Meeting regarding BMTC
14 Sep 2009 18:30
Asia/Calcutta
There is a tentative meeting on how we can arrange a one day event like bus day etc.
We would be meeting on Monday (14th Sept) Koramangala around 6:30 PM. Mithila from BMTC would be joining this meeting as well and will help us in whichever way possible.
All those who would be interested to come please let me know. Once the time and venue is finalized I will inform everyone.
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Count me in
I am interested to join
BMTC should start with by setting example!
Manjari,
When you meet Mithila, bring this up with regard to Bus day.
To start with, BMTC should first do it at their own house by saying for next one year one day a month they will observe BUS DAY for all BMTC employees. They can start at their HO/corporate office. Top of the list should be all the Top executives right from MD and downright. They can arrange for measuring the percentage of BMTC employees that participates in the initiative.
It will be a good exercise to know the nitty gritty details of things that works and that doesn't work. They can motivate their employees by giving them goodies or any raffle prizes. BMTC employees shouldn't have any excuse not to participate in the initiative. They all have free passes and they can take any kind of BMTC service bus to reach their office and back.
Also for replicating it in public domain, it will be helpful if Infosys is asked for their experience with the BUS Day campaigns they ran couple of months back.
Bus day - objective?
What would be the objective of bus day event - good to start with that.
It will be good to be clear on what the objective would be. There could be more candidates, I have listed what readily comes to my mind.
Syed - getting all BMTC employees to use buses themselves (once a month etc) could go towards objective #3 above. But I don't think a Bus Day is the best means or event to work on objective #3. That would be a bit like programmers testing their own code.
I would think #5 would be the best objective for this Bus/PT day event.
14th Sept. BMTC meeting
I will miss this meeting (as I am out of B'lore on that day), though I have been looking forward to such a meeting.
K.V.Pathy
good work
Hi all,
I am a journalist working for Deccan Chronicle. I am extremely kicked wid ur ideas of gettign thngs forward in whatever issues. Please do let me know if i can be of any help. i m ready to write it for u all. My contact id is chetanabelagere@gmail.com or 94484 68686
thanks
chetana belagere
city editor,
Deccan Chronicle, Bangalore
I think it is #5
SB,
If you ask me personally I would pick #5 in your list as the objective for this BUS DAY campaign.
BMTC campaign should be independent of this campaign, though they may join for publicity and reach out. My feel is they must be doing this more often on a regular basis. Its like Microsoft using their own Source control software (VSS) for all their development works.
I am suggesting this. I am for the 3 step approach.
Open for other suggestions.
what about the basics, first?
That's all wonderful! But, I have been repeatedly asking if anyone can even get the BMTC to just as much as display the bus destination boards properly (This is how it is seen on most buses - leave aside the matter of 'bilingual boards'). When I raised the matter in '05 (my CCTF days), the answer was that they were converting to electronic display boards on all the buses, soon. Over 4 years later, over 50% of the buses continue to display such dismal boards, if the boards are displayed at all. The neglect of such basic essentials clearly shows the lack of customer orientation, very typical of the governmental type of approach.
And, all it will cost to have these remedied is a few thousands of rupees, at the most. And, perhaps that's exactly where the problem lies. The concentration is on large contracts involving hundreds of crores (need I mention why!?), and with JnNURM providing a happy route for it all now, why would anybody be interested in just a few peanuts?
Well, if people still refuse to see through it all, and continue to help perpetuate the BMTC monopoly, they are willy-nilly being party to the loot, while simultaneously contributing to the degradation of the quality of life of the citizens.
Murali, We will forward your anguish!
Murali,
Your anguish is noted and will certainly take it up with the BMTC for action. Since you worked with BMTC and was one of the member on their committee you have better understanding of how BMTC works.
Well, if people still refuse to see through it all, and continue to help perpetuate the BMTC monopoly, they are willy-nilly being party to the loot, while simultaneously contributing to the degradation of the quality of life of the citizens.
I am not sure, to whom you are making these insinuations and accusations. If these are for the Manjari and team, let me tell you that team is as concerned as you are with the BMTC service and operations. The reality is we (including myself) slept for almost 50 years and didn't bothered to ask the powers to be why? Suddenly we have woken up and now we are expecting miracles overnight. Isn't it?
We can pick holes in other's approach, keep on the rhetoric of 'Didn't I Say this' 'I said so etc'. That is not going to help the daily commuters anyway. What helps is if something is changed on the ground. When people who were in committees couldn't convince the management over a period of time what credibility we have to question the honest, sincere and well meaning efforts of our younger lot who is not afraid of taking on powers to be. At least they are standing up, which we didn't do decades back.
