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One convincing reason for us to use public transport and bicycles
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fantastic!
Fantastic, Shaastriavare! I am broadcasting this to the world.
Muralidhar Rao
this is a brilliant poster -
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
Eloquent Fotos!
I must congratulate you on the wonderful pics! They so eloquently tell the story of mismanagement of resources by the elite, whose sins of ommission and/or commission impact the lives of the majority.
However the time has long come to change that and not let the elite minority get away with such decisions. The common man is no less a stakeholder in the sustainability of his environment.
It is well-known that people's involvement is vital to effective public policy. But in our case we are getting more and more alienated...
We need to voice our opinions much more vociferously than before and try to take to task our elected representatives, especially at the local Municipal level.
It was this coordinated public voice that could make an elected Municpality toe the line in Mexico City and ban all motor vehicular traffic from the inner regions of the city, some years ago, in an effort to contain the traffic snarls.
Here, our leaders are too busy feathering their own nests, to even dream of saving the city and its people from the massive vehicular population...
Rather the RTO makes hay and traffic unleashes havoc on the streets...
betashe
awesome pic
cars..necessary evil?
Then we can do carpooling..for blr folks there was an interesting news article today..
http://www.indiaprwire.com/pressrelease/internet/200803288396.htm
Decongest the roads
This is a great picture - the bus appears to be the best solution - spacewise. It is a good solution, but has limitations. The dynamic space that the bus actually needs on the road is much more than its outline indicates and also it causes fear among other users.
Considering the width of the roads in our city, one would be better off with narrower buses. Such buses would be better for other road users too. Less threatening and leaving some space for other vehicles.
Further, one could eliminate seats in at least 50% of the buses, use rear engined chassis buses and lower the floor of the bus, so that passengers can use these more easily. Distinguish these buses with a different colour, so that a user would know what type of bus he or she is getting into.
Cars take up too much space. But provide a complete travel solution. Charge for this convenience. Introduce electronic means to measure the presence of a vehicle in specific areas and charge for this. Such systems exist in London and Singapore. Decongest the place by charging for it and shift people to cycles, public transport, or walking. As different locations become congested, introduce such systems progressively.
Also, introduce vehicle free zones. This is prevalent in quite a few European cities.
So, bus is the answer. But, - -
BMTC - its authority and structure
Bus - experiences
'Kingfisher' is the answer
Now, supposing the buses were operated by 'Kingfisher', wi-fi enabled, newspapers and magazines for reading, and perhaps even with stewardesses serving chilled beer on the evening runs, and the buses trackable through "Yelli Iddira?" (check out http://www.clinf.com/yi/Y...) service, wouldn't the ridership shoot up straightaway? That's what needs to happen. Let's demand it.
Muralidhar Rao
Bus Services - Even on narrow roads
We need the Buses of Kingfisher Standards
We need Buses with the interiors and exteriors of Kingfisher style running through rich areas. That will takeaway most of the car riders and attract them to Buses. Since Vijay Mallya is running his core business out of Bangalore, he can contribute.
Other prominent players like Reliance will also start and we may have to go for IPL like bidding.
Kingfisher?
Woodpecking
The population of Bengaluru
The population of Bengaluru is too large in contrast with European cities who use such bus services.
Ts, That's a lot of
Population of Cities with BRTS
mcadambi - those pictures with narrow lanes are probably from cities in South /Central America & not from European cities.
