Putting up a placeholder post for logs from the BMRC meeting today. 8 of us were present, so we should expect at least that many notes here.
I will log my notes a bit later, but in short, it was a great meeting. If you weren't there, you just missed it. Mr Sivasailam seems like a no non-sense go-getter type guy, and has a solid team with him. We got answers to all we asked, and equally frank rebuttals for some we probably shouldn't have :) All in all, this was a nice and open meeting that gave us a feel for their passion and commitment, something which we tend to take for granted these days.
ಪ್ರತಿಕ್ರಿಯೆಗಳು
Mr. N. Sivasailam, MD BMRCL 31-10-2008 Meeting-Minutes
Mr. Sivasalam started the meeting with mutual self introductions by Praja members followed by those of his team.
Mr. Naveen started the dialog to be taken up later by Pranav and Suhas point by point.
1. Full details of all phases. Not available except the current phase
a. Approval for survey work for ii phase obatained
b. Property Value speculation un avoidable
2. First Phase.
a. Completion of 2011
b. Working Model
i. Market Survey
ii. Contracting Model
iii. Experts pool
iv. IPR Drawings are protected with copy rights. Hence not shared till copy rights issued
v. Litigations are major hindrance
vi. No plan B in case of road blocks.
vii. Tunnel boring to start by Dec 2009
viii. 6400 Crores 35 KM stretch
3. Communications Transparency through Web Site
a. The MD ascertained that Praja members were keeping track of the official BMRCL site on the web
b. He made it clear that any decisions as and when taken will be immediately posted on the site.
c. The objective being to help reducing misrepresenting of facts by media.
d. Nothing is secret
e. All Secrets are well guarded.
f. New standards are set up in public relationship
i. Information Open to public
ii. Suggestions Welcome
iii. Mr. Sivasailam was critical about PR aspects of some of our IT BT Companies
4. Integration aspects
a. Provision for Bus stops
b. Feeder areas calculation by Clover leaf, Trumpet methods of catchments area
c. Metro does not work in isolation
d. Weekly interactions
e. No proactive integration
5. Design Aspects
a. Latest Design methodology as on to day
b. Station Loading
i. Disending
ii. Embarking
iii. Surge factor
iv. Passenger per minute
c. Parking Only at terminals
i. Bus
ii. Car
iii. Auto
d. Power Supply
i. BESCOM input from two places
ii. Simulation studies
iii. Battery Back up for under ground AC
iv. 50 Mega Watts Power load
e. Standard Gauge
i. All Designs are locked in
ii. No Vendor Lock
f. Station Architecture
i. Competition world wide
ii. Consortium has done it
iii. Station designs were iterated.
6. Looking Forward will be beneficial
a. Mysore
b. Mangalore
Minutes of Meeting with BMRC Officials
Normal 0
Hi All,
The meeting commenced at about 1715 hrs & went on till about 1845 hrs. Mr.N Sivasailam (MD), Mr.Sudhir Chandra (Dir-Planning) & a few other BMRCL staff attended the meeting on behalf of BMRC.
Praja members who attended were: Pranav (Silkboard), Naveen, Murali, Suhas (srkulhalli), Srinidhi sampath (Blrsri), Ritesh, Usha (kiran8) & Aswin.
Below is a summary of the discussions between Praja members & BMRC, with comments :
1. Alignments for future phases of the Metro & why they were not being finalized in an effort to speed up the process.
Mr.Sivasailam explained that the DPR approved by the central & state governments, including financial arrangements was only for the 1st phase, & for the next phase, the process would have to be recommenced again. Alignments for two routes (EC to Yelahanka; & Kathriguppe to Whitefield) & extension of the 1st phase N-S route (Puttenahalli to NICE road, etc.) had been sent to DMRC for preparation of DPR/s. He also explained that the various processes for the 2nd phase would run parallel & overlap with the construction of the 1st phase to minimize delays.
