Moving a comment on this excellent post from PSA/Pathy sir up here in the hopes of generating more discussion. And some disclaimer first - 1) I am not against the concept of engagement/consultation. 2) there is no offence meant to anyone or any group of citizens that puts in time towards engagement/consultation. 3) Likes of PSA/Pathy/Murali/many more sirs deserve a lot of respect for taking part on the engagement channels that exist today.
The way things stand today, local engagement initiatives (like Ward Committees) mostly go in one of these two ways:
- Either the activist types, or those with little more time on hand (retired, or perhaps not employed full time) would participate. For anecdotal evidence, see how PSA sir/ Pathy sir and Murali sir have been posting here on this subject and attending the events. While their time is much appreciated, and is certainly worth it , we all wish and want more people to get involved.
- Corporators or MLAs would flood the committee with their "own" citizens. After all, its not like you would actually have well publicized elections to pick ward committee members. Local politicians can always pick or nominate their men, and looks like they do. And they will do this even more if the local committees start becoming a "problem" for them.
I am against such "event" (as in, a meeting to review things etc) and "group of named people" (as in a committee of so and so people) based current approach to citizen engagement or participation. Just can't work for lack of wider participation, plus lack of clarity on these things:
- What are the powers or possibilities of such "events" or "committees". Can they propose things? Can their proposal be tracked?
- How do you pick people fro this committee - self selection, or those who show the interest, get rewarded by being included?
- Do these committees have any real say on the budget meant for their local area?
- Is there full public visibility on the budget for the local area? Is there a local area budget itself in the first place?
- Is there a proper "city" / "larger urban area" level body to manage consensus building for projects that touch multiple local areas? Say - a mass transit project, which may call for an underpass in one local area (so they would oppose), but provide connectivity to other local area (who would have proposed in the first place).
Without making two basic things clear (budgets - how the money flows, and responsibility - what can or can NOT the local committees do and change) - I don't think the participation is going to get any wider.
Now, in the Praja spirit, can't just criticise, have to provide alternatives too. They would include things like:
- Publish budget for local areas in advance
- Make it clear to public that there is a separate city-wide budget too, city-wide budget is meant for larger-geo-spread/larger-impact-area projects
- Local committees have control over local area budget. If control is impractical, atleast full transparency.
- Local committee's vote is a deciding factor in projects that are funded from city-wide budget. There must be enough publicity about this fact, so that citizens take the committees seriously.
- Local committees can be virtual (meetings using skype/google hangout etc)
- Local committee votes can be virtual (no constraint to be present physically to vote)
- There is a law that makes my employer NOT count half day / full day leave if I go take part in local committee proceedings :)
- Controversial one, but here it is. Each committee member should disclose her political affiliation - just let us know who you voted for in the last local election. would be good to be transparent about political leanings of the local committee.
We know that 1/2/3/4 would not be easy - corruption etc come in on all matters that concern spending of public money. Transparency would hurt established interests, so its not easy. But sadly, unless I know that I can influence how public money gets spent, or at least go and count every paise of public money spent in my local area, I am not likely to find it worthwhile to sacrifice half day of work to take part in local events or local committees.
In the above paragraph, "I" = this group:
- 25-40 age group citizens,
- employed, working full time,
- are interested in 'these' things, but are seen to be apathetic,
- and, are routinely called out to as "middle class that doesn't care much" by many news reports.
Thanks for reading. This is a tricky topic, but dont think we have managed a deep discussion on this subject on Praja so far.
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reward for putting in time, but ...
A clarification regarding making things "virtual".
"fears"
This post assumes that those who are 'free' & can participate (like murali/pathy, activists etc) may not worthy of it. This is the same "fear" that is driving the politicians to not implement this. So should we accept status quo & not have anybody participate because some of us cannot, however imperfect it might be?
I think to address this "fear" we need to know the scope of activities the participatory committee & the level of transparency that this will bring to the rest of the "non-participating" affected population. Can we take help of these 'free' people to convey our views better than we can now?
oh yes IDS, thanks.
Thanks for that comment IDS, for pointing out a possible unintended communication there. Those who are managing to attend/engage today - their time and efforts are ABSOLUTELY worth it. I have modified the disclaimer in the original post to make sure that this miscommunication on worthiness doesn't happen.
Who is worthy or not worthy of engaging is nobody's business to decide. Purpose of engagement is not to decide technical merits of any proposal, but to question or justify the results expected from any proposal, no matter who brings it up to ask for public money.
However, practically speaking, the engagement worthiness today is determined by through availability of time to attend the meetings/events. I have heard this theory from multiple people, including some IAS officers, new-gen leaders etc. "if people have the interest, they should come", "my doors are always open, why didn't you come sooner", "if you really like the cause, bunk office one day and come" etc.
