The Aviation Ministry has "requested" that the launch of BIA be delayed, most likely to May 29th.
This meeting highlights the triumph of politics over the need of the people. The new airport is a much required piece of infrastructure. The delay is being done for one reason alone. The connectivity to the new airport, a government responsibility, is not fully complete. The current elections cannot put us Bangaloreans to inconvenience, and highlight the failures of connectivity.
Immediately after the state elections, the ruling coalition is planning for new elections next year, and they would like maximum publicity and hoopla to highlight their "achievement".
On the positive side.....quoting the PTI news report, "We have given them (BIAL) various options including allowing aircraft less than 80-seaters to operate out of the existing airport," Civil Aviation Minister Praful Patel told reporters here.
I sincerely hope that BIAL looks at the offer positively.
--------------------------
Devesh Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshaga...
ಈ Forum topic ಅನ್ನು ಸ್ನೇಹಿತರಿಗೆ ಕಳಿಸಿ
HAL can be a boon
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
Decongest Bangalore
Common benefits !
Mr. Devesh,
Thank you very much for sharing the information on initiatives on Infrastructure by the industry chambers. Also I whole heartedly appreciate your forthcoming on the fact that each one of us works for our own benefits rather than others benefits. Industry chambers interests are no different.
Self-less souls are very few.
The point I was driving was, there are and there will be quite a few concerns that are common to industry, common citizens, politicians and others. One such concern is the increasing congestion on Bangalore roads. If we all can lend a hand, this problem is not at all impossible to take care off.
I have a one suggestion which I will be posting on the De-Congestion forum.
In any case, thank you very much for sharing your thoughts and information.
Regards,
Syed
Hai All all of us are very
Hai All
all of us are very much concerned about BIA launch delay and very rigtly
but we have to address one basic question
firstly, the name of BIA; AS I SUGGESTED EARLIER IT SHOULD BE NAMED AFTER KEMPEGOWDA AS
KEMPEGOWDA INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT
secondly for innaguration we should call one lady from Devanahalli who is said to be more than 100 years old; ther was a news item in Deccan Herald that there is a lady in Devanahalli ( ithink her name is Devamma) who is believed to be 125 years old. IT IS VERY APT THAT SHE INNAGURATES THE AIRPORT.
thirdly, as I suggested earlier, the road from BIA to the city upto Hebbal Flyover should not be given to land sharks but the greenery on either side of it should be maintained all along. ( IF NECESSARY A TRIP TO SINGAPORE BY THE POWERS TO BE WHICH IMPLEMENT THIS MAY BE ARRANGED)
Srinath Heragu
[quote] ( IF NECESSARY A
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
Decongestion
This is a subject that benefits all citizens of Bangalore. I want to have seminar on this subject. If Praja members know any senior transportation gurus, please introduce me.
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
ATC
Narayan
Don't worry about ATC safety. There are no squabbles. There is an article on my blog about the real capacity of BIA. There is an airspace map of Bangalore. Responsibilities are clearly divided.
Very frankly, there was only one time I got seriously concerned. There was a rumour floating around Bangalore, that BIAL wanted to pressure AAI to open the airport using HAL ATC. I have never been able to confirm it, but if it was true, it would have been highly irresponsible.
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
Connecting flights
I agree with you on the transfer. I spoke to the airlines, they are not in favour of the sub-80 seater proposal.
In any case, the proposal would be an "additional" permission, i.e. not segregating the flights. But discussions are on-going, and let us see.
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
NHAI and Devanahalli road
Arguably the only agency that has worked on the conneectivity issue to BIA since the begining is the NHAI..else we would not even have a decent road as we have now!
This effort might not be related to BIA at all however the timing was right!
Further plans are being drawn out for a elevated road from Hebbal to Yelahanka and they want the change to the allignment of high speed train line for this elevated road..
So again, why only till yelahanka? Isnt our target Devanahalli? Isnt this like a response to what Kheny said at the Bangalore Mirror meeting 'we develop infrastructure to cater to our fathers times and not for the furture'
TATA has announced the tallest residential building coming up in the Devanahalli area and so there are other big palns of lot of developements planned in that region. But we plan to drop people off the tolled elevated road at yelahanka itself?
