First it was Cauvery Jn : With the narrow underpass, buses or slightly larger vehicles "are" passing through it, but the drivers have to slow down to make sure they don't damage the vehicles. There by slowing all the traffic behind. It was after this, even the BBMP seems to agree that it could have been wider.
This is a series of pictures taken in less than 1 minute we see a traffic buildup of over 100 meters
AnandNagar Underpass : We all seem to agree that its looks more of a pedestrian crossing than some thing that will allow small cars and 3 wheelers to go thru . Also Note the length of the tunnel is about 85 Ft.
To me it looks like a narrow long corridor. Not to forget if the vehicle traffic does manage to get thru the underpass, pedestrians are going to be stranded on either side.
Lets now put our thinking caps: At the cauvery junction it would have been difficult to have a wider box as that would greatly reduce the width of the "U" turn. (This is what one of the contractors told me)
What about Anandnagar Underpass? this section would easily afford a 2 boxes of 18 ft width each V/s the 10 ft underpass that exists now. which would have been an acceptable size.
With the BBMP having an ambitious plan of putting up Magic boxes all over the the city,
I would say please pause, have you done any traffic analysis before the dimensions were finalized?
Note:I am not against the "magic box" technology all i am asking the planners of this great city to put a little thought on the decisions that have been taken. Lets not move from the frying pan to the fire.
Does any one have access to the dimensions of the other Magic boxes planned? How can we get them?
--
Praveen Sundaram
AkA PhotoYogi
"Magic" Mistakes Done .. BBMP must think and step forward
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Comments
Magic bo(hoa)x!
I agree - we should pause, gather data, extrapolate for next 15-20 years, design well and execute well.
I think this is a great technology. Only, BBMP has not applied it correctly. In the case of Cauvery u/p, if you don't consider other design flaws, if not the width, atleast the length of the u/p could have been more. It would have allowed vehicles taking U-turn on the top, more space to maneuver. Now only one bus can move at a time on top of the u/p.
width
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
Pause Rethink and Redesign
Underpasses with magic boxes - some one must have done a Power point presentation to the BBMP. Can we do a design analysis and then build underpasses? I guess building interchanges at these junctions with provisions to build road over road and accomodate railway network should be the goal. Underpasses cannot withstand the pressure if we have to build a road over it. This quickfix solution will further dampen the prospects of building better infrastructure.
BBMP should stop and rethink before executing another disaster.
Magic Boxes - Suitable for public transport only
Praveen, Narayan82 & others,
As I had suggested, these underpasses cannot be made successful for normal thoroughfare traffic as traffic volumes will keep increasing & these narrow underpasses will turn out to be obstacles.
From the beginning, I had thought that they would be more suitable if only public transport buses were allowed to use them for according priority of passage & for quick transits - this is the way rapid bus systems have evolved & have been made successful in many cities outside India. Here, in this country, we have become car & private vehicle obsessed & criticize public transport for obstructing passage on the roads, but if the quality of public transport is improved & accorded priority of passage exclusively through these magic boxes, including the vajra volvo buses going to the new airport, whilst cars & other private vehicles are made to go through signal delays, automatically, people will switch over to the faster public buses & this will lead to some control in traffic volumes, maybe even some reduction in due course if such magic boxes & road over drains are exclusive to public transport vehicles.
I am convinced that this is the only way forward to control traffic volumes - any no. of wider fly-overs or underpasses will not be enough as it will only lead to even more motoristaion & traffic & even more congestion at the next signal or junction - where again another flyover will be required in an endless cycle, as we have already seen in the past.
Whilst a good network of roads is required, control mechanisms for the volumes of traffic must also be in place, which at present is practically Nil & the car /vehicle owning public keeps asking for more & more flyovers /multi-level garages & elevated expressways - this is wasteful & endless.
Re: Magic Boxes - Suitable for public transport only
-- PhotoYogi
w.r.t Naveen
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
The 'width' problem of Magic boxes
Hi Praveen,
thanks for yr post. Technically, increasing width is difficult & time consuming, as also expensive. Many factors are involved - such as road width & space available (one has to think of service exits by the side also to provide outlet/s for other traffic flow directions), crane handling capacity & anchoring facilities when lifting /placing (higher the width, stronger the elements will have to be & consequently, heavier the sections), etc. I have physically not seen the spot - you may have & therefore, may be in a better position to comment if width can indeed be increased.
If there are constraints, the width is bound to be narrow & even if this slows down the bus or other public transport vehciles, it's an acceptable delay. Allowing all types of vehicles & sundry is inviting trouble as it will prove insufficient very soon with induced traffic - more corridors you open to private traffic, more private traffic you invite - this is an accepted reality worldwide. Hence, right at the beginning, they should have announced a signal free corridor only for public transport & airport connectivity buses, as also emergency services such as ambulances & police /essential services.
If this had been the focus, we would not be debating so much about it & all wud have accepted that the best way to get to the airport is by using the vajra buses, which wud have priority of passage thro' these magic boxes.
As for pedestrian cross overs - skywalks with elevators is the only answer, in my opinion as pedestrians detest going down & up stairways - this should have been focussed on at the inception & locations away from the magic boxes selected /finalised & built seperated from them.
No point...
... in arguing. Lets see some facts. I think a dedicated bus lane was tried on the same route where the discussion is revolving around - from Palace Guttahalli to Hebbal flyover. And it was a major failure. It was removed within a few days. Lets try to get details on why it was a failure. From what I understand, its not realistic to have a dedicated lane for buses on this stretch. Some of the reasons from what I know:
1. Some places there are only 1.5 lanes (just after cauvery jn towards Mekhri u/p)
2. Left lane was designated as bus lane. But other vehicles taking left turn at junctions and buses going straight blocked each other AND/OR other vehicles encroached on to the bus lane before junctions.
3. Since there was only one lane for buses: While one bus - often that 20 year old - overcrowded and struggling to go up on a steep incline, blocked other younger and more energetic buses (so forget the rapid transit and Volvos).
I think, to be realistic, with present state of roads in Bangalore, it doesn't make sense to have dedicated lanes.
Dedicated Lanes presently not possible
navshot,
Good point, & I know you are right - trying to make dedicated bus lanes when traffic volumes are very high is unviable & will end in failures. It is like putting the cart before the horse.
For a BRT system to evolve, subtle stage by stage changes /additions /improvements wud be required, atleast for our cities, where people are used to their private vehicles & will create an uproar if road space is taken away.
This was an excellent opportunity to start providing some priority of passage for public transport by announcing that the narrow magic boxes, being very narrow as they are, wud only be for public transport, emergency services & for airport bus connectivity.
Once bus services have been streamlined with priority passage thro' these magic boxes, the next stage can be implemented, which is providing lanes where road width is abundant & available. Thus, a semi-BRT would now be operational. It may not be possible to provide dedicated lanes on all roads due to narrow road widths, & so buses will now be operating in mixed traffic conditions on some roads & on dedicated lanes where roads are wide. This will sway many motor vehicle users to start using public transport & it will start becoming more & more preferable (as it will reach you to your destination faster). Traffic volumes may also start dipping provided traffic restraints are also simultaneously pushed (such as high parking & fuel costs, congestion pricing, etc) & more road space will become available, whilst public opinion will also start favoring BRT as they will start seeing it as better than private commuting, with signal delays, etc.
Only then can full BRT with continuous networks of dedicated busways be considered. However, our authorities have been trying to make full BRTs out of nothing, & such attempts will keep resulting in failures, whilst public also starts disapproving & thinking that "BRT is not for our city".
Yes I remember the bus lane
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
Widened?
The roads are not widened everywhere. Esp. where we have one and a half lanes, it remains so and will be so in the foresee-able future.
The "narrowest" stretch of the road would dictate the volume of traffic that can flow (using the data network model
) on that stretch.
perfect
The narrowest stretch on the bellary road is near the HMT corporate office..its just 4 lanes(2+2) that it..theres no space more than that...
BBMP commissioner goes making stmts of a 10 lane road..where is the road?
These people need serious lessons in road design and on making comments!
All that will result from the road infront of UAS is a benniganahalli bridge kind of situation where 10 lanes narrow down to 4!
maybe we (citizens) have to
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
Traffic PC at Cauvery Junction