Interesting discussion started with some citizens noticed a Flag in the site banner on ABIDE website. Even myself, till now assumed that this is flag that represents Karnataka. The comment that started this debate is here.
Submitted by
rs on 23 January 2009 - 10:32am.
While I understand that the Bengalure Vedike shares a word with the KRV I dont undertstand why they have their flag on the website. Since it is a quasi-governmental website I find it wrong that they have what is essentially an illegal flag - appropriated from a fundamentalist regionalist party - fluttering rather prominently on the site. Apart from this its also wrong that they appear to endorse an organization which has been doing its bit to add to the destruction of quality of life in Bangalore - either by leading meaningless riots, threatening shopkeepers, damaging property - or by erecting illegal flagpoles in the middle of roads doing their bit to blog the smooth flow of traffic and obstruct pedestrians. I know its perhaps a minor issue but I take strong objection to it. Apart from that I think perhaps this website is a good start - at least a way of communicating with the ABIDe people - though one has to see whether this has any effect in the long run. In principle I think its important that they involve the citizens in any infrastructure development question - for example, I think its a good idea if they consult people living in Malleswaram, for instance, in making decisions on roads in Malleswaram. But one has see if they actually mean it. On a somewhat unrelated note this mornings paper carries the news that the HSRL has been approved. Why is it that the people are not consulted on a 6000 crore project which will severely affect quality of life in Bangalore. And isnt the money better spent on people living in Bangalore instead of helping people leave it ? Make proper footpaths, make roads, bury electricity cables etc - all this is a much better way of spending 6000 crores...
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strongly object your objection RS!
Dear RS,
Your (however) strong objection towards the reason of existence of a KRV or any such protesting body (for the sake of good of all Karnataka and Kannadigas residing in it) is CONDEMNED here.
In fact if you've been residing in Bengaluru, or anywhere in Karnataka for that matter, and if you dont know that flag (containing the yellow-red colour duo) actually represents the Karnataka State, and not just KRV, you've failed to be a responsible citizen of this state in the first place. I wonder how you seem to assume any responsbility in commenting here - a place where responsible citizens have come together for the better of the lands they live in.
Besides, you dont seem to understand that Bengaluru is undoubtedly inside Karnataka, and anything that applies to Karnataka, applies equally well to Bengaluru. The Karnataka flag being the least of such things that dont change. If there's a website related to Bengaluru, or even Malleshwaram, there's nothing *you* can do to say the flag does not have to be there. Please let this be clear to you!
And I take strong exception of your rather silly, childish and disturbing criticism of Karnataka Rakshana Vedike, while it is indeed doing a great job at protecting all that is in the interests of Kannada, Kannadiga and Karnataka. If you fail to understand this, and want to stay outside of this K-K-K factor, even while living in Karnataka, you are surely going to feel KRV's work as destructive; whereas what you need to understand is that you're the reason for KRV's existence in the first place. If you want such things to stop, realise your duty and be a true Kannadiga.
-Nijavaada
PS: This comment was originally posted in another blog on the 23rd Jan - editor
comments shifted from other blog
Following comments have been shifted here from "ABIDe: Bengaluru Vedike" blog - editor
1) Ignorance - Submitted by mcadambi on 23 January 2009 - 3:54pm.
RS - how ignorant can you be! The Yellow-Red (kempa haladi) flag represents Karnataka. If you find it wrong - then you are welcome to leave Karnataka.
2) Regarding the flag - Submitted by Vinay on 23 January 2009 - 5:23pm.
I do not agree 100% with RS's criticism of the flag, and do not agree 100% with the way he has defined the KRV. But I must say that though the KRV's agenda is noble on paper, SEVERAL (not all) of the people who actually form the ranks of the KRV are not really what I would call "noble", especially the top rung.
The Karnataka flag is prominently visible in several places on Bellary road now, and guess what - Narayana Gowda's face has taken center position on the flag, replacing the Godess' image. This is just one of several, several examples which makes one feel that in terms of its leaders, KRV is not very different from the Bahujan Samaj Party or Rashtriya janata Dal. What d'you say Nijavaada?
3) Errata - Submitted by Vinay on 23 January 2009 - 5:26pm.
In my above post, the first line should read: "I do not agree with RS's criticism of the FLAG per se, and do not agree 100% with the way he has defined the KRV."
