioner, but few things seem overlooked

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A senior officer said policemen often lost their name tags while on duty, but this was the first time someone had sent it back by post.

The officer suspected that the person who sent it had perhaps been in a situation where he wanted to know the name of a cop, but couldn't read it. The man said in his letter that most people in Bengaluru didn't know Kannada, so it would make sense to have the tags in both languages.

The message has apparently hit home. Soon after this, Megharikh issued an order across the commissionerate, making it mandatory for name tags to be written in English as well as Kannada.

It may be recalled that a similar debate took place about a decade ago when number plates of vehicles used by some government officials and police officers were written in Kannada.

The IMV Act clearly states that the number plate be written in English alone, but people would still use Kannada number plates.

The police now claim that 98 per cent of all vehicles follow this rule.


For the full text (emphasis added by me) of the report in the ToI, click here.

Most commendable on the part of the Commissioner to issue orders making it mandatory for name tags to be written in English too, unmindful of the expected backlash from the language chauvinists. There are enough ways to propagating (proathsahana/ uddara maaduvadu) the language, a fine example being the one pursued by Raghu Dixit - check here.

And, indeed, quite as the Commissioner has stated, you don't see too many vehicles these days with number plates just in Kannada. But, for all of that, the traffic police themselves should be setting better examples that seen in the pictures below:

Strictly speaking, the main number plates should have numerals and text only in Arabic (as it's strangely known), and English, respectively. You can make out additional number-plates whichever way you want. Besides, whichever way you look at it, the way the 'Cheetah' number-plates are written, are far from satisfactory.

Muralidhar Rao
srinidhi's picture

board size is also wrong..for

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board size is also wrong..for the cars/lmv's, the letters need to be a minimum of 2.5 inches in length and .5 inch width(thickness)..

so those plates in the pic are non -conformant!

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