But building this elevated road is a very expensive solution to a simple problem of design that NHAI needs to address..
1. This is the design of entry and exit ramps at all intersections on the current road. This is needed at all places starting from Kodihalli/Sahakarnagar junctions till Devanahalli..how long will we manage with humps and signals on high ways to slow people down?
2.Pedestrian crossing at regular intervals
3.Make this a baricaded highway so that we dont have stray cows taking a rest room break in the middle of the road stop a managing director in a hurry to catch a flight
4.Remove humps and signals on this road
5.Allow fast train on the median
Answers Praja members should obtain from BIAL
I have posted a list of questions that Praja members should get answers from BIAL. Please read my article at http://aviation.deveshaga...
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
Unready ATC to delay BIA even further ???
There might be more delays in store for BIA. A little bird told me that the air traffic control at BIA is "just not ready". AAI is putting in maximum efforts, but do not be surprised if BIA launch gets delayed further in to June.
Apparently, the proposal that HAL ATC, which is experienced, do the air traffic control for BIA, was re-examined, but thankfully saner heads prevailed. If this HAL-BIA ATC ever comes true, I am abandoning flying out of Bangalore, I value my life.
On a more serious note, this situation is getting out of hand. Various operators including agents, are loosing staff to BIA. Obviously no one wants to work in a closing airport. New staff are casual and now things are beginning to approach a "serious issue" level.
GoI HAS to take a decision one way or the other, and proceed with it. In either case, BIA must open on May 29th, or preferable even earlier.
Its time to get the show on the road.
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
HAL ATC for BIAL? why not?
A little birdy told me, that HAL ATC controllers are joining AAI in BIAL...and HAL is extremly short staffed now! So we are running with a skeleton ATC tower right now!!
So pleease for god's own sake lets move to that airport! I do get a little scared while flying...its not the pilots its the ATCs!
But to get some ideas clear in my head - why does Approach COntrol have to be on site? Why would HAL not do the job?
You see for example landing at Heathrow: First you are guide through one of the stacks (bovingdon, lambourne or biggin hill) all located away from the airport, then the Heathrow Approach Control based in Swanwick, Hampshire, aligns you to the runway - and finally - Tower at Heathrow clears you for landing. So if BIAL has the tower, clearance delivery and ground control in order, technically HAL doing appraoch control is ok?
Anyway. Approach control is not located in the tower, its in a room with no view of the sky! so why should it matter if it is at the airport or not?
Unless ofcourse BIAL's ground control and tower control arent ready - in which case it might not be that straight forward!
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
Answers from HAL Airport !
Mr Devesh,
I have just finished sending an email to BIAL asking answers for those questions.
While we wait for the answers from BIAl to your simple questions, do we have the answers to these questions if we replace BIAL with HAL?
Basically what would be the answers to these questions currently for HAL airport except for the last question. Instead of projections, yearly growth from 1990 will tell the story.
Time for AAI and MoCA to come Clean !
Going by Mr. Devesh's input I will not be surprised for another round of postponment of BIAL start. I am yet to see a blog or post which has asked or question the role played by AAI in this whole saga of BIAL. Day in and day out we see blogs, comments, suggestions and solution doling out every day on the construction, capacity, runways, connectivity, BAIL's refusal to part with their share of profits etc.
But yet to see a blog / post either doling out a true picture of AAI's efforts in ATC operation at BIAL or true current status on ATC. It is time AAI and MoCA comes clean on this. Basically tell people of Bangaluru the reality of ATC readiness. If for reasons (either of BIA's bungling or AAI's own bureacratic letharginess) if it requires time, this is the time to tell the truth. Forthcoming with the revised schedule for completing the ATC readiness will not harm BIAL. In corporate and private commercial world, project schedule over-runs are not uncommon. Atleast people would not be disappointed.
I urge City-Connect and others that it is time they start pulling the strings of AAI for realistic schedule and this time a definite completion.
These things should have been the causes for PILs.
I urge the Praja community to wake up and stop this utter sheer political games being played by politicians and their funding partners.
Count me in for PIL.
Syed
How come Bangalore suffers all the time
I am puzzled to see that Bangalore international airport launch is delayed again.
