Quite a few days back i wrote about the Bad planning of Bigbazaar, where their were very less parking space made available and the vehicles hundreds of them parked on the road or adjecent bylanes, creating major traffic jams in that area.
Now it is the turn of Mantri Mall @ Malleswaram, in the weekend of last week and this week, the entire area is in a mess, by 4 pm in the evening( when i crossed that area) , the mall has put a sign board saying the parking is full. You can see hundreds of vehicles both two wheelers and four wheelers being parked in the adjacent roads, creating traffic jam, which amounted to about 45 mins of travel for a short distance of half a KM. You can see people with vehicles arguing with the police and the mall's security guards for parking.
How can officials let loose of a Big Mall not providing adequate infrastrucuture to the citizens for parking, and smooth manuvering of vehicles on the main road. It is surprising that the CM is inaugurated this last week. Haven't the officials and all checked on the basics in the Mall. Is this the way you put people into hardship. This Road and adjacent roads are major roads, leading to the City Railway Station and also to Yeshwanthpur, Peenya, Rajajinagar, Tumkur Road apart from Malleswaram etc....
Now, you hear the news that, same developers are going to construct a New complex near to the current one. Imagine the more mess it is going to create. Atleast now the authorities should get into action and make the builders provide Major Parking Lot for the visitors. Also, get them rectify the current fault in the entire system, which is creating major chaos.
Please Save Bangalore and also Save Malleswaram too.
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Comments
Traffic management not parking
This has nothing to do with the parking availability in the mall. The traffic is a mess because of the merge from Sirur park road onto Nagappa road. Sirur park road must be closed for thru traffic onto nagappa road and the mall traffic should be directly entering the mall from sirur park road thru a magic box from Bashyam park (road between BBMP ward office & petrol bunk) across sampige road. Vehicles to city railway station should take the link road (bus route) and not use Sirur park road.
Stand at the sampige theater (millcorner signal) and watch the flow you will know why this makes sense. For our traffic police traffic planning means putting more police people on the ground. It does not mean studying traffic flow creating specific signage, deviations, extra lanes, making turn lanes, dedicating lanes for mall traffic, asking underpasses and ramps to be built etc.
See how when any structure especially malls come up in other countries, turn lanes, medians, signals, stops signs etc is altered all around the area along with the commissioning of the mall. Here everything is the same, more police will be standing around getting frustated along with the public thats all. I pity the constables, they work like robots without any brains from higher up supporting them.
Malleswaram Traffic issues...
Well, this was one of the issues I discussed in my long letter to various authorities which I also put up here - praja.in/en/blog/rs/2009/02/20/traffic-flow-change-required-malleswaram-area#comment-20727 - Of course none of the people who have any power bothered to pay any attention to this. I found this article today - the last line is rather frightning and shows how BBMP has screwed the mindset of people www.deccanherald.com/content/59182/mall-eswaram-rues-its-fate.html
And the Brigade Gateway mall is yet to open.....
Yeild & Culture
the last line is rather frightning
Indeed, and the people should know better than to think this is expert opinion. Margosa road has nothing to do with the traffic jam, the last thing we want is chop, chop there. Unfortunately most of the comments also seem to thnk the traffic jams are because of the parkign in the mall. This has become so standard that they fail to look at first the issue as a traffic engineering problem and then a discipline issues by themselves as citizens and users of the road.
Bottomline, there is such a thing called Yeild which is an unselfish act bound by rules of who should yeild and when. We first dont know the rules and second do not believe yeild is a common good which will benefit all in the long run. This is the crux of all merge issues in Bangalore and India today. Selfishness is an extension of our culture and we show it off on our roads
The quick way till magic box
The quick way till magic box is done is to block the access to nagappa road from Sirur park rd and make everybody use the link road. At the junction of platform road & nagappa road, make a dedicated lane for mall traffic to the left of the Rajiv Gandhi bus stop island park onto platform road so the mall traffic moves to the right of the constant stream of buses from Seshadripuram towards Malleshwaram. Right now there is a tussle between the buses and the traffic to the mall comign from sirur park and trying to cross over to the left of the buses within a short distance resulting in a jam.
Malleswaram Traffic issues & Parking issue
As Ranga rightly mentioned, its Parking problem at Mantri Mall Malleshwaram which has created havoc. When I was travelling Majestic Bustand towards Malleshwaram, I had observed the following issue :
1. First saw Parking is full board at Mantri Mall & every customer with vechile trying to enter the Mall without ware of parking. Then they are diverted into main road.
2. We need to uderstand most of the Main roads in Malelshwaram are of maximum two lane only. With parking allowed on all major roads, infront of Mantri Mall & arround Rajiv Gandhi Circle ( surrprisiing ), now effective road width left for traffic is only 1.5 times the BMTC bus size.
3. On this, many vechile owners ( most of them are educated by qulification & no common sens with such people ) wanting to drop their family near Mall, before going for parking, these vechiles are stoped edge of the road which has eaten further main road space.
4. Now effective road left for free movement is only one BMTC bus can travell with criss cross by all private vechile owners.
5. Their is no provision to cross road at Mantri Mall : Mantri should have put foot over bridge to cross the road as their entrance is at 12 Feet height. Mantri has clearly neglected safety of consumers.
Their is no point of blaming BBMP as Manti can only know how much crowd is going to come on weekdays & on weekend. BBMP should not have given clearance for opening of the building. When Mantri can bribe all concerned officales to get clearance and created such havoc in Malleshwaram, their is no point in balming BBMP.
Take case of IISc which has one footover bridge with cycle crossing and another underpass to reach JRD Tata Auditorium or Airofrce Station at Yelahanka having under pass of their own. Here I have seen, system is so good, traffic / citizens will not get disturbed
Same thing Mantri should have done at Malleshwarm or Forum Mall / Big Bazar at Koramangala. When Mantri / Forum / Big Bazar are making huge profits from customer, it is their duty to povide safe & free road crossing for Citizens and Vechiles with sufficient vechile parking faciltity.
cut all the trees..
on sampige road..encroach the park..bring down NKB..and enjoy a stupid mall with multiple check out counters..not to delay anyone inside it but block everyone outside it!