When queried, BMRC officials clarified that construction of future underground lines (during Phase-2) that will likely have interchanges with Phase-1 underground lines (possibly at City market) would be possible & will be undertaken without disruption of services to the Metro Phase-1 underground lines that will already be in use by then.
2. Planning of multi–modal interchanges at key Metro stations.
BMRC was liaising with BMTC, BMLTA & other relevant bodies for effecting multi-modal exchanges. However, Mr. Sivasailam also emphasized that BMRCL’s jurisdiction did not extend beyond construction & delivery of the Metro railway.
3. Provisions for bus-bays, IPTs & parking facilities at Metro stations.
At least two bus bays would be provided at each station & areas earmarked for IPTs (autos, etc.). Parking would be made available at some key stations in the periphery, but not at stations within CBDs, as is the norm with most Metros worldwide.
Comment : This is perhaps the largest intra-city transport infrastructure project being executed & it is obvious that each stake holder needs to be fully aware of what plans are afoot by other bodies, particularly transport bodies about the steps being taken by each entity to address the various issues that will crop up, both during the construction phase, & more importantly, upon commencement of operations. Without working on various aspects together well in time, problem areas are bound to surface & it might well be too late & expensive to correct them, if at all possible, besides causing inconveniences to the general public.
This is especially troublesome since BMRC is of the opinion that it is too early now to work on feeder routes & that it might be more appropriate to do this about a year later. We are not aware if BMTC is working on this, & if so, what the status is.
An example of an issue that might pose problems is the access for entry & exit to /from stations for feeder buses – if proper plans are not chalked out in the design plans for stations that include overhead bus ramps that might be needed across roads, bus entry & exit arrangements from each direction might turn out to be poor, & buses may conflict with other traffic.
Another area that may pose obstacles is making arrangements for convenient pedestrian access between Metro stations & Commuter rail stations (at Yeswantapur, Malleswaram & Deepanjalinagar). This also needs to be planned upfront, else it might result in uncorrectable defect/s.
4. Public Inconveniences during tunneling for underground sections.
We were pleased to hear that only the stations would be built by cut & cover method, & the underground sections would all be executed with tunnel boring machines (TBMs), without any disruption on the surface.
5. Sharing of BMRC activities with the public.
Mr.Sivasailam explained that he believed in sharing information with the public about all BMRC’s activities & in the case of trees that had been cut along KR road, the locals had been briefed well before it had been done. Unfortunately, many English newspapers had reported this after the trees were cut, stoking some public sentiments unnecessarily.
6. Station designs that were changed recently.
Owing to difficulties & further disruptions for building the complicated designs as also due to high costs, the designs had to be changed.
7. Security arrangements.
BMRC advised that large packages & suitcases, etc. would be permitted on the Metro, unlike Delhi, where such is not permitted. Whilst this may be risky, it also has advantages & is convenient to some sections of the public, whilst it may sometimes cause inconveniences for daily commuters.
The move to permit luggage also makes it possible for BMRC to plan a metro line up to the new airport if & when a decision is taken, though the ride would take long with many stops in between, making it somewhat inconvenient for air travelers.
8. Other matters.
Mr.Sivasailam reiterated that BMRC’s web page was being maintained up-to-date, as also confirmed by some praja members. In this context, Praja members greatly appreciated their efforts in trying to keep the general public aware about all decisions, developments & the transparent tendering process that was being followed by them.
BMRC is not involved with the high-speed airport rail link, yet. However, if & when the state government takes a decision in this regard, they may be the body or a new entity might be set up for executing the project. Also, BMRC is not involved with the Monorail project.
Bombardier had opened up a Metro coach factory at Vadodara (Baroda), eyeing the Indian market with upcoming Metros in many cities. It has also bagged a contract from Delhi metro for coaches. See this link: (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2007/08/09/stories/2007080952561000.htm).
The meeting was very cordial & BMRC officials were quite transparent & open to discussion. BMRC’s commitment was very evident & well appreciated. It was clear that they were well up to the task, though certain areas, such as better liaison between other bodies through the construction phase itself was desirable.