4) Kannada flag - part 2 - Submitted by rs on 24 January 2009 - 10:37am.
Hi
I am a little shocked and saddened by the reaction of many to my criticism of the Kannada Flag. While that has little to do with Bangalore's infrastructure, which I think is the primary focus of this group, and perhaps this is not the place to have a discussion on it, nevertheless I would like to make the following points.
1. A simple google search will reveal that there is no such thing as an offcial Kannada or Karnataka flag. WIth the exception of J & K no state in India is allowed by the constitution to have a flag. Some information regarding its history can be found here nithinkamath.info/archives/2007/04/is-it-the-karnataka-flag/
Further evidence for this is that the official website of the Government of Karnataka www.karnataka.gov.in/ does not seems to have it anywhere.
2. While one might argue that the `KRV may be noble in its agenda' the reality is far from different. Their application of the `love me or leave' principle is completely wrong - and I am surprised that some of the prominent Praja contributors seem to subscribe to it. Bangalore, while it is part of Karnataka has a rather mixed history and one of the great things about Bangalore is that it has been rather inclusive - Auto drivers, for example, speak several languages - Kannada, Tamil, Hindi, English and sometimes Telegu and Malayalam - unlike Chennai, for example, where linguistic regionalism has resulted in a largely monolingual society. We live in a globalized world and if Bangalore is to aspire to be a world class city the impetus should be on multiligualism. It is ludicrous to expect everyone in Bangalore to speak Kannada in as much as it is ridiculous to expect everyone in London to speak English.
3. And before someone starts that - Kannada, as a language, unlike Irish or some obscure tribal dialect - is not under threat. There are plenty of people who will continue to speak it as a first language regardless of whether signs in Bangalore are exclusively in English or not. Note that I am not against putting up signs in Kannada - I think they should be in English, Hindi and Kannada - but the regionalists insist on putting them up only in Kannada.
4. KRV does several destructive things - gheraoing and damaging office buildings and assaulting people whenever there is the slightest bit of alleged mistreatment of `Kannadigas'. Putting up flagpoles in the middle of footpaths and streets which add to the already existing obstructions. Burning buses meaninglessly.
5. While the KRV seems to believe in the philosophy that they are doing things to the betterment of `Kannadigas' their actual actions seem to be more for the `worse'ment of `non Kannadigas'. A simple Google News search for `Kannada Rakshana Vedike' will show you that ALL their actions are destructive rather than constructive and I have a problem if a quasi-governmental organization like ABIDe implicitly endorses it. KRV seems to believe in the principle that if you damage, destroy or hurt a `non-Kannadiga' then you are doing good for `Kannadigas'.
6. Perhaps some of you are wondering why I put `Kannadiga' within quotes. Who is a Kannadiga ? Is it a person like me, who, while born in Bangalore spent most of his life out of it and while his mother tongue is Kannada does not speak it fluently or is it a person like my neighbor, whose mother tongue is Rajasthani, but has lived all his adult life in Bangalore, works in Chikpeta and speaks Kannada fluently ? By the KRVs rather parochial outlook I would qualify as a Kannadiga but not him.
7. Finally - Bangalore has had a rather variied history and its only by accident at the time of independence that it was made part of Mysore state. Bangalore owes as much to Shivaji, Mirza Ismail and Vishweshwaraiya to its development as it does to Kempe Gowda. None of these people would be considered Kannadigas and would have perhaps been asked to leave by the KRV. Personally I feel that major Indian cites - with a population of say 50 lakhs or more, for example - should be made in to union territories as that is the only way to escape from the clutches of regional politics.
8. I found it amusing - whether it was intentional or not - that the letters KKK was used to describe the actions of the KRV.
9. As I said, it is not my intention to start a `flame war' and in any case, I dont think this is the correct forum for it. So I am not going to discuss this issue any further in this forum.
Ramesh
flag
goal, at all costs..
@ Vinay's remarks on the flag, KRV's stance and its approach..
You're bang on target about the flag and its relation to Karnataka state as such.
If the rule in relation with the state flag is indeed written somewhere, then the problem is with that piece of law, and not with states' intention to have a flag of their own! What are we living in? A federal, republic union of states, or a monarchy? And why does RS here think that J&K should be allowed to have its flag and not anyone else? Isnt it high time we got rid of such discriminatory rules instead of blindly advocating such things, and even posting them on Praja like forums with pride? So our focus can be to ensure our rule-book makes more sense in today's context.