Mantri Mall and parking
Will some one please take photographs of the mess created as a result of Mantri Mall coming up there? These can be sent to CM, All ministers concerned with Bangalore, Police Chief, Secretary UDD,Chief Secretary, Chairmen of BMRDA and BDA and to all the media, both print and TV, and ask them, for Heaven's sake why the hell was the Masterplan 2015 approved by them - to create trouble for citizens or for their benifit? Please go through the fine print in the Masterplan, and you will notice that there is not a single street in any locality where commercialisation can not take place. Why blame Mantri or Brigade, when the law permits them to build as per Masterplan 2015? And who is there to check whether building bye laws are followed?
If you ask me, Bangalore will soon be headed the same way Calcutta headed three decades ago, and has still to recover from the hole it got in. Calcutta atleast has a river to provide water, Bangalore has none except one that is a few hundred kilometers away and that that too it has to share with Tamilnadu. Most politicians and most bureaucrats have juist one objective in their life time - make every place a hell hole, as long as they have their day made out. Please understand, land is money and in Bangalore it is a goldmine. It would be a miracle to change their mindsets - UNLESS CITIZENS REACT and COME OUT PROTESTING ON THE STREETS OF BANGALORE. There is a PIL pending against Masterplan in the High Court of Karnataka and yes it is still PENDING to be heard since the last TWO years.
Major Kapur
Mantri's promises - Where are they ?
Mantri is on record, stating that they would not repeat the mistakes that occurred at Forum mall & would widen Sampige road in way of the mall to rid the area of traffic congestion, which was to be anticipated when the mall was opened. What happened to these promises ?
I agree with Pramod Kapur - Bangalore seems headed for something far worse than what Calcutta had been in the 1970s, going by the recent spate of construction activities on or adjacent narrow streets.
Malleswaram, Seshadripuram, Rajajinagar & residents of other effected areas should be the first parties to fight this, but sadly, most will turn away & thrive on this congestion since real estate values would go up !
Barking.. wrong tree
The problem of traffic isnt the mall's it is that of traffic management. We always bark up the wrong tree. Its one way good that the Malls limit their parking, they need to discourage personal vehicle travel and make people use the metro which is going to come up right next door. Until then suck it up and move on if there is no parking. No point arguing with the security at the mall and complicating the traffic for ourselves. If somebody puts half a brain they will know this problem is that of a lack of managing the roads, lanes & yeild rules. Of course we wont use even half a brain will we. Because what we dont want to admit we can overlook so we can blame somebody else.
Dedicated access - Builder must pay
IDS :
Don't you think it would go against the best of public interests if BBMP were to invest in building magic boxes or separate road lanes leading into & out of private malls or such other private buildings in the city ?
Abroad, costs for construction, lighting /ventilation & maintenance of such dedicated accesses into & out of malls or other private buildings is usually borne by the building owners & they also pay rentals or taxes for such facilities based on long-term lease agreements for the land involved & operation of dedicated accesses on public property.
Whilst it may make sense to have an underpass across the street or a dedicated road lane leading into private buildings, such as malls, I think requests for such options must primarily originate from the building owners' side & they must take the initiative & agree to bear costs in full rather than the corpn.
BBMP /Traffic Police must put it across to such buildings in no uncertain terms that if they do not come up with proposals to address congestion problems with traffic on main streets surrounding their building due to their business activities, they would have to shut shop until satisfactory methods are employed to rectify traffic flow problems.
Apart from Mantri Mall at Malleswaram, there are many other similar cases such as the Forum Mall in Koramangala, Big Bazaars (Koramangala, Kathriguppe, etc.), Lifestyle (Oasis) in Koramangala & several IT companies in many places (mostly in Koramangala) that are responsible for traffic conflicts.
Traffic Management is correct.
Today, around 7.30 which is arguably peak rush hour, I drove down Sampige road in front of `the' Mall. I read in the paper yesterday that the Traffic police have made Mill Road one way going away from Sampige. It worked remarkably well - there was ABSOLUTELY NO JAM of any sort. I turned left on to Mill Corner Road and found that there was a Jam at the intersection of 11th Main and Mill Corner Road - but that was mostly because they have put barriers to prevent people from coming through the Srirampuram underpass from going straight on to Mill Corner Road - one needs that only because of the idiot drivers who refuse to obey any signs - and this created an artificial bottleneck. It wasnt too bad though - and perhaps it was my mistake in going that way as 11th Main is also a disaster zone thanks to the Metro.
Nevertheless this goes to show that the main issue in Bangalore traffic is not volume or narrow roads - but management. In my opinion most smaller roads should be made one way and there should be limited access to main roads - for example most roads should not be allowed to enter or leave Sampige road - only allow access from say 8th, 11th and 15th main. I really dont understand why the authorities shy away from making roads one way when in numerous instances they would save the day. I think its the basic stupid short term thinking of our fellow countrymen who think that they would rather have a hellish ride but save the petrol on the extra 1/2 km that they might have to travel rather than have a comfortable journey but have to drive a little more.
Ramesh
Isn't Mall Owner a Citizen
Mall Owner too is a citizen and he should have taken care of basic necessities of public while constructing the same. Few points to note:-
Solutions could be:-
I didnt notice if the mall
I didnt notice if the mall was closed - but if that was the case then it explains it. I suppose I will be there again this evening so can test it out once more.
I agree entirely that they should build a pedestrian crosswalk - its impossible to cross the road there without risking life and limb.
In any case, regardless of whether the mall was open or not that stretch of Sampige road is often jammed - thanks to the two way traffic on Mill Corner Road. So I think this new solution found by the police certainly helps.
Ramesh
@ Naven I completly agree
@ Naven
I completly agree with Naveen. Its responsiblity of Mantri or Mall owner to provide safe incoming & out going facility for vechile & for pedistrian crossing. BBMP or authorities will not be aware how much crowd or vechile will be coming into the building.
Now Mantri should behave in responsible way and do not allow one more Cartlon tower incident to happen. As other shopd & multiplex to open soon with vacation is going to start, imagine the traffic problem.