Timeline:
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
Good feel after meeting, we need to do our homework better
Suhas
Suhas
Metro at grade
Bangalore - Need to beef up BMLTA
Arrived back in Bangalore last night, too late for this important meeting. Looks like I relly missed a good one.
We have talked about here it a few times already.... it is really obvious that BMLTA needs to be strengthened quite a bit. Multiple independant project managers may successfully execute their part of the story, but who will make sure it fits the city in the end?
Thanks,
Ravi
Follow up on BMRC meeting
Suhas
Suhas
well written informative article
they have it all figured out
metro
quite some way to go
Yes, there was a bit of cockiness on the part of the MD when he kept insisting that enough thinking was going into the various aspects by the concerned people in the government agencies involved. Now, if that was quite the case, we wouldn't have all the mess we see all around us, would we? And, while there's an air of professionalism about the way the BMRCL is going about things today, this kind of cockiness can be its undoing eventually, landing it up as another BMTC down the years.
At a presentation made recently at the IIMB by Delhi Metro authorities, they had specifically talked about how they had taken over traffic management in the project sites, and managed it well enough to the extent of avoiding having to put up notices stating 'inconvenience regretted'. BMRCL's approach on the contrary appears to be '"that's the traffic police's job; we just execute the project", quite as blsri has stated.
Even on the matter of changing of the station architecture, one would have expected them to provide a lot more information suo moto than the sketchy responses to our specific queries.
Perhaps, since we have, over the years, come to expect very little from government organisations, we see them as being pro-active. But, in my opinion, there's quite some way to go.
Muralidhar Rao
Metro parking
Suhas
Suhas
Parking in metro
Parking...
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
Metro - Various Issues
IDS, Narayan - I agree with what you say. Feeder buses will be provided from all stations & should be used for access to Metro stations. The stations at end points & those that are far away from central areas along the Metro routes are the ones that need some parking spaces for those that prefer to park & ride, certainly not 2-3 football stadium sized ones with moving walkways /walkalators !
Providing parking at stations in CBDs & midpoints is not required, & in fact, defeats the very purpose of building the Metro, which is to reduce the no. of vehicles plying on the roads.
Suhas - Buidling Metro at grade is much less expensive when compared to having it elevated or underground, no doubt, but still much more expensive than running buses or BRT. As I had mentioned, building a Metro where development is sparse is neither necessary nor is it financially viable as costs would be too high. Metro, by design is to carry tens of thousands of commuters, typically servicing dense CBD areas. Most of the Metros in the world have been built after the normal buses & trams were found inadequate, & I dont think there is a single example of a Metro being built first & development occurring later. This being the case, most of the Metros are either elevated or underground, barring a few outlying areas as space constraints do not permit Metro at grade when the city's CBDs are already dense.
Metro at grade on ORR is not necessary as CTTP survey has shown that phpdt levels at 2025 are lower than 15,000, & BRT or Monorail would suffice, & is being planned accordingly.
The authorities have decided to keep a very wide median on PRR to allow for trains (not necessarily Metro) to be run in the future, if ever it becomes necessary, whilst also making provisions for BRT.
Blrsri, Murali - DMRC managing traffic & also running feeder buses - this is good reference information, & is not a prescription for all cities. BMRC does not necessarily have to follow this example. One can understand their reluctance to get involved with operating feeder services or manage traffic. The situation here is pathetic as regards co-ordination between various agencies is concerned, again because things have gotten very bad with the enormous traffic & other infrastructural problems. Thus, urgent steps have to be taken first to improve this.
As regards station architecture, BMRC is providing some stations within CBDs with futursitic designs whilst at the same time ensuring that inconvenience to general public during construction is minimal, as stated by Mr.Sivasailam.
3 letters that can solve a lot of problems
www.driving-india.blogspot.com
Great Doc !
