BWSSB - tracking and interaction

Hi All,

I don't think that the standards or norms for consumption patterns for various resources, as envisaged by past experiences (or even those calculated scientifically) will continue to remain as benchmarks for the future.

The world's human population, the number of households & vehicles have already crossed levels that make previous consumption levels unsustainable.

No doubt water may not be in the same league as other more finite resources (due to possibilities for increases in supply with desalination plants), but due to excessive strain on other needs such as power, infrastructure for building & pumping water, etc., water will also become a scarce & expensive resource & efforts to bring down consumption levels will soon demand more attention.

An example to reduce per-capita consumption is to recycle water & use filtered water for washing, etc. as a standrad & on a much larger scale, than it is presently. The practice of using running water for various activities also needs more attention. Spring-loaded taps & faucets will soon have to be made mandatory.

From looking up & gauging nations or individuals based on high consumption levels, I think we are soon going to see a world that respects & craves for reduced levels of consumption, & the new benchmarks are going to be set out after successful experiences with such belt-tightening.

Water will be no exception to this rule of the future.

Per capita is a wrong measure 

Why?

I am in total agreement with Zenrainman when he suggests we look at reducing our daily water consumption by 20%. I think it is the fundamenbtal duty of every inhabitant of this earth to cnsume judiciously what is definitely a finite quantum in terms of availability. If other country citizens consume more, that too needs to be condemned.

Reducing consumption really does not mean we have to cut corners by stingy behaviour. At present there is so much wasteage in small acts of ommission such as running the tap when brushing or shaving etc all of which can be easily avoided and considerable savings achieved.

Reducing consumption in short means reducing wasteful consumption and being mindful of using this most precious gift which all of us take so much for granted.

 How about taking individual responsibility and reducing water demand, recycling water and using Ecosan:)

Will people here take a look at their last monthly water bill and tell us how much litres per capita per day they are consuming? Can they then reduce it by 20 % over the next 2 months ?

Would be enough to make up for T.G Halli water loss 

Dr R Venkataraman has some dire predictions on the water supply situation - his antecendents seem to check out (though he may have vested interests in getting funds allocated by seeming alarmist - but this is for a good cause so better to take at face value and start doing something about it). Have been saying the same thing.
At sanjayv (regarding bwssb gyan) - will try to get to the gyan and make sure the structure stays the same (similar to additions on the sustainable transportation but with formatting and linking to match your good efforts - let me know if you disagree)

thanks sanjay.

paging ERR sir. please note these links.

At the risk of incurring silkboard's "wrath" (who is always trying to stay on topic) here are my thoughts st(r)aying off-topic.

At zenrainman: On sustainability - why not separate the regulator from the provider? In our example, let BWSSB do the heavy investing, fixing charges (with public hearings), water distribution, sewerage collection and treatment. Or, water purification, distribution, sewerage collection/transportation and treatment can be "quadri"furcated (similar to electricity generation, T&D). An umbrella regulator can look after all types of conservation (including mandating and preserving wetlands, water retention/detention and so on, similar to EPA in the US), regulating hazardous waste (industrial, medical etc.), deciding and enforcing penalties etc. KSPCB is ideally suited to do that. Why create another govt. dept. (BUWMI) and multiply inefficiencies? Of course, experts need to be hired (not shocked at lack of hydrologists at BWSSB - like mentioned previously they go on milking the Cauvery, get foreign loan and most likely foreign equipment) and "teeth", independence provided for professional operation. Social obligations can be taken care of by a Social Dept. in govt. that provides subsidy cards (or coupons) that can be presented at any store, utility providers etc. to get products or services at subsidised rates. In other words, institutional, legal and ecological taken care of by KSPCB, social and financial by an umbrella govt. dept. (for all social needs) and technical by BWSSB. Just an alternative proposal - not trying to offend or argue.

 Question is how do we build the right institutions with the right people

How indeed. I have complained and people have proposed. Ultimately it is about the people in these bodies. So if you do end up building a great institution in BWSSB and realize the dicks and harrys in BBMP or some gram panchyat approved a layout flushing everything down the stormwater drain for a penny in his swiss bank account.

 Every family in Bangalore which consumes 25,000 litres of water every month gets a subsidy of Rs 399/-  

This family pays Rs 25 as Sanitary cess and gets a subsidy of Rs 600/- every month (since this is the cost of treating sewage after collection and conveyance). So every family connected to the BWSSB gets Rs 1000/- a month as subsidy. 

A poor family in a slum pays Rs 1 per 10 litres pot or Rs 100 a kilolitre. The richer ones pay Rs 6 or Rs 9 a kilo-litre. To use a Sulabh Shouchalaya you pay Rs 2 per use or Rs 10 per family or Rs 300/- per month. The rich pay Rs 25 for their shit to defile all the water bodies around.