@ RS's comments that Murali has put up here:
Coming to concerns raised over KRV's stance here. I think it is a common misconception that KRV goes around beating up people, bashing up buildings and such things. Well, to an untrained eye, social corrections often get depicted as mere rude behaviour. But reality is KRV is a mass of people that wont, at any cost, let injustice be done to Kannada, Kannadiga and Karnataka on Karnataka soil. In ensuring this, KRV uses all possible instruments within the law book to protest and present its point of view. In some unfortunate situations, these voices are not heard by the system even though it is the voice of nearly the entire of Karnataka! And as a consequence, whenever KRV has resorted to dandam dashagunam it has surely ensured injustice is ended, and then surrendered itself to the hands of law. This is not what an ignoble outfit would do, what with a top-rung of that kind as peevishly submitted by RS above. Certainly calls for correction in one's perspective, and sincere efforts to remove the parallax about KRV in their minds.
An action being defined constructive or destructive given by someone above displays the sheer material observation of progress and development in the submitter's mind. With all the "development" happening around us, but bringing sufferings to the people of this land on many occasions, the latter shockingly supersedes the former - the setting-right of which is the main goal of KRV. Of what avail is an industry or an institute to a people if it takes all benefits (to the order of 10s of thousands of crores per year) from them, and then returns a pittance in terms of all possible benefits of industrialisation of a society - be it employment to its people, or positive impact on its cultural heritage etc. Without any intention to sound anti-progress, there is sincerely no place for a piece of infrastrucutre in Karnataka, that is not ready to capitalise by and for Kannadigas in Karnataka. Believing in this is KRV and the biggest mass of people living in Karnataka. If culling these brings justice to Karnataka, it is indeed constructive, and not destructive. But what one needs to know is KRV is not doing just that, but has played an enabler role to many an industry in Karnataka. This is the dharma to which KRV is committed.
And about the 6th question by RS above, well my friend, to KRV, and to all the people of Karnataka, your neighbour in your question is a Kannadiga, and not you - unlike your parochial imagination about KRV. And it is in your willingness to be back as a Kannadiga again by gelling into your surroundings just like your neighbour did - my friend, I hope you realise it is called Chikkapete and not Chikpeta - mend your Kannada, now that you're back here :)
About your idea on union-territories and the void that it suggests - please be informed that in these times when UTs themselves are in the line of getting repealed across the nation, your claim denotes a rather childish perspective! As a comparison if your children are not doing well at school, on in the society, you dont disown them, neither do you just sell them to someone who you think can bring them back in-line! Not intending to get personal, but I feel you do NOT! Your comment about our cities to become UTs thus holds no water. Not something a wise and responsible citizen would be saying! The world is going glocal (global + local) my dear friend, and you, here in Praja, are saying India, contrastingly, should go the other way repealing regional needs and demands?!
-Nijavaada
KRV...a taliban in making?
'dandam dashagunam' approach
Nijavaada avare'
You have stated "In some unfortunate situations, these voices are not heard by the system even though it is the voice of nearly the entire of Karnataka! And as a consequence, whenever KRV has resorted to dandam dashagunam it has surely ensured injustice is ended, and then surrendered itself to the hands of law. This is not what an ignoble outfit would do."
So, in essence, you are justifying violence! You may claim that you are resorting to it when the 'entire voice of Karnataka' goes unheard. But, how do you guage this? Even in this forum, you hardly have any support, even amongst the Kannadigas, many amongst whom probably have higher claims to that venerated epithet than you have. Also, has anyone won an election on this platform, yet?
Whatever, in a democracy, what right do you have to advocate violence? In that respect, how different is the KRV, which you so passionately support, any different from the Ram Sene, MNV (of Raaj Thackeray infamy), or the Taliban itself?
There are various fora available to you to try and win over people to your line of thinking, including PRAJA. But, if you can't get the required support, don't you think perhaps you need to undertake some introspection? So far, PRAJA has offered itself as a forum to you, but, when you start talking the language of violence, perhaps PRAJA needs to review this position.
PS: An industrialist friend of mine tells me that a group of people identifying themselves as the local unit of the KRV barge into his factory with regular periodicity, and 'demand' donations, and in thousands. And, they refuse to accept cheques, coming up with excuses like it will then go into their account in 'Delhi', because of which, they will not be in a position to 'serve' the industrialist's needs well, thus conveying the threat element simultaneously - essentially, an extortion racket!