"And the end of all our exploring, will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time" - T S Eliot, Poet
ASJ - This is exactly my language ! I have seen the disappearance of the bicyle in Bangalore over the decades. And this has been a tragedy, to me.
When we were at school & in college, we pedalled 3-4 miles without any problem. Now, one cant even pedal a few hundred meters as the cars & motorbikes have taken over the streets with impunity & chase away the bicycles.
We have these groups, seeking multi-level garages, demanding flyovers, urban expressways.
When cars begin driving to shopping malls, instead of bicycles riding to parks, it certainly is a symptom that the city is ill, needing a cure !
Could you do me a favor ? Could you find out if they market these bicycles in India, particularly Bangalore ? I know that ITDP has developed a bicycle & rickshaw in Delhi, but I have been unable to locate a retail outlet that sells this. I now opt for the one that is pictured on the video, & would love to buy one, if available here.
Metro on PRR
Suhas
Suhas
Whats wrong with parking lots
Suhas
Suhas
Parking...
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
More parking
My notes from the meeting
Sorry for the delay, but here are my notes.
First of all, agree with Suhas only in part. We could have been better prepared, but we were anyway not trying to claim expertise in technical areas like route alignments, specifications of digging work and more.
Mr Sivasailam is smart and PR savvy though. Our point, which Suhas and I made separately was around having adequate planning specifications for new city areas that would come on outskirts to include provisions for Metro tracks. For example, North of K R Pura area will see development sooner or later as City stretches towards new BIA. When planning roads or layouts there, keep land for Metro - this was the basic thought.
But the way we presented this, it came across to Mr Sivasailam as
I think us carrying a presentation will help. Mr Sivasailam clubbed two of our points together and said that we are not clear as a group as to what our suggestion is. Fair enough if he saw it that way.
Anyway. Mr Sivasailam, Mr Sudhir Chandra (Director, Projects - possibly the man behind a lot of planning work, he has been there for long), Mr Jayaram (Envirnomental Officer) and one more gentleman (don't recall name now, as he didn't speak much) - all four of them seemed very knowledgeable and were very kind to give us so much time.
We asked about Metro phase 1 extensions. Personally, my confusion around phase 1 extension resulted from some English newspaper reports that talked of extensions to all four reaches (N, S, E W). But there are no phase 1 extensions planned on East and West reaches, there never was a plan. Byappanahalli to Beniganahalli and beyond is all phase II. As per Mr Sivasailam, all that is planned is on the website. Anything beyond that would be our or newspaper's imagination.
At this point, we double stressed to BMRC folks that we think they have set new benchmarks in handing out regularly updated information to public via their website. An argument we made was for draft or in-progress items to be made public as well, to which we got a reply that things that are not final need not be made public as it would be needless and speculative, but once work items are final (we were talking about phase II, phase III route alignments), it would be on the website immediately. Fair enough.
All the answers and discussions gave us a good feel about BMRC upper management, except one. To me, this was the question I went to this meeting for:
Answer was good but not good enough.
A few of these questions were left by Mr Sivasailam as - "I am here to run the trains, BMTC will run the buses, we are coordinating with them (via BMLTA meetings), and we trust them to do the job" (not quoting him verbatim, but this was the essence).
Now this is an okay answer, but not good enough. Integration with BMTC (and other modes as and when they come - monorail) is what is going to make or break Metro ridership numbers, the integration is in Metro's interests more than BMTC.
There is time though, two more years, good enough time for BMRC and BMTC to work each small detail out. And looking at BMRC's management, I think they will do much more than what they have done on BMTC integration thus far. I am very hopeful.
So to sum it up - wonderful meeting, nice guys, good going, with Bus integration as the only possible glitch that we could see from their answers.
