Metro PH 2 routes optimal?

Sri - sure looks like you have serious doubts about the establishments !  I have been following this & will give you my opinions, as I see them ...

What is the traffic study supporting these new routes and extensions? how is it integrating with other modes of transport ?

Coming off from a 1994 study for ELRTS, a 2003 study was made by DMRC & this was followed up with CTTP-2007 by RITES - see this thread for full details of all studies. Routes had been recommended from Electronic city to Yelahanka (via Nagwara) & also from Bannerghatta National park.

There is lot of secrecy in the way the DPR is being handled

Study reports were available on public domain - I had copies of all of them (still have some).

What about public involvement in the DPR process?

I think DPRs are based on heavy civil & construction engineering that cannot easily be understood - I had earlier had a peek at the ph-1 DPR consisting of some 3-4 volumes of books.

DMRCL is no way a competent authority to write DPR's as they are the least connected to the round realities and do not understand patterns in commuter movement..why not thrash out the routes in public..have a meaningful discussion and then go for implementation..

I think an experienced agency that is capable of evaluating traffic study report/s would qualify to prepare detailed DPRs. Route recommendations were probably refined by BMRC based on CTTP & other studies & DMRC probably prepared DPRs since they have experience in making recommendations for the various challenges that would normally be encountered with heavy viaduct & tunnelling construction.

ITPL integration came as an after thouht while implementing phase I, whereas it was the obvious choice of commuters even before phase I started..wouldnt it have been better to have the termination of the line at white field with the shed and other facilities on the out skirts of the city?

ITPL is not the only place that needs to be connected & it might seem like an obvious choice for a Metro route to tech workers working there. However, the city has several such activity centers where there is similar, if not more demand (Mysore rd, Peenya, EC /Bommasandra, ORR-south east, newly emerging Sarjapur rd, etc, not to mention Majestic, Cantt, etc) -- & priorities might keep shifting as & when new developments take place.

I was equally surprised & had figured that the NS line could have run on Hosur rd rather than Kanakapura rd, & the EW line could have commenced at Whitefield.

To secure loans & approvals, it takes a lot of time to first prepare traffic studies, then get govt approvals & then approach financial agencies to secure loans on the basis of these studies endorsing financial viability. Meanwhile, demographics within the city might have changed & I think this was probably why ITPL was not included - Bangalore is a case in point where priorities have kept shifting each few years.

Several more depots might come up - Byp was probably convenient since govt land was available & it is also within easy commute distance for workers.

I do not see any sense in the Jayanagar to Electronics City via Jayadeva Hospital, BTM Layout and Silk Board route..instead the IIM-Nagavara line could have turned into BTM atJayadeva and turn into Madivala at SIlkBoard..this way it would have catered to HSR layout and other catchment areas...

Well, traffic studies also indicate that Bannerghatta rd needs mass transit.

From SIlkBoard..a BRTS is the best option now to head to EC

Again, traffic studies indicate that BETL alone would not suffice & a Metro route was warranted, as per CTTP-2007 report.

the metro route is not exactly matching the proposals....We do not know what they have considered and how!

I assume monorail /light rail is not being considered since there will be serious issues with profit-sharing & common ticketing since ticket prices for monorail will be much higher than Metro - this also implies that commuting will be more expensive if one has to change from metro to mono & vice-versa, as it is everywhere else. Besides, the state will have to shell out heavily to private operators on a monthly basis irrespective of ridership levels throughout the concession period/s. It might thus be better to go for metro, & this will also provide for higher capacities to meet future demands. Hence, it is my belief that metro is being pursued in preference to monorail & the CTTP plans are being modified to take this to account.

BETL is going under loss even today...putting  a metro will totally kill it!

I think both will become necessary since they address different segments, also these developments are not just for today or the short-term -- they are being considered as solutions for the long-term. As regards BETL, do you have any source that proves that they are making heavy losses ?

Most important thing is integration with other modes to transport...this is totally missing now with the current implementation..!!

I think commuter rail to serve urban needs is also out since the routing of tracks is not really suitable though many may arguie about it's cost efficiencies, etc etc, but the fact is they will not attract the bulk of the commuters. Commuter rail can be used for suburban services.