People don't want to talk about it all, fearing reprisals - the 'dandam dashagunam' approach. I must admit, I debated a lot with myself before making this post, and I expect that's why many others are also choosing to remain silent. And, that's where the KRV's of this world have succeeded.
Whatever, after seeing the video clips of the Ram Sene attack on the girls in Mangalore, I decided that silence (or, rather, not speaking up) by people like me is nothing short of abetment of their cause. There are risks involved in doing so. But, the long-term risks to the community and country as a whole are far higher.
Muralidhar Rao
blind imitations
comments in the line of bayern are cheap and blind imitations of some headline stuff that the english media is using of-late to describe any harsh-seeming happenings in town! Some of them could be bad indeed, while some others are genuine, meaningful refutes - the kind that KRV engages in. Has anyone here looked at the 42 nirnayas that the KRV vowed to resolve in the upcoming year? I am sure going through them would help the responsible Praje to understand what KRV is and its difference from taliban or whatever!
BTW, there have been enough allegations without supporting reason, and logic on this forum, on several threads. Is it because we hasve got used so much to believing in what we're saying to be the perfect truth, or is it because we've closed our doors (senses) to any reasoning that doesnt come from our own selves? Can such trend please be discontinued and Praja discussions brought back on track of logical reasoning?
-Nijavaada
your perspective
Wherever I've heard people accusing KRV, I've only heard second hand experiences of these people. And in some rare cases, with some people I've known on this forum as well, have related, rather peevishly, some cheap incedents of their tiff with KRV on the street, or off the street, and what not! Holy cow! Everyone in Bangalore invariably has a tiff with someone on the road, some or the other day! Really, what all some people can possibly do to spoil an organization's reputation, which actually is unshaken.
Tell me who on earth would barge into an industrialist's place and demand thousands!!! The fallacy in the allegation (you've heard) is very evident Mister. It can only be fools Mr. Murali is imagining here. Or even if it was done in the way you're describing, do you think KRV would have been in such deep debts after conducting one of its annual samaveshas? Do you have any idea about what KRV spends on, and what it works on? Do you even have any idea as to what KRV is going through for all that it is getting in return - imprisonment for protesting for unity among the people living in Belgaavi, of late? You talk about problems in the police commissioner's office and go invest time in talking to them and helping them change some things. But having heard so much about KRV yourself, have you ever gone to the KRV office and found out what their needs could be; what they're upto at least? Posting allegations is acceptable, but after you've been there and found out. Be a responsible Praje, and stop listening to allegations and hearsays!
And BTW, by ascribing my mention of the proverbial dandam dashagunam to violence, you're but relating a mother's/teacher's beating of its children/pupils to violence as well - something that the spoilt schools of today are following! If all the initial attempts at setting things straight in a society have failed, you have only but force things straight. In a soceity of golf-players, people who fight odds to get the roads repaired outside are but villains because they're creating a noise and disturbing the golfers' concentration.
-Nijavaada
Thanks Murali-sir
Murali-sir,
Thanks. I have seen too much beligerence in this thread from Nijavaada. We are each free to our opinions and are free to support or denounce KRV. One of the features of our discussion here is civility, whether we agree with another person or not. If someone cannot adhere to that, he or she is welcome to take his/ her comments and wisdom elsewhere. No one forces anyone to come here and blog and comment.
I have deliberately stayed out of these threads because they are long winded polemics with flared tempers the only end result. Opinions are paraded as facts which we are just expected to agree with. But when a note such as this "Please let this be clear to you!" is written, it is not okay. Then this talk about dandam dashagunam. So I just go around whacking people who don't agree to my beliefs and commands and set up a vigilante justice system.
Thanks for breaking the silence. We don't want our site to degenerate into the free-for-all that I have seen a couple of other sites degenerate into.
Srivathsa
Drive safe. It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.
threats
Mr. Murali,
Your subtle but intentional threats posted on this thread are clearly visible in your words - which happen to be nothing short of talibanic act of force in itself. Please remember that this is a democratic forum of expressing one's opinion, and IMHO none of my submissions here conveyed any force or threatening tone to any individual here on Praja. Yours does. If Praja really has it in it to continue being an open forum, and people here can differentiate between reasonable logical submissions, and ones that actually send threatening messages, it is submissions such as the one put up by Murali here that need to be exiled.