Mantri should have on its own provided 10 feet width road facing to BBMP authority for road widening and money of Rs 5 crore to for pedistrian crossing with under pass for cars & two wheelers.
Road Widening is NOT the
Road Widening is NOT the solution. The solution lies in traffic management and fixing minor things like enforcing no parking, clearing up junctions and making footpaths useable. The basic problem in all these situation is not the volume of traffic but the fact that the traffic has to share the road with parked cars and busses and people - because the footpaths are unusable. Added to this at every junction which there is no light, traffic coming in has to inch forward and block the oncoming traffic in order to pass. The solution to this is to limit the entry points on to key roads - such as Sampige Road - there is no need for all the cross roads - from 1 to 19th - to be allowed to merge in to or out of Sampige. Instead - allow only a few and put lights at those junctions.
The Northern end of Sampige has greatly improved as they have built nice footpaths on both sides. Now all they need to do is clear up the construction garbage which is still pilled up on the sides and enforce the No Parking rules on the side on which parking is not allowed.
Cars, a major problem.
Why is the road width not sufficient, because of cars. Most of the Bangalore roads are facing the same problem, because of cars, that too large cars and SUVs, all the roads are facing this problem. Control them like how great cities like London has done where each individual owns cars. Our car ownership is not that high, but we are not able to manage the existing volume. What about tomorrow, when we get a 1 lakh SUV probably?
Our Governments never wants to do that. They want to run the vote bank politics and afraid of imposing congestion charges. Especially they are afraid of VIPs.
I don't think there is no other way to control the traffic problem which in turn will lead to unwanted road widening sacrificing trees, pavements, accidents, slow movement etc. People will always complain lack of efficient PT and they will continue to do so for car lobbying. How about the people who are already using PT. Are they not able to travel?
That sinking feeling
Deepak Rajanna
Well, I went by Mantri Mall
Well, I went by Mantri Mall this evening as well - and there was no problem. I also noticed that they have made Mill Corner Road two way again. So I have no explanation as to why there was no problem - but I noticed that there was a lot less traffic all around - and in fact they had enforced no parking in the no parking zones.
On the other hand this might just be an IPL effect - perhaps the usual mall crowd is at Chinnaswamy stadium or glued to their TV sets.
Ramesh
Who said BBMP pays?
Don't you think it would go against the best of public interests if BBMP were to invest in building magic boxes or separate road lanes leading into & out of private malls or such other private buildings in the city ?
I never said BBMP has to invest in this and I knew from the responses most people assumed this :) Sounds like people look at who pays first and then think of solutions.
All such dedicated entries and exits from public throughfares has to be funded by the mall. The demand has to be initiated by Police & BBMP and the planning has to be in conjunction with mall authorities. Funding purely by the beneficiary. Note that a this underpass will be useless if the surrounding traffic flow pattern isnt thought through properly.
Why is the road width not
Why is the road width not sufficient, because of cars
Also 25 lakh 2 wheelers, against 5 lakh cars. So I suggest you use the word private vehicles.
Try the weekend
It worked remarkably well - there was ABSOLUTELY NO JAM of any sort.
Try the weekend.
Been to the Mantri square over the weekend
I had been mantri square on sunday....I anticipated a rush, hence used public transport/auto for the commute to the mall. There was huge traffic jam near central all the way to the mall, and the parking in the mall was already displaying full. Frankly i haven't seen a mall as jam packed as this one....As we entered the security personnel stopped screening people looking at length of the queues. Eventually entry to mall was not allowed after 7.30 pm.
Point to note is that, the mall is attracting huge number of people over the last weekend because its a new mall( apparently the biggest!). Once the novelty factor wears out... the steady state traffic should be manageable i guess without chopping of trees or creating useless magic!
vinod
1 car = 6 two whlrs?
ids:
That makes it 30,00,000 two wheelers on road with only 5,00,000 driven..the rest tagged along with engines on!?
So the culprits are the cars anyways?
Well, perhaps there is a mad
Well, perhaps there is a mad rush only over the weekends. Also, I think right now people from all over the city are rushing over to see `India's biggest mall'. Once the novelty wears off I suppose so will the traffic. So perhaps the best thing is to accept the situation and hope for the best...
I did feel, though, that making Mill Corner Road a one way does help the situation.
Ramesh
Yes & No
So perhaps the best thing is to accept the situation and hope for the best
Yes & No.
Yes, expect the novelty to wear off after a while.
No, considering the double merge required at the sirur park rd/nagappa rd intersection & platform road/nagappa rd intersection, all weekends will be a nightmare till the Metro station comes up when people will rather park somewhere else and take the train.
Ensuring people use link road and not the sirur park road on weekends may reduce one merge. There will still be backups but it will not gridlock.
In the map above
X marks the spot where the road should be closed (atleast on weekends) to avoid the red circle jam at the end of the road. For those who dont live around this area, many people also use this road to go to the railway station and hence try to cut across to take the left at the end of nagappa road to take a left on platform road. Since nobody yeilds here there is a push & shove and this blocks the traffic all the way to malleshwaram circle.
The blue line leading to the mall is a road that isnt used much. A single lane box (red polygon) without any service roads etc can be placed here (like IISC has done). This short stretch of road can then be dedicated to mall traffic going in. Sampige road can be used as it is now for exiting traffic (gray line). There is no need for acquisitions etc to place a dedicated box under this road.
Here is the hand scribbled
Here is the hand scribbled routing plan for the second jam at platform rd intersection
In the pic Mall traffic should to be made to take lane 3 to the left of the bus stop island and has a signal (red circles) shared with the north bound traffic from platform rd. Till the signals are installed the traffic police can man the flow over the weekends. Lane 2 is bus stop and holds a constant stream of buses which interrupt the cross over of traffic into the mall from lane 1 now so it is important to get mall traffic away from lane 1. Lanes 1 & 2 are straight thru traffic and need to go uninterrupted. lane 3 is possible only if traffic arrives from link road and is segregated properly ahead of time. Else at last minute, people will be on the wrong side and cause chaos to 1 & 2 traffic. Lane 4 is the city station traffic. 1,2 & 4 are free flowing without signals. It may be better to physically barricade lanes 1 & 2 upto mill corner junction so that there is no cutting across to the mall from people arriving on lane 1 by mistake and people stay put in lane 3. Right now the sirur park rd exit is very close to lane 1 & the traffic island so people going to lane 4 & 3 have to push their way bringing traffic to complete halt.