In the absense of monorail & commuter rail, integration will be necessary only with buses & this is easy to work out as & when necessary. BMTC is going on building TTMCs on it's properties & this is questionable, but I don't think BMRC is responsible for this.

they can plan a depot in whitefield or Kengeri (cheaper there)..they can as  well move all the infra at BYP to that place and use the real estate at BYP to build something useful as its closer to CBD!

This argument can be extended to several installations in the city, more appropriately to defense & research establishments such as DRDO, ADA & ISRO since common civilians have little to do with any of them. Parade grounds are centrally located real estate too. However, all of these still remain or will shift out if & when needed.

I am just curious to know if you have any ideas as to what is better there in place of the depot, other than malls & residential /commercial developments that will choke up the space ? I can only think of green spaces !

to provide 2 new interchange stations 

Exactly - see the map below. If there are direct radial lines converging at city centre, commuters will need to pass thro' city centre even if their destinations are on the same side of town. Arranging interchange nodes in CBD corners does away with this & one would only have to reach the nearest node to change over.

The govt has cleared phase 2, but completion is a long way off ! Related news reports :

Cabinet approves two new lines for Phase 2

Majestic Metro long way off, Ph-1 completion 2015

Cabinet clears Ph-2

Apart from the important routing and DPR discussions, we need to look at implementation schedule. We have seen quite a few problems with Ph1 implementation. Hope lessons are learnt and applied when Ph2 kicks off. New routes proposed pass through some of the most congested arteries in the city, and we cannot affort to keep them cardoned off for decades. Do we have any idea on the planning / logistics? Or is it too early?

The proposed extension to ITPL was announced in the Phase 2 approval; This corridor has 14 stations -- Jyothipuram, KR Puram, Narayanapura, Mahadevapura, Garudacharpalya, Doddanakundi, Visvesvaraya Industrial Estate, Kundalahalli, Vaidehi Hospital, Satyasai Medical Institute, ITPL, Kadugodi, Ujwala Vidyalaya and Whitefield.  I tried to create an alignment based on Google maps but some stations were not in the logical path e.g. Garudacharpalya, Doddanakundi, Visvesvaraya Industrial Estate and Kadugodi, Ujwala Vidyalaya and Whitefield, unless by Whitefield they mean Whitefield station – can someone intelligent on Bangalore localities and geography please give a shot at deciphering the actual alignment.

Same request for alignment for the IIMB to Nagavara corridor!!

Please post me your email & I will send you a map with better resolution - you may see the stations in sequential order along the line/s.

Try this link for DH article.

Also, another article here.

dhttp://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n602/docaneesh/reach1stns-1.jpg

Here's the link..

And Doddanekkundi = Doddanekkundi industrial area (near Gopalan school/bhoruka gases)

Kadugodi = Kadugodi Industrial Area (near BPL,MICO)

Whitefield = Whitefield Railway station

Have a doubt on the alignment near Hanging Bridge and KR Puram Railway Station Hanging Bridge.

probably going south of the hanging bridge

The Whitefield extension will proceed at grade (probably), parallel, adjacent & south of existing railway tracks (under the hanging bridge) before it starts ramping up to align itself with Whitefield road.

Going in parallel to the existing SWR tracks at Grade with Third Rail, I am thinking how safe it would be. Also railways non-coperation movement will start like on the Tumkur track for Reach 3.

I love the idea of going Grade but not having sufficient technical knowledge would not know why that sometime poses a problem. Considering that it will eliminate the need for pillars and sections it would also be less time consuming. If they went Grade along Old Madras Rd. (shell bunk/big bazzar and RMZ) under the Salem Line, along Tin Factory and over Lowry Memorial and then gradually went elevated along Mahadevapura until the termination at Whitefield station it would make sense. The Dallas Area Rapid Transport Trains are mainly grade with potions going underground and elevated as an e.g.

Comments?

Also can someone in the group explain the Nagavara to IIMB corridor in the same amount of detail?

Why there no information abt narayanapura{white field road} phase 2 station .There are many rumers abt station y no one is clarifing