Also, many large cities have adapted BRTS, with some services surely being operated on narrow lanes with exclusivity :
Cities (population above 10 lakhs) with operational BRTS :
Country City Population
Australia Brisbane 18 lakhs
Australia Adelaide 11 lakhs
Australia Sydney 43 lakhs
Brazil Curitiba 17 lakhs
Brazil Sao Paulo 109 lakhs
Canada Ottawa 11 lakhs
Chile Santiago 54 lakhs
China Beijing 85 lakhs
China Changzhou 21 lakhs
China Guangzhou 76 lakhs
China Hangzhou 64 lakhs
China Huaian 52 lakhs
China Kunming 57 lakhs
China Shanghai 144 lakhs
China Shenzhen 82 lakhs
China Taichung 10 lakhs
China Xian 27 lakhs
Colombia Bogota 70 lakhs
Ecuador Guayaquil 38 lakhs
Ecuador Quito 18 lakhs
France Paris 120 lakhs
France Toulouse 11 lakhs
Guatemala Guatemala City 12 lakhs
Holland Amsterdam 14 lakhs
Indonesia Jakarta 83 lakhs
Japan Nagoya 22 lakhs
Mexico Mexico City 87 lakhs
Mexico Monterrey 11 lakhs
Mexico Leon 13 lakhs
Peru Lima 76 lakhs
S Africa Capetown 35 lakhs
S Korea Jinan 59 lakhs
S Korea Seoul 103 lakhs
Taiwan Kaohsiung 15 lakhs
Taiwan Taipei 26 lakhs
Tanzania Dar-es-Salaam 25 lakhs
Thailand Bangkok 57 lakhs
USA Las Vegas 17 lakhs
USA Miami 41 lakhs
USA Boston 44 lakhs
USA Los Angeles 129 lakhs
USA Orlando 20 lakhs
USA Pittsburgh 28 lakhs
Venezuela Caracas 27 lakhs
Vietnam Hanoi 34 lakhs
Vietnam Saigon 64 lakhs
Awesome Post with the BRTS cities
I found this via wikipedia on BRTS and Pune and New Delhi have been listed to be BRTS cities in India - well Pune is already boasting a BRTS system here is the link to their website.
http://www.pmtpune.org/html/about_us/brts.asp
Delhi's BRT has no website listing yet...
Pune BRTS
Santsub - thanks.
Pune is the pioneer in India for this concept - cheers to them ! Understanding this concept, & realising it's benefits will take some time in India as most are unaware & feel that it wont work because "road space would be taken away, what we require is more road space". However, the truth is actually quite different as pictures at the beginning illustrate the reality very well.
There are cities that are more congested than bangalore that are using this system & moving people very well, but sadly, this type of transport, which is the most economical & cost-effective, has too many critics & few supporters.
The authorities also fear the public & the media's reaction & have not even begun any test or trials yet.
Good point about cities
Good point about cities naveen. Not to dredge up arguements for the sake of arguements, but i was wondering if the *population densities* of those cities could also be a factor for consideration.
brts
Metro & Rapid Bus
mcadambi & TS - noted yr point. Canton, or Guangzhou, a city north of Hongkong is an example. It was nothing more than the poorer chinese cousin, north of the rich HongKong in 1992 when I first went there - a settlement of a large no. of low-skilled, low-cost labourers with few wide roads, feeding the enormous needs of HK & it's exports. With it's proximity to HK, today it has become larger than HK itself ! & nearly as wealthy - there are high rises & signs of progress everywhere. GSL, or Guangzhou shipyard ltd is now offering stiff competition to South Korean yards !
Despite this extremely rapid rise, transportation is no problem at all as harsh measures were taken when needed - Guanghou has banned bikes recently, rapid bus & metro have eased all congestion & it's very easy to go about, some english signages are seen on the streets now, a sign of it's close proximity to Hong Kong. I feel that the total area of roads in Guangzhou may be the same or lesser than in Bangalore, but it is being managed extremely well.
Metro & Rapid Bus are quite different. Metro is suitable for the very dense CBDs type of development whilst BRT can be customised & made functional as required, & is also open to change easily & inexpensively - this is why I beleive this can work well for Indian cities with changing needs every few years due to rapid development, & we need to recognize & 'cultivate' it soon.
Our country's 'democartic' transportation needs are unique - & Bangalore's problem is even more unique within this unique country - you have a very large percentage of brand conscious high-tech & engg industries that is eductaed, well travelled & aware & demand multi-level garages & urban expressways since there are no transport services that offer any quality in services & private cars are the only option. The traditional industries & the petty buisnesses are quite content with the level of service offered by BMTC as it exists today.
In Mumbai or Kolkata, or even Chennai - this is not the case. The poor standards maintained by public buses & trains is more acceptable than it is in bangalore by the public at large, since by percentage, the 'hep' crowd is small in these cities.
About routes - amidst this forest of confusion, BMTC is trying it's best to provide long haul routes to minimize interchanges as changing buses is not appreciated by the travelling public.
BMTC & BRTS could & should work as described by you - BMTC should provide services out of hubs to various destination locations whilst Inter-hub transit must be well covered by BRTS. However, some overlap is unavoidable & will occur. The key is of course to prioritize public buses, wherever possible & increase the service quality to make it car-competitive - I dont think there is any other way out of this mess. Magic boxes, flyovers, elevated roads - these may release pressure only for a short duration. If the additional road space & conveniences are used for public transport needs, it might be better.