Over the long run if the underpass is built at the mall entrance to sirur park road, mall bound traffic can take lane 1 on nagappa road, turn right on to sirur park and left at the dedicated road into the mall. This will free up Lane 3 in which case the mall management may want to build entrance for their new buildings in such a way that they can put another box/overpass for Lane 3 directly into their new complex parking, leaving the traffic around to continue uninterrupted
Great assesment - Time for action now!
IDS:
You seem to have done a proper survey of traffic flows & have made pretty comprehensive suggestions for the area in /around the mall.
I think you should post these drawings accompanied with a writeup to BBMP & also to traffic police, with a suggestion that Mantri funds related infrastructure costs & pays annual taxes based on the quantum of public area used by them. I had earlier posted a similar suggestion for Basavanagudi (Tagore circle) to ease traffic flows & ensure that avaialble infrastructure (ie. National college flyover) is better utilized & the then commisioner, Dr Subramnaya had postponed the Tagore underpass, awaiting more insights, but after he was shunted out, the new commisioner had recommenced the project, but it again appears headed nowhere as residents of the area are against it.
See these links:
http://praja.in/en/~banga...
http://praja.in/en/~banga...
If we get BBMP to recognize that access infrastructure to private buildings can be developed on public lands, subject to private parties meeting construction costs & paying regular taxes for such infrastructure, we would have succeeded in breaking some of the biases that now exist. This will be a new area of thinking - the age old "public lands only for public use", even if streets remain gridlocked, must be broken soonest!.
If we break ground here, we can hope to see a lot of such similar developments in areas such as Koramangala & Indiranagar, which are becoming more & more congested with malls & rampant commercialization.
BBMP or authorities will not
BBMP or authorities will not be aware how much crowd or vechile will be coming into the building.
That is laughable. It also speaks volumes of what we as people know and expect from city administrators. .
But I agree, since apparently, BBMP may not know the number or the problem they cant provide or approve any solution. I would rather we all do what we want instead of having centrally coordinated inaction as they all ultimately result in the same chaos.
what about solutions within?
I grew up around those places and have seen the mills co-op store buzzing with mill worker trying to buy rations many years ago..and kids playing and cycling on those streets with no fear of any sorts..now it feels pathetic and regrettable that a monster structure on that site should dictate traffic around that place..just because it is big..
Shouldn't it be in Mantri Groups planning that they have a scientific way to measure the peak footfall into their mall and accordingly plan to accommodate the same?
Does the govt officials have anything in their OC checklist for addressing such traffic issues from within the building..parking is not enough..how to reach and exit that parking with least disruptions should also be there
Coming to solutions..one needs to explore what can be done within the mall first..any retrofits which can address the issue..
BMRCL has an approved notification for parking space which can be built around 100 mts radius of the metro station, where there is no limit to number of floors at all! The only consideration is for fire and AAI regulations..maybe Mantri should use that exemption and build the biggest parking to accommodate people for the biggest mall!
How about magic boxes or anything else within the mall where the vehicles can merge to the street traffic seamlessly?
BBMP or authorities will not be aware how much
@IDS
That is laughable. It also speaks volumes of what we as people know and expect from city administrators
When Mantri mall is coming up with so many offers and citizens wants to grab the offer, this is dyanamic situation wher BBMP will not be aware.
If any one can let me know how much crowd will come for each marriage for particular marriage hall. Only person who is organising a marriage would be knowing depending the invite list. Similalry Mantri Mall owner will be knowing depending upon the type of shops they have allocated.
Its true that Mantri group should take full respnsibilty on this mess and we will see even worse as holiday is starting.
@Srinidhi
a monster structure on that site should dictate traffic around that place..just because it is big
I agree with this, if this type of development is allowed, then any solution will be of no use unless the owner of such big commercial area or Appartment or Office should take care of the traffic flow into / outside their premises with proper design and they need to spend money instead of barking at BBMP or authorities.
@IDS Here is the hand
@IDS
Here is the hand scribbled
I think IDS has only thinking of Mantri Mall traffic. Traffic flow from Mejestic platfrom road towrds Malleshwarm is very high and this deisgn does not take care. As this traffic is manily of BMTC buses and all private buses ( Comapny buses ) with road width for two buses only, this design will further mess the traffic. Only way is Mantri Mall should surrender 10 feet land facing road for constructing under pass on lane 3 so that it wil not interfer with Lane 5 Traffic
I think we should see whats volume of traffic during peak hrs and wht type of vechiles are playing their. Its mostly BMTC buses, Company buses and KSRTC buses with LCV vechiles. So one need to take care of this main traffic not the SUV o Car traffice entering into Mantri Mall.
Traffic flow from Mejestic
Traffic flow from Mejestic platfrom road towrds Malleshwarm is very high and this deisgn does not take care.
It does, that is why there is a signal so traffic will take turns to use the bandwidth for both 3 & 5. 1 & 2 are anyway on seperate lanes. Sampige road bandwidth is only 3 lanes till mil corner & then 2 lanes thereafter. So you cant have 4 lanes the merge at mill corner, will kill the whole thing. You can make out many such faulty merge points all across town. A turn lane next to the entry point can be created for lane 3 traffic to wait to get into the mall while letting lane 5 thru traffic.
Remember Lanes 1, 2 & 5 always existed, Lane 3 has been added and will be metered by the signal. Lane 3 cannot be an underpass as there is a SWD passing across so the long term solution is to create the alternate dedicated entry from unused road next to Bashyam park.
Bad Planning by Mantri and BBMP
Now, can we say the planning is bad by both Mantri and BBMP and other authorities concerned.
The crowd may be less on week days, now, due to IPL and also exams for the kids. But wait for weekends and also once the exams are over, with the other shops and the multiplexes opening, you will find same kind of a Jam.
