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Meanwhile I had the opportunity to get a first hand idea on the proposed Traffic flow as suggested by Mr Subramanya - Commissioner BBMP who was on his regular schedule monitoring the work.
(View Large image for Details)
Here are some important points.
The Junction is proposed to have a signal free passage of traffic
The Flyover would have 4 Lanes 2 each on either direction ( 7 + 7 Meters road width)
Only Traffic headed to Cauvery Jn and from Cauvery Jn would pass over the flyover.
All other traffic is designed to flow at the lower level.
Please ref the attached Traffic flow Image.
I found 2 possible Issues that could come up
1) U Turn at NTI
We are going to have mixing of high
speed vehicles headed to Cauvery Jn and the slower U turn vehicles
merging right in the center of the road. We are also going to see
traffic pile up at the entry of the U turn due to the not-so-easy
U-turn exit.
2) the Road behind Palace Lodge is
fairly narrow and is a residential area.
This re routing of traffic thru that
road is going to result in some congestion.
There are some benefits of having Signal less traffic there are some hazardous effects too. For traffic from Mekhri circle towards Windsor manor Junction the first traffic junction is going to be the NTI U turn, Underpass and the turn off to Palace Road, Be prepared to see some traffic snarls.
I hope other Traffic flow experts can give their views.
Looking forward to some interesting discussions here.
Regards
--
Praveen
AkA PhotoYogi
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woah!!
Thanks for the BDA junction update
Yogi Sir,
Thanks for the updates.
Syed
Thanks, Photoyogi
Nice pictures & good information, thanks.
Are the two opposing flow directions (from near NTI towards BDA Jn) separated by levels or a barrier /divider ? If so, it should be okay since in through flowing traffic conditions, even a narrow road lane is capable of handling large volumes.
The U-turn, if clearly marked, should also work well, as traffic will flow smooth without disruption on the other lane/s.
The narrow stretch behind palace lodge however, being a residential area might take some beating as all traffic headed towards Cauvery Jn from Cantonment /Palace Main gate will be passing thro' it & if there are vehicles parked, can slow traffic down as also lead to pile ups very quickly.
the U-turn
That NTI U-turn could be a significant issue. A separate waiting lane (for traffic coming from Mekhari Circle - so that traffic waiting for U-turn doesn't cause a big block) and then a joining lane to manage the merge should help here. You have drawn a cone/cup like thing in the image, is that the plan!?
Also, didn't understand the weird arrows between palace compound and palace lodge. Between palace lodge, and the hard divider, is there going to be traffic flowing in both directions - notice the red arrow when it emerges from the magic box, and the yellow arrows above and below it ?? Will there at least be another hard divider to separate the two directions?
I am referring this diagram:
U-Turn At NTI -- Needed?
SB>> "That NTI U-turn could be a significant issue. A separate waiting lane (for traffic coming from Mekhari Circle - so that traffic waiting for U-turn doesn't cause a big block) and then a joining lane to manage the merge should help"
Praveen>> Please note the exit from the cauvery Underpass is also adding traffic to this very same U-turn Lane. When the "airport traffic" starts i do see this as a problem. SB>> "here. You have drawn a cone/cup like thing in the image, is that the plan!?" Praveen>> That cone like structure already has been constructed and i was told its pukka. (I will re-edit this post with pictures some time later this evening)
SB>> Also, didn't understand the weird arrows between palace compound and palace lodge. Between palace lodge, and the hard divider, is there going to be traffic flowing in both directions - notice the red arrow when it emerges from the magic box, and the yellow arrows above and below it ?? Will there at least be another hard divider to separate the two directions?"
Praveen>> OK i guess I could have done better at sketch will try to see how i can refine the schematic. The Red and Blue arrows represent traffic that flows above the Flyover. All the yellow arrows arrows are slower traffic at the road level. This is a photo towards Palace / Cantt Station. I was told in there would be a small circle / Umbrella for Cop in the middle.
There would be Water filled plastic separators that have been marked in the schematic that is online. So what happens is when you look at traffic from Mekhri circle to Windsor manor Jn there is a U turn to Malleswaram / Guttahalli passing thru the Magic box. This is what came to my mind:
The U turn at NTI can be eliminated and the Magic box @ BDA be used as a pass thru as well as a U turn back towards Cauvery Junction, with suitable alteration in the traffic patern. that way the narrow road behind Palace lodge can remain a less used road too. This will also ensure the traffic flow towards the cauvery Jn will be smooth.
On second thoughts, I assume the cauvery Junction is not wide enought to handle higher density faster movement, this NTI Uturn will work as a buffer (read speed breaker) to the oncoming traffic, there by make it look more smooth.
Any views on this SB/TS others?