When they delayed first time it was said that ATC was not ready and using HAL ATC is risky. But how come the RGIA at Hyderabad clearead even they also have the problem with ATC and the old Begumpet ATC is sill controlling the air traffic there. I am eager to see the details seeked from RTI on the AAI's role in BIAL and RGIA
http://www.dnaindia.com/r...
DGCA okays BIAL
From the TOI
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/DGCA_clears_hurdles_for_BIA_takeoff/articleshow/3016886.cms
Srivathsa
Drive safe. It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.
well b'lore is planned
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
AAI is part of BIAL
Syed Bhai
To start with, we are being fooled in to separating AAI (Govt. of India), Govt. of Karnataka, and BIAL. AAI and KSIIDC are part of BIAL. How do you separate Mukesh Ambani from Reliance ? But yet, we are being cleverly conned in to doing it everyday for BIAL.
We are willing to rip HAL to shreds for the poor performance of the AAI owned and run terminal, of which HAL has zero participation in, but we are not willing to question BIAL for delays caused by their own shareholders and partners ?!?!?!
The first delay at BIA is because of both AAI and BIAL. BIAL wanted to project to Bangalore and the world that they could build an airport in 33 months. You cannot defy the laws of physics, and they came up short. The buildings to house the entire ATC, Navigation, and Communications systems and their ancillary equipment was not ready in time.
Hence the first delay.
The second was primarily driven by politics, but also in part by non-readiness on the part of AAI. In the middle of the election the Govt. is unable to hold a celebration, and the needs of Bangalore are subservient to the needs of politics. Adding some masala in to this political sambar, is a lack of readiness of the newly hired controllers.
There is a reason why ATC is considered one of the most stressful jobs in the world. There is no reset button in this game. One mistake, and many die. Confidence and skill comes only with experience, and that is completely missing at BIA ATC. At this point, nothing can be done.
The best option is to do a complete stress test on BIA and hope they do not fail.
Many airlines and others had proposed that BIA should be phased in gradually. i.e. have all international flights for 1 year. Work out the kinks, let the ATC get the experience, and only then put the load of domestic flights.
I can only assume the financial pressures forced BIAL to disagree.
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
Begumpet ATC for RGIA
This report only goes to highlight how unconcerned private airport promoters are, to passenger safety, in pursuit of the almighty rupee/dollar/euro, whatever.
You can see in the report the concerns expressed by the pilots, and please remember, more is left unsaid, than said.
In case of Hyderbad, both Begumpet and RGIA controllers are AAI controllers, and Hyderabad traffic is about half that of Bangalore. So separation between aircraft can be increased and therefore "remote control" is possible.
BIA is already peaked at 30 flights per hour, which is the maximum permitted by DGCA, and a similar remote control is certainly not advisable. Further, there is a congested airspace due to proximity of Yelahanka. Check my story http://aviation.deveshaga....
And to top it off, look at the risk-reward profile for HAL. If all goes well, the credit is to BIA. Any delays, and BIAL will conveniently blame HAL. So stay out of it.
In any case its just another 20 days. The truth will emerge.
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
Is BIA well planned ?
Narayan
Check out the airspace may in my article http://aviation.deveshaga.... Read it in detail.
There is no way to consider BIA airspace well planned. In fact, this is going to be a MAJOR impediment.
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
A major problem is brewing at HAL airport
Friends, there is a brewing crisis HAL, and I have written an article on this issue.
Please read http://aviation.deveshaga... and kindly post your comments.
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
Role of AAI and ATC readiness !
Devesh sab,
Hum Bawafa thae Isley Nazron se girgayey, Unhen talassh thee kisi Bewafa Ki
(We were faithful and hence fallen from the grace, they needed an unfaithful)
I was expecting this line of answer. First of all myself and few others are very clear that AAI is part of the BIAL. That is my whole point of discussion.
Devesh, I bet here on Paraja no body would like to see compromises made on safety issues in all aspects of Airport Operations. No body is forcing to start the BIAL airport with incomplete infrastructure. As yourself, everybody loves their lives and their loved one's.