Instead of whining and sarcasm, lets suggest the alternatives, viable solutions and lend a helping hand to the Praja teams for changes to come.
Syed - Quite Correct
Instead of whining and sarcasm, lets suggest the alternatives, viable solutions and lend a helping hand to the Praja teams for changes to come
I agree, & you can count on my support.
Mr Murali,
I think you are making way too much of a issue of that nameboard sign photograph. Are all BMTC buses having nameboards in this way ? We do not think so.
And I think you have also been complaining excessively for bilingual boards & making it a big issue for nothing. Is it this way in all cities ? Mumbai's bus boards (incldg numerals) are only in marathi, for example, though the city is just as cosmopolitan. So, should an outsider go on ranting needlessly about it ?
I think if one repeatedly does this with a motive to build up a case for privatization, he is wrong & will be seen as biased, with his own private intersets, rather than for the welfare of all - & I believe that you are not one such. So, why not put a full-stop to it once & for all & support others in their efforts to improve BMTC as it is, or come up with some original thoughts on your own, instead of being stuck with theories of how well a Kochi type bus mafia can do wonders here ?
BMTC
Dear Naveen,
I find you are equally biased in favour of your theories, if not more.
As a regular commuter I know the seriousness of the invisible name boards. This is only one item, and there are hundreds of others making miserable the life of an ordinary commuter of an ordinary bus, like me.
Now all these have been listed (partly) and submitted to BMTC.
Let us wait and see how fast they act.
K.V.Pathy
let me explain
@Syedbhai
How can I ever think of accusing any of the PRAJA members of being party to any loot? It's such a pleasure to see such commitment from the members, particularly the youngsters. In fact, I cite their examples to my own children, and nephews and nieces. But, I'll say they are being 'naive' if they think that BMTC is going to change much without effective competition. The term 'willy-nilly' connotes just that, and nothing more.
The reality is we (including myself) slept for almost 50 years and didn't bothered to ask the powers to be why?
That's exactly the difference. I have been saying this from the 80's, and I can very clearly see that the vested interests are too well entrenched to allow change. It can happen only through external factors.
Suddenly we have woken up and now we are expecting miracles overnight. Isn't it?
I have not asked for any miracles. Contrary to the esoteric talks of google-based tracking systems etc that the BMTC official came up with at the last meeting, I am asking for just the basics. If they can't address even these, they have no business to be in business.
@Naveen
I think you are making way too much of a issue of that nameboard sign photograph. Are all BMTC buses having nameboards in this way ? We do not think so.
I am pointing to the total callousness here. All the boards may not be written upside down, but the whole casual approach to what I regard a most important aspect is indeed pathetic
And I think you have also been complaining excessively for bilingual boards & making it a big issue for nothing. Is it this way in all cities ? Mumbai's bus boards (incldg numerals) are only in marathi, for example, though the city is just as cosmopolitan. So, should an outsider go on ranting needlessly about it?
I am as much an insider as you are. And, I can very clearly see that there are very few areas we can agree on. This is on the top of the disagreement list.
I think if one repeatedly does this with a motive to build up a case for privatization, he is wrong & will be seen as biased, with his own private intersets, rather than for the welfare of all - & I believe that you are not one such.
While I'll choose to take it as a compliment, I have openly stated that I am interested in getting into the business of operating bus services. But, I see it as social entrepreneurship to liberate the country from the travails of government monopolies.
So, why not put a full-stop to it once & for all & support others in their efforts to improve BMTC as it is, or come up with some original thoughts on your own,
I had been thinking I was the originator of quite a few new lines of thought on the subject, like better bussing; different approach, etc. Anyway, what's the point coming up with new ideas when you are faced with stumbling blocks all the way?
instead of being stuck with theories of how well a Kochi type bus mafia can do wonders here?
Kochi mafia pales into insignificance compared to the BMTC mafia.
Mr Pathy
I find you are equally biased in favour of your theories, if not more
Mr Pathy,
I wud appreciate if you cud substantiate your statement more with examples.
I think you are referring to my support for continuation of volvo services by BMTC. If so, then I have to state that I am concerned about all types & classes of commuters equally & for reduction in vehicle volumes on the streets for the larger benefit of all commuters. I for one, use BMTC volvos regularly now due to availability of crowd-free buses. If they had not been in service, I would have continued using my car & added to the congestion.
You state that invisible name boards are serious - I spent five years as a student in Mumbai when bus routes were also invisible to me since they had only marathi numerals & name boards. I would ask other commuters or the conductor where the bus was bound to & had manged. Even today, Mumbai buses sport only marathi script, & outsiders have to accept it. Bangalore is no different - I think we must first remember that this country is multi-lingual & there are wide variations between cities or states, & just accept this as a reality to be faced boldly.
there are hundreds of others making miserable the life of an ordinary commuter of an ordinary bus, like me
You are probably referring to inefficiencies in service & poor condition of some bus-stops, which the BMTC team can help with. If there is anything I can do, please feel free to make a post.