This is the 'socialism' we have been practising for 62 years :)

Unless we as a society say that the poor get their share of water we will have 'illegal' connections and patronage politics. therefore we need 'social sustainability'. 

Institutionally if we do not have the right framework all work will stay temporary to be done over and over again. Technology is the last of the issues and there are many to choose from. Question is how do we build the right institutions with the right people (BWSSB has not a single hydro-geologist for example)  AND empower them as well as hold them accountable we will be nowhere.

The financial sustainability points have been made and I would suggest that each property owner should be taxed for the 'stormwater' contributed to be managed by institutions.

Ecologically water has to be recognised as a temporaly 'finite' good and both catchment management as well as pollution mangement should be done by the BUWMI NOT the Pollution Control Board. This is the way forward.

To merely dream that some technology or the other can exist in vacum and present a miracle solution is to day dream.

This engagement is long drawn and takes time. ABide is hard at work on this as is the BWSSB, given political and power constraints. 

Shall keep you updated on what is happening because all these recommendations will come in public domain for discussion and inputs before they are finalised.  

As regards rainwater harvesting, the rules and regulations are yet to be drafted and unless that is done it does not become mandatory. One has been on that issue for the last 15 years...the time frame required for institutional changes in INDIA :)   

So prajgale onwards then as we make haste slowly..to set things rolling right when they have been allowed to go kaput for a long, long time.

First of the 6 sustainable level suggestion appears to be logical. However, the greater emphasis should be on coordinated planning and policy making. Implementing agencies can be different. In fact it might be better to have different implementing agencies so that all ills of the city is not blamed  on just one amalgamous agency.

I wonder whether being pro-poor is because we feel guilty and are not able to alleviate their lot or whether there is a genuine concern that urban slum dwellers too get a fair deal. The tilt in any case should not be to the exclusion of one or the other section of society. Have we not had enough of socialistic leanings for the past 62 years since independence? How about some concern for the middle and upper middle class citizens? Are they not Indians and citizens of this city?

Legal frame work is essential so that planning and policy that the agencies adhere to are in sync with overall objective of equitable distribution of facilities and services. But this should not become reason for the agencies to play a blame game. RWH has been made mandatory in March 2009. Who is ensuring it is happening?

Why financial subsidies in the first place? We all pay taxes, CentralGovernment gives loans to State Governments and if we all learn to utilise our natural wealth optimally, why should we need subsidy in the first place? I understand BWSSB supplies water at Rs. 16 per kilo litre while it costs them Rs. 42 per kilo litre. Why should the 26 rupee gap be subsidised?

Open and transparent technical decision is welcome, but stake holders must be willing to look at advancements in technology fairly and squarely instead of sweeping it under the carpet.

Of course ecological level of sustainability must be the corner stone of all civic services. However, I think one more dimension of ecological sustainability should be zero or minimal maintenance requirements. What is the use off desilting Lakes and open drains every year? When technology exists for a maintenance free solution, are stake holders afraid of losing their annual contract?

I wonder oh, I wonder!

 We need sustainability at 6 levels

Institutional- We need a Bangalore Urban water management institution , amalgamAting the BWSSB and LDA as well as bringing stormwater and groundwater in the purview of the BUWMI

Social- we need a defined pro-poor policy , debated and discussed with milestones

Legal- A framework for managing groundwater , rainwater and wastewater as well as water quality as legally enforceable mandate

Financial- Targetted subsidies and removal of all misdirected subsidies

Technical- an open transparent and communicated decisions on all projects

Ecological- Looking at water holistically 

Friends,

Can someone give me step by step instructions to upload a host of technical papers I can provide on water management which includes papers on infiltration Vs drainage, lake cleaning, RWH, pervious pavers and ecological roads etc?

I am afraid some of them are likely to be Company specific and to that extent I might have to be excused if it seems as if I am 'promoting' my Company.

Cheers,

Chari

 @n: Sorry, I missed the tone and gave an earnest response.  Agree that the gyan section does not raise technical questions.  However, it is going to take me a lot of time to get to the point of getting comfortable with the subject to start posing analysis and questions there.  If you feel you have questions and analysis  to contribute and have time to spare, please feel free to edit or add to the gyan.  Only one request -> I am trying to keep this gyan section such that every piece of infomation is properly referenced and double checked.  Please try to maintain that.  Thanks.

Hi Sanjayv,

Would be delighted to share some of the case studies and documented recommendations with you. We need to meet up at your earliest convenience. Let me know when & where.

In the meantime, maybe you might want to look at the link related to "Resource Information" in the web site www.atlantiscorp.com.au

BTW, I met Dr. A Ravindra earlier this afternoon. As you may be aware he is presently the Advisor to CM on Infrastructure Projects. He was effusive in his interest in our technology and has agreed to take up the matter with the Commissioner BBMP right away. I also received similar enthusiastic response from Mr. Sivakumar K.M., the Administrator of BBMP. Commissioner Meena was not in office. All of them felt our proposal deserved a hearing and maybe actively considered. I got the impression they almost clung to my proposal as it had come on a day when they were all grappling with the Vijay tragedy and the public aftermath.