Our anguish and frustration is not because of delays in start date, but in knowing what is that is more needed to be done to say BAIL is ready for operation. Myself and Bangaloreans like you would not mind waiting for few more months or a year so that all the pending work can be completed without cutting corners in areas that ensures the safety of passengers, fliights, crew members, workers and management personnel.
Don't you think we need an honest answer from DGCA/MoCA who is the licensing authority for issuing operational license to say what is more needed instead of hiding behind HAL, connectivity, court directions etc.
If you and others believe with a conviction that project cost and schedule has overrun, PIL should have been filed to know the truth. Does the current PIL has included this in the scope?
My whole line of questioning is about AAI's role, attitude and response. I am yet to see finger pointed at AAI's laid back strategy. Otherwise how could one explain AAI start making noises about insufficient space, personnel, equipment and whole lot of other things that they may need for running ATC at BIAL in March 2008.
By questioning AAI, I am also questioning BIAL and public interests like NGO's and myself.
Count me in if there are any plan for PIL to know the exact truth and put some judicial pressure for completion of the pending works.
My larger interest is not much in Airport, but in the improvements of roads and services that leads to Airport. I am looking at secondary benefits of the connectivity. Atleast in the name of Airports some roads will get attention and some congestion woes get mitigated. This is where the Bangalore Lives. Its only 10% who uses the airports and a less than 1% benefits from Businesses related with Airport in particular. I am one among the 90% and hence my interests in good roads and transport services.
Regards,
Syed
W.r.t ATC at HAL (Again)
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
Bangalore Airspace
Hi Narayan
Never took your comments as a degredation. As you will have seen from my posts, I am a very open and brutally blunt person, sometimes to the point of abrasive and arrogant, but I always speak the truth and be WYSIWYG.
Considering the limitations and needs, the airspace planning is done pretty well actually. To get a true picture you should see the map in large size http://bp2.blogger.com/_u....
Also do keep in mind BIA has a 30nm arc of control, that is 60km. So if you see the VOD (Danger area) on the right of the map, that is Kolar. Beyond that is Chennai Control and Mangalore Control (the equivalent of US Centre) for high level control.
YEL and HAL have differing requirements, and different abilities. YEL is a training base and therefore they need Tower and Approach/Departure control, but their radar systems are not sophisticated like BIA or HAL. The IAF is fighting tooth and nail to prevent AAI from taking over their ATC. They know that if AAI gets its way, their establishment is finished, because AAI earns revenues from BIA ops not IAF ops and therefore IAF flights will be pushed all the way to the back of the queue.
In case of HAL, they have sophisticated equipment, and there is a major international airway called N574 or P574 (I forget the exact airway), that goes right over BBG VOR (located at HAL). This airway stretches all the way from Middle East to Indonesia, so that is why HAL has control all the way to FL460 (46,000ft), for high level area control as well as tower and approach control. Lets not forget, VIP flights will continue from HAL, and VIP flights are accorded special handling.
Yes, while both HAL and AAI are owned by Government of India, you can see the level of tension between them, in the way AAI presented its case in court against HAL, and stood very quietly and idly by, along side BIAL while they just went on defaming HAL.
Within the ATC community there is intensely close bonding. Iyer of HAL was called, very frquently, to train AAI controllers. In fact he was consulted extensively to get BIA ATC going, but even he would not enter in to the minefield called BIA ATC. It is a quagmire that is going to create major problems. It is a no win but big loose situation.
Lets put the pressure on BIA and lets see how they perform. 18 months from now, will be the acid test of my claims.
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
Mr. Praful Patel's Web Site
Syed Bhai, I am in full concurrence with you.
The answers to your concerns should come from our Honourable Minister for Civil Aviation Shri Praful Patel. His web site is http://164.100.24.167:808....
His e-mail address as shown is praful@sansad.nic.in.
BIAL is claiming in court that it is a "private" party and therefore exempt from RTI. There is a court case going on alleging improper and non-transparent tendering by BIAL.
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
hal atc for bial
hi folks,
HAL atc has an airspace that is unlimited not because of one international route,P573 that passes over bangalore, but because of the test flying activity that takes place. Fighters like MIGs, LCA and recently the HAWK ,all flying well above 46,000 feet.
