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| From Praja_posts |
What is required is a comprehensive solution to ease traffic flow from Benniganahalli flyover past the Old Madras road-Suranjan Das road intersection. However since others among us are working on the Benniganahalli flyover part of the maze ('Safe Passage'), this thread is restricted to ideas on providing access to the proposed TTMC.
Once the Byappanahalli TTMC is up and running, access to and from the west flowing lanes of Old Madras Road/NH4 will imply cutting across half of the now 6-laned highway. Imagine all the BMTC/KSRTC buses that will need to do this on a daily buses. Not to mention all the autos and private vehicles going to the Byappanahalli Metro station. As a starting point, I propose simple pair of stacked access ramps to and from the TTMC:
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| From Praja_posts |
- Ramp1: Above grade ramp for TTMC-Bangalore city traffic (Red line)
- Ramp2: Above grade ramp for KR Puram-TTMC traffic ( (Light blue line; goes above Ramp1)
- Ramp3: At grade ramp for Bangalore city-TTMC traffic (Light green line)
- Ramp4: At grade ramp for TTMC-KR Puram traffic (Purple line)
As with the Tagore Circle underpass thread, it will be good to have further input on this possibly followed by a gyan page. If it's thought out well, construction could use up one lane at a time and with the much touted speed of steel flyovers, access could be ready before it is actually needed boosting the chance of success of these public transport initiatives.
- transmogrifier
Disclaimer: As Prajagale have always suggested, ideally this needs to be part of a comprehensive solution and in the interest ot the larger picture needs to be 'co-planned' with a solution to the Suranjan Das Rd-Old Madras Rd chokepoint.
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That area is a huge mess!!
The hot spots are -
1. Benganahalli Railway underpass (will this project ever see light of the day!!!)
2. Bus stands on either side of the road just before the start of the Cable Suspended Bridge ramp.
3. The region opposite to the KR Puram Railway station (major bottle neck)
4. Junction at the Kasturinagar main road and Ring road (just after the Benganalli flyover.
5. The bus stands just after the suspension bridge towards the KR Puram side.
6. Entry to RMZ infinity park.
7. Nagavarapalya Main road Old Madras road junction.
The Cable suspension bridge is one massive waste of resources. They could have easily planned a flyover/underpass, which would have taken much less space. I dont know how the railways came up with this dumb concept. How could they plan a 2 lane road under the bridge when it was clearly know that this stretch would be part of 6 lane ring road.
Probably it makes sense to actually bring down the Cable suspension bridge and re-design the whole junction.
Byappanahalli IMTC
I could add several more hot-spots along Old Madras Rd to the list ! They are -
To minimize all these chaos & confusion points, the CTTP has recommended that the Ring Rd be realigned to go straight & parallel to the tracks past Benniganahalli flyover on Nagavarapalya side, instead of following OMR upto KR Puram Stn & then branching off. I am not sure if this is being planned or will ever be done.
The plan for the proposed Inter-Modal Traffic Center (IMTC) & Inter-City Bus Terminal is shown below :
No ramps are shown. If there are any, it should only be for buses to cross over, thus only two would be required. To IMTC from KR Puram side & To City from IMTC. If these bus ramps are extended, they could also by pass some of these chaos points & become fast.
Bus only ramps to IMTC
As per the image in your post, it does seem like only the IMTC (and not the Metro station) requires access from OMR. Does anyone know if the Byappanahalli Metro station opens out on OMR or onto Railway Line Road?
The idea of four ramps was to allow rapid entry/exit from either direction. I second your vote though to allow only buses to access these ramps and so (for once) bias toward public transportation but it needs determined political will (maybe an access controlled ramp provides a starting point?). However as most of us would agree, it needs to be part of a comprehensive overhaul of OMR from Benninganahalli flyover to (well actually all through the city) but reasonably atleast till the CBD.
