Sanity Check: Bangalore international airport rail link

It looks like our govt is bent upon keeping its promise since it announced HSR to BIA when it came to power. But most of my friends here are right - its not a viable option. I am sure Rs.5700 Crores can be spent on better infrastructural needs and instead connect Metro line in to BIA. BIA had already made plans for an underground station which should work well. I have not seen an exclusive train to the Airport alone in my experience but for one in Cleveland Ohio which is so under used and it connects only Downtown Cleveland which is why its totally unpopular. Most of the cities world wide have metro rail connecting the airport which spreads all across the city which means nobody has to travel to CBD and then check-in and get into this special train. Instead air travelers can take the metro all the way from their homes to the airport. I agree that it may take a little longer than an exclusive fast train but its a hassle free ride and if we add longterm lower cost parking at the metro terminals then they can leave their cars or vehicles in the parking lots and take the train to the airport. Less Pollution and more comfort. Can we talk to the govt and persuade them in not blowing up money on a white elephant that may not be profitable in the long run?

I read the HSRL RFQ posted on the website in detail. I found the rolling stock specifications is not too different to the 'Namma' metro. CCTV's, live route info, Air conditioned cars are all similar to the metro. The metro itself can be slightly modified to meet the trailer cars requirements specified in the RFQ. There needs to more transparency in the need for the HSRL when the metro itself can be extended. For the differentiation factor from the 'Namma' metro, have a different name...just as 'Vajra' and 'Vayu Vajra'.

Can the HSRL be linked to the Cargo unit at BIAL? So maybe we have a basement, in the CAT, where agents can book Cargo, and then it can transported in a seperate coach which is unloaded at the BIAL terminus. Saves more trucks from the road to BIAL! Timnings can vary so the trucks and other delivery vans can enter the CAT during late nights or early mornings to book the cargo. Maybe Blue dart can open a city terminal too at the CAT.

The HSRL will provide check in facilities at CAT - MG Rd and Hebbal. I suggested the partition in the train, so the daily communters and the checked in passengers do not get mixed up. Hence you could say that the front 3 bogies are for air travelers only( (showing thier boarding pass after checkin or airline ticket) and the rear 2 bogies are for regular airport travelers. Since we can position the train on each plkatform, glass partitions can be errected to seperate the travelers.

I think there is a confusion between HSRL and Yelahanka Metro to BMRCL as well as to Mr. Yeddi. I would suggest extension of Yelahanka Metro to BIAL with special compartments to BIAL passegners with luggage space. At the cost of nearly 100 crorers per KM, why wastage of money and double number of land loosers?

I think Phase II of namma metro is proposed to have a stop at EC. IMO, even if HSRL is deemed to be a white elephant, we can atleast have commuter rail if the existing railway infrastructure of SWR is optimally used.

The recently proposed Airport Business Park is proposed to use the assets of SWR for cargo purposes. So i doubt HSRL can get to carry cargo.

Finally something that Devesh and I agree on (other than that Bishop Cottons is one lousy school :)).

I agree that Mr.Sreedharan is an outstanding executor of projects.  However we need to do the right things before doing this right.  A thorough evalauation of financials and risks needs to be done before we commit $1B to this.  

A lot of the time taken to the airport (50% during non-peak hours) and 75-80% during peak hours is within the city.  By spending Rs.5000 or 6000 crores we can add close to 60 route-km of Metro.  A good Metro system can take 40000 passengers/hr in one direction.  If 60 km is spread across 4 high traffic corridors, we can take somewhere in the 1-1.5 million range off our roads.   The roads will become freed up and the ride to the airport will take less. NHAI is anyway planning some elevated roads and flyovers along  NH7.   Investing 1B should mean the most benefit for the maximum number of people.  We don't need these showpieces.

Srivathsa

 

With no intentions of starting another stormy thread.. I am just curious to know if BIAL is moving ahead with any improvements at all? I just randomly checked BIA and HIAs websites and - again I was a bit disappointed to see BIA - with same old info... the only thing that changes is the arrival and departure widgets.. HIA has new pics posted with so many other ancillary things completed other than the hotel also completed.. what happened to ourr own Hotel at BIA? they have not even started it? I know we have a controversy over it but wasnt 2500 crores part of more than what we have got? Perhaps this question is for Devesh... do you know if anything is moving? What about Cargo buildings? Did they complete them?