Parking Restrictions Necessary
Suhas,
Experience overseas & also in this country has shown that when parking slots are made available easily, car usage goes up, whilst public transport gets ignored. This is beacuse public transport can never be as convenient for point to point access when compared with private transport. North America is a prime example, where public transport had largely been ignored in development of their cities, barring a few exceptions such as New York, whilst road construction, costing huge amounts went along. Today, they face a serious situation with calls from the whole world to reduce their emmissions. It would be better for this country to start curbing this sort of car-dependent mobility as there are many social implications, pollution & other costs of road space usage.
Cars occupying a disproportionately high percentage of road space which is also meant for buses, public transport & other essential emergency services, whilst carrying so few, is obviously undesirable. If we want our roads to be clutter free when we want to use the car for taking our old or injured to hospital in an emergency, or when we are time pressed for some reason & prefer to use the car & are prepared to meet the costs, we want roads that are clear for these quick trips.
Thus, costs for car usage & occupying road space which effects so many others must be made higher whilst supply of car facilities are simultaneously lowered. This is the reason why we have congestion /cordon pricing in the leading cities as the social costs of occupying street space (particularly during peak hours) that delays & inconveniences so many others using buses /public transport, emergency services, etc must be met by the user/s.
Even in the most developed countries, traffic restraints have been necessary to keep a check on private vehicle usage.
BBMP had foolishly stopped collecting parking fees all over the city, & parking of vehicles along the street kerbsides could not be kept in check due to poor public transport all these years. They are now working on a policy to charge for parking everywhere, based on a formula of differential pricing, once the Metro is operational. The CBD areas will attract much higher parking fees, similar to Manhattan in New York or in central London, whilst it will be lower in outlying areas. Also, supply of parking will be strictly controlled to keep a check on car usage.
Unless such controls are in place, car usage will not diminish beyond a small percentage, which will anyway get taken over by newer users who will try to fill in the voids left by Metro users if strict controls are not in place.
I hope it is clear now as to why supply of parking slots needs strict control, as also why there is a need for higher costs for car usage.
Undercharging for car use has led to this mess, & surely, we do not want it to continue !
Do we want a mess around Metro Station?
IMHO, we need excellent parking
Agree to disagree
Dont subsidise parking, but choice is neccessary
Suhas
Suhas
bike (motor and motorless) need parking
In general phase 1 is not very useful
Vinay - Parking Restrictions is a Must
Vinay,
The validity of the points raised by you are not clear.
1) Whilst you mention that Metro is intended to reduce car traffic on the roads, you also imply that cars have to be facilitated with parking at the stations (the more, the better, is what you say). Will this not increase cars on the roads leading to the station/s & result in congestion around the stations ? Would it not be better to board a common feeder bus or use a bicycle to get to the station & reduce congestion on roads leading to station/s ?
2) Free bicycle parking at stations is a good idea & though, at present, it is a nightmare to ride bicycles on our roads, is it not better to take steps to make this possible for bicycle riders ? It has been done in many cities, & you have also experienced this in europe. Providing safe & secure bicycle infrastructure would of course be even harder if excessive car parking is allowed at stations as the cars would push off the bicycles on the roads, as is already happening now, is'nt it ?
3) Why do you feel that BMTC feeder services will not be good enough ? If we want our city to be congestion free, then we must insist & fight for better feeder services, covering all possible catchment areas. If we just write off BMTC as incapable, then we must also accept even more cluttered roads & not expect improvements, whilst the car population keeps increasing, is'nt it ?
4) So, will providing sufficient car parking at metro stations reduce congestion, or increase it ?
Some parking slots at stations is obviously required to cater to old people or the physically impaired, as also for some odd /urgent users, who are prepared to meet higher parking costs, but certainly not for regular /daily commuters, such as office goers, beacuse, again they will clutter the roads & inconvenience the bicyle users, pedestrians & everybody else, is'nt it ? If people want to use cars as status symbols, fine, but a system that charges heavily for car use by imposing high parking fees, higher car taxes, restricted parking spaces, etc is the only way to reduce car usage. Some will still prefer to use cars, okay fine, but our streets will be far less cluttered than if these higher costs & restricted parking were not imposed, is'nt it ?