BTW, your comment sends out a clear message about your (wrong) understanding of Praja's intention to be on-line. Mister, you're mistaken, although you might be among some who can "review" positions. You seem to think Praja is offering something for individuals to come and opine but actually Praja is because people opine on it.
-Nijavaada
Demanding donations.....for what?
Does KRV as an organization approve these kinds of tactics to collect donation or is it just a bunch of hooligans & thugs who want to make easy money hiding behind the name of KRV? This is just a modern day mafia, nothing more , nothing less!!
Unfortunately these kinds of outfits are everywhere including europe & US ,not just in India. On some rare occasions they might fight for a good cause, but most of the time they end up disturbing the peace and freedom of individuals. They need to be held with a short leash for the good of the society.
Murali Sir- Trust your eyes and intellect only .
Nijavaada, means should justify the cause !
Nijavaada, p_hebburu,
However noble the cause is, means to achieve that also needs to be noble. Nothing less than that would justify the means.
You can take cover under rights for Kannadigas, for Kannada Pradesha and what not, but you can't justify hooliganism by comparing with spanking from Parents. I don't know when did I gave up my parents rights to KRV?
We can not accept individuals becoming law unto themselves. The acts and actions of KRV is all open to everybody. Will the KRV or any other their likes would survive sans political blessing? Website contents is not the measure for character.
We seems to care more about cosmetics of culture rather than worrying about the real culture - relationships, hospitality, dealing with one another, keeping the surroundings clean and humbleness have lost their significance. We have relegated culture to Murals and wall hangings.
We seems to be passionate about people speaking Kannada and Kannada Boards on streets? But we don't care about the quality of education taught in Govt. run Kannada Medium School. The level of education in govt schools is so pathetic that even the govt teachers doesn't send their children to govt schools. I am not sure whether they are capable to read and write Kannada properly. These govt teacher's unions are no less than mafia. We seems to be OK with what ever is happening with govt schools specially the Kannada Medium, as long as they display a board in Kannada?
If we really care about Kannada, our first step should be to ensure that govt schools are no less than any other private schools. Lets fix our Kannada Schools and do justice to those students who go to these schools. These students also deserves better education.
Lets work on real culture rather than just cosmetic changes.
Syed
website vs reality
Its funny that some of us in this forum actually support & give excuses for the violence by KRV.Comparing KRV's goonism to a mother's spanking is a cheap excuse.KRV organization & its members are judged by what they do on the ground not by what their website says.
Anyways where were these KRV people when Bangalore was attacked recently or what did they do after the attacks. Zero...Nada. Were'nt these attacks an injustice on innocent kannadigas.So far no one has been held responsible for the attacks, why is'nt there any protest from KRV on this or is it only about kannada signage, and flag poles they are worried about.
Fighting for a good cause is noble, but taking undue advantage of innocent citizens and/or resorting to violence is crime. One does'nt need logical reasoning to figure that out, Duh.
the facts?
2) about KRV
http://www.hinduonnet.com/2006/07/29/stories/2006072903850300.htm
Looks like those "guardians of kannada" will start blackening praja website and force us to post in kannada -
http://news.webindia123.com/news/ar_showdetails.asp?id=702270385&cat=&n_date=20070227
http://www.hindu.com/2008/08/11/stories/2008081164550500.htm
BTW, where are their protests when - there is filth&garbage lying uncleared around bangalore, where is their protest when there is pollution, where is their protest when people are treated worse than rats and dogs in government hospitals, where is their protest when corrupt beraucrats don't do their jobs and crores of rupees get spent relaying the same roads again and again. Aaah, I get it, these are not important!!!..go figure.
Separating KRV and goon culture
Don't really want to comment or defend anyone's commenting style here, but please don't mix up KRV (in a fre and democratic spciety,it has its place and ideals) and the goonda-culture that it may be, likely and possible, falsely getting associated with.
The thing is that for one KRV, there could be a dozens of goon outfits that are likely to misuse its name and numercial strength to further their personal agendas. Dealing with that culture is one issue, debating ideals of KRV another. The seperation between the two is important, or else we will get into meaningless mixed-up debate.