Wanted to add, I travelled from Shanghai airport to city via Maglev. There is nothing about Banglaore high speed airport link which is going to be anywhere close. That travels at an average speed of 300 kmph, capable of 400 +. Secure, stops right at the airport, great parking at entry etc. The occupany of the train was like around 5%. It is pretty much another trip attraction, like a disneyworld ride. In the hotel and among the locals, the default is to book a cab. I think our airport link will end up being something similar.

Suhas

mcadambi, I agree every case is different and really there is no apple to apple comparison in such complex scenarios. My only take was that dont go by something because its glamourous and flashy, if there is sound Engineering and financial justification, then definitely go for it. In that context, can you elaborate on the points, "HSRL will be more successfull because it will be better connected to Namma metro and peak areas such as Electronics City and ITPL area". I though Devesh had touched upon these in his points and first cut, it doesnt pass the sanity check. Woudnt extending Namma Metro from Yelahanka to BIAL be much cheaper and more effective as it connects to the METRO grid wherever one is.

Suhas

Thanks for the reply Devesh. You are right I was a hermit crab for a few days... some changes on my side still getting used to it :). Getting back to the Slow progress you mentioned. If Mr.Brunner is not ready to talk to you or arrange for a meeting with Praja it looks like they have something that is bothering them? Or its because they are overwhelmed with the response People have given to BIAL itself. Possibly the consortia did not expect such questioning and thought they could get away with anything. Not being negative my only concern is they should not miss the train by being late. If UDF comes in to picture they are already getting that from International travellers.. are they worried about domestic? My take is - if they could have really delivered a better product with everything promised atleast? then they had the leverage to talk about UDF etc. When they have fallen short of their promise how can they sit quite? Again - can we put pressure on them to have a meeting with us? Another Tour of the Airport Terminal to tarmac is not what we want - I guess most of the praja members already know whats there - we are interested in whats coming....??

HSRL is cheaper and ideal: Sreedharan S Praveen Dhaneshkar,P M Raghunandan,DH News Service,Bangalore: DMRC Chief E Sreedharan has warned the State government that any talk of an alternative to high speed rail link to Bangalore International Airport at this juncture, would dissuade and discourage the private companies, which have come forward to implement the project. “The government should never think of a metro to the airport in the present context and once the HSRL is in position, there will be no need for a metro at all,” he stated in the letter to the CM. According the DMRC MD, HSRL costs only Rs 3,800 crore, while metro to BIA costs at least Rs 5,000 crore. Moreover, the government has to make huge investments as equity for metro, while HSRL is proposed on public private partnership model and the government would spend only a small amount. 13 REASONS FAVOURING HSRL *HSRL is cheaper than metro *Metro needs large scale land acquisition *Metro travel time from city to BIA is one hour, HSRL 23 minutes *Metro cannot be implemented under PPP model *Metro not ideal for connecting far off places like BIA *Metro cannot have check-in facilities *Metro connecting airport in other countries hardly patronised *Metro to airport is not part of CTTP plan *Metro needs heavy subsidies, HSRL does not need any. *HSRL doesn’t need much land as it runs on pillars *Metro is viable only if the ridership is over 25,000 per hour per direction *With B’lore getting into the league of major international cities, HSRL is unavoidable * Any talk of alternative will de-rail proposed HSRL source:http://bangalorebuzz.blogspot.com/2009/01/hsrl-is-cheaper-and-ideal-sreedharan.html

With due respect to Mr.Sreedharan, this borders on blackmail - "listen to me or else...".  If the project is indeed as profitable, then there will be no dearth of private players.  What are their names now that he says someone has come forward to do this.

Some basic questions from dimwits like me

a. Why can't Metro run on pillars?  Why land acquisition for Metro and none for HSRL?  Apples vs. elephants (not even oranges)

b. Metro cannot be implemented under the PPP model.  Is this the 11th Commandment from the Bible?

c. Where has been stated that we need to travel in 23 minutes to BIAL?  Can we have something that costs Rs.1000 crores and takes us in 45 mins?  Has such an option even been considered?

d.  With Bangalore getting into the league of ... HSRL is unavoidable.  Tautological - HSRL is needed because HSRL is unavoidable.

e. Metro not ideal for connecting far off places.  Singapore's EW line runs more than 35 km from Pasir Ris to Boon Lay.

f. Metro to airport not part of CTTP.  Big Deal.  High time Metro to North Bangalore was included in the CTTP.

g. Metro not viable unless 25000/hr.  And HSRL is viable at 15000/day?  This seems to come from the Bush School of Voodoo economics.

h. HSRL is cheaper than Metro.  For whom?  the passenger? the government? the non-airport using public.  Please clarify.

h. Any talk of alternative will derail HSRL .  If this is a good reason to build HSRL, I wonder what sort of thinking has gone into this project.