Ts, Can I send a mail to you
Ts,
Can I send a mail to you with details? The study details are in files (excel, etc.). If yes, can you figure out my email-id from my profile?
can always contact another member
this way.
- login to Praja.in first
- then go to the user's profile page, do this by clicking on user's name next to his/her post or comment
- on the profile page, there is a contact tab.
- click on this tab which will be sent to the user's registered email address.
- the email be sent as if it was sent by your registered email id. So the user can reply back to you at your personal email id.
[sorry if you already knew this, wrote the steps in case others didn't know]
reducing chaos/entropy - how?
TS, assuming uniform chaos (entropy) on all the roads, the theory about predictability going down with distance is correct.
One mistake being made all around is widening of roads without any serious measure to control the entropy. Without lane and parking discipline, widened roads only provide more space for particles to move and knock around thus increasing the entropy. More shrunk the space, lesser the chaos as particles are forced to observe order.
Some examples of this theory. 1) Sarakki road (connects Jayanagar 9th block to J P Nagar). Its a narrow road which you would think will get jammed any moment, but it doesn't. Because anyone parking on the side, thus blocking the road, is immediately made aware of his misdeed by the first obstructed vehicle/driver. 2) Widened road that goes through Marathahalli. There is more space on the roads now, extreme lefts are used for halting, parking and walking. There are umpteen cuts in the divider, which no-one minds as drivers 'feel' they can always drive around the vehicles waiting to take U-turns. Net result is a widened road gone waste even though you "feel" as if Marathahalli has become easier to drive through.
Fighting this entropy is important, there is no way to work around it. The expensive ways are to build things like toll roads over storm water drains, elevated roads over highly chaotic areas (Metro too, isn't it). And these expensive projects have to planned well, they need to provide end-to-end low entropy "corridors", otherwise you may create few but very heavy unmanageable points of chaos. The cheaper ways would involve working systematically on selected corridors to reduce entropy. This could require
BMTC is neither in position to hasten implementation of the expensive options, nor the cheaper options. Not sure if BMLTA would be in a position to do that either. Perhaps, Kasturiranga committee's MPC offers the hope.
Hi... Suraj here and this is
Hi... Suraj here and this is my first post on bangalore praja...!
Regarding the BRTS implementation in Pune, the system and the laning of roads is quite impressive. Middle two lanes (with grills on either side) are meant for city buses and no other vehicles move there. But I felt the pune transport has several more miles to cover. Their efficiency and standard of services is far far low compared to bangalore. Buses are pathetic and there are too many small buses which look like tiny match boxes. Also the "reach" of these buses is very poor. The fleet is small. Naturally, private vehicles or autos are to be banked upon. I observed this implementation on pune-satara highway and felt this system can work well in Bangalore given that BMTC has a huge fleet and the buses are quite well maintained.
First challenge is to get that much road space. Second is that it also needs public patronage. That is THE most critical aspect. BMTC is suffering here. Will the car dependent white collared people use it? Are they willing to walk a kilometre or two to the bus stop daily (considering their stressful schedule)? That is where I think a good feeder system(shared auto/taxi, buses) is required which can get them to the big hubs from where buses to all the important destinations will be very frequently available. The same public will be willing to do this if they go to mumbai (ie, shared auto to the local stn, train to the nearest stn, again a shared auto or taxi to the office) because there is absolutely NO OTHER GO and the system is same for one and all!! There is no doubt that this system will also work in bangalore but the big challenge is how to implement it? The idea of taxi-BMTC co-ordination for connectivity to BIAL looks pretty good. I just pray that the model works. It might be used for daily transportation needs of bangaore also without trip booking and all that.
BRTS? no space!
Wiki defines BRT as:
BRT attempts to combine the advantages of a metro system (exclusive right-of-way to improve punctuality and frequency) with the advantages of a bus system (low construction and maintenance costs, does not require exclusive right-of-way for entire length, at least at the beginning).
Compared to standard bus service BRT systems with dedicated right-of-way and thus an increased average transport speed can provide more passenger-miles with the same number of rolling stock and personnel. They also offer the prospect of a more fluent ride than a normal bus immersed in stop-and-go traffic.
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Exlusive right of way? In what way does BMTC now not have this? They are always a menace on the road...overtaking from left right and center..in some parts of blr we instead need to have 'non-brt' to let other vehicles move peacefully..not to be under the fear of getting mowed down..