--
Praveen Sundaram
AkA PhotoYogi
-- PhotoYogi
Re: the U- turn
Even I see the u-turn at NTI as a potential bottle neck.
Build up of vehicles for U-turn will hamper the traffic wanting to take the straight road. Because of the erratic drivers who would try to go ahead rather than waiting in a single queue. This needs to be controlled in some way by proper barricading of the u-turn queue and proper direction boards (many of them) well before the u-turn so the people get in the queue sooner.
All U-turn thro' Magic Box ?
Photoyogi :
// The U turn at NTI can be eliminated and the Magic box @ BDA be used as a pass thru as well as a U turn back towards Cauvery Junction, with suitable alteration in the traffic patern. that way the narrow road behind Palace lodge can remain a less used road too. This will also ensure the traffic flow towards the cauvery Jn will be smooth //
In my opinion, this cannot work !
How will traffic on the narrow road behind Palace lodge remain less used ? In addition to the traffic from cantt side, you now added ones coming from mekhri circle & bound for Bashyam circle too.
Judging by yr drawing, no alteration of flow directions is possible as conflicts will occur. A vehicle cannot turn from the neck of the underpass, it has to be out of the mouth & then execute the turn. Such a turn to the right will conflict with vehicles using the other underpass going in the other direction !
What about the additional distance for the traffic from mekhri circle & bound for Bashyam circle ? It is quite a distance from Cauvery Jn to BDA Jn, is'nt it ?
U turns thru the Magic Box -- rethink
Hi Naveen,
Thanks for your views, I think will clarify a couple of things as per my understanding.
a) The current Traffic pattern schematic is what is proposed by the BBMP I assume in consultation with the Bangalore Traffic Police.
b) The Distance from the Cauvery Jn To the BDA Jn is about ~800 meters
The distance from the current NTI "U" turn to the Magic Box elements is about ~100m
c) All traffic bound from Windsor manor Jn towards Cauvery travel only over the Flyover
b) Any traffic servicing the Houses / Offices along the BDA side will be at road level but have to take a left turn leading to the Guttahalli / Malleswaram.
Now my argument is as follows:
As a resident of that area there existed a U turn around the same point where the Magic Box currently stands which is why i had naturally recomended the same.
The other reason for my recommendation, that if the NTI U turn is removed and traffic flows thru the Magic box it will come out in the correct direction along with the flow from Windsor manor joining Cauvery Junction.
But then the Underpass will not become signal less and would have to be manned.
Now, the question arises how do the chaps from Malleshwaram get to Windsor manor side or cantt station which will then send this off on a huge circuitous loop, via the narrow cauvery junction underpass which is a worse case which i would not want to recommend.
With these reasons i would Agree with you :-) I hold back my comment until i can come up with some thing that will justify my argument.
--
Praveen Sundaram
AkA PhotoYogi
-- PhotoYogi
U-turn - is it needed?
Is the U-turn really needed at NTI? If you see the traffic, all of it comes from Mekhri u/p (barring occasional non-regular users when some exhibitions/functions happen within palace grounds with exits between Mekhri u/p and cauvery junction). So, it makes sense to route this traffic via Sadashivnagar. That is, they should proceed over the Mekhri u/p towards IISc and then take left turn (I think second or third) that joins Bhashyam circle.
I think U-turn should be completely removed - there is no need to have it! Those non-regular users who join this road inbetween can always go towards BDA jn, take left towards cantt. and take a U-turn deeper into the road and come back and pass under the BDA u/p to go towards Bhashyam circle - this shouldn't be a hassle as they won't use it regularly and this traffic volume too would be low.
Malleswaram towards Cantt /Windsor Manor
Do you need to use cauvery jn underpass ?? I dont think, but am not sure.
What I think is, as marked on the picture - you need to arrive on the road nearer to NTI (I think this is possible), turn left into the magic box, go straight, if headed to cantt or take a U turn & again turn left & join the traffic headed towards Windsor Manor.
Am I correct ?
Malleshwaram to cantt & U turns
Naveen, Please ref my sketch,
Proposed Traffic Flow
The proposed left turn as you come down Windsor Manor right opposite the Magic Box elements used to be one way in the opposite direction than as what has now been proposed. please see
my earlier traffic analysis at the BDA Jn
This used to be a rather busy junction with traffic wait times of 120 sec to 300 sec in peak hours. This road used to service users from Malleshwaram headed to Cant station or central Business areas. Now this traffic will be routed thru the turn before NTI and will pass in the right side of the road for a brief section and take a left turn into the Magic Box and go thru.
Now, If this access is removed users from Malleshwaram and other areas will have to approach cant station and Central business areas (MG Road etc) via
1) Bhasyam Circle - sadashivnagar - Cauvery Underpass and then Sanky road
2) Swastik - Shivananda circle - Chalukya Junction Sankey road
now both these alternate routes are already congested. This is what i had in mind when i supported your reasoning.
As I look at how the solution has been arrived at looks like the planners want to distribute the congestion that exists and not really address the issue with the right tools. i.e. providing dependable working public transport.
-- Praveen Sundaram AkA PhotoYogi
-- PhotoYogi
Photoyogi - Great Drawing !
You've done a real neat job, great & clear picture - only the lines are a bit too thin. Also, I understand the point now - you cannot use this route from Malleswaram to Cantt via BDA Jn left turn ! Correct ?
With your re-markings however, you realize there are numerous conflicts :
Examples are :
1) U turn at BDA is from top to bottom thro' left underpass; BDA to palace /cantt is thro' the same underpass, but in an opposite direction; Palace to Cauvery Jn is from top to bottom on right underpass & will conflict with BDA to palace /cantt.
2) BDA turn to Windsor Manor is from bottom to top on right underpass & is in the opposite direction of Palace to cauvery Jn.
3) Windsor Manor to Gangenahalli is on bottom & will conflict with BDA to Windsor Manor.
There may be more.
To manage this, there will have to be two cops at each end of the tunnels with communication between them to halt & start flows indicated, which may not be a practicable solution. When cops are not there, there will be vehicles blocked inside the underpasses, facing one another.
The earlier plan was far better & allowed signal free flows in all cases. The only problem is the narrow road you mentioned. Is there no approach to the road near NTI from malleswaram anywhere ? If you come on to that, it shd be possible to go via BDA Jn, is'nt it ?
BDA Jn Traffic flow
-- PhotoYogi
NTI U Turn, BDA Jn - Photo update
Here is a Photo update of the NTI U turn, My Sketch shows a cup like structure but its actually only half the cup.
The exit of the U turn seems OK
Meanwhile the Road above the Flyover seems to be getting its final coat of tar
Notice the exit of the flyover to the road before the U-turn, there is a small park/trees in the middle of the road that is causing a bottle neck. I love Green Bangalore and am not for cutting down trees but i guess this will have to go to make way for the traffic.
-- Praveen Sundaram AkA PhotoYogi
-- PhotoYogi
woah! woah!!
Great!
So they have waiting and merging lanes at the spot of the U-turn on Bellary Road!! Great. But, the strategy has to be U-turns with waiting lanes, but at longer intervals.
In general, we should appreciate the attempt at making Bellary junction signal free. But I think the attempt should instead be to have 1 signal per 3-4 kilometers, which is where the U-turns/left turns would be available with waiting lanes. Without a good number signals (dams) at regular intervals, too much traffic (water) will collect at the one or two that will exist, and area before the first signal or choking point will flood (submerge) with traffic (water).
Some more things around pedestrians should help further
- Road over/under bridges for ped-crossing
- Metal barricades on pavements long Bellary Road to prevent pedestrian spillover on the road
- Construction of smooth pavements all along, to discourage pedestrians from walking on the road
Basically, road work needs to be complimented with small touch ups to prevent "entropy" along the edges of the road. Or else, we wont get the full value of these magic box investments.trees dont have to go!
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
trees
Looks Great !
Photoyogi: Very good pictures again, thanks.
SB's post - What about the pedestrian subway ? Are there proper arrangements for entry /exit with protection /safety & means to prevent intrusion /parking of 2-wheelers inside ? TS had posted a nice arrangement drawing earlier, with bollards to prevent entry & misuse.
Also, you did'nt specify if it is possible to go from Malleswaram to Cantt via BDA Jn with the new flow pattern to be followed. I was looking up the map & saw a possible route of reaching this road near NTI :
Using Bhadra Temple St from Swimming pool extn (past Vinayaka circle), & on Guttahalli (2nd) main road - Venkata swamy raju rd, & then branching off to this road off NTI - what do you think ? Maybe this can work to avoid going past Cauvery Jn or Swastik ?
Will sample BDA junction on May 24
This looks a decent job. Will get a chance to sample the final product on the way back from BIAL on May 24.
Srivathsa
Drive safe. It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.
my thoughts on the bda magic box.
I happened to go over the magic boxes at the BDA junction yesterday, and my first thoughts were not very pleasant about the flyover (overpass whatever). I was going from cauvery junction towards windsor manor and there were a few things I noticed right away:
1) The ramp is a bit steep and not so smooth.
2) The approach from the cauvery junction side is not such a straight road, you need to go a little towards the right and then towards the left to align your vehicle for a proper approach.
3) The railings on the sides of the overpass/flyover should be a little more higher and stronger. I fear over enthusiastic drivers (specially at night)
Still it is a step forward and hopefully will smoothen the flow of traffic to some extent.