Been a while since I posted anything - so here goes. This is a small story of how we in one apartment complex have gotten our khatas without paying any bribe.
For good reasons, I will not disclose the name of our apartment. Some of you know where I live and request you not to disclose it inadvertently. It will cause needless problems.
The apartment complex where I live has 5 apartments with a total of about 750 houses. This was under the erstwhile CMC and came recently under the BBMP. Some of us had the CMC Khatas (Form 3?) but most did not. To cut a long story short, a deal was struck by the builder with the BBMP that it would issue khatas for a "service fee" of Rs. 8000.
My wife is the president of our association and she was not part of this meeting where this deal was struck. She was not at all happy that we the educated were encouraging such blatant corruption. At our AGM she announced that this was the deal and that those who wished to pursue it could do so by contacting the concerned BBMP officers. She nor the association would not have anything to do with it. (She announced it because otherwise on a later day there would have been someone or other blaming her for not giving complete information and then leaving the choice to the person).
Some 40 of us decided that we would not pay any bribe and we would get our khatas the proper way. So we collected all the documents and my wife and a few others coordinated getting encumbrance certificates, notarisation, etc.
Some of the other apartments went ahead with the other pland and a few got their khatas. At this point we went to the BBMP office and the man took our applications without any protest. We assumed that we would get phone calls a few days later for "service fees". A few follow ups later we found out that calculations were ready and the demand note was also ready. We got drafts made and submitted them. And we have been told that the khatas will be dispatched one of these days.
And now more people are applying the normal route in our block.
This is of course a simplified version and there were a few twists and turns.
a. We found out the day after we submitted our applications that someone had written to the Lok Ayukta complaining about the whole scheme. The LA on it's part had warned the concerned BBMP officers. So maybe that is why the sailing was smooth.
b. We also knew that once one khata was issued, the BBMP could not play any tricks with us. Did we free ride? Yes - to some extent. But we did try to convince the others not to pay and that we could get the khatas without paying anything by just being a bit patient.
c. Some of the other apartments were sore that we free rode. To them - bad luck. You had the option to at least try to reduce corruption, but you chose to take the easy way out.
Srivathsa
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Congrats
Congrats, now you have atleast 40 famimlies who will do the right thing next time. And the rest who may give it a shot the right way next time having seen success. So its a good win for making the system work
Hi I suspect its the letter
Hi
I suspect its the letter to the Lok Ayukta which did the trick. Though on occasion I have had pleasant experiences with the BBMP paying property tax. I think the point is most of us assume it wont go smoothly unless we bribe - and I guess that is the case in many places - so we are pleasently surprised when it actually works out properly.
Its a sad state of affairs, though, if the fact that things went through without a bribe is remarkable. My aunt had an experience with the Malleswaram BBMP where the officer told her that `even an ant doesn't move in the BBMP office without money being exchanged !'
Ramesh
A very sad state of affairs
Yes it is a very sad state of affairs. And it has reached this state in no small measure due to our complicity.
My wife had earlier applied for a khata transfer for her grandfather's property to his kin (after his death). The BBMP tried its best to extract money. She applied and then just waited with a few follow ups and visits. After some time they realized they are not going to get a single paisa from this lady and they (after some dodging) gave her the khata.
The amusing thing was that when she had to pay the khata transfer fee she was told it was Rs.150. So she paid Rs.150. She saw that the receipt was for Rs.125 and she just made a remark about it. Just as she finished collecting her khata someone came rushing after her and returned the Rs.25 change. I think they did not want her back in that office ever again :).
Srivathsa
Drive safe. It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.
Good going
Nice to hear this. Hope there are more such examples. I had also been quite severe at the Indiranagar sub-registrar's office many years ago & had managed to get a khata transfer without much pain.
The real problem is that we, the consumers tend to accept that nothing will move unless we pay up. This is the root cause for staff at all sub-registrar offices being so corrupt & demanding.
Another problem is that many tend to 'gerry-mander' & try to get away without proper papers or without following proper procedures. There are also many cases of foul play & such instances embolden them to try to extract bribes from one & all.
I have used Lokayukta to get my khata
Hi,
I just wanted to share my experience on getting khata. Initially I had a tough time to get khata transfer application form from BBMP. After running around BBMP offices couple of times, I got form. (attender collected 10 Rs extra for form)
After submitting form, I requested them (only attender) to get Khata with reasonable price and I know lokayukta official (in fact i know also ). After 2 months, I visited again and they said approval has come & asked me to pay fee in DD. Within one week of paying DD, I got my khata without paying single rupee. Lokayukta office name did trick. Though I knew official from lokayukta office, I didnt inform them, just using thier name did the trick
I made 5 visits to get my khata (all on saturdays..)
1. paying FY 09-10 Tax & got Khata application form
2. Submitting Khata app form
3. Checking status after two months (I was told to get DD )
4. Submitted DD
5. Collected khata
Our builder has got OC & khata bifurcated. With all these, going rate for kahat transfer is 5000 Rs.
Rgds
Awesome job, great report
Srivathsa, rated this post 5 stars. Ever since you had mentioned this story to me, I have been a bit shocked, mostly around a specific detail you mentioned but have not written here.