Also cops maintain their right of way by letting the last bus through before stopping traffic on a lane!
one take away for us is to have the above displayed type of partitioning for the busbays..to contain them at the busstops where they are the most dangerous!
Good Post, Surajshekar !
Surajshekar, welcome - yr post was interseting.
Though BMTC is one of the best run govt public bus services in the country, their image within this city is poor, especially amongst car & private vehicle users, since they compete for space with BMTC buses & end up intruding into each others realm.
This is made worse as motor vehicle owners always argue that the road space is insufficient. For the no. of vehicles on the roads, this maybe true, but no one tries to analyse & think that if the no. of vehicles is reduced with better public transport, it might be beneficial to all.
The authorities have, from the beginning, been succumbing to pressure from the press /media, motor vehicle owners & the pro-growth forces, & have been increasing road supply without succeeding in finding ways to put a stop to the growth in the no. of vehicles.
Attempts by the authorities have also not been diplomatic & many a times, they have tried to snatch away road space for a supposed bus lane, which the motor vehicle owners have now taken for granted as theirs - such attempts will always result in failure.
A tactful way might be to allocate right of ways in all newer developments, such as elevated roads, underpasses, etc. for public buses - this would need to be announced well in advance, so that pressure is stifled right from the start - but the city corpn seems to be still marching ahead with a long list of newer road infrastructure supply to appease private vehicles, without any focus on improving public bus transport. This can be disastrous as these new road developments will soon become insufficient & there will be fresh demands for more.
Citizens' participation & awareness is urgently called for here.
Citizens attitude
Thanks for the encouragement Naveen. I agree that the image of BMTC is not great amongst the bangaloreans. Both BMTC and public have a stake in this issue.
I have always felt that its the people's attitude and temparament that matters most. Let me just compare the statements of a Bangalorean and Mumbaikar on public transport-
Mumbaikar: " Oh the roads are damn crowded, pushing my vehicle through is stressful, distances are really long, parking problems, humid weather, etc.... Let me stick to train, bus, auto, taxi as others do!!!"
Bangalorean: "Oh the roads are damn crowded, Will the BMTC mammoth push through this? No way!! I can atleast take my two wheeler on to the footpath, do some circus and somehow reach office as others do. Distances are manageable and weather is good. so, 2 wheeler/car zindabad!!!". More than 50% of bangalore residents will give another excuse- "Oh I cant read the kannada route boards which BMTC use"
The thing is, who is willing to co-operate? Where to start? How to convince them? and Who will convince them? It has a tendency to get into a deadlock.
There is so much of inertia in the people(for valid reasons, sometimes personal and egoistic like - The "I can afford" factor,etc... ). We know the revolt of parents against the "safe route to school" initiative. Remarks were like "Anything, but not BMTC". Did the initiative work and is still going??(sorry to ask this as I dont know what happened later)
Any steps from BMTC will fail because all buses invariably have to travel on the same roads and people think as I told above. People will obviously not use any BMTC facility from day one. Existing traffic + More BMTC buses means more traffic -> means more time through BMTC. For 2 wheelers, time taken will not differ significantly, thanks to their innovative, yet menacing driving skills. So the final feedback/inference is that the new initiative by BMTC proves ineffective. Traffic problems worsen.
One more thing is the distance factor. After doing all circus in Mumbai, the output is good and encouraging to the people. They(Even I) feel good to have traversed 25+ kms in an hour and feel its worth the trouble. That sort of feeling can really drive people towards public transport. In b'lore, you do all circus and track back to see that you have covered 10 or 12 kms (only if there are no Vatals/ Gowdas/ Kharges/ Yeddy's durbars on the road). To a large extent, the geography of mumbai also contributes to the efficiency. Run 50 buses from say dahisar or borivali to bandra or dadar (which means minimum 12 areas covered); You feel that the city is connected so well! But you see our 201 or 501, you dont get this feeling, right? I think its not apt to blame only BMTC. People need to care more for the city they live in. The pity is also that for more than half the population, bangalore is not "their city", so the "who cares" attitude is also more.
I think i'll post more under the thread "Suvarna peak hour service feedback"
Suraj
chaos
Ts, I have sent the
Ts, I have sent the details.
Admin, thanks for the info.
Wait till the Ahmedabad BRTS