Mr, Devesh with all due respect to your knowledge, in of your comments in your aviation blog, you acknowledged the efficiency of the HAL Controllers. But, you also mentioned that Mr.Iyer has recently retired and it has affected the operations and there are major delays during peak hours. The truth is the operations are continuing as well as earlier. My information says that Mr.Iyer has never worked during the maximum peak hours that is., between 1600hrs to 2400hrs. Air Traffic control is not a single persons domain, it is well coordinated team effort between all the personnel involved in ATC. My information says that the existing team is the one that always worked during the peak hours and they are continuing to do so, there is absolutely no major delays to arrivals/departures at HAL airport.
Of course they have severe shortage of Radar controllers, just 10 of them. I also heard that about 4 radar controllers have joined BIAL, not for ATC but, ground related jobs.
I am happy that atleast one person is able to understand HAL atc and their contribution to Bangalore and its safety in the skies.
regarding BIAL information says that the ATC is still not ready and it might be further delayed beyond May 29.
Regarding retaining HAL airport,May 12 meeting will decide, the fate of both the Airports.
Yuvaraj65
HAL ATC and N563 Airway
Hi Yuvraj
Thanks for the clarification.
I looked up my Jeppesen Charts. The airway is N563. Starts from near Dubai and traverses India from south of Goa over Bangalore, to south of Chennai, all the way to Indonesia over Medan, and then terminates just SW of Kuala Lumpur. P574 is similar but just north of Bangalore (line from Belgaum to Chennai) and just south of B466E and B466W/N561.
For sure, many people in India do not realise how much air traffic traverses India over the night, and the revenue that brings in.
I fully understand appreciate the team effort of any ATC, and my comments reflect that understanding. Iyer used to control during the 8:30 - 10am slot which was peak in terms of departures and landing. Not that WingCo Srini and team are incapable, but Iyer's abilities are missed.
I have a new article on recent aviation policy changes http://aviation.deveshaga.... Do check it out.
I know that BIAL ATC is not ready. Little birds are telling me that the new controllers there are very tentative and hesitant. For sure they cannot handle 30 flights an hours.
If BIAL opens quickly, we can still get these ATC trained during the lean summer time table. For sure October onwards will put full load. Only then we will find the true capacities of BIAL.
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
Govt Decides only one airport
Check this link
http://www.ibnlive.com/news/govt-decides-says-just-one-airport-in-bangalore/65128-3.html
Govt decided on shutting down HAL - and opening BIAL end of May. '08
HAL airport to close commercially
hi everybody,
Inspite of so much efforts of the citizens of Bangalore, HAL airport is to shut down commercial operations.
But, I forsee problems for BIAL from DAY ONE vis-a-vis ATC.
BIAL has built a fantastic and awesome Terminal building which can definitely accomodate much more than the 12 million pax per year. What they are still forgetting or failed to comprehend is that this should be complemented by a efficient ATC, safe procedures for arrival departures vis-a vis Yelahanka AFB.
The proximity of Yelahanka AFB is definitely going to affect the operations at BIAL.
Aircraft on final approach for BIAL are certain to get a lot of warnings about proximity traffic on their Traffic collision Avoidance Systems (TCAS), varying from traffic alerts, Traffic threats to Resolution advisory (TA), because of Yelahanka circuit flying aircraft.
Let the BIAL airport open operations, and chaos from day one!!!
Regards,
Yuvaraj
ATC at BIAL
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
My on the spot assessment of BIAL's "fantastic" terminal
Yuvaraj
Please see http://bangalore.praja.in.... I have a basic terminal comparison of capacity.
Sure BIA terminal is better than HAL, but anyone who calls BIAL terminal, or the airport, "world class", is in a fantsy world, or has not stepped beyond the boundaries of India. Even RGIA is infinitely superior.
But you are absolutely right, start BIAL and let us sit back and watch the fun.
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
Airspace around BIAL
Narayan
Check my article http://aviation.deveshaga.... It details the technical aspects of the airspace, approach, and departure around BIA.
During my visit to BIAL today, I met BIAL people, and they informed me that the 2nd runway is doubtful. IAF is putting lot of pressure to ensure safe operations. There is significant possibility that the 2nd runway, even if approved, will not operate at "full independent" capacity.