Try this. Go to a nearby small business owned by a non-native kannadiga. If you don't find a "karnataka flag" hanging on his/her shop/business, ask if he/she is paying any money to any local radicals or goons. If the person manages to get frank enough with you, share the answers. I tried this back in early 2008 after noticing that a lot of glass-pane owning shops were displaying the red/gold flag. I got at least one business owner to open up.
There are things you and me don't see, but all the problems or issues we discuss here, infrastructure or law and order or whatever, small business owners of this city know them the best.
good that we're talking now..
Well fellow Praje, now that we're in a position to talk, instead of review each other's positions, let me draw your attention towards what all KRV has been busy with (although in the background each such thing has been for the benefit of all of Karnataka, and that includes Bengaluru too :)
Before that let me enlighten some minds here about the pyramidal structure in which the problems of our society are seen. At the top are problems which most of us here in Praja, experiencing the comforts of life, seek to solve and make better. Be it making better roads, better drainages, better policing, better cameras keeping an eye on traffic (!), and what not. While all this is certainly the kind of problems we would want to be solving in our state, but only with a hope that, the rest of the chunk of social issues, which lie wide and stubborn towards the bottom of this pyramid are solved first and foremost.
These issues are very fundamental to running a progressive society viz paving way for a stable water-sharing system between states in India; a firm stand by the center on the borders of states; ensuring an equitable and federal stand on the language policy of operation between states and the center; demanding the state/central govts. to prioritize works on reservoirs and irrigation in many parts of Karnataka; fighting to protect the GI (Geographical Indication) rights of several produces unique to Karnataka; protecting the interests of several daily-wage labourers in Bengaluru & other towns (who are the majority when it comes to employed people in towns) etc. This is a pyramid we need to chop bottom-up friends! The top is like Ravana's head: you chop one, and before you breath a sigh, there's a new head there already! Instead we need to chop this pyramid from the bottom, and we shall surely see the top coming down, naturally!
So if there are social issues that most of us are predominantly talking about right now, we're but only at the apex of this pyramid. And where KRV stands today, is at this very bottom of the pyramid, trying to fell the pyramid, bottom-up. Obviously, there have been several such occasions when KRV has struck its blow at this base, and people have been shaken at the apex. Viz.:
Have you ever wondered what kind of water supply Bengaluru would be getting if KRV hadn't fought to keep the latest kaveri water tribunal on hold? Who paid them to do that, and who bore the expenses when they were admitted to hospitals after being charged by our own state police? Whoever is drinking waters from the fourth state of Kaveri pipeline in Bengaluru would be left with muddy waters only, after all the waters had flown out of Karnataka.
The role KRV played in the construction and hand-over of a particular reservoir in one of the Taluks in Kolar dist. was that of the government. If not for KRV and its volunteering constructive stance, people of those villages would still be fighting for their rights over water for drinking and irrigation
KRV fought hard with the state govt. to ensure it discussed with the central govt. about awarding a GI status to several produces of Karnataka that grow only in our state. There are a huge number of benefits that awarding GI to a produce gives to a community that is expert in producing these things - examples could Mysore Mallige, Karnatakada Shrigandha (sandalwood), Nanjanagudu Vilyadele (betel leaf), Byaadagi Menasinakaayi to name only a few.
It was KRV which volunteered to offer support to daily wagers in many of the garment industries in & around Bengaluru and many other towns of Karnataka when these people were not being offered employee insurance or security of any sort. Today several garment industries around towns provide some kind of insurance to its employees and these people are relieved of tensions of occupational hazards.
It is not an easy thing to be what KRV is. Its definitely not easy to visualize what it takes to be achieving what KRV is achieving, and to the magnitude it has been achieving, and hence getting closer to people's hearts. Which is basically why a move of KRV is with the sammati of the larger majority of Karnataka.
So if a website is different from real life, I would say these are the differences. Perhaps you wont find self-proclamation of this kind on KRV's websites. But only when one has taken the interest and observed them from so close, will you understand the real understanding KRV has about what we as a society need to be out there, competing with the likes of countries that are in developed state. If KRV intends to pitch Karnataka in the field competing with the likes of EU, UK or US or any developed nation, it is because of its magnanimous comprehension of what we need to be a progressive society. Hearsays and media publications will always be there to create controversies out of zilch. As responsible Praje it is sad that we still get pulled down by those virtual word-of-mouths.
-Nijavaada
Resolutions and actions
Which of the 42 resoultions arrived at in the sammelana recently is being met by busting rave parties, moral policing in pubs and taking law into own hands by beating up people. It is important for KRV to ensure they pick their activities carefully.
Request RK and NRK friends to keep a tab on the activities of KRV and ensure the association and trust placed in it by people far away is not misused and tarnished by substandard behaviour. It is essential to have high moral and ethical behaviour to gain respect and work towards the resolutions. I am sure none of the people associated with KRV wants to be talked of in the same breath as Sri Rama Sene
approach needs to change
Nobody has any issues with the pursuit of 'noble' objectives as long as they are carried on in democratic ways. Individuals here may or may not agree with them, but, that's entirely upto them. However, the moment one starts talking the 'dandam dashagunam' language, and takes on the 'mother disciplining the spoilt child' role, it's a different matter altogether. Then, it's a plain 'no go'.
If KRV has to gain any kind of an acceptance, first and foremost, it has to disown these approaches, and in public. May be it could start with condemning Ram Sene's despicable acts in Mangalore.
Muralidhar Rao
of perspectives & principles
@ idontspam,
your hope is indeed true.. and please remain unconfused about the irrelevance of the pub incedent in Mangaluru and KRV. As has already been said, there are innumerable activist bodies without a focus towards what we want to be, and what we need to do to reach there. And KRV is surely not among such bodies. And if you need help with understanding those 42 resolutions I am sure anyone here who can read them can help as well!
@ murali,
Well thanks for your suggestions, but I am sure KRV knows its ways the best. It is a responsible body and knows the law very well. Frankly in the kinds of projects that KRV invests its time, I dont think it'll have to explicitly put efforts into doing "acceptable" things, but summarily it is the trust in its ideology, and the involvement of responsible citizens, that KRV's activities can really become more visible and hence acceptable. And for the record, mothers in this part of the world still discipline a spoilt child by a few beatings, and please dont be disparaged by this fact!! But KRV is not that kinda body which likes to do any such disciplining. It is always its hope that it not be required.
-Nijavaada
statements
Did this not strike to many TOI patrons here:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Bangalore/Even_Sri_Ram_will_be_ashamed_of_Sene_act/articleshow/4044054.cms
KRV's TA Narayana Gowda has lamented on the henious attacks made by this Sene. Besides, this certainly calls for ridicule towards the media that repeatedly approaches such responsible organisations with pricking questions evident in the article.
-Nijavaada
Do not assume
"And if you need help with understanding those 42 resolutions I am sure anyone here who can read them can help as well!"
What in my question to you makes you think I did not either read them or understand them?
preach & practise!
@ idontspam
Your question "which of the 42 decisions is being met by such moral policing in pubs" was an obvious, but wrong assumption on your side. Please practise what you say! My assumption was because you seemed to have misunderstood the 42 decisions when relating them to the pub incedents!!!
Anyway, now I am glad you could read/understand those 42 decisions.
-Nijavaada
Quit preaching
@nijavaada
I didnt need a certificate from you. Anyway, I am glad you learnt something by not being able to answer the question.
not contesting
@ idontspam,
I am not here for contesting any egos. In fact if we've all gotten here to help better our society, we must let go of our Egos. Let us practise (& preach) that first. It was my sincere expression of happpiness on knowing that you were able to understand the 42 decisions properly. And it was indeed intentional on my part to condemn the baseless relation you'd formed between certain organisations and some recent events.
-Nijavaada
Kannada Sahitya Sammelan from Feb 4
Kannada Sahitya Parishat (KSP) president R K Nalluru Prasad, on Thursday officially announced the schedule of the postponed 75th Akhila Bharata Kannada Sahitya Sammelan. Addressing a press conference here at KSP, Prasad informed that the platinum jubilee sammelan would be held between February 4 and 7 at Onake Obbavva Sports Ground in Chitradurga.
Around three to four lakh people are expected to participate in the sammelan and 75 Kannada literary books would be released.
For the full report, please click on:
http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=Kannada+Sahitya+Sammelan+from+Feb+4&artid=5L1ZzT|VoWI=&SectionID=7GUA38txp3s=&MainSectionID=fyV9T2jIa4A=&SectionName=zkvyRoWGpmWSxZV2TGM5XQ==&SEO=
As such, Kannada is indeed well and thriving in Karnataka, and also many parts of the world. The problem is when some minor distortions are perceived as threats, and a siege mentally develops followed by demands for "rakshane'". This then is exploited by politicians in their vote banks game.