Just a thought, if there was a way to get all the agencies to coordinate on just one arterial road (say OMR) and arrive at a solution followed very quickly by implementation (with a timeframe in months and weeks not years). This could then be used as a showcase and extended to all other major arteries leading into the city...then onto other major roads...followed by access roads...secondary access roads and so on. We can then prevent nightmares such as the ad-hoc transformation of Bellary Road to what's now touted as a "signal-free road"!
transmogrifier
TM
Byappanahalli Station Design
The design for the station includes overhead pedestrian skywalks to the Metro station, perhaps also to the BMTC & KSRTC bus stations.
Vehicle parking is probably adjacent OMR (marked as "Receiving Sub-Station" on the drawing), so ramps may not be planned, just road entry /exit points.
I dont know if streamlining OMR (KR Puram to Indiranagar) is planned or not - this has many chaos points & will involve major overhauls.
Freeing chokepoints along OMR: an idealistic view?!
In most cases a variety of simple solutions (most of which we're all familiar with by now) can be used to ease traffic flow along OMR combined with a few bold measures. Again, I'll restrict this comment to stretches of OMR west of those being considered by folks at "Safe Passage". Possible solutions:
TM
Choke Points
Transmogrifier,
Agree with yr ideas - simple solutions are the way to go since making them "signal free", etc. will only encourage more traffic.
However, since several intersections & T-junctions with right turning traffic are situated within a few hundred meters of one another, the best solution, in my opinion would be to take steps to ensure that feeder buses for Metro are not subject to signal delays. If they are also left to such vagaries, they become slower than private modes & more people will use their own vehicles to arrive & depart from there & add to the already chaotic mess & cause even more confusion.
If ramps are provided only for buses & separate tracks allocated for buses to make them move faster & not mix with other traffic, it will be much safer for bus users, pedestrians, & all others.
However, our authorities are simply not thinking ahead & are reposnding in the same old tried & failed method of widening roads & putting up flyovers, etc. which is just a short term solution, at best.
For street intersection management, the designs that you posted must first ensure that traffic volumes stay within limits & do not keep rising. This is clearly not the case as more & more traffic additions would render these steps to again become more serious choke points, necessiating further steps - this is what has been happening, all along.
Take Byappanahalli turn off - this was under control till now, but it has already become a serious congestion point.
The only solution is to take steps to reduce traffic - & this can only be achieved by making sure that commuters opt out of their vehicles due to on-street delays & take up buses since they would be much faster - What I have been saying all along.
RAMP Length.
Can the second ramp - light blue not be at grade with the existing turning radius?
Otherwise if proposed above the Ramp 01 than the requirement will
(5.5mts +1.5mts) +5.5 mts =@13.0mts of height.
This will require a length of about half a kilometer either side to come to atgrade.
At grade will be feasible I think as there is only one conflict point- traffic going straight on oldmadras road.
Alternatively if Ramp 01 and two can be inetrchanged i.e. Ramp 01 comes above 02.
Ofcourse this is looking in isolation to this intersection only.
What does TTMC stand for?
nJ
-nJ-
919462900144
www.nitinjhanwar.biz
TTMC
NJ,
TTMC is "Traffic & Transit Management Centre"; & IMTC is "Inter-Modal Traffic Center".
You are right - those two ramps appear to be in conflict with one another. This can be resolved by positioning them away from one another, but ramp lengths will increase, which is a trade off.
Another option is to provide U-turns on western & eastern ends of the station on OMR for vehicles to turn around as necessary to move into the rail terminus, but with vehicle volumes increasing, these may soon become choke points too, adding to the chaos further !
can TTMC reduce busses on richmond road?
Can we expect the Byappanahali TTMC's to reduce the busses coming into city say by more than 80%?
IMTC includes Inter-City Bus Terminus
Blrsri,
I think that is exactly the general idea - as contained in CTTP & also judging from the Byappanahalli plan.
The buses bound outwards from Byappanahalli towards Hoskote, Kolar & also those that go to Tirupathi & Chennai, etc. on this route will all be shifted out from Majestic Bus Station to start & end here. So, the no. of buses & traffic going towards Majestic will be reduced to that extent.