About the free ride allegation, as you say, it is their bad luck.
There perhaps is a way of pricing these "service fees". "Bribe amount" to "Time I will need to spend" ratio could determine our (middle class) choices when it comes to corruption. In this case - Rs 8000 vs 8-10 hours worth of work (aka headache), assuming middle class families make 3000 Rs a day (75000 Rs a month with 25 working days - just a simplification), amount looks a bit high. But value of asset in question (apartment worth several lakhs) tilts the balance.
Anyway. leaving the numbers etc aside, if you came across some very helpful officers at BBMP, would probably be good to appreciate them by name.
Not just the 8-10 hours
Just the thought of having to make repeated trips to a most customer unfriendly place puts off people. You are treated as some sort of unwanted person made to run around, half information is given, "naale banni", etc. The whole idea is to make the experience so dreadful that Rs.8000 seems like a god send. And most of us are willing to spend that sort of money given as you said it is at most 4-5 days of income and that too for your most prized possession.
For all our dadagiri on the roads (honking at others, jumping lights, etc) in the anonymity of our cars, Indians are not assertive when it comes to their rights in a govt. office. We love the easy way out and it is always on offer.
As Mark Twain said - "We have the best government money can buy".
I was a bit shocked too, but still don't want to put that piece of info. That is when I lost all hope about BBMP.
(The Whitefield office was a bit of an exception. When one man who had come to get his apt. registered offered money to one of the boys there, he refused saying that both would land in trouble!).
Srivathsa
Drive safe. It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.
Got my khata finally
Finally got my khata today. The first 28 applications have their khatas in their names. They need to go to the BBMP office and collect it. The rest will get it in due course.
No money was paid to anyone. My wife took a box of sweets and gave it to the case worker (who has been very helpful) to distribute in the office.
Srivathsa
Drive safe. It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.
proceedure for khatha
I would like to know if khatha is being given to all lands coming under BBMP .
list of required documents to submit and what form to submit to get the khatha,
How is thw amount calculated for a particular property .
if anyone gives in detail it would be of help to people who are not knowledgable in these issues.
thanks.
Katha application process
Hi,
I have an ancestors property under my father's name. As per my father's will, the property shall be divided between my sister and me.
We have approached to the Ward Officer of the respective property to obtain the Katha in our names by spliting the existing Katha number between the two with all the documents required to do so.
We have visted to him with all the documents and also submitted the application as well. But the officer is delaying the process telling things which we don't understand. But later he is insisting us to pay 30000 Rs to complete the process telling there is lot of flaw in the documents provided by us.
We are not sure whether after paying the amount, we will get our katha in time. Could you please suggest is there any other means to obtain our Katha documents by avoiding ward officer.
Please suggest, as me and my sister are working for a private company where we will be travelling most of the times on official visits.
Regards
Tanav
Don't pay
These are all their tricks to scare you to get money.
a. Ask him what problems there in your documents. To please list them out so that you can correct them. Ask him to give reasons for non-issuance of khata in writing. Tell them that you will file an RTI if he cannot give it in writing.
b. File an RTI if needed. Ask them questions - what is the current status? Whose approval is pending? What are the observations in your khata file? What is the prescribed timeline for issuing khatas? Given that this is a "death case" they have to put it up on their notice board for 30 days to receive objections. Put questions which they cannot dodge.
Here is the list of documents from our experience.
a. Copy of Khata certificate or extract as it stands. Is this Khata in your father's name? If the khata is not in your father's name it will involve a bit more information before we can tell you what to do.
b. Notarized copy of sale deed.
c. Notarized copy of will.
d. No objection on Rs.20/- stamp paper from all of you (you, your sister and mother). 3 stamp papers for each of you. Essentially it should state that each of you has no objection to this khata being transferred to the others.
e. Sketch of the location in which the property is (roads, immediate neighbours)
f. Sanctioned plan if available.
g. Latest tax paid receipt.
h. Any form of identification where your father's name is mentioned.
Speak to the case worker (not the ward officer) and above him the revenue inspector. If you face problems go the ARO and speak to him. Do NOT indicate that you have the slightest intention of paying even the smallest sum of money as bribe/service fee. There is no need to pay.
I assume you are not in a tearing hurry to get this done and that the property is in good legal standing. Just show patience and visit the place once in a month. Once they find out that you will not pay your khata will come out.
Srivathsa
Drive safe. It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.
Khata Transfer
Agree with Srivathsa - absolutely right.
You must have all the relevant documents. If any are missing or lost, file an application for getting duplicate/s - procedures are in place even for such eventualities.
You are facing problems because some of those people that do not have all the necessary documents are willing to pay bribes instead of trying to obtain duplicates - this makes it difficult for those that have everything in order too, with ward officers & the like telling one & all that their "papers are not in order".
How to make khata using sales deed
Dear Friends ,
Scenario:- My father Property at Orissa ,Khurda dist.
Long time back at time of my grandfather buy one land. After that not apply for khata/final documents
Only have sales deed in the year 1960 .
Now we have only that sales deed/sales agreement. That land till now with our ownership.
Question is that how to prepare my final khata using that sales deed.
So kindly give me guide line what is the procedure for the converting my name .
Thanks & Regards
Sanjay Mahapatra