Ciao,

Chari

Hi,

There are any number of scientific papers and proven studies available with me regarding SWDs with infiltration technology as a method of ensuring 0% runoff compared to open drains carrying water from point A to Lakes etc. Even Dr. T.V. Ramachandra of IISc confirms our technology is the inly sensible way forward.

Even as I write this Channel 9 on TV is full of news about yet another child having fallen into an open drain.Is that fact alone not enough to do away with such archaic systems as open drains?

Regarding RKM giving instructions, he did have an Assistant Engineer of BBMP in the same room when he was shooting instructions to the contractors, but the poor  Assistant Engineer was eloquently in his silence!

No, in fact when I asked RKM whether any rainfall pattern was considered when designing 2 metre deep pits at 100 metre intervals, he categorically said no such study had been conducted. He was more concerned about getting the job finished (I would suspect by hook or crook) than any scientific approach being followed.

In fact I was so agitated that I came back to my office and wrote off a two page appeal telling him what he was doing was a sure prescription for disaster. Have not received a word in reply till date.

I am now trying to contact the authorities to say that we can actually provide a 100% guaranteed solution for something like one third the budgetted amount of Rs. 6,600 crores. And we are even willing to invest in our own products and services to remodel the entire 835 Kms of SWDs before claiming a naiya paisa from BBMP. It could even be on a BOT basis, if BBMP wants proof of the infiltration technology being workable.

I wish Prajagals will suggest ways of getting one's voice heard in the corridors of power. Any suggestion?

I have checked with BBMP. No such DPR is ready / available as on date.

Remodelling SWD is really so simple and if done correctly, it can solve water logging problem for ever!

Mr. R.K.Mishra whom I met recently was actually giving instructions to two contractors for re-doing SWD on the 13.5 Km stretch from Kundanahalli to Adugodi on the old Airport Road. They were awarded contracts based on re-doing the traditional concrete channel system whereby water is taken from point "A" to point "B" - God only knows where that leads to(!) strengthening imperviousness throughout, with some pits at regular intervals allegedly meant for infiltration!!

I am afraid the Rs. 6000 crores earmarked for redoing 835 Kms of SWDs will be a total waste of tax payer's money.

 I will try calling the PA to chairman, BWSSB on Monday for a possible Praja appointment preferably on a Saturday. Sanjay I will try and join you in your trip to Cauvery Bhavan. Kindly Let me know your plan. 

PSA /Sanjay,

I had tried to meet the concerned official for information about Cauvery 4th stage about a year & a half ago & had ended up waiting almost 2 hours, though the official was in. When I asked again, I was told to come again another day. I then asked for an appointment with date /time & they simply stated that the saheb was busy for some days. So, I returned & had never gone back.

I suggest you get an appointment, on behalf of praja before you go since without appointment, they may not meet you.

 I have sent an e'mail to  chairman@bwssb.org to day requesting for a meeting date

Was curious to know if any meeting had occured. BWSSB website has more (recent?) information and has the chariman's contact listed. Information on ongoing works and tenders are also up. If a meeting is arranged, I have a couple of questions:

1) Why aren't lake waters purified and used for water supply? Related Q. - why aren't mini sewage treatment plants built at selected lakes especially where the distance to transport water for non-potable purposes is high? Collectively, the plants might end up costing less than building huge ones and paying for transporting higher distances. Developed countries often use large lakes (natural or man-made) and build treatment plants in their vicinity.

2) How are storm/rain water drains sustainable? Isn't it better to allow percolation at all locations than flow to a low point that may have blockages due to eoncroachment and lead to the annual flooding?

Edited: A newspaper article referred to BBMP remodelling SWDs so Q. 2 is misplaced here and should be redirected at BBMP (need to brush up on all of BBMPs areas/mandates). May be RKCHARI can try harder to explain long-term benefits (vis-a-vis low maintenance, sharing of costs by PPP? fancy graphics? etc.) to BBMP. BBMP should have short- medium- and long-term visions, trading off the cost of the annual flooding tamasha vs. higher initial cost.

2nd edit: Huh? Both questions are misplaced here. It seems that BBMP is in charge of lake maintenance. Really confused - what is the role of BWSSB? Just to build more phases at Cauvery? How about LDA? It seemed for a while that LDA was the nodal agency to coordinate lake-related issues. I give up.

No email address available on website, so I wrote to webmaster at bwssb.org

Rithesh, let us call them today to fix our first meeting, long due. Let us try reach two people. You call

Mr P.B. Ramamurthy, Chairman, Cauvery Bhavan, Phone 22945100

And I will call:

Mr P.B.Nayak, Project Director, Cauvery Bhavan, Phone 22945252

Let us touch base in the evening to check if got their time for this Saturday.