I think it will be similar in other directions too, as such IMTC /Inter-City Bus Terminals are planned at the following locations (as per CTTP) :
1. Peenya
2. Hosur Road
3. Old Madras Road near ORR ( this is the Byappanahalli Metro station )
4. Bellary Road near Hebbal
Mysore road bus station is already handling buses bound for Mysore, & has therefore not been mentioned in this list.
mysore road terminal aint it!
Otherwise the stop is a station for the tamil nadu busses which have been moved here from majestic in an attempt to decongest majestic..
There are some busses to mysore and other places that start from the mysore rd stn..
I dont see the kearla state busses too starting from the satellite stn..
The current station is not adequate or nothing much has been done to decongest CBD with this station atleast!
Byappanahalli stn will aslo be useless if they dont plan ahead to terminate busses there..that raises another question..
are we then asking the poor vilagers/farmers, who sometimes carry kothambari in gunny bags, to forcefully change to a train which is costlier?
Valid Questions !
Blrsri,
I think the general idea may be not to shift all the red boards that cater to kothmiri, eerulli, aalugedde & badnekai wallahs out of city market or majestic !
The idea of inter-city buses starting from outside is to prevent other better off travellers to have to commute to majestic & then start their journies from there. Instead, they can use metro trains & commence their journies from these inter-city bus stations outside the city center/s.
The red boards may continue till majestic - at least some of them will have to, to cater to these groups, I guess.
Ramps and Red-boards
NJ, Naveen and others,
Per the ramp design, it was just a back of the envelope design that I thought up... I agree that stacking them will require a fairly long ascent/descent stretch. However unlike other places in the city, space is available for this in the vicinity. U-turns especially nearer the proposed BYPL Metro station is a double-edged sword as Naveen highlights. Plus as the photograph (from ISBT, New Delhi) demonstrates, an adequately designed turnaround ramp has a big footprint. Even a low-speed turnaround such as the inner ring in the pic will require the entire width of the 6-lane OMR.
Naveen, I do think it would be unwise to continue operation of 'red boards' to operate once the IMTC is functional...at least not in the conventional sense (doesn't that retain the hub and spoke model that the CTTP advised against?). Maybe one of your suggested BRTS routes is a solution. Then again, I'm preaching to the choir here!
TM
A Possible Way Out
Transmogrifier,
Designs similar to the one you posted from Delhi may not be necessary for Byappanahalli IMTC. Something like what is on the plan below should suffice, & avoids conflict. One of the ramps has to be longer & the road leading inwards towards the IMTC has to be wider where the ramps take off - this should be no problem as they have a huge area within the IMTC. Areas below the longer ramp (overlapping over the IMTC ) can also be used for praking slots or other such utilities - we see this at many places abroad.
As regards red boards operating till City Market & Majestic - the CTTP does generally discourage the existing hub & spoke model, but, I think Blrsri is also correct. We cannot expect vendors who use these buses for bringing in their wares from out of the city for selling them to transfer to the Metro. This would increase costs of essential commodities for the common man, besides causing inconveniences to them to unload & reload their wares from the buses on to the train/s.
The authorities will need to decide how to tackle this. The best would be to continue running them upto City Market & Majestic, but at low frequencies to cater to these people as also provide a bus alternative, though infrequent. Most people (especially the time conscious & the quality-seeking) will, however, get on to the trains since it will save time to get to Byappanahalli, but for some, such as the vendors, the bus service may also have value & be cost-efficient & therefore be better suited, since their needs are very different.
Nothing is possible
Every time the phrase " Nothing is impossible" does not apply.
The ramp whether at grade (for one conflict point) or grade separated (no conflicts) will have to be on the existing alignment without any acquisition of extra land.
If one visualizes a circular curve from the above ISBT photo one will appreciate it.
Only the curve will be @1/4 of the circle.
nJ
-nJ-
919462900144
www.nitinjhanwar.biz
lets not forget the magic structures!