Eventough the no parking signs are put up on the sampige road near the mall, what happens to the parallel road, which leads to the Natraj theatre, many vehicles are parked here, for want of parking availability in the Mall and the people who doesn't want to pay the parking fee at the mall. This road which leads to natraj theatre, towards railway station, gets jammed. So the people who wish to go to railway station or bus stand on the road encounter time delays.
Few years back we used to boost of 15 mins from railway station for people who were staying in malleswaram, now it is 45-mins to 1 hr.
Good suggestions from all for the post which i had started after encountering bad experience last weekend in this place. As suggested by someone, entire posts + the suggestions to be submitted to Mantri and BBMP and other authorities concerned, so that they feel the irritation of the people.
Rd throughput != parking capacity
one needs to explore what can be done within the mall first..any retrofits which can address the issue.
Like, if they add a lane inside their compound Margosa road will look wider?
maybe Mantri should use that exemption and build the biggest parking to accommodate people for the biggest mall!
Why, so you can attract bigger SUV's and encourage biggest jams?
Victim of our own crimes
many vehicles are parked here, for want of parking availability in the Mall and the people who doesn't want to pay the parking fee at the mall.
Aha! So its the selfish we who want to break the law by unauthorized parking. We would rather violate the law and park in unauthorized places so we can go to the as you call "stupid" mall? So its the selfish we who want to have the right to use the mall despite not wanting to pay parking fees and then curse the mall for causing traffic jam. I think its time for the police to take away all the vehicles that are parked in no parking areas and not return them at all. That will teach us a lesson not to violate parking rules and cause traffic jams so we dont suffer.
The things we do to ourselves impresses me and we are more than willing to blame the person who let us be the victim of ourselves.
Multiple responses...
...in one post. Here goes:
@IDS:
First of all, compliments on your analysis of the traffic flow. I am completely in agreement with you about the underpass next to Bhashyam Park which should solve a lot of problems. In addition, I suggest that Sirur Park Road be made a one-way with traffic permitted from Nagappa Road towards the turnoff for underpass (the spot which you marked X). This will permit vehicles from East and Central Bangalore coming via Seshadripuram to use the underpass and avoid any merging/crossover of lanes/signals at Central Circle.
It may be better to physically barricade lanes 1 & 2 upto mill corner junction so that there is no cutting across to the mall from people arriving on lane 1 by mistake and people stay put in lane 3.
Till underpass is constructed, this is a must. Mantri also needs to improve its traffic flow management - there is only one entry and exit for vehicles into the mall which causes crowding at the gate. Further, a skywalk opposite the mall is an absolute must. Also, as Sanjeev has pointed out, the traffic flow on lane 5 is far higher than lane 3 and the signal times must be adjusted accordingly so as to prevent pileups on Platform Road.
@Srinidhi,
Shouldn't it be in Mantri Groups planning that they have a scientific way to measure the peak footfall into their mall and accordingly plan to accommodate the same?
I wouldn't blame Mantri entirely here. While they must have anticipated a large crowd, in India crowds can sometimes exceed all expectations - take any political rally or even the Big Bazaar mega-discount at Kathriguppe a couple of years ago (the police had to resort to a lathi charge to enable the store to down shutters at midnight). I also believe, like many others on this thread, that this extraordinary crowd is a passing fancy which will evaporate with the passage of time.
BMRCL has an approved notification for parking space which can be built around 100 mts radius of the metro station, where there is no limit to number of floors at all! The only consideration is for fire and AAI regulations..maybe Mantri should use that exemption and build the biggest parking to accommodate people for the biggest mall!
Mantri already has a very large parking area - 1500 cars approx. They use stacked parking facilities (which AFAIK was hitherto used only by the Leela Palace). In that respect, they must be complimented for using modern technology to maximise the use of available space.
In any case, this crowd is all the more reason to build a Metro station on the premises - it will reduce the number of private vehicles (and consequently the congestion in the area) and possibly eliminate the need for additional parking space.
@Sanjeev,
I think we should see whats volume of traffic during peak hrs and wht type of vechiles are playing their. Its mostly BMTC buses, Company buses and KSRTC buses with LCV vechiles.
Are KSRTC buses still permitted on Sampige Road? AFAIK, they use Dr. Rajkumar Road to reach Tumkur Road. If they still ply here, they should be diverted ASAP via Okalipuram and Dr. Rajkumar Road. Moreover, once the satellite bus terminal at Yeshwantpur comes up, this problem will be eliminated.
~~~~
Manish.
Mantri can work it out!
@IDS: Like, if they add a lane inside their compound Margosa road will look wider?
I am no expert on constructions to suggest solutions..and I have not seen the current site either..but I am sure something can be worked out!
Haven’t we seen many malls in other countries where parking is well planned and the entries and exits are seamless in most cases. I have not seen any where a public property is modified after a private superstructure comes up. IDS, think you have also travelled well, lemme know if your European sojourn presented you such issues anytime!
Also, encouraging such changes in public spaces may set a bad precedence where every small time developer will ask for converting a public road to a private one..selfish that we are..as you say!
Have you seen the diamond district parking exit(a retrofit) on HAL airport road? It’s a good example of seamless exit. Maybe some thing like that will help here!
Anyways, I pity the residents of the Mantri apartments..having a mall next door should have turned out to be a hell for them over weekends!
“Ah..my super luxury Mantri appt is just 100 mts away..but will take 30 min to reach there in my SUV -sigh-!”
@IDS: Why, so you can attract bigger SUV's and encourage biggest jams?
Isnt the complaint here of ‘Parking Full’ boards also?
This is the proposed site for a metro station too..that place will need its own exclusive parking space.
Examples
Isnt the complaint here of ‘Parking Full’ boards also?
Yes but that is so counter intutive. If you think there are too many vehicles already why do you want parking facilities that will encourage more vehicles to come there? They are going to make it easier to use public transport to get to theri place once metro comes up.
have not seen any where a public property is modified after a private superstructure comes up.
Like I said in a post earlier, Malls in the US regularly have turn lanes created and surrounding lanes altered to take care of traffic. This alteration is a part of the plan for opening the mall. It all gets done before it opens in conjunction with authorities.
lemme know if your European sojourn presented you such issues anytime!