Cauvery water, state borders issues are sensitive issues that call for statesmanship in resolving. They are best left to elected representatives to resolve through mutual negotitations. Whipping up passions can only lead to destruction of life and property on both sides of the border.
And, as for GI and such issues, there are commercial interests involved and you may rest assured that the state business chambers will never allow our interests to be jeopardised.
KRV can certainly play a role as a watch-dog, and bring on pressures on the polity, as long as it carries on these activities in totally democratic ways, abjuring violence altogether.
Once these are agreed upon, I have a few questions for KRV. They are:
1) Should it not be demanding display of vehicle registration number boards strictly as per the M V Act in view of the increasing deteriorating security scenario?
2) Like-wise, shouldn't it be demanding display of destination boards in English also, in the interests of visitors to the city, as also in the overall interest of the BMTC itself?
3) Quite like the DMK did in Chennai, during the mayorship of Stalin, shouldn't it also be dismantling all its flag-poles and pedestals erected on footpaths all across the city?
Any answers?
Muralidhar Rao
Time only will tell
re: Kannada Sahitya Sammelan from Feb 4
The questions you had raised to KRV are very similar to what I had pointed out earlier in my post. I completely agree with your views and definitely feel that rather than multitude of groups springing up to "protect" our language or culture etc. we need watchdog groups that act in a democratic manner and help improve the everyday lives of the masses by either going to the court or making our elected representatives accountable.
WOW! How 'innocent' can one get?
NIJAVAADA:
http://www.mid-day.com/ne...
A small paragraph from the article above: 'If the KRV got to know of a rave party they should have informed the police. They have no power to raid and arrest. They are doing things like this just to create fear and extort money," said a senior police officer preferring anonymity.'
Nijavaada, last time I showed you this article and some others, you told me not to bring out the "crap at the back of my head". Read up and find out about Narayana Gowda's history, and what he was into before he became active in the KRV. And try to do it impartially, without ignoring or glossing over what you don't like to hear/read. Then you will probably begin to realize why I say again and again: The KRV has a noble agenda on paper, but the people who run the show are not very "noble", far from it.
the order of requirements
Well Murali, I am glad that you've been doing your bit of following up on matters related to Kannada and its development. Let me tell you that in this regard there's a subtle but very important and basic piece of information we should be aware of. Today it may be true that Kannada is perhaps the richest among many Indian langauges, and we might have reason to be proud of it and all that. But the question is not if Kannada alone is rich, and doing well. It is more about what Kannadigas (people living in Karnataka) have been able to get/take by virtue of being Kannadigas, of speaking Kannada, and of being in Karnataka. That today is not the best in the country, and if we need to reach there, there are a lot of such important things to be set right - like the ones that KRV has voluntarily picked up as issues. Some of them (which feature among the 42 decisions) also happen to need rakshane in the interests of safeguarding the state's interests and ensuring the state's share in this "federal" union is indeed on equity basis.
In such efforts if we wish to push the responsibility ball onto the polity or the business chambers' courts, so in a similar fashion everything that Praja is upto could also be pushed to someone's court. But that is not what we want to do, right? There have been gross injustices Karnataka has faced from the center in the last 5-6 decades, and the reasons for those have been the real lack of federal nature in our federal union of states. What p_hebburu here quotes elicits some of the very important aspects in which Karnataka has actually got a raw deal when compared to many other states in India. There is a need to ensure equity in the way every state is treated by the center. And it calls for all responsible citizens to be aware of this situation before proceeding with a solution! Safe assumptions that elected representatives and "statesmen" will be able to solve such issues (while they have been pending since ages immemorial) is not going to be enough.
The people expect a lot more from well-informed citizens. Whether it be related to Kaveri waters, or those GI's for that matter. In fact most of the efforts of KRV went into mass people education about the benefits of a GI. This is an important job no one in the polity is equipped to do well today. Because they are not, it is going to stupidity to let the GI property of this state go into someone else's hands, and wait for the system to grow up. But this also calls for educating the govt. about its job in such regard.
So it may be valid to say that Kannada as a language is doing well, as always. But so is not the case with the people of Karnataka in the modern day, with all factors involving governance, business and the people as consumers in urgent need of awareness of the real use language should be put to, in leading ourselves to a glorious life.
-Nijavaada
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