please use for further discussions on BIAL.
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Thanks madhu for that information the reason i asked for that information was because I have some concerns about the plans that are in offing for trumpet exchange.
The basic flow at the trumpet exchange is according the diagram 1. There are 3 destinations, and the 6 flows between them are grade separated. NS North to South (Grade Separated) SN South to North (Grade Separated) SB South to BIAL (Grade Separated) BS BIAL to South (Grade Separated) NB North to BIAL (Grade Separated) BN BIAL to North (Grade Separated) But KSRTC is planning to set up a transit area within |
diagram
1
|
|
the
trumpet exchange itself, and taxis, autos and BMTC are all planning
service upto trumpet exchange. Further, to take people from trumpet to
BIAL,
BIAL will have shuttles between the terminal and trumpet. This much is
public domain.
But all this means that at the trumpet exchange, an additional destination Transit area(T), and 8 more flows will be added taking the total number of flows at trumpet to 8+6=14 flows. See diagram 2. This assumes the actual transit center (orange blocks) is on the west side of NH. |
diagram
2
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What the problem is:
My basic concern is all the u-turns on NH. Which, as traffic grows, will get progressively dangerous and slow traffic down. If traffic under the trumpet exchange backs up, it will block the arms of trumpet and inturn block airport traffic.
As of today, most troublesome flows are NT, TS and TB
NT: KSRTC/APSRTC buses from north have to cut across the highway to enter transit area.
TS: BMTC buses, autos and taxis from south will exit from left on the NH into the transit area. but on their way back to bangalore, they have to take a u-turn across the highway at some point. Once the airport opens, this traffic from south to trumpet and back to south will only increase.
TB: perhaps, BIAL shuttles from BIAL to trumpet can get down the BN ramp on the trumpet exchange and get into the transit area, but on the way back to the terminal, the shuttles have to cross the NH at some point. remember, there are only two legal ways to get to the terminal, the NB arm and SB arm on the trumpet exchange. for these shuttles, SB is useless, from the transit area, they have merge into SN, head north and go beyond the mouth of NB and then take a u-turn and then exit the NH via NB.
Now, till the KSRTC opens shop, we need not bother about NT, but TS and TB will be an issue from the day BIAL opens shop. so this is all an immediate problem.
| A slightly better solution would
be to have two transit areas, one on the west side and another on the
east of the highway and connect these by atleast two underpasses for
the moment. one for vehicles and another for passengers. in this design, the airport shuttle drops of its passengers on the west side and picks up passengers to bial on the east side. vehicles from south drop off their airport passengers on the west side, who then cross over to the east side, for a pick up by the airport shuttle on the east side. |
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vehicles from north drop off their airport passengers on the east side, who stay in the east side for a pick up by the airport shuttle.
folks dropped off on the west side by the shuttle will be picked up by vehicles waiting to take them to north or south. after pick up, vehicles headed north can conveniently merge onto SN. vehicles headed south will cross over to the east side using the vehicle underpass and then merge into NS.
A part of this solution is that shuttles from the terminal to the transit area(BT) take the BN ramp on the trumpet and merge safely into transit area on the west side. Airport shuttles from the east side of the transit are can pass under the clearence of trumpet exchange and somehow merge into NB from the right side. (slightly undesirable, but ok)
The issue with this design is that bcoz the space within the trumpet exchange is limited, it will quickly get overwhelmed as traffic grows. also for the vehicle underpass, they will need space for ramp. i dunno if there is space for that.
And finally, this is just flows, imagine if they have to partition space according to mode taxis, autos, buses. it will be very interesting to see how they manage this and who will manage this. meanwhile expect some chaos just below the trumpet.
The optimal solution to this problem is to have a transit area within the BIAL compound. preferably just before the first roundabout. an appropriately sized area on the north side of the airport access road should take care of the issue long term. all that would be required is a small (one lane) loop to allow bial shuttles to from the terminal access to the transit area.
and this just flows, then consider if they have to partition space according to mode taxis, autos, buses. it will be very interesting to see how they manage this and who will manage this. meanwhile expect some chaos just below the trumpet.
Forward this Forum topic
trumpet exchange
BIAL Master Plan Revisited
I was wondering if BIAL is working on the second phase and if so can they revisit their old master plan and make some changes to accomodate a larger airport with more facilities... how about an Atrium with visitor center or village and classy facilities with emphasis on great interiors?? then the existing North Terminal will expand and South terminal will come up as a mirror on the other side. Now in my diagram I have added 2 concourses A and B which are separated from the Main Terminals which act like satellite terminals and are connected with people mover systems (Ofcourse Underground)
How about expanding the capacity with concourses from 50 mi PAX to 100 Mi Pax - I am dreaming too much but its a possibility with the present plan - all that is shown can compliment the existing design...
Comments?? Is anyone in BIAL reading??
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21318792@N07/2424694444/in/photostream/
bial master plan
And meanwhile crude oil hits $117/barrel
If crude oil continues on its upward march, BIAL as it stands today might be enough for the next 20 years.
NorthWest and Delta merged (awaiting clearance). The global airline industry was forecast to make a profit of $4.5B this year, but that was on a crude oil price of $85/barrel. If crude remains where it is, they will make a loss of $30B.
Not sure if you also read this - but American had to ground it's entire fleet for a maintenance related reason. I also read that in the US, planes are flying with less fuel vs. 5 years back to lower costs.
Given how competitive the airline industry is, no one can raise fares unilaterally and it will become a game of "the last man standing". Mergers are one way of making things less competitive and thereby enabling airlines to raise fares.
There is every possibility of air travel becoming the elite form of transport that it was not so long back.
Srivathsa
Drive safe. It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.
oil
BIAL and global warming!
Talk of oil and its not just jet fuel..its the extra petrol/diesel that we will need to reach the 40km airport..I aint good at statistics but its anybodys guess that this will take a lot of fuel to reach the airport and back!
So the need is for a cleaner alternative..the train..who ever wins the elections should take the high speed train and put it on high speed tracks! Else our nature will take a beating!
Btw Srivathsa, americans are not so great either..it was in the news the other day that one airlines made a trans atlantic flight with just 5 passengers..just becos they had to pick up a sizeable number of passengers back to the US from London..
I was also thinking of the oil prices and flying..then as we know 'necessity is the mother of invention' so..if man likes flying and appreciates the advantages..it might not be far that we can see trials of alternate fuels..hybrids in airplanes too..
and the way I convinced myself was..what ever the fuel..bernoulli's principle will remain the same for flight..so we will need a runway and hence BIA can be there for years to come! :P
Green Planes - dream!
In continuation to Blrsri's post here I remembered what Boing is doing on the alternative fuel technology in building aircrafts... here is a link to it.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/04/boeing-flies-hy.html
They are still in the nascent stages of experimenting this - hopefully we will have a Boeing passenger plane soon to compensate the fuel prices and also going green :)
parking map & traffic flow
For our understanding, could somebody who was in the praja bangalore trip to BIAL point us to (or draw a rough sketch if there isn't one) for -
1) Flow of Departure road traffic dropping off people?
2) Flow of Arrival road traffic picking up people?
3) Flow of Passenger flow of passengers from parking lot to departures ?
4) Flow of Passenger flow from arrivals to parking lot?
5) Passenger flow from public transport bus to departures?
6) Flow of Passenger flow from arrivals to public transport bus?
Have a scanned copy of what
Narayan
click for larger image
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
million thanks for the scan
quick gun murugan
BIAL Traffic Flows
Thanks narayan82 - the terminal side traffic flow plans look very organized, unlike what exists some 40kms away in the city.
On arrival, one wud think he has arrived at Newark or some such place (except for the single level).
TS calls it "Quick Gun Murugan" Haha!
BTW, anything further about the 'traffic integration' outside BIAL (for autos, BMTC, etc) ? I dont think it will work if the merge points are near /around the trumpet interchange. It may work better if it is well clear of it to the south, with only a U-turn under the trumpet.
Any thoughts /ideas ?
Naveen, I am still
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
More Maps!
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
Maps
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
thanks, but vip lane?
Thanks for the map. This gives a very good idea of the layout and gives me enough to analyze and put forth any needed suggestions.
Some immediate questions -
1) (you may call it a concern/comment) - What is the VIP lane for? Is it literally VIP as in chief minister/cabinet minister etc. ? If that is so my gut churns. In my opinion that lane should be an emergency lane for exclusive use of fire engines, ambulances, paramilitary response teams & for vehicles carrying handicapped people.
For one, the list of people who are VIPS can go on and on. :-) there is no dearth of VIPs. Secondly, every 3 or 4 VIPs using the airport per day there will be 1000s of regular passengers using the airport who are 1 lane away from getting dropped off conveniently at the Terminal kerb. Fourthly, anybody in the VVIP category like PM,CM and other heads of state will not be using BIAL at all (most probably HAL, the defence airport) rest of the "so called" VIPS can defintely take a hike like the rest of the folks who are equally if not more important since they are the customers for whom the airport is built.