Bus bays for school children
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
Shared Autos would be good feeder
All I can say for sure is..
You will be searching for parking and reached destination!!
oh! for good last mile connectivity
The moral of the story is that unless the last mile connectivity is good enough to get even the likes of Vinay (and not just Vasanth) to avail them, METRO ridership will not be good enough to either sustain the operations or reduce congestion on the city roads. That's where TVS/ Kingfisher could come in, so that while Vasanth mingles with the Janata in a BMTC bus, Vinay relaxes in style in the TVS bus (and, perhaps sipping beer on the evening run if in a Kingfisher service), paying may be double the fare.
Muralidhar Rao
Wrong frame of reference
Use Car if you can Afford
Vinay,
When you so emphatically state that you wud prefer to drive from BSK 3rd Stage to Peenya, etc. if there are no parking options, you speak for yourself & there may be others like you, no doubt, but do not assume all car owners think alike. I am a car owner too, as are most others here. There will be some parking options made available at stations in the periphery, but not excessive nos. as real estate cost is exorbitant. Reflecting this, the cost for parking at stations will also be kept high, as already stated by BMRC during our meeting.
If you prefer to use the car, you will have to pay heavily by the hour for parking at Metro stations & end up spending a lot, or drive all the way. Dont be too sure your employer will provide you parking at the other end, though once the Metro is operational. He may prefer to provide a bus for pickups & dropoffs from metro stations, & not provide parking at his premises, except for a few top officials who can afford it as his real estate is equally expensive, & he may choose to utilise it otherwise.
Street side parking will also become scarce & expensive, depending on where your destination is. So, the choice would be yours - if you are ready to shell out, sure, use the car. Most others will not think the same, & there will be some control on the no. of road vehicles - the choice is yours & for all others too ! But, dont expect the city to provide subsidised & abundant parking for you - they will not due to very high costs, & not after they have already spent heavily & provided alternate transport facilities.
Praja's aim includes trying to help out with the effort to decongest our streets. If we give up & not try to make our streets bicycle & pedestrian friendly, it will never happen - it will take time, but it has to be done as in most other countries, for that is the future, not encourage excessive use of space consuming, polluting cars on the streets - this is quite obvious. You seem to have given up the fight even before it has begun ! If it is'nt done in 10 years, okay - at least, our next generation will be able to enjoy & that itself is a consolation, at least for some of us here.
You are right when you say that no one is going to sacrifice things for public good, & even you would not put yourself to undue inconvenience. Unfortunate as it is true, car users must be restricted severely if we have to bring about a turnaround. Else, we will continue with this mess forever, with no hope, creating more & more car parking zones with the city remaining grid-locked !
The countries that imagined that providing infrastructure for cars would be good investments are now backing out & restricting car usage. Surely, we do not want to fall in the same trap, do we ?
Obsessed for parking along the entire route of Bangalore Metro
“
Transit-oriented development
Transit-oriented development (TOD) is a residential or commercial area designed to maximize access to public transport, and mixed-use/compact neighborhoods tend to use transit at all times of the day. Many cities striving to implement better TOD strategies seek to secure funding to create new public transportation infrastructure and improve existing services. Other measures might include regional cooperation to increase efficiency and expand services, and moving buses and trains more frequently through high-use areas. Other topics fall under this concept:
Pedestrian- and bicycle-friendly design
Biking and walking instead of driving can reduce emissions, save money on fuel and maintenance, and foster a healthier population. Pedestrian- and bicycle-friendly improvements include bike lanes on main streets, an urban bike-trail system, bike parking, pedestrian crossings, and associated master plans. The most pedestrian- and bike-friendly variant of smart growth and New Urbanism is New Pedestrianism because motor vehicles are on a separate grid.
