Hindu fundamentals under attack

Thanks for starting this, because let me admit, I didn't have the guts to start one such thread myself. Past few days, it seems like certain liberties are under attack. Orissa, Karnataka, The bomb blasts have religious color on them. Other similar events may not have religious color. But one thing in common is that the notion that law and order has to be above all else is growing weak.

• A CEO getting lynched to death by a mob is crime. Whether there was justification or provocation or not doesn't matter.
• A nun getting gang raped in Orissa is perhaps a crime worst than murder. Provocations don't matter.
• Vandalising churches is goondagiri, forced conversions may too be branded as polished goondagiri. But tit for tat is not the way to deal with things in civilized setups.
• Blasts killing innocents are just that, crimes of worst order. If any past events were provocations, those too were crimes. Step a notch down from all these events.

Take the religious cover off for a moment and read some other experiences I can share.

• A grocery shop-keeper decides to sell milk one day. The 'self professed' authorized milk dealer of the area doesn't like that and beats the shop's attendants black and blue.
• A friend calls BBMP to complain about an illegal structure coming up on a main road without any provision for parking. Forget privacy and all, goons show up next day to remind that one should only mind his own business.
• Owner of a property refuses to sell out to a builder who wants to build a private layout in the area. He then gets slapped with frivolous notices after notices, gets his water and electricity connections cut on regular basis. All this, till he relents and sells out.
• A sundry traffic cop beats up a young well-meaning guy for he could't lodge his complaint in kannada, and then locks him up. And that young guy's father has no help, nowhere to go to complain.
• A new shop shows up with a lot of glass to show, and the owner is not a native kannadiga. Folks show up asking for money or .... Next day, a red/gold flag shows up on the commercial building's front facade, and its business as usual.

The basic fabric of law and order has grown too weak. And since a majority of us don't get to deal with all this (except small business owners) on daily basis, we have been living in ignorance.

Police reforms are long pending. The 'last mile' setup of our law and order infrastructure (eyes and ears of police) are just too weak and inefficient. Everything I refer to above (blasts to riot to goondagiri), at some level or other is a result of that. However, we get to see the symptoms in religious or regional fundamentalist or whatever colors.

Its time. Its long pending, and something that just needs to be done, and needs to be done now. Law has to rule and rule firm, everything else comes later.

Usually nations progresses in the civilization, thought process and human good. But its a Tragedy in India and other countries, instead of progressing, we are digressing in the basic human relationships. If early 20th century gave the gift of nationalism and a cause for standing upto foreign rulers, late 20th century seems to have lost this battle for ethnicity based on religion, regionalism and language. The fear of marginalization has taken the journey from complaining of high handedness to assertion of their rights. Mixed with political and power, this assertion has taken the form of arms aggression and even justifying the killing of few thousands. All in the name of religious doctrines or spontaneous reaction (newtons law). If one has to closely analyze this, this is nothing but COMPETITIVE VICTIMHOOD. All these pseudo-nationalist/Pseudo-Fundamentalist are competing with each other in proving that one is more victim than the other. Otherwise how do you explain people becoming refugees in their own land. Unless people stop looking for murderous revenge and ideology of hate, India will continue to witness riots, assaults and killings. For the serenity to prevail, a total 180 degree shift in attitude is required. From everybody. Majority and Minority. Majority should shed the fear that minority would ascend to the throne. Majority should stop worrying about minority's progress in economic and social stature. On the same token minorities should stop projecting themselves as oppressed and victims. A lot of water has flown into Ganges, Kaveri, Krishna and Godavari. Instead of asking for alms and charity (special treatments), should learn to earn their share by competing with majority. For that Education is the key. Basically, we all need to shed this cloak of majority and minority for real progress and betterment in life. Instead of asking for individual favors lets fight for others rights. Lets fight for education to all, health care for all, fight for affordable living, fight for just police and judicial system, fight for better political parties and leaders. This is not an impossible task. Take the example of recent J C Nagar mosque incident. Local youth and citizens stood ground to see that not a single untoward incident takes place. Things were normal in few hours without any major incidents.