2) Wherever the walkways cross the road traffic lanes, what is the traffic regulatory mechanism? Is there a traffic light or traffic police man to regulate traffic when passengers cross? Or are there just zebra crossings?
3) Are adequate easily accessible trollies provided in the pickup/dropoff areas & parking areas?
4) From the pickup/drop off & parking areas how easy is it to roll heavy suitcases/loaded trolleys? Do the walkways have slopes to get trollies onto them and off them? and of course at all points all the way till the terminal entrance? Something on the lines of but no necessarily exactly the same as the slope seen here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Curb_gutter_storm_drain.JPG)
5) I could not gauge from existing BIAL photos, some questions about the lanes/terminal-
a) In the public & VIP lanes running alongside the terminal building how many lanes are there in each (VIP, public lane).
b) For forum readers to help get a better understanding of the overall width of the puclic lane, as an example, how many buses can go side by side at one time?
c) Approx. how long is the terminal building?
BIAL vs Zurich
If anybody has travelled to or thru Zurich airport please share your experience... I was checking the images of Zurich - most part of the design resembles BIA - not sure if I am exaggerating - the same factory like look from outside
Bialterminal
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
BIAL to City - Transfer from Bus to Taxi
Hi Narayan,
Noted yr post - a couple of issues .....
1)
The bus ticket counter at BIAL can assist arriving passengers to book a cab, which can then be ready at the drop off point in the city when the bus arrives. For this, they need to have contact nos. for taxi companies, etc. & some know how about costs /fares to advise arriving passengers. To integrate both fares (bus & taxi) into one common ticket might require a great deal of logistics & agreements as many taxi operators will have to be involved. If this were done, it wud certainly be great. If only Kstdc is allowed to operate the taxis, fine, but it might not go down well with several other prospective operators.
2)
Having pre-paid auto stands at all drop off points within the city (I think there may be 20 or more points) may be difficult. It may be possible to operate such pre-paid stands during rush hours at some of the busy drop off points. If you remember, earlier they had a proposal to have such pre-paid auto stands on MG road a-la Mount road in chennai, but I think the move did'nt work.
Zurich airport
Hi Satsub
I reside at zurich .. and here is feedback. You are right in your observation that both the airports have a kind of factory look....!!.
But the service and facitlites here at Zurich are one of the best across the world. The terminal design are little different from blore and going by the pictures I have seen of the new BIAL airport... the interiors has more natural right than here.
- The terminal has large shopping area and which also includes the railway (SBB) station underground. Since I did not see a detailed plan of the metro station at bangalore airport yet.. I wonder if it would be underground. Praja folks who recently visited the airport could throw some light on it..!!
- Zurich has a isolated terminal-E which is connected by a skymetro. The terminal is used for flights towards Asia and North America...(non EU). Think bangalore would not have such a thing as the terminal would not be isolated...Btw not sure if they have any plan of introducing a skymetro in phase II.
- Zurich has 3 runways (2 major and one minor), bangalore would cater to only max of two after phase II would be completed (if we get a go ahead.!!).
Zurich aiport surely provides great facilities...it would be nice if a similar serivce is provided in namma bengaluru aiport.
http://www.zurich-airport.com/dokumente/zrh_anfahrtsplan_EN.pdf
Cheers
Raj
Zurich - Raj
Thanks for the reply Raj.. its nice to get first hand information on Zurich Airport. I wish BIAL had planned for atleast 4 runways before they conceived the idea of the airport. but - we have gone ahead to talk - "could have should have " sort now.. I think BIAL has planned an underground metro station and as far as Sky metro - guess what may be Mono rail can connect the airport as Sky Metro..
First thing first lets all hope they will open the airport on 11th May this time :) atleast we will have a wait and watch policy in terms of BIAs services.. like the saying goes - "Taalidavanu Baaliyanu" hope the wait for BIAL will be fruitful :)
BIAL start date hijacked
another praja trip in May?
I was wondering if there is a possibility of another PRAJA BANGALORE trip to BIAL between May 5th and May 15th before BIAL opens.
BIAL's Termnial traffic management plan
Finally we can see BIAL's terminal traffic management plan.
http://www.bialairport.com/pdf/BIAL%20Parking%20Map.pdf