You want European example? Go to downtown Helsinki, Stockmann center (Kauppakeskus Kluuvi) have entries & exits directly from surrounding streets into the parking lot via tunnels from the street.
This one to the Kamppi center
Most European cities use underground effectively. Take a look here. Stockholm uses multilayering very effectively with roads in the central areas going under & thru buildings to avoid counter productive flattening out of the central areas to build roads. At the same time these are very public transport friendly cities.
Will we never improve?
Haven’t we seen many malls in other countries where parking is well planned and the entries and exits are seamless in most cases.
Sure - traffic analysis are conducted before licenses are issued for construction there whereas here, licenses are issued first & later we discover how bad traffic flows are! Despite such planning abroad, traffic pile ups do occur there too. For eg, huge pile ups of cars during various sales at City center mall in Dubai.
Entry & exits are made seamless abroad by planning ramps & overpasses as necessary, & these are erected on public property - costs & taxes are paid regularly by the mall or building. Another example is at Poughkeepsie in upstate Newyork where a huge mall lies off the highway, with ramps leading into & out of it - these are on public land too, as are many such exit /entry ramps all over USA that serve large private properties & are built on public land.
I have not seen any where a public property is modified after a private superstructure comes up. ....set a bad precedence where every small time developer will ask for converting a public road to a private one
I think we need to recognize possible solutions & change our ideas though we are perhaps one of the hardest people to accept anything new since we keep imagining that private parties & govt are out to loot us all the time! There are numerous examples in almost all parts of the world (incldg Africa), but we fail to recognize them as solutions for our country. Given the examples from overseas & practices which are the norm worldwide rather than the exception, why should we not have similar facilities ? Should we continue to remain stuck in traffic jams forever ?
If private developers are prepared to meet construction costs, pay regular user fees or taxes & if all other general traffic flows remain well maintained, where is the problem ? I think the existing precedence is what is keeping us bogged down & without proper solutions to many infrastructure problems.
For eg. the MoU with BMRC is being critisized as public might lose out. There is a learning curve - & it is agreed that the terms with BIAL were not in the best interests for the public as well as the govt. But, will this continue with every MoU that is being signed ? I doubt very much. Improvement will happen only when we have more experience - we cannot expect perfection in any area from the word go!
Knowing vs using
Shouldn't it be in Mantri Groups planning that they have a scientific way to measure the peak footfall into their mall and accordingly plan to accommodate the same?
They probably do know numbers. If they dont it will take them just one weekend standing at the door with a counter to find out. But do we know if BBMP/Police asked for it? If they asked what did they do with that information? Why were no changes made to the roads? Why werent underpasses suggested to the building plan? Because it is not in the system. We believe in lassiez faire. We believe in jugaad to fix problems caused by that capex. What administrators dont know they cant help but think they will fix it in their own way ie do nothing, have more robots standing around or like the rest of the people in this thread find a bakra
this is like the carlton fire
except that its the road users who are breathing fire here..hmm..or are they?!
anyways..the conclusion is that Mantri should work with the authorities or vice versa and come up with a comprehensive plan to fix all issues asap!
afterall the poor teacher staying at Jalahalli cross is getting delayed forever in his bus because of a few affluent jokers like us are in the mood for jostling infront of a mall in swanky cars!
Btw can the 'road over drains' help here? I remember a huge drain next to the mill wall..if covered, it can be used for easier access maybe! Srinagar has the ROD implemented about a KM till Kalidasa Layout..not sure why and not sure who will use that..I stay there nearby and I see cows being tied there and milked...However ROD here might help!
Visit to Mantri Square
I was in Mantri Square y'day evening, eventough the crowd to Mall was moderate, the traffic on the road was bad due to approach road and the buses.
I found out that the mantri mall has around 2000 four wheeler parking, in the new system Multilayer Parking. Due to peak hours and weekends at the Mall, the vehicles spill over on the road and creates the Jam.
Other thing is the parking fee, which is Rs.30/- only for the whole day now. Which is get changed into slab system shortly. This is one of the reason for people using the parking to the maximum as it is very econnomical to park for say 8 hrs for just Rs30/.
The no.of parking slot for a crowd of 20 k to - 30 k on a weekend and more than this is very low. 50% of the shops are still to open, the crowd inflow will increase., once they open. Looking at many shops not opened yet, it gives a feeling that the Mall doesn't have full clearance ie., the Occupation Certificate, may be they have temprorary one.......it is just a feeling.
The BBMP authorities, if they are more fallen towards the moolah they may get from the Mall owners, should atleast make alternate arrangements for the public, who are non Mall visitors, who want to go further on that route.
Traffic jams movies at new mall
Movie buffs who were hoping to see a film at the newly opened mall in Malleswaram, will have to wait till the police and the mall developers find a solution to the traffic jams on Sampige Road.
The police is wary of permitting movies as it is sure to draw a large crowd to one of the first multiplexes in north Bengaluru.
The police is hoping that work on the parking complex proposed next to the mall will begin soon. “Over 5,000 cars can be parked in the new multi-level parking complex. With the Metro rail set to pass by the mall, the parking facility will be very useful in future,” the officer added.
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/bengaluru/traffic-jams-movies-new-mall-580
Finally Bangalore Traffic police are acting on Mantri Mall. Hope Mantri will also come out with solution before complet opening of the Mall. This shows Mall has received partial clearance to open.
interesting exchanges in Hasiru Usiru Y-group:
VS started with:
look at this bright ideas from a traffic planner - "How can a bus stand be erected in the middle of the road? The area of the park has to be reduced as well. I have suggested that a subway be constructed for the pedestrians in front of the mall. Also, there are eight huge trees opposite the mall on either side of the road that have to be removed and replanted elsewhere," said Sreehari. i guess mr.sreehari has not seen the fate of trees replanted for the metro, in indira gandhi park. out of 8 , 1 is half-alive and 7 died. see this link - http://www.mid-day.com/news/2010/apr/050410-traffic-Sampige-junction-BMTC-bus-stop.htm
Can malleswaram residents take the lead and arrange for a public hearing on this mantri mall issue? I think we should have one such hearing where the problem is discussed thread bare and also examine the process of how exactly this mall got permission. then based on how the local residents feel, ways forward can be discussed.
SR responded with:
This is unbelievable! So, our lives need to be modified around malls. If the mall "requires" parking facility for 2500 cars, let the mall give it out of its own land. Instead, we have a "new separate road", "removal of bus stop" and "trees to be cut"? I travel by Seshadri Road by bus on a daily basis, and am seeing first-hand the pile-ups occuring there. We didn't have to wait for a couple of years to see the inefficacy of road-widening. It took just a few months. And still, these "experts" are allowed to spew their nonsense.
D added:
The same Mr Sreehari who suggested that trees must be removed from footpaths, and said something to this effect "Trees should not be on roads - they should only be in parks". He obviously never walks or cycles, and hence has no need for the shade of trees. He's also obviously never heard of the National Urban Transport Policy, or of a phenomenon called the Urban Heat Island that is caused by cutting trees and replacing them with concrete and tar. Transplanting works only for trees that are less than 10 years old (I think - or is it even younger?), and should NEVER be accepted as a solution.
KRC added:
Here's a question - While these current efforts to save trees are important, I'm wondering what could have been done before the permit to build was given. In the United States, I know that there is a definite procedure for such things. There are traffic impact assessment reports that the municipality goes through and the developers are expected to make the necessary improvements to make ameliorate the traffic situation arising from their development. All the meetings are open to all citizens, and citizen input is mandatory. What is the equivalent procedure in Indian cities and how public is the decision-making?
Sampige Road Station Under PPP Model
Bangalore will be the only city in the country where the Metro train will stop at a swanky commercial tower with a spacious parking basement for cars, close to a huge mall. The 80,000-sqft station at an estimated cost of Rs 30 crore will be constructed by Mantri Developers. This, as part of its project of an 8-lakh sqft commercial tower surrounding the station. The station will be designed by the BMRC. Compensation to the private partner is the right to use the space surrounding the station ‘with due regard to safety norms’ for 99 years. During this period, the BMRC is also entitled to revenue share of 1% initially to 5% in the later stages.
For the full report in the TOI, click here
The so-called traffic planners just sat and watched even as the mall was coming up. And, after all the damage was done, they now come up with their hare-brained schemes. And, mind you the mall is just a small bit of the whole! If the right kind of planning is not done at this stage, Malleswaram might as well be abandoned. So, should we attempt an RTI exercise now itself to get the complete picture?
Well, I have been regularly
Well, I have been regularly travelling on Sampige in front of Mantri Mall on weekdays around 7.30 pm and its been very smooth - I dont know what the story is on weekends, but I supposes its quite bad. I hope these people dont get around to cutting trees just to improve the flow of traffic.
Instead of cutting trees they need to regulate the flow of autos/cars in the vicinity of the mall - this is what causes the jam.
I thought this Sreehari guy was a reasonable person - but he is clearly unaware of the reality of the situation. Cutting trees for the sake of traffic is absurd. I was at Palace road a couple of days ago and it was so awfully hot - while on adjacent roads - the road on which Kaveri Bhavan is, for example, its so much more pleasant thanks to the trees. In 99% of the cases the traffic can be improved if they clean up the footpaths, clear up intersections, limit access and make roads one way.
As a resident of Malleswaram, I am really quite concerned. I fear what will happen when the mall at Brigade Gateway opens in a few months. And this absurd tree cutting mania has spread to the other beautiful boulevards - like 18th Cross, for example. In the last couple of years at least 5 big trees have been killed for no good reason on this short stretch of road - 3 a couple of weeks ago. I fear that whenever there is some reconstruction the new building people think they have the right to cut the trees on the footpath in front of them - apart from the numerous trees they cut in the plot itself.
I would like to do something - but I fear whatever one tries is useless.
Ramesh
My firsr project
I think it's high time we start with a PIL agaist cutting trees to ease traffic. Before that we need data of some instances where cutting trees has not improved the traffic situation. I am ready to volunteer to take up this project. People can help me with the relevant data. It is my job to find a lawyer and persue the case.
Consistent approach
@rs
I don't know about Sreehari(self proclaimed traffic expert) being reasonable, but he is definitely consistent. His solution to every problem consists of chopping trees! The bigger the problem, the more trees that need to be chopped to solve it.
Ashwin (envious of the certainty that is the blessing of a simple mind)
Balm for Sampige Rd woes??
The 'guru' on traffic has said..
.. that the proposed changes include shifting of the Rajiv Gandhi bus stand, creating a pedestrian subway, construction of a subway and creating a new alignment with four-lane traffic.more here
..some of the ideas are crazy..like turning the Sampige theatre to a parking lot..cos theres gonna be multiplex in Mantri..hes like 'No bread to eat..have cake!'
btw any one has access to the points he proposes?
Yeah, I saw that a couple of
Yeah, I saw that a couple of days ago. The man has clearly lost it. Or has no idea. Anyway, I think the traffic situation has sort of improved - at least there is no jam on weekdays. Or at least it is not any worse than it used to be. There are several stupid things which in fact cause the jam.
One is, if you want to go from Malleswaram to the station or Platform road you have to come through this narrow road which lets you out just before the Rajiv Gandhi statue and then you have to cross the oncoming traffic.
I think a lot of the problems with Bangalore's traffic is that it seems to grow organically. I dont think a moments thought it given to the placing ot bus stops, for example - essentially I think the bus driver decides where to stop or the people stop the bus where they want. I cannot think of any good reason, for example. why there is a bus stop in the middle of the road at Rajiv Gandhi circle. This results in a huge mess with people constantly crossing the road.
Right now, to add to the fun BSSWB has dug up part of the road, finished the work and left the scar wound to somehow magically heal itself. So 1/5 of the road leading to Sampige Road is unusable.
At the end of the day - the key word is Management. I dont think the traffic in Bangalore requires much new infrastructure - but it seriously needs some thinking about - unfortunately management doesnt pay as well.