So assuming a capacity of 15 million per runway, and if the second runway at BIAL is 50%, that means 22.5 million and that is it.
After that what ? Does Bangalore shut down ?
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
About capacity, I am sure if
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
HIAL...
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
Bial ATC by HAL
hi everybody,
As Devesh says ' let BIAL start and we will watch the fun', aptly told, but is such a situation required? BIAL seems to be very stubborn and are still not realising the effects of full traffic on day one.
They still dont seem to realise that AAI ATC at BIAL is still not ready and may not be ready at all!!!!
Little birdie tells me that some high ranking officials from AAI visited HAL to request HAL ATC to help them kiick start the operations at BIAL. Very Funny!!! They come asking the very organisation whose airport they are shutting down, to help them to open the BIAL airport, whose management is insisting that !!! What do you call this???
It is very sad day to Bangaloreans that an airport, inspite of its inadequacy, has continued to accomodate the aspirations of Bangalore, and contributed very much in the development of this city and made Bangalore what t is today, is finally shutting down.
But, mark my words!! HAL airport will again become commercially operation very soon.
WAIT AND WATCH!!!!!
Regards,
Yuvaraj65
Yuvaraj...
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
Narayan.......
Hi Narayan
I have not said HAL is a disaster waiting to happen. I have highlighted issues on GROUND HANDLING like terminal to aircrraft v/v buses, baggage handling, tractors, etc. I have never cast an aspertion on the air safety at HAL and I know for a fact, that unlike BIAL which was willing to endanger Bangaloreans by having a split ATC, HAL ATC is far more responsible. It would much rather slow down the traffic that give in to the demands of airlines. I appreciate being quoted correctly.
With regards to HAL ATC handling the airspace over Bangalore, there are specific responsibilities given to various High Level, TRACONs and Towers at BIA, YEL, HAL, and Chennai. Above a certain altitude, BIA will hand over to Chennai, or Mangalore, or HAL as the case may be. Each ATC including HAL will continue to handle ALL traffic within its airspace responsibility.
I am in agreement with HAL ATC staying out of BIAL airspace. It will cause confusion and it is most definitely not in the interest of air safety.
Is BIA is now saying that its ATC is incapable ? i.e. the airport is not ready ?
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
Devesh...
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
Life never shutdowns.......
Devesh Sab,
I am sure everybody would agree that Bangalore would never shutdowns. Whether BIAL runs smooth or not life in B'lore would continue.
For us as human beings, certain times it would appear as though every door has been closed on us. Otherwise how would one explain the suicides attempts made by desperate people. Life conitinues, it never shutdowns. We may not agree but this is the reality.
Like wise, BIAL might not mitigate the air travel problems in B'lore. But BIAL is not the end of the roads for you and other Bangaloreans. I am sure you would still continue flying from BIAL or any other airport (RGIA, Chennai etc) according to your needs and circumstances.
Let's be optimistic. Even if BIAL fails, to me it will open other avenues. May be private airport in competition. May be cheaper/world class road transport.
Let's continue on our journey that we think would help ourselves first anf then others.
"ZINDAGI MEIN AUR BHI GHAM HAIN IS AIRPORT KE SIWA"
Regards,
Syed
RTI Application for Traffic Data from HAL airport !
A RTI apllication has been filed with AAI, Bangalore to ascertain the traffic data for HAL airport from past years, growth and more importantly revenue it earned during this period. As everybody knows, AAI operates and maintains the HAL airport.
Mind it, the revenue has to match the growth that is being flashed everywhere. Otherwise you know what these growth figures are?
So one more attempt to know the truth.
Regards,
Syed
Elobrate and indepth detailed report on BIAL
Devesh,
Thank you very much for the detail report you have posted on your blog.
Guys, it is quite an elobrate and indepth detailed report on BIAL. Hope it will start ringing bells for all those powers that matters.
http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com/2008/05/bial-airport-visit-report.html
Regards,
Syed
RGIA Leaking
Rolling on the floor laughing my head off. :) :) :)))))
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
BIAL Visit Report
Hi Syed
Thanks for the posting the update. I have added some pictures. My Vista keeps crashing when I preview any picture, so I had to do it delicately, and it took some time.