”
Reasons justifying parking are the very things to fight for
I am sad at some of the reasons for justifying parking. In Mumbai where all I ever used was buses and trains, walking was a part of daily routine. The nearest train station was 1.5 km away. In London, I use the train everyday, the station again is a mile away (1.6km). Have people in Bangalore forgotten how to walk, is walking going to become extinct? Huge number of tube and train users walk 10-15 minutes evefry day.
Buses - BEST is a model worth researching (I have said it so many times). They have 1500 less buses than Bangalore and yet manage to carry half a million more!!
But here we are at a time when climate change is the biggest of challenges wanting more investment in motorised transport?
WHY? Because, footpaths are not there. WHY can't we cycle? Because roads are unsafe, cycle tracks are not provided. WHY can't we use buses? Coz connectivity is poor......
All these things that are considered basic in developed world are missing and instead of fighting for them we are making lack of these facilities as an excuse for more motorisation.
Pune Corporation has now been pushed to developing a NMT cell. Is there one in Bangalore? If not, fight for it. We have spent many man hours discussing bus route and frequency rationalisation - take that agenda forward. If footpaths are missing, ask why IRC norms are not in place. Force the Corporation to accept on paper every road without footpath to be given a status of 'incomplete road works' (we have partly managed this in Puen).
Also look at the figures, rethink them, fast forward 20 years and then ask if more facilities for parking is the right way forward.
Mumbai's investment in 55 flyovers in 90s is described as the - 9% plan. This is because 82% use buses and trains, 9% use intermediate public transport (taxis and rickshaws) and 9% are in their cars. So for sake of 9% 1500 crores were spent when by now, the economic capital should have had 5000 Volvo like buses.
Now work out (for sake of ease use 10 instead of 9%) what 10% of 16 million is? It surpasses the number of vehicles in Pune today. Pune is 4 million, it will keep growing (as will Bangalore), to become another Mumbai. 80% of Pune uses personal vehicles. PMC wants to reverse the stats. They want to make 80% travel in PT (buses and trains) but are investing 10k crores on road expansion!! What they have not done is basic maths - by 2030, if Pune is 16 million, 20% of that still beats number of vehicles on Pune's roads today.
So work on projections. What will Bangalore's population be in 2030, 2040, 2050? Even 10% of that were to use vehicles, the roads will remain clogged.
I would ask BMRC MD another question (someone can if there is another meeting). Is the cost of ticket going to be cheaper than use of a scooter? If not what are they planning with the Corporation to change this equation.
Finally, yes, two wheelers are less space occupying, but they do pollute, they are dangerous and they contribute maximally to congestion by virtue of the ease with which they cause chaos on our roads - London got it right by calling it the Congestion charge (rather than a pollution charge lest people think overnight all vehicles will become electronic).
Start walking, start cycling, start using those 4000 buses and demand more of these 3 things.
ASJ
PS: Had to come back and edit my typo.
www.driving-india.blogspot.com
come on guys - no parking needed
Just caught up with all the comments (and fixed typos in my morning notes :)). Come on guys, idontspam and others are right - the "setup" has to be to make people consider using public transport all the way from home to the destination. Creating subsidized parking space near the stations is not going to help the cause. It will only serve to create demands for more and more parking space.
If demands for parking space for cars at metro stations persist, I would see it in these two ways
But please, no subsidized parking spaces at Metro stations.
One interesting question we asked BMRC was - "can we carry bicycles inside Metro trains? Any bike racks/stands etc in the coaches". Answer was no.
How many coaches?
www.driving-india.blogspot.com
Foldable Bicycles - A Great Idea !
ASJ,
Bangalore Metro will have 6 coaches - they start initially with 3 along the first reach (Byappanahalli to Minsk square), then increase to 6 later when other reaches are completed. They will have a capacity to carry over 2000 passengers (6 coaches). I think it will be possible later to retrofit the coaches for accommadating bicycles, if & when they become necessary - this is being done on UBahn in Berlin & many other Metros.
The idea of foldable bicycles is really revolutionary as it does away with the need for parking spaces & allows commuters to use it on both sides of the journey without the need for any special facilities. This is a major, major benefit.