Ramesh
Amen!
At the end of the day - the key word is Management
Ah more and more people come to the same conclusion, wonder why?
Mantri Square completes One Year
I wrote this one year back when Mantri Mall got opened, no changes in our life, it is moved bad to worse because of the Mall, but Mantri and Netas have got their Money. The common citizens are facing the troubles while crossing the road either in vehicle / foot. Hardships.........Mantri's didn't even bother to fix a sky walk for the predestrians.........Only way is to Join Hands and big crowd should gather in front of Mantri Mall and celebrate one year of Hardship and boycot the Mall.......
Solution...........
Your idea can work only if alternate way is really an alternate
Hi,
@Shashi, I can see what you are saying through the idea you posted. But there is a problem. The solution must be thought in a win-win situation for all, or if a condition of one doing it wrongly, proper public & government pressure is need to stop it once and for all.
You cannot make people do that, otherwise they really have to drive/commute to distant places to go shop in the mall. Mantri mall is one of the mall which is nearer to people residing in majestic, vijaynagar etc area, all other major malls are more nearer to koramangala, jayanagar or Brigade road etc. Now, we cannot make people stop going there until we give them another alternate mall nearer to them, a mall which is designed without flouting any norms. People like me who stays in koramangala or nearby regions have visited rarely or not even once (I haven't visited Mantri mall yet) because its too far for me. You got my point, we need to give a better alternate to common public to make them protest for all that. If that were so simple, why we still worry about low voter percentage or non-participation of the public in the politics/government. Most of the common public are like ready-to-crib if there is a problem, but they don't want to do much about fixing it, they can't even come up to vote, so we can't have huge expectation from them as well. We need to really invent some better alternative to fix the problem.
Secondly as you also said -
This is not a good alternative again. I feel very sad when I hear any news about tree chopping or see any tree falling down, but still it doesn't make me use public transport, the reason - "Because I don't find public transport just-good-enough as an alternate". I don't see proper end-to-end connectivity for my commute and about the last mile connectivity, I can't find any auto going with meter for that short distance. So, till all those problems exist, its not really easy to make people shift to public transport easily. But in my opinion, tree-chopping is not the only alternative to fix the traffic problem, but government doesn't want to think any greener solution. Secondly, if still there are some tree-chopping needed, then every other govt body commits for replantation of the trees of planting many saplings here and there, but noone takes care of them later on. Even if that is being done properly, we can still keep green cover intact. Don't you agree with that?
And, one thing what government should really do is, remove all the free parking on the congested roads, and atleast remove parking itself from the narrow congested road at all. But again in a fool-proof way, so as not to increase the parking mafia now (everyone has faced those illegal people charging people for parking a many places without any token/reciept).
Another not a win-win solition, and mantri mall is a business-commercial body, why would they as a recipient will agree to this demand. What can really be done, as we can pressurise government to in-turn pressurize on Mantri mall people and come out with some solution for the road outside mall.
Deepak
Apparently, the mantri mall
Apparently, the mantri mall "illegal" ramp also includes the adjoining compounds of LIC building, Sampige theater & 32 trees!!!!
Now there is going to be a new chicken neck at the New Krishna Bhavan junction with 5 lanes of traffic squeezing into 2. What Planning ! geniuses.
32 trees
Oh really ???
This is very bad, we are not at all going in right direction. A bad planning, a few vested interests but victim and culprit both are trees and common-citizens. How sad is that.
Deepak
Appiko
Join us for a walk
Join us for a walk on world environment day from mantri mall to sankey tank at 8 am -meet at mantri mall entrance.
Dear All,
The BBMP is attempting to solve the traffic problems that plague Sampige road near Mantri Square, by cutting down 36 huge, old trees to widen the road. The same is to be done to the trees around Sankey tank, to widen the road there. This is apparently being done to fulfill criteria of the JNNURM funding projects, while completely ignoring so many other aspects of JNNURM. This has been reported in the Deccan Herald yesterday and today.
Work orders have been issued to begin this at both locations tomorrow (Saturday), without any word of public consultation reaching the citizens of Malleshwaram. We cannot let ourselves be bullied by the BBMP and the Government. We have a right to decide what happens in our locality.
Widening the road will not solve traffic at Mantri square, as cars will still be crossing the wide road in order to get to the mall. there is no problem on Sankey road as the traffic moves smoothly-no need to widen it!!!!!
Planting new saplings in a haphazard and congested manner does not make up for cutting down huge trees that have lived for decades.
We are appealing to the forest officer and the courts to get a stay order on this work. We ask you to download the attached signature form, fill up as many signatures as you can, and give it to the undersigned as soon as you can. We want to show protest signatures from 2000 people to the BBMP and the government. do your bit for the save the trees endeavour
With all your support, we can save the green cover of Malleswaram from falling to greed. Please pass this on to all who can help
Yours
Dr. Meenakshi Bharath
Mob 9845011757
Download
I would like to donate
Anyone from Praja joining walk?
And what else can be done for stopping the tree cut?
Deepak
I would like to
I would like to donate...
She is asking for 2000 signatures not money. Print the form from the link, take as many signatures as you can , show up at the mall in the morning (5th June), give the signatures to her & participate in the walk. Take some photographs & upload here.
Joining
ANYONE FROM PRAJA JOINING WALK?
Me & Sanjeev might be there, mostly to validate the 'hand scribbled design' made in the thread above (in true praja solutionism spirit) & of course sign in support.
Great opportunity to showcase PRAJA!
IDS, Sanjeev,
Great yaar. Appreciate your taking some time off to prticipate in this walk. Don't forget to waer those PRAJA caps.
BTW do we have a PRAJA Banner? If not we should order one for such occassions.
Even if the road is widened,
"Even if the road is widened, it won't be of any use. Further down, the road ends in the underbridge that is not even 20-feet wide. It creates a bottleneck. Once the road behind Mantri Mall is thrown open for public use, there will be no traffic congestion on our road. Widening this road is unwarranted,"
more
The survey revealed that the Passenger Car Unit movement is 119 per hour during peak hour. Comparatively, the road sees heavier traffic for one hour each every morning and evening.
more