The justification for this theory is that 1) this weeds out "non serious" citizens, and 2) that it naturally tends to bring in people with experience and maturity. This second part has some merit to it. The first one, probably not.
TRANSPARENCY is a must!
Absolutely loved the thoughts on budget and the introduction of more transparency in the system..if these ward committes can do that it will be more than what we can expect!
That way all public will be aware for example about situations where and why footpaths are being redone/reshuffled every 6 months in certain localities and never touched in certain others(MG road etc)
Also I kind of agree on the thought about ' "if people have the interest, they should come"..isnt Praja working that way now? Do we ever miss a weekday meeting at DULT or elsewhere? why do we do it..cos we have obligated to the cause!
WARD committees
The suggestions by Pranav and comments by others are very useful.
The W.C.s are being formed after long delay reluctantly and half-heartedly.
Though I have put in my application, have been told it was too late.
So far, so good.
On behalf of Janaagraha I used to convene monthly 'Citizens Forum- Ward 74 (now 88)'. All stake holders were invited and so were the citizens. In course of time, though the officials-BBMP, Traffic Police, Health officer, BWSSB etc. used to come the number of citizens dwindled to such an extent, I had to give up.
Now as Ward Committees are formed with several resonsibilities, the Citizens Forums can be revived and have dialogue with W.C.s to take the idea forward.
Though the present set up may not be ideal, at least a beginning has been made. It is upto the citzens in respective wards to keep a watch on their functioning and effect improvements in due course.
K.V.Pathy
A million dollar question?
Whether Ward committees will workout or not as expected is a million dollar question. I for one would rather appreciate if the present garbage crisis is managed properly as it should be by International standards, in our city of Bangalore. The citizens of our city deserve this.
One certainly does not need to be
What is required is certainly the establishment of an efficient system for
“Garbage management”
This includes the following steps:-
What is required is a solution for the present crisis. How about a PRAJA project?
Garbage problem
Dear Mr. Anantram,
As the Karnataka High court found that BBMP is not able to manage, it has asked for the formation of Ward Committees one of whose duties is garbage disposal at ward level itself.
The functioning of ward committees is yet to be seen.
Of course a PRAJA project can be started.
K.V.Pathy
garbage issue vis a vis ward commitees
I am afriad no where in the traditional media, e groups ,social networks or in the High court has the real issue ( in my opinion) been addressed , let alone talked about with regard to solid watse management.
In fact it has gone so far away to now see ward commitees as the solution .
I believe it is not a qestion of segregation, waste management technologies or even local governance (though of course all this helps.)What is not talked about is the very real and ugly Contractor mafia that run the garbage clearance in this city.And with the citys' corporators in their pocket there is absolutely no control over this group.
The Mandur issue is not about landfills , but about landfills done wrongly and brazenly wrongly by the mafia leading to an absolute ecological disaster.
Ther are many places in the world ( developed coutries too) where landfills are employed , but not in the sick manner of benguluru.
Just do some maths , there is probably( and all on the inside track agree) about 1000 tons over estimate on a daily basis of the amount of waste generated or rather the waste paid for by the corporation.And this has been going on ad infinitum
Not much the ward commitee is going to do about that , unless there is a gun toting vigilante on the commitee.
vmenon
Our garbage is not weighed at all
@ vmenon
Is there a 1000 tons over estimate?
There is no actual weighing done at all! Our people are too good at estimating for convenience! Garbage needs to be weighed before any payment is made for the services. This is an international practice. Our corporation seemingly does not bother about such trivial issues.
Garbage Trail
Please see the grass root level work being done by Mr. Ashwin Mahesh.
K.V.Pathy
https://www.facebook.com/...
wonder whats the number!
BBMP claims 4,000 Tonnes per day..and they were out to measure that since last week..wonder what happened..
more here
ALso the plan to weigh the garbage in the city doesnt make sense..guess it will need to get measured before the dumping happens..that way we are exactly sure what is being weighed is being dumped..else the same truck will be measured multiple times within the city!
High time BBMP takes note of these developments.
I thank you Mr. Pathy, for the link. The article by Prof Ashwin Mahesh of IIM Bangalore is an eye opener. Hope BBMP takes note of it and implements the best garbage management plan for our city. Here is the full Face Book article:-
It would be nice if some of us could join the proffessor on such visits.
I should admit of my ignorence about the meaning of DWCC Acronym used by the professor. The meaning here which looks reasonable is David Winter Collectors Club who collect glass items.
DWCC is already there!
I see the DWCC operaters daily during my morning walk. We know them as rag pickers. Many are on trycycles carrying huge plastic sacs!
The rag picker as we call them. Actually he is a DWCC[India]!!
DWCC is mentioned in the
DWCC is mentioned in the article itself - dry waste collection center!