I echo the same as Murali
Just by observing bus-day or something like that is not going to help in a significant way.
I have also stated earlier the very basic problems, for which BMTC has to work together with BBMP, BDA, Traffic police or any other possible government entities and find a remedy. We cannot again and again site other examples worse than BMTC and be content about it. Why can't BMTC be best instead of better and create an example for others to follow. And I also say that I appreciate BMTC in many ways, but there is a lot to come.
Yes, It would still make sense that BMTC officials should be asked to commute a day in a month or so to see how buses are operating, what are the current problems, and why commuters actually face problems each day. They should get it in practical terms then only it can be solved.
For the other commuters who goes by private vehicles or cars, I don't think this bus-day or something like that can do much about it. For them to attract, just giving AC buses might not help fully. As I stated earlier also that BMTC buses are highly dis-respected things for a person travelling in private vehicles (there may be a few exceptions). This is not my view only, I keep hearing this from a many people around me at different places. So first thing BMTC should concentrate at their basic stuff, make themselves respectful. I know I have been telling the same things again and again, but I know that once this is done, you will see the commuters will get easily attracted.
Just think about it- You have designated bus stops with proper shelters. People are not running behind the buses and buses are also coming in queue to the bus-stop. Then the gate opens, people from the bus-stop directly step on the bus, bus goes ahead. Then the next bus comes and the process follows. At the signals, they will create a very good example by not violating traffic signals for others to follow. A very simple lane discipline by them will make others also to do the same as they are the biggest possible vehicles on the Bangalore roads commonly.
Once this kind of thing will be in place, I am sure definitely it will attract almost everyone.
Deepak
We need corporate players and not niticrity bus operators
On the privatization front, I strongly feel that unless we have corporate players say for example Reliance or Tata coming up with National level operations, just like how we have Airtel or Reliance or Vodafone national level players with corporate policies etc.. miracles overnight will not be as smooth as expected. Even the state level players for example if we take SRS travels who runs for IT companies, they are very rash in driving. They speak well to the passengers of their buses but very rash on the roads.
I am very satisfied (I can sleep another 10 years without asking) the way in which BMTC drivers drive. There may be 5-10% rash driving as against 70-80% rash driving of private buses. Most of the accidents related to BMTC is due to the negligence on the other front such as 2 wheelers appearing suddenly, kids running suddenly on the roads. I had personally experienced it when my BMTC bus got green signal, but, suddenly from the cross road, a biker entered even though he had red signal. Driver applied sudden brake, almost everyone in the bus were hurt including driver himself who hit his chest to the steering of the bus. Biker just ran away. If he would have hit him, next day TV9 in news would have said "Killer BMTC took another life" without going to internals of what happened.
That's why I said BMTC has to work with BBMP, traffic cops etc
That's the reason I said that BMTC alone cannot do wonders but yes, they have to colloborate with other government entities. And I also agree that its not always the bigger vehicles's fault in case of accidents, our pedestrians are very rash also, they just want to cross road half the time being on the phone. That's also true that we generally don't respect other's right of way on the road (We block other vehicles way even though he has a green signal). That's is the problem with everyone, but I see that Buses mostly do so, yes including private also. BMTC has to colloborate with traffic police so that at the designated bus stops there should be someone standing to police so that other private buses doesn't stop there. This has to be done. And I don't agree with the fact that we have very less staff in traffic police also. I want to cite a very interesting example about the traffic cops - At the very congested signals you rarely find 3-4 cops regulating the traffic except of the few cases when its a jam for a long time, but you see at the places where they have to fine people, there were always 3 strong policemen standing, one for stopping the innocent slow moving 2 wheelers, one for negotiating with the driver/rider, and one big-boss for final fine.
About BMTC what I suggested in my previous comment is not a major thing to be done, its just a matter of proper planning, colloboration and things will fall into place.
BMTC Complaints
Mr Murali :
I am as much an insider as you are. And, I can very clearly see that there are very few areas we can agree on. This is on the top of the disagreement list.
This was your answer to my observation about marathi numerals & scripts on bus boards in Mumbai, as a comparison to Bangalore's bus boards in a single language (though this is not the case on all BMTC's buses).
When confronted with such questions that are hard for you to digest, you have always tended to side-step & revert with similar irrelevant statements or have declined to answer, instead of admitting that your demand is misplaced & well beyond reason.
I see it as social entrepreneurship to liberate the country from the travails of government monopolies
Though I broadly agree with this principle & will perhaps even support your efforts, I do not agree with the methods employed by you for such campaigns. The above is one such example.