1. RMZ infinity has added a lot of traffic which makes a U-turn before the bridge
2.Traffic from Nagvarpalya turing right towards b.bridge
3.Pedestrian traffic crossing either side
Add to the above the commotion from the IMTC..
What this place needs is a underpass to make the U-turn addressing the point 1 above..also this will address the need for the traffic that needs to move into the city from the ITMC.. For Big Bazaar and KR puram traffic trying to get to TTMC or RMZ we will need a similar underpass U turn at CDAC office..
Magic Boxes May not Be Reqd
Blrsri,
It is true that there are several points of conflict along this stretch on OMR, but I think once the Metro is operational, it may improve, at least to some extent on the presumption that many of these car & 2-wheeler commuters today will switch to using the Metro & feeder buses.
As such, it is preferable to provide means for buses etc. to quickly move into & out of the IMTC, & simultaneously discourage private vehicles with facilities such as Magic Box U-turns, etc. Also, large parking lots are planned at the IMTC.
Thus, it may be better to focus only on the IMTC at present & ignore the others until later when traffic patterns stabilize & the needs re-checked after the Metro is operational. RMZ, Big Bazaar etc. will become easy to access if Metro is used.
Magic Box at the IMTC-OMR intersection?
Naveen and Blrsri,
I agree that the emphasis should be on freeing the IMTC junction before it's even built. Easy access to public transport facilities (that brings with it higher efficiency) from Day one is a better advertisement of their utility than any of us crying ourselves hoarse about it!
Blrsri, your idea of a magic box got me thinking. Here's my shot at it for the IMTC-OMR intersection:
However it would need to be double width. Also, to reduce the time and inconvenience cost associated with the cut-and-cover method, it could be built in phases:
Naveen, this would preclude acquistion of CDAC land required for your solution. Then again if CDAC land is easier to acquire than the vacant land over which I have drawn those lines, maybe Naveen's solution is the way to go.
TM
Byp Land Plan
Transmogrifier,
This is another land plan for the Byappanahalli IMTC area :
According to this plan, the Metro line starts curving inwards at the intersection of OMR with Suranjan Das Rd & some part of the CDAC land adjacent OMR is also being acquired for the Depot or Parking area/s (the previous drawing shows different - the whole of the area is being retained by CDAC as per that drawing - both plans are from BMRC!!).
I am under the impression that they will align entry /exit roads around this point & not further east near CDAC - the reason being that they will have a longer stretch of uniterrupted land area for the depot (except for the CDAC land).
As such, they can plan either the underpass or the overhead ramps without additional land acquisition specifically for building them. Since parking is being provided for private vehicles, I feel that the turnoffs must also permit entry & exit for them to facilitate people to use the Metro with ease.
Junction free OMR...
what we need to consider is that OMR is a major road which handles a lot of traffic has to be made into a junction free road with seamless exits and entry ramps at least between suranjan das road jn onwards till the cable stayed bridge..
This will help handle the extra traffic that OMR will eventually handle!
Probably we can discuss this better in person with a white board session..lets meet sometime guys!
Chart Ready for WhiteBoard Session !
Blrsri,
I have prepared a chart in readiness for our whiteboard session (reproduced below) - all choke points are circled & ready - I'm sure it'll save some time !!
Magic Box at the IMTC-OMR intersection- 2nd attempt
Naveen, Blrsri and others,
After I posted that one, I realised that there was no access from OMR across to the IMTC in my earlier post. Based off something that I first saw at Heathrow Airport (see pic below) is the idea of combining the underpass with a traffic circle/roundabout that can then be used from all directions (See blue circle; also notice the white line in the SW edge of the pic indicating the road traveling underneath the runway).
This would provide access from all directions (including access to the HAL Engine Division; pic below). Of course that means a medium grade change for all 6 lanes of OMR.
Maybe Dr. ASJ (if he's following this thread) could provide further input on this design alternative. Then again, this is just one part of the OMR puzzle!
TM