How do you know its time to bribe?

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3 September 2008 - 12:07pm

Beforehand itself (reputation, hearsay)

17% (4 votes)

The guy asks

9% (2 votes)

Hints (delay etc) but no direct demand

57% (13 votes)

I simply offer it for speed

0% (0 votes)

Agent guides me through it

17% (4 votes)

Total votes: 23

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What I meant to ask is -

silkboard - 8 Sep 2008 - 10:21pm

- this. When we go to the places where we know we have to be ready to offer some money, how do we realize the right time or right person to 'do it' with?

It comes out of my escapades at the local RTO. Actually, I took three trips to K R Puram RTO just to "observe" the functioning there. The pretext was to get an address change done on my license. First, I went through an agent , prentending to not know the process of address change myself. But he wouldn't climb down from his demand for Rs 2000 (he saw I came on a car). Then I went in to speak directly with an RTO employee. While I was telling them about my experience with Agent, and while the man was telling me how people who don't know the process etc well get conned by the agents sitting outside, the very same agent who I had fallen out with came in with some "files". He saw me, left the files in a cabinet in the office like he knew what each shelf in the cabinet contained, and then just walked away with an ' aamele barthini" (will come later)!

Well, I got my address change done for Rs 40, which is what one needs to pay for it. But the trip to the RTO, with eyes and ears all open, was worth it to understand things a bit better.

Is it as easy elsewhere - if you know the right process, you can get it done for the right rates, or was I simply lucky? How do you know what kind of place you are at - bribe-only, or bribe-optional? RTO may not be the best example. Some land related transaction will be the extreme case study, but have never visited one. Will do soon, if only to experience the office environment there.

Bribes , my experience

Vasanth - 12 Sep 2008 - 7:55am

Bribe in Karnataka is the highest because of the realestate prices in and around Bangalore. BDA and BBMP have the 'highest share', followed by the Taluk office, BESCOM and BWSSB.

Instance of Taluk Office - I had to get the survival certificate once my father passed away to get his Pension settled. We had to go to Taluk office on the KG Road. Myself and my mother filled up all the documents. The Peon was telling 'Saahebru innu Bandhilla' and we waited from afternoon 12 to almost 3-30. Saaheba came at 3-30 and he was in seat just for 30 minutes or so. I requested him for the survival certificate and presented the application. He asked us to come after 15 days, I requested him that we have to get the pension papers processed and we need it ASAP. He started his tune 'everyone is urgent, I am so busy, do not have time' etc.. and told us politely to come after 15 days it will be done.People who had come there were roaming around from months together. Near my house there was a typist sitting in Taluk office. He took the documents and charged 1,000 rupees. He got everything done within one day and gave door delivery!! This was a reasonable bribe and I was ready to shell out.

We have so many records such as Marraige Certificate, still why need Survivor Certificate. Our System makes these bribe taking people to grow.

Same is the RTO bribe. 1,000 rupees for DL through driving school!!

Especially in the real estate field, people are minting money due to lakhs of bribe since there is no transparency in our document system like the site records.

Bribes

sound horn NOT ok - 27 Oct 2008 - 7:51pm

I must agree with Vasanth saying,"Our System makes these bribe taking people to grow". Right from getting a death certificate, a passport application getting the police verification seal, land documents, DL s , almost every single government document has some " value" attached to it. Great the stakes and urgency for us, greater becomes the "value". My friend went through a torrid experience for her passport verification by the police. First, the cops didnt turn up for almost a month after submitting the form. On approaching the station, she was told that her house was locked (lie!). After checking documents,and visiting the station twice, and asking for a 'bottle', since her father was in the army, it was finally done. Next the postman asks for money to deliver the passport! If the entire family has applied, they ll get it on different days, so each time he can pocket ten bucks! The 'system' has been made into such a mess, that no one does their work without a bribe. At this moment even my police verification hangs in the balance, as the man incharge is asking for all kinds of documents just to trouble me. he even wants to see my updated bank passbook! I can get away by paying Rs50 or 100. Its just that i love to see a clean, honest country that am not doing it.