Srivathsa

 

 

 

With due respect to EM Sreedharan on timely completion of Konkan Railway & various Delhi Metro phases so far the following short comings on his adamant nature
1. He was pushing the sky bus when he was with Konkan Railway & when the experimented with it in Goa, the moment he got shifted to Delhi metro, he started ditching Sky Bus where ever/when ever possible. How does it become the best technology when he is in, and obsolete the moment he is with another provider/technology?
2. He ditched Hyderabad metro the moment the AP govt. shifted it on PPP Model. Does he think that Govt. Equity will flow as in the case of Delhi Metro for other state citites? That too with a Govt. which thinks there is no land area for India beyond Vindhyachal
3. All praises(only praises) he got for Konkan & DM has made him Pomp Head, and thinks what ever he dictates is THE RIGHT.
RMB

Srinidhi,

Exactly.  The tone seems to be - "How dare you people come in the way of my pet project?  Don't confuse me with data, my mind is made up".  We have many of these engineering marvels in Bangalore today - the Richmond Circle flyover, the cable bridge. The BETL will get added shortly to this list.

It costs only Rs.3800 crores as per him.  We can have a BIAL branch near Sarjapur Road for that amount ;).

Srivathsa

 

Was of the opinion earlier that area around the airport would develop rapidly and all the people from the hardware park and other places would need a metro instead of mono..

However with the govt decission banning borewells etc in that area has been a setback for development..hence may be monorail can suffice!

As Indian companies don’t have experience of Monorail project, involvement of multinational companies in joint venture with a Indian firm will bring up the best possible outcome.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bangalore/Land-takeover-for-HSRL-soon/articleshow/5783294.cms

 "Besides cutting down commuting time to less than half an hour, HSRL could transform the economic landscape of the Bangalore North region, especially Devanahalli, Yelahanka and the airport corridor. Every large city — be it Shanghai, Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur or London — has such a direct, high-speed link which results in economic multipliers far outweighing the high initial cost of construction"

 

  Never understand CM's view on this..the two sentences above are forming an oxymoron..how can economic landscape of blr north change becos of this exclusive airtport link, as evident from the second sentence?

Economic growth happens when there is a public mass mover(read metro) not exclusive train(hsrl aka white elephant)

They all seem to be disillusioned with the fancy names in the proposals!

Abide doesnt like it and so do many others..why this now?

This is like saying 'Let them eat cake'!

 

We need to re-look at HSRL as mentioned by Mr Padiyar.

HSRL is short sighted approach, taking care of only few Airport Passangers &  its going to be waste of Public money of Rs 2500 crore to be pumped by state and Center Govt with Public Land getting Transferred to some Pvt firms in the name of HSRL.

Govt should drop the HSRL and concentrate on improving the Broad Gauge Rail Track  infrstructure with Double Track from Yelahanaka to Chikabbalapur and Electrifiction and ensure that Train can run with speed more then 120-140Kms/ Hr.

Why are we so much obsessed with Airport connectivity when
When the Railway Broad Gauge Line is running next to Aiprot, they should extend the same to Airport  Terminal ( 2 Kms only )  and run intercity Express Trains from Airport to Bangalore city, Mysore, Bidadi, Hosur, Bangarpet, Nelamangala, Hassan Chikaballapur, Kolar, Doddballapur and Tumakur.

As the Agreeement with BIAL is that within radius of 200 Kms, no Aiprot exists, so above mentioned  towns / cities need efficient, Mass and integration with other modes of   transport needed to connect  to BIAL.

HSRL will be of Big Failure if Govt still adamant  in going ahead. This will become one good monument for Garden city.  As this will not connect  to other parts of Bangalore and near by Townships ./ Cities.

With population nearing one crore for Bangalore city and added to it other towns and cities arround BIAL,  Broad Gauage Rail with High speed Train  running  at 120-140 Kms / Hr speed will really of big use for the Airport Connectivity and other connectivity.

I think we need to file PIL in High court against  HSRL to get the Broad Gauge line extended upto BIAL Terminal with Intercity Train speed of 120-140 Kms/ Hr  running ( Trains already are running with this speed arround Delhi to Agra ).  For improving the  Broad Gauge capcity,  project cost will be less then 1000 Crore  to improve the Infrastructure for the Track speed above 120-140 Kms/ Hr and cost of Rackes will be really less compared to the HSRL Rackes.