The report did take me about 4 hours to prepare. It was an effort, but worth it. I do hope it presents a balanced and more importantly an honest and independent assessment.
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Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
Traffic Data for HAL
Syed Bhai
Why trouble yourself. Aap maango aur aap ko milega. The traffic data posted in my blogs are from AAI data. The 2007-8 data is accurate till Jan 2008.
See the article http://aviation.deveshaga.... The graph of Bangalore data has the numbers below it.
Revenue is very easy to calculate. Rs.70 per departing passenger. Or Rs. 35 for all passengers. The balance Rs 130 goes to CISF for security operations. Rs. 25 goes to FinMin as Service Tax. Rs. 225 in total PSF.
AAI also gets a percentage of HAL ATC revenue for providing the Enroute Navigation and ILS equipment.
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
devesh@deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
Passions
I fully agree with you. But I am a helpless romantic passionate when it comes to Bangalore. :))
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
Radar-less BIAL faces dearth of ATCs
A story in The Indian Express explaining the ATC situation in BIA and HAL.
http://www.newindpress.co...
The Chinese have a saying ..... "May you live in interesting times"..... this sure is an interesting situation.
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
Bangalore's Airspace Management !
Mr. Devesh,
Your posts and blogs made me go thru your blogs and specially your air traffic anaysis. Along with I started reading about airspace management. For my curiosity, where does the TRACON and ARTCC are physically located that takes care of B'lore's air traffic?
Syed
BIAL is a "Public Authority"...
As per a news item in The Hindu, http://www.hindu.com/2008/05/15/stories/2008051559540300.htm
"In a landmark judgment with far-reaching consequences on projects taken up under the Public-Private Partnership model, the State Information Commission ruled on Wednesday that Bangalore International Airport Ltd. (BIAL) is a “public authority”. The Commission has directed BIAL to appoint Public Information Officers and publicise them for the benefit of citizens."
So now we have weapons to question BIAL ?
Hai narayan82 you have very
Hai narayan82
you have very rightly said that a trip to Singapore by these people (powers that be) will not help, as they are the land sharks
as you suggested why we do not file a PIL from praja; praja as a body can be used to file a PIL or some of us individually as praja members.
have you given a thought to my other suggestions on naming of BIA nd innaguration of BIA.
Srinath Heragu
Bangalore Airspace TRACon and ARTCC
Hi Syed
I remember typing a reply to you, but now I do not see the post, so apologies in advance if this become a duplicate post.
TRACon or Terminal Radar Approach Control is normally located at or near the airport it services. These are typically referenced as XXX Departure or XXX Approach in US, and XXX Radar in India. In almost all airports in India they are located in the same ATC tower, but normally a floor or two below the Tower, since TRACon does not need external visibility.
High Level or Area Controllers can be housed anywhere. In the US they are called XXX Center and in India they are called Control.
In South India we have Hyderabad Control, Mangalore Control, Trivandrum Control, and Chennai Control. Bangalore Control is housed within HAL at the same site at Bangalore Radar. Normally a control will have about 150 nm arc of control. Some less some more. Beyond that Radar does not work, so you use HF radio instead of VHF. So you also have Chennai Radio, Kolkata Radio, Mumbai Radio for long distance over-the-sea ATC. I do not think there is a Mangalore radio (they hand over to Mumbai radio).
Just as an example the TG flight from BLR-BKK, used to take off from Bangalore, and depending on inbound traffic, used to handed off to Chennai Control around FL120~FL200. Chennai Control used to hand off to Chennai Radio, who handed off to Port Blair Radar, who handed off to Yangon Radio and then on the Bangkok.
For ATC operations, you need to think 3 dimensions, so the responsible area is more like a cylinder. Above or below a certain altitude coupled or beyond/within a certain distance the control responsibility shifts. For example the BIA map shows BIA ATC having a control arc of 30 nm, and from GND to FL120. So once a plane goes beyond 30 nm from BIA or crosses FL120 then BIA will hand it off.
Till now HAL was responsible till FL200. BIA has been given 120 only becuase it does not have ATCs. So the load is being passed on to Chennai. :))
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD