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PH2 UG Red line routing

16 July 2017 - 7:43pm — srinidhi
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FInally BMRCL has published the UG route with station details of the new red line coming up between Gotigere and Nagavara. THe line goes UG at Dairy circle and has 12 stations on that stretch. The details are at the link below which was published recently 

https://www.google.com/ma...

Some positives from the map is :

  • Sholay circle now has a gate closer which will cater to the offices and establishments there
  • MG road interchange..not really an interchange in official terms as there is a physical separation of the lines...but now the station on red line seems closer to MG rd stn
  • Integration with Shivajinagar bus stand seems good..

But there seems to some huge gaps in the route too..

  • Starting with the cantt IR station integration..which seems to be totally missing..the proposed metro station is atleast 1 Km walking distance from the IR ticket counters (>2KM vehicle access).
  • No integration with the medical facilities or with  clusters of IT companies and Christ college at Dairy circle 

Please share your thoughts and suggestions..

 

 

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srinidhi's picture

Ph3 interchanges?

srinidhi - 18 Jul 2017 - 12:51pm
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Interchanges and integrations have been made a joke of with the first two phases of metro in Bangalore.

Glaring mistakes with interchanges were:

RV road interchange of the Green line with Bommanahalli line

MG road interchange (could have gone UG on MG rd and had a seemless interchange with the Nagavara line)

Also BYP extn to whitefield has a wasteful routing today, where the line comes at grade at BYP and then its planned to go OH towards whitefield. Instead design like Peenya depot could have been done at BYP too..would have saved money and time!

 

 

 

So how can interchanges be relooked now with the PH2 lines being tendered out.

1. Interchange at Dairy circle:

The planned UG station at Dairy circle is a few hundred meters away from the Dairy circle. SO eventually if there is a line coming from Agara/HSR, how will it integrate with the line at all?

2. Interchange at Shoolay circle:

The ph3 line coming from city corporation will have a station on residency road..how will it integrate with the Nagavara line?

3. Interchange on ORR near Nagavara

The line on ORR crosses the UG Nagavara line,  how is this interchange addressed?

Sir MV planned KRS with a projected capacity so that it could cater seemlessly for many decades. However BMRCL with way much more funds has set some bad precedence already with very poor planning already.

Hope ammends can be made quick!

Naveen's picture

Short walks to change lines is no big deal

Naveen - 19 Jul 2017 - 2:57pm
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MG road interchange..not really an interchange in official terms as there is a physical separation of the lines...
 
No integration with the medical facilities or with  clusters of IT companies and Christ college at Dairy circle 
Metro is always a stage by stage construction. Physical separations are unavoidable to keep disruption, inconvenience & costs low. As long as public is able to change trains at ease without too much walking, it should be fine.
 
So, what is an interchange in 'official terms'? Take a look at Dhoby ghat interchange station in Singapore when you go there. Lines were built one after the other & travellators are provided for passengers to move between different line stations due to long distance. Stations are physically separate.
 
Other examples: Times square or Union square or Lexington Avenue in New york where multiple lines meet. All have walk components for interchange as lines were built one after the other. Times square & Port Authority bus terminal is connected via pedestrian subway about 600 mtrs. A shuttle operates between Grand central & Times square (900 mtrs apart).
 
Likewise, integration with all - medical facilities, clusters of IT companies, Christ college at Dairy circle are impossible as they are all physically separated themselves. A station nearby to cater to all with acceptable walk distance with minimal disruption to existing facilities is the only way.
Starting with the cantt IR station integration..which seems to be totally missing..the proposed metro station is atleast 1 Km walking distance from the IR ticket counters (>2KM vehicle access).
Agree, 1Km walk is excessive.
Naveen's picture

INTEGRATION? EASY INTERCHANGES CERTAINLY POSSIBLE

Naveen - 19 Jul 2017 - 3:16pm
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RV road interchange of the Green line with Bommanahalli line
 
MG road interchange (could have gone UG on MG rd and had a seemless interchange with the Nagavara line)
 
Also BYP extn to whitefield has a wasteful routing today, where the line comes at grade at BYP and then its planned to go OH towards whitefield. Instead design like Peenya depot could have been done at BYP too..would have saved money and time!
I agree that on MG rd, the line could have gone UG but it would have cost much more. Since defence considers parade ground as their pride, they would never have parted with any land. MG road would have had to be closed down & fully dug up for UG station construction opposite Plaza theatre. Direct skywalk to Church street would not have been possible.
 
"Seamless integration" means facilitating people to inter-change lines or modes with only a short walk & not integrating stations & buildings into composite structures. If two underground stations with lines perpendicular to one another have to be integrated as one unit, they will have to be built together, not one after the other. If built separately, it will involve huge land requirements & additional strengthening when the 2nd station is built as the 1st station's walls cannot be breached.
This was why integration of airport line in delhi was not integrated with an existing UG line at Rajiv chowk. They should have provided a physically separated station but they didn't.
 
Further, even with all the trouble, if a 2nd station is built below the 1st, passengers would anyway have to come up to concourse or surface level from one line & then go back down to take a train on the other line. Not much different than what is now planned, even if such UG below UG stations can be built with the land constraints on all sides.
 
The locations of two stations at MG road (one already built overhead & the other UG coming up) are such that excellent seamless integration is possible with stairs /escalators /elevators between one another within ticketed area.
 
As regards RV road & Baiyyappanahalli - line extension /interchange were never planned when stations were built as feasibility for future lines were still works in progress then. Baiyyappanahalli stn at surface is a non issue since trains go up & down everywhere as per terrain & they ramp down & up far more at elevated to UG transitions. However, the station could have been built adjacent OMR instead of locating it 170 mtrs inside but the distance being small, its still acceptable. What is needed is a skywalk across OMR.
 
Anyway, the line that was built off OMR is now proving useful (maybe saving money too) as the line extension (as also the depot line for SB-KRPuram line) are planned off OMR, thus avoiding the railway underbridge.
 
1. Interchange at Dairy circle:
 
The planned UG station at Dairy circle is a few hundred meters away from the Dairy circle. SO eventually if there is a line coming from Agara/HSR, how will it integrate with the line at all?
 
2. Interchange at Shoolay circle:
 
The ph3 line coming from city corporation will have a station on residency road..how will it integrate with the Nagavara line?
 
3. Interchange on ORR near Nagavara
 
The line on ORR crosses the UG Nagavara line,  how is this interchange addressed?
 
Sir MV planned KRS with a projected capacity so that it could cater seemlessly for many decades. However BMRCL with way much more funds has set some bad precedence already with very poor planning already.
 
Hope ammends can be made quick!
Integrating two UG stations is cumbersome & not required as explained unless we want to build something like Majestic everywhere, occupying huge areas & causing massive disruptions during constructions! What is required is easy interchanging between the stations for passengers. This should be possible if the alignment of the phase-3 line is kept north of Marigowda road, crossing below the station & new UG station built below dairy land.
 
Same way, the other phase-3 line crossing at Vellara can be taken along Richmond road (not Residency) & new station built below the road (road will have to be closed during construction), else shift the line southwards of the road & build just east of Vellara junction.
 
The interchange on ORR at nagawara will probably be the easiest as that line is overhead (interchange will be similar to MG Rd).
 
Sir MV planned KRS where there were no land constraints or a city around with buildings & people & traffic. Metro constructions within built up city areas are always challenging & a compromise based on land availability, terrain, geology, traffic, costs etc unlike greenfield developments.
srinidhi's picture

opportunity..

srinidhi - 25 Jul 2017 - 12:49pm
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@Naveen As you mention the root of the problem with integrations has been:

line extension /interchange were never planned when stations were built as feasibility for future lines were still works in progress then

The situation has lot changed now and hope BMRCL has learnt about the inadequacies of the earlier design.

Though a phase 1 station closer to the MG rd-Brigade rd jn could have helped, Nothing much can be done with the integration at MG road now. 

However there is an opportunity at other places. The focus on Cantonment station location now is a good example of that.

Coming to Dairy circle station, BMRCL has noted that the station cannot be located at the circle itself because of the exisiting underpass. WHich is fair and clear. But having station exits right adjacent to the junction is still a possibility and can help in many ways:

  • Shorter access to medical facilities Kidwai/Nimhans
  • Shorter access to IT office clusters on both Hosur rd and Bannerghatta rd
  • Quicker access to educational institutions
  • Easier integration with the planned ph3 line crossing there

hope BMRCL can take this change up and plan for the future..

Naveen's picture

Oh please....again

Naveen - 25 Jul 2017 - 6:16pm
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Though a phase 1 station closer to the MG rd-Brigade rd jn could have helped, Nothing much can be done with the integration at MG road now. 

Sri... MG rd stn is close enough. 125m from junction is nothing. Please google search & check interchanges elsewhere, including the ones posted by Ravi on whatsapp. All will have 200-300mtrs walk component for interchanges, nothing unusual. Even 400mtrs is very common. Please check & measure walk distances.

You probably never used metro anywhere & haven't noted walk components abroad, even if you have used it some place.

But having station exits right adjacent to the junction is still a possibility and can help in many ways

In your drawing, the new location for the station is overlapping the underpass. Please again re-check properly on google earth. And as I said, metro is built with least disturbance to existing facilities all over the world. An additional 100 mtrs walk is nothing unusual. Where they located is correct as some dstance is required not to tamper with the underpass during station construction. The few shaded institutes are not the only ones to be served. What about the housing colonies on the west, east & north of station?

Further, bear in mind that every phase or every new line cannot be foreseen nor planned decades in advance, except on a short-term basis. Even master plans are always subject to change based on ground situations as they develop.

Example: Who would have thought that a section of the ph-3 line on ORR would have to be fast tracked & included in ph-2 due to hectic pace of development? Even as late as 2011, there was hardly any traffic & few offices on ORR. I know & I can say this because I stay close by.

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