I think it's only a matter of time before Indian makers appear on the scene with foldable bicycles - we can wait. The metro has to come up first !
As regards costs for travel, two-wheelers now cost less than Rs.1/- per km (fuel only, bikes below 150cc) & costs are likely to remain lower than Metro /feeder bus for short trips when convenience of point to point & time savings are added. However, for longer trips (over 10 or 12 km), the Metro /feeder bus option will be better as it becomes inconvenient by two wheeler.
Two-wheelers are also polluting & also, due their nimbleness, they obstruct & inconvenience other road users. The only solution to bring their nos. down is to tax them heavily, as they should for all road-based private vehicles, except buses, taxis & goods vehicles (public transport & commodity carriers).
Bangalore's NMT ? Well, this has become a car dependent city & is nowhere near having one, yet. But now, with some right decisions being taken by the authorities (at last !), there is hope. So, we should start with an effort to push for this, too.
You are very correct in your assessment about road development & traffic projections. Similar to Mumbai /Pune, the CTTP for Bangalore has projected an increase in traffic on the roads by 2025, even with all these mass transit additions, but does not attempt to suggest how this may be remedied. The only way is to make road travel by private vehicles much more expensive & inconvenient by stifling parking areas, increasing parking costs & bringing in heavy taxes at purchase & also stiff annual taxes. Fuel prices cannot be increased as it will effect commodity prices.
End to end public transport is the need
Singapore MRT stations have no provisions for parking (except for cycles) paid or otherwise. Many of them have bus interchanges next to them from where buses head out to the hinterland. If there is no interchange, then there will be a bus stop right outside the exits. All have taxi stands next to them for people that want to get home quicker.
I am not happy with Mr.Sivasailam's answer that his job is to run trains. His job is NOT to run trains. His job is to move people as quickly as possible (trains can run empty) and therefore he needs to link up with BMTC and not assume that it will be managed by someone else. Just shows how blinkered even the vision of top people can be!
There is plenty of time before NM will chug out. The layout of the tracks is well known and the location of the stations. BMTC has to provide feeder services. Again, in Singapore buses reach out to every nook and corner in the hinterland. Once buses reach a locality, they stop every 200 m.
I agree with Dr. ASJ (Doc - please break up your post into paragraphs to improve readability). The whole emphasis is on enabling the car owner to reach his destination quickly (remove signals, widen roads, etc) and not on improving the quality of commute of the 90th percentile and below.
Srivathsa
Drive safe. It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.
It is not about need but it is how best to meet the need
I think Mr. Sivasailam is right in concentrating on his primary mandate which is building a Metro. He is of course not working in isolation. He takes part in dialogs, with all concerned sister organizations. He is transparent enough through the web. There is BMLTA over and above who are in charge of inter department co-ordination.
“There are no secrets. All secrets are guarded well” - Sivasailam
In theory I am all for the ideas proposed
California goes for high speed rail
Thanks, Vinay
Vinay,
Nice to hear you say "I am all for having cyclist-friendly streets, and even more important, pedestrian-friendly streets. That would be simply great".
You are correct - it is going to be an uphill task, but that's the only right path there is. All others lead nowhere & are much worse !
As for improvements - rest assured, if we fight & convince people, they will respond. As to when they will respond, it would depend on how strong our plea is & how much we push for it.
I am quite certain that our pleas are being heard - BBMP planning this parking policy is one example !
Maybe we have another meeting with Mr.Srisailam
Murali-sir,
Your fears are vindicated. It seems that a lot of thinking is happening, but execution is not. It is all very well to be cocky and confident - but work normally speaks for itself. We really don't want another Calcutta Metro story here (it took some 16 years to get done for the [fully underground] Dumdum - Tollygunge section).
Why don't we fix up another meeting with Srisailam, prepare a bit and then grill him?
Srivathsa
Drive safe. It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.