Vasanth :
On the privatization front, I strongly feel that unless we have corporate players say for example Reliance or Tata coming up with National level operations
I strongly doubt if this will ever happen on it's own. I think existing bus companies must be encouraged & patiently groomed to become such corporates themselves - examples are there from Latin American & African countries - see this comment on another thread.
Dvsquare :
As discussed previously, unless traffic volumes reduce & road conditions improve in the city, it may be asking for too much of BMTC alone to follow best practices. As Vasanth states, they have maintained a reasonably safe standard on the streets despite the chaos.
Traffic police cannot monitor the thousands of bus stops all the time - lack of co-operation from other road users is actually the root cause for all the ills. Thus, unless mass-transits are in place & traffic growth stifled, this may not be possible at all, in the near term.
You had mentioned that you had some suggestions to make buses align & stop at bus stops correctly (some presentation that you spoke of). Grateful if you could share it on praja to see if they could be useful.
We cannot afford to risk around Naveen
Naveen, I think we cannot risk around with small players. Already Bangalore has got enough number of rash drivers in terms of Indicas, the Tempo Travellers and Sumos. We are inviting one more problem here.
Better to be safe than sorry. Prevention is better than cure. Where is the cure for the rash driving Indicas, Tempo Travellers and Sumos ? We will add buses to this list like the DTC.Things in India easily go out of control and very difficult to bring in control, however you control.
I feel we are happy with whatever we have if we cannot get good corporate level players with proper practices and I think it takes years to take a shape even if they start now . I would rather welcome private players in say Metro or Monorail in terms of Public Transportation and not in Bus Transportation since the risk is less.
Murali Sir may say we are sleeping 50 years without asking, it has happened all over the world. Why is USA sleeping with Car Lobby? Sameway we are sleeping here with BMTC.
Improvement on BMTC itself is better rather than the private operators. Things are happening, but, it is easy to criticize. It is not an easy game as said by armchair critics. When you challenge the armchair critics, they do not have any idea about the solution for the problem (I had challenged here on Praja, many times didn't get an answer, or some answer just to wipe the tears - not the right one). Private companies will endup the same thing and we will not have an IIM or IIT guy running the private bus show with new innovative things to do a magic.
This is what is my final stance!!!
I am talking of the whole approach
@Naveen
To somebody who says "demanding bilingual boards is misplaced & well beyond reason", there's very little I would normally have liked to say. That BEST (another government entity) provides boards only in Marathi, does not make it the right thing to do. By having the boards only in the local language, they are losing out on the custom of a large section of the floating population of the metro's, they are supposedly serving, and in turn adding to the traffic chaos. And, that's where a good private service provider will make a difference.
Also, the point I was making was more on the callous way the boards are written and displayed. Even if the board here is displayed right side up, you'll notice there are two sets of writings - one in blue, another in red. Very likely the bus is operating on two different routes at different times of the day. The crew/ staff can't even bother to change the boards for the different operations, and have therefore come up with this 'ingenious' solution. Well, the approach is 'the regulars know, so why bother with these minor details'. And, therefore, it's only the regulars that they will get. But, is that a satisfactory situation?
And, this is not an isolated instance - it's quite the rule. And, the officers care a damn! That's the basic kind of approach I am talking about.
Well, atleast, you have stated elsewhere that public monopolies cannot be allowed to continue for ever. That's indeed a relief, though your solutions I find rather convoluted. Well, whatever, it's better than our friend, Vasanth, who, even as he is exposed to the comparatively efficient ways of the US systems, however chooses to advocate the status quo for his home city services.
And, incidentally, the big difference between the Kochi/ Mangalore bus mafia, and the BMTC mafia, is that the latter is 'of, by and for' the government johnnies. And, that makes it far more potent, and therefore dangerous.
Walking together will work out
@Naveen:
You said - "unless traffic volumes reduce & road conditions improve in the city"
But if we see the approach, its easily visible that the above line and this one "more and more citizens using public transport", either of them cannot stand in their singelity. These 2 are the cause and effect of each other. Work has to be done in both the efforts and one day we will achieve what we have been wishing about.
About the presentation I talked earlier, I am in process of compiling it, it got haulted due to some other things, will work on that soon and share it with praja folks.
And at the end, I would like to say one thing - May be I am asking too much from BMTC, but I will be more willingly to use public transport when I get that. And there must be many more around, they will not use public transport unless private commuting is affordable wrt both time and money.
Meeting is Canceled for today.
Hi everyone,
The meeting is canceled for today, it will be rescheduled and I will put up a post as when the date and time is decided.
Thanks,
Manjari