MCadambi, Can you please enlighten me on "hindutva economics"? The means are as important as the ends. Please remember that Hinduism has survived 1000 years of Muslim rule and 200 years of British rule without needing the Bajrang Dal or the Shiv Sena or the VHP. Upper caste Hindus have treated lower caste Hindus as sub-humans for many centuries and even now. If some of them want to leave the fold (whether for a blanket or for rice) what is the problem? Terrorism is an attack on the state and the nation. Not necessarily on Hinduism (which btw like it or not is not the state religion). It affects all law abiding people. Last but not least - Hindus make up the majority of this country. A very high probability that they make up the bulk of legislators, bureaucrats, local bodies, etc. So one can blame most of the ills of this country on Hindus. Muslims have to constantly prove their patriotism, but why is it assumed that Hindus are born patriots? Sd/- An ex-Hindu atheist.

"Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society." from Wikipedia. Since you insist on bashing Nehru here is some food for thought "There is reliable evidence that Nehru did not impose state control , Indian industrialists wanted it. The Bombay Plan, issued in 1944, not by the government of India or the constituent assembly, but by a group of leading “capitalists” of the country, insisted that “the State should exercise, in the interests of the community, a considerable measure of intervention and control”. They called out energy, infrastructure, and transport as requiring state monopoly! The plan also prescribed “an enlargement of the positive as well as preventative functions of the state” as “essential” to large-scale economic planning. There was also the question of India’s recent painful brush with imperialism, which it associated, quite reasonably at that time, with capitalism. It wasn’t surprising, given the prevailing mood, that the framers of the Indian constitution included directive principles to ensure that “the ownership and control of the material resources of the community are so distributed so as to best serve the common good”, etc." See more here http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2004/09/07/stories/2004090700010800.htm I agree with you on his daughter who institutionalized corruption in India. The other thing with the RSS philosophy is that someone else is always the cause of problems - either Muslims or Christians or Marxists or Nehru or Gandhi. When it is convenient Scheduled Castes become part of this great and glorious Hindu nation with a great and glorious past. When not they are treated like dirt. Srivathsa

Today's Hindu had an article: Maoists claim responsibility for killing of VHP leader (http://www.hindu.com/2008/10/05/stories/2008100560400800.htm) It says, "The Orissa State committee of the Communist Party of India (Maoist) on Saturday claimed that it killed Vishwa Hindu Parishad leader Swami Lakshmanananda in Kandhamal district on August 23." And goes on to suggest, "Sabyasachi Panda, alias Sunil, said it became necessary to eliminate the Swami as he was forcing tribals and Dalit Christians in Kandhamal to convert to Hinduism." So conversion isn't something unique to "a" religion!

The proof is in the pudding for all to see. We can see how thriving Gujarat is and how regressing our dear sickular Waste Bengal is. If India has to progress - <edited out, no hate mongering please {blr_editor}>

Violence never solves any problem. It just aggrevates it. How can acts such as ruthless murder, mass graves and gang rapes be justified? Communal Violence is equal to Terrorist attacks!In fact its often greater in calamity and human loss. While we Debate communcal violence, we condemn the other! Why shoud we? They both create equal amount of loss, destain and attrocities - both must be condemed equally and treated with equal force! I second Murali's views, people have the freedom to choose who they wish to follow. if they are offered benefits by joining another religion, then they should be allowed to use those benfits. We cannot put religion before a person's sucess, happiness and development in life. Mcadambi: "The English language media will sings paens in praise of missionaries in this area but will not even mention the good work done even by non-RSS groups such as Baba Amte, HH Chinna Jeeyar or Nanaji Deshmukh." If you do great work, with through passion, you don't really look for recognition. The media must never be looked at as a reward for great work. I do not jude a decision (any decision) purely on media's knowledge. But you cannot justify two goods with a wrong.Any organisations (and i am NOT pointing fingers here) cannot be gievn free passes to crimes because of thier good deeds.

Why do we not see these things from the law and order failure angle first and everything else much much later? I tried to steer this discussion that way above, and failed. Try once more I will, why? Because I have seen some of this up close when growing up.

Sikhs were killed in my city after Mrs Gandhi's death. The "riots" in my neighborhood were triggered by jobless creatures, half of them paid for by some folks (no proof, I only 'heard'), and the other half very interested in robbing the houses of fleeing Sikh families and grabbing nice TVs and radios for their huts. At least the second set, I know for sure, was never caught or punished.

I saw bandhs, by all types of parties, regional, communist or national. Each time, I saw how shopkeepers were unwillingly made to down shutters, and then how all that showed up in next day's newspapers as "successful bandh". The guys who 'enforced' the bandhs - we knew some of them, but cops never bothered to 'know' them.

Then, I heard (in my growing up days) on how happy people felt when police (matter not proven, still in courts I believe) tried the acid treatment to enforce rule of law in a city (refer movie 'Gangajal', google "Bhagalpur acid").

Why make you run down personal memoirs of law and order observations? On top of some observations shared in the first comment here, take some recent events at Bangalore.

• Stone a few cars if a 100-people rally turns 'angry'.
• Go torch a bus if it knocks down a pedestrian (incident from airport road, 1.5 years ago).
• How many of you saw mobs burning public property live on TV after Dr Rajkumar's natural death? Remember HDK's promise that he'd use camera feeds to catch the arsonists and punish them? Did that happen?

Look. A diverse society like ours will always have the extremists, and they will always find the so-called justification or provocation to "tip over" and take law in their hands. But these "tipping over" tendencies start and take root via these umpteen experiences and observation that tell us that law can't really catch up. Couldn't it be that the extreme symptoms we are seeing now are seeded in these lax interpretation or implementation of law and order at lower and basic levels?

I don't really want to get into the Hindutva talk here, but I have one simple observation on Hindu-Muslim thing that a comment above might be trying to jump to. How many Muslims do I know to pass judgments on one full big community? Sadly enough, despite being a secular at heart and non-judgmental (so I think), I don't have one good Muslim friend (I mean personal, local friend) today. Don't go by the needless talk about Bollywood Khans and Indian cricket team having Muslim stars. Ask yourself this honest question, do you mingle enough to know the community? Interaction is the only way communities understand each other. When that basic thing has reduced (at least by my empirical and personal observation, compared to 15-20 years ago), all we tend to go by is what we read and see in mainstream media.

Is that really a good thing?

As Srivatsa said, neither he nor I am in this site to make enemies. We are all interested in a good and great city, perhaps then become a beacon to the country as a whole. This site was exclusively meant for civic issues not for identity politics. This will be my last post on this thread. I apologise for any personal criticism - which was not my intention in the first place. Jai Hind!

SB,

You make excellent points.  Lawlessness is on the increase simply because precedents have been set where one knows that nothing will happen if I break a law. 

The other night I was on my way back from the airport and all of us were waiting at the traffic light when suddenly a Tavera comes driving up horning away to glory.  When the car in front did not move, he started yelling at him.  The signals after Cauvery theatre (into the city) such as High Grounds, etc are a joke after 10:00 p.m.(sorry Mr.Sood).  No one stops.

If you go around J.P.Nagar you will find dozens of houses that have encroached on the footpath with their personal gardens, car parks, etc.

On Oct 1 night there was one mega jam leading to the CBI junction (we took 1 hr from Cauvery Circle to CBI junction).  Motorcyclists were riding on the footpath with gay abandon and actually horning at the pedestrians to get out of the way!

Large societies are stable only when there is respect for the law.  However Indians it appears respect rules and the laws as long as it is convenient for them to do so.  At other times it is "I know best".

On the other thing you said, I remember watching a movie many years back.  The movie was set in either Mississippi or Alabama in the racially charged years of the 60s.  One line I remember is that of small white kid (who is very friendly with a black man) asking his father - "How can you hate someone you don't even know?". 

Srivathsa

 

The thread is on "Hindu Fundamentals" on attack. Notice it is "fundamentals" not "fundamentalists".

When the society is in a golden era the religion faith etc take a back seat. No body brings it to the public domain. However when not in such a golden era where the divide between rich and poor in terms of number count or in terms of the richness count exceeds the tolerance limit then these aberrations manifest themselves. These manifestations are signs of "Resource Crunch" not limited to a region or a country but it is of the entire globe.

Religion, faith etc is personal, like what happens in our bed rooms. The constitution has or should have the provision which should be enforced judiciously. However as silk board rightly points out we need to keep the facts of life separate from the religion / faith etc. We should not loose course by these smoke screens.

Dear Mr.Muralidhar Rao, I appreciate your concern for some sense to prevail in the society. However, Praja being a website for civic issues and these issues being as controvesial as they are, it would be better to stick to the core issues. Let not the group get divided on these extraneous issues. Thank you.

The issues that are raised in this thread can not be looked from a single perspective either of religion or politics alone. Not even just the failure of law and justice system.

The problem which starts off with some basing on religious issue gets hijacked or given political colors, then leading to law & order problem. The crux of the matter lies in all these transitional phases. One can lay the fault on all of these sources - religion, politics and governance.

Being a Muslim, let me talk about 'Terrorist Attacks' allegedly perpetuated by Muslims. I can argue and counter argue about these labels Terrorists, militants etc and also the disadvantage being a religious minority with deep rooted suspicious about its patriotism by the majority. Let me keep it short for discussion here.

From a religious perspective, it has been a failure of the religious authority in Muslim community to strive the community away from the allegations and actual acts. It has failed to give the required leadership and religious guidance to keep the community on right path. Their authority is tested in times of difficulty, riots, national losses and inhuman assault on other communities. Time has shown that they have utterly failed in their duty. Now we hear some voices, but it need to be get loader and heard by everybody. For some reason either they do not react/correct the course or ignore it completely saying it doesn't concern them. For me they have failed in the basic fundamental requirement of a human being and particularly a Muslim - To enjoy and encourage the good, forbid the evil.

In absence of any resistance or guidance from religious authority, issues gets hijacked in political arena. All our politicians are part and parcel of one community or other. They too would feel the same way as other community members feels. Once the feel is considered emotional/catchy, politicians would not shy way from using it for elections. Once it is laid out in public arena and election battlefield, it becomes the problems of the state with law and order. Some how, as days are passing the law and order machinery is becoming more and more spineless with pressures from their bosses, politicians and from their own community. Result is, issues are left untouched and continues to simmer on the pans of political kitchens.

Now everything is being looked from the lenses of "US & Them". With the advent of BJP on political arena and its reactionary ideology, it seems the whole nation is polarized between "US & Them". Now every killing, riot, protest, blasts gets justified all in the name of "Victimhood". We hear these cries from all and sundries.

Now we are crossing all boundaries of rational and commonsense with defining Gujarat's "Progress" with polarizing ideology and WB's decline with secular credentials. This is nothing but utter non-sense. Let's not fool ourselves that Gujarat's progress is due to its polarization based on the worst riots and mass killings. Neither WB's decline is due to its secular leanings. If we are doing so then we are declaring to the world that, for our worldly progress, we don't mind killing people whether it be burning the train, mass killings of a community and keeping them at the relief camps.

WB's industrial and economic decline not because of secular credential, but because over-unionization and plain language "GOONDAGIRI" to the maximum.

Even though we satisfy ourselves with a comfort that we are progressing economically, but we have lost the war in social, moral and spiritual aspects. Each one of us failed the Indian nation. Religious leaders have failed to identify the good and evil and guide the communities. Politicians have failed to keep the people's temper in control, instead are busy stoking the new ones. Law and order machinery instead of punishing the guilty busy in gathering the victims for statistics. They have almost outsourced the whole law & order operation to the disgruntled and savage forces. Otherwise can you think odf us turning a blind eye & deaf ears to the scenes of blasts and cries of rape victims? Can we take pride in our great religious heritage?

Cadambi, frankly speaking, I am neither happy with the congress nor the BJP nor any other party. What did the BJP do in the 5 years of rule to contain the over-population, reform the bureaucracy, police and judiciary. I personally believe that the Nehru dynasty is the cause of most of the problems of India today for its miserable failure to contain and control the population, bring about electoral reforms, police reforms, judicial reforms etc. But the BJP did nothing about it either. Today's Manmohan singh govt. speaks only about SENSEX and the markets. I have the gut feeling that our huge, unmanageable population is our real time-bomb and terrorist.

Gautamrao avare, That's exactly what I tried to say here. Gujarat's growth that is being projected is absolutely not due to riots or killings. Progress can not be achieved on the dead bodies and in grave yards. To me, Gujarat's growth should be attributed to the energies and passions spent in right directions and at right places. Syed