Sub-Registrar Offices - The Worst of All

Naveen - 27 Oct 2008 - 8:39pm

Hi, I wanted to narrate two events : 1) Father's Death certificate : This was 1995 & I applied for this with the hospital's death certificate confirmation letter. I was told to produce a 'pension certificate' & also a 'service certificate'. I immediately grew suspicious as I had been told that a hospital letter would be enough. I questioned why these additional papers were required - no proper answers were forthcoming. I insisted that I would return the next day & to have the death certificate ready. When I returned, as expected, it was'nt ready & I was told to meet the 'sahebru'. After about an hour of waiting, I was called & the 'sahebru' asked me point blank if this was being requested for property transfer. I evaded this & told him that it was a death certificate that I had applied for. The saheb then got the message that I wud'nt budge & was not open to paying. He asked me to return the next working day, which was monday. Accordingly, I returned monday & hey presto ! my father's death certificate had been made ready. Although I wasted five days & had to make several trips, I had ensured that nothing was paid to anyone, but the lesson here is that they try to test your patience & ask you repeatedly to visit their office, in an attempt to extract some cash in exchange for quicker attention. 2) Registration of Plot (1996) : I had to re-register my plot after house construction & had been doing the rounds at the sub-registrar's office. I was initially told to produce Indira Vikas Patra for Rs.10,000, & almost miraculously, an agent, selling the same appeared out of nowhere. When I said that I do not have to buy this, I was told that re-registration of property requires a payment. I said I would pay what was due. Actually, in this case, since registration had already been paid previously, I was entitled for exemption, but I was unaware of this at the time. The clerk told me to return the next day with Rs.7000/- for the re-registration. Accordingly, I returned the next day with the money, only to be told by the clerk that he would 'reduce' it & to sign an application, requesting exemption. I signed the application & he asked for Rs.4000/-. I asked him to wait & went out. Later, after I had spoken to sources familiar with this, I went in again & demanded the re-registration loudly. The clerk looked quite shocked, but I had been successful in upsetting him. He had then told me to come again the next day. The next day, the registration went well. The 'mamool' (Rs.50/-) for the 'stamp' guy was unavoidable, though, as also Rs.100/- for the same clerk, who had nearly pleaded with me. I feel the sub-registrar offices are the worst, & bribes are collected routinely for nearly all registrations. So far, the law only punishes the bribe taker. I feel the bribe giver is also equally responsible for this. Unless both are punished, this practice is bound to continue. What are your thoughts ?

Patronage to the culrure of bribery!

kbsyed61 - 28 Oct 2008 - 2:39am

Vasanth, SH, Naveen, Another den of corruption is BDA. I am not sure if any body would even dare to mention this in public forums. Even those who crave for free economy, wouldn't like to say anything against BDA and its culture of bribes. It seems even the less government discussion conveniently sidelines the BDA. In patronage, I am sure BDA gets it from everybody - from ordinary public to business houses, politicians to bureaucrats. It is pity that the other day we did proud ourselves with moon mission, but same evening news tabloids were already out with scam news in the space agency. It seems the cancer of bribery has not left any section of our lives untouched. It is true that we have accepted the bribes to be part of our lives. Just look at the news item on amount of bribes paid by the poor in TN. Poor paid Rs 98 cr bribe in Tamil Nadu last year - The Times of India Often it is seen that in the bribery discussions, the patronage given by the business and Industrial houses are rarely gets mentioned. If poor pays, 98 crores in bribes, we all can imagine the staggering amount of bribe paid by the businesses and industrial houses. Look at the wealth unearthed during Lok Ayukta raids. One can describe this cycle as - patronized by business houses, blessed by politicians and accepted by the public at large. How do we break this cycle?

Need Help

punith.hemanth - 25 Aug 2009 - 3:43pm

hey hi vasanth,

I need to get a survival certificate myself,can u help in getting in contact with ur contact person

Thanks

hemanth(email:punith.hemanth@gmail.com)

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