As mentioned by  Mr Devesh R. Agarwal starting :

I have tremendous regard for Mr. E. Sreedharan, especially his construction achievements on the Konkan railway and DMRC, but DMRC does not enjoy the best of reputations on financial transparency. Sunil Jain's Rational Expectations article in today's Business Standard is a good reality check on how DMRC manipulates or suppresses figures to project a rosy picture, when in reality, it is not.

I am the first person to stand in the Yes column when it comes to better connectivity to BIA, including the HSRL. However, at a time when Karnataka has more pressing infrastructural and social needs, a detailed sanity check is required to ensure the HSRL does not turn out to be another white elephant draining the precious public coffers.

With project cost HSRL now stands more then Rs 10,000 crore,  with Existing Broad Guage Track with running capacity of 120-140 Kms/ Hr will not cost imore then Rs 2000 Crore ( Max 20% cost of HSRL ) will benifit most of the people not only Airport Passangers. 

Near future  HSRL will  become one more scandel similar to NICE or BIAL, As Lakhs of  Educated professionals are living in Bangalore, we need Good, Efficient, Affordable meeting the requiremnt of  One crore population of Bangalore city.  Not the short sighted HSRL which will be benifical to  Reliance, or some Pvt firms. 

 

 

Activity  No 1 :

NHAI will take up the task of converting the four-lane Hebbal flyover to six-lane, and make NH-7, from Hebbal flyover to the international airport, eight-lane wide and signal-free.

http://www.dnaindia.com/bangalore/report_tumkur-road-flyover-hits-a-roadblock_1373024

Already when Hebbal flyover was build in 2002-03,  part of Hebbal lake was  used for this. Now with one more ramp for the Flyover and expanding of the NH-7, this activity will bring down the Hebbal lake area.

Activity  No 2 :

HSRL Hebbal station will be built on the left side of the Hebbal Flyover ramp while travelling from City.  HSRL has project a need of 7 acer land of Hebbal Lake to construct the Check in Station. Further pillers of HSRL on the lake bed  need to come up here.

On the rigth side of the Fly-over, traffic integration  facility will come up as per DPR study of so called DMRC

Activity  No 3 :

MonoRail from Yesvanthpur to do the feeder service to HSRL  at  Hebbal  with  further Traffic intigration.

With all these activity,   I think Govt & IDD  departments have good plan to  close the Hebbal lake at the earliest in the name of Development.

Why IDD  & Govt are  not exploring the existing SWR track and  further capacity addition to SWR tracks from KR Puram, Yesvanthpur, Hosur-Ankela to K R Puram, Bangarapet-Whietfiled to Yelahanaka. In all these segments, travell time will be  arround 35-50 Minites as recently introduced passanger train from Yesvanthpur to Devanhalli takes 60 Minites as this will stop at all stations. If We have Fast Local Train with Electric engine, travell time will be less then 40 Minites.

Now with HSRL from MG road will be 30 Minites and further add the time taken to reach at MG road or Hebbal  ( only two location )  will be more then 60 Minites.

With METRO getting integrated at four location to SWR stations at Mejestic, Yesvanthpur, Byappanahalli,  Mysore Road,  their is no sense  & its clear picture for wha purpose IDD is working hard to sign the deal for HSRL with 10, 000 crore project & govt money in that is 2000 crore with 300 acre of Land being given to Pvt party for property development.

I hope Praja Members do the bit of campaign to Save the Hebbal Lake.

 

....On the ground. So, now we can travel more safely, or should I say - with reduced danger !

The route - Cubbon Road, Raj Bhavan Road, Chowdaiah Road, Windsor Manor bridge, Bellary Road, Mehkri Circle, Hebbal flyover (where elevated HSRL crosses over on the right side) 

Source

Bengaluru, May 14: Considering the encouraging response to passenger trains on local circuits, more of them could be introduced in the city shortly. For instance, the train to Devanahalli could be extended to Chikkajala for the comfort of passengers heading to the Bengaluru International Airport (BIA), but railway officers say it could take at least three to four years to provide seamless rail connectivity to the BIA.

The railways have been encouraged by the response to the passenger trains running from Yeshwanthpur to Devanahalli and Yeshwanthpur to Hosur, which have been seeing occupancy of more than 70 per cent, mainly due to the low fares and the connectivity they offer to the suburbs.

South Western Railway officials are now in talks with the infrastructure development department to chalk out more such circuits for the trains based on passenger utility surveys.

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/bengaluru/commuter-trains-hit-city-get-more-soon-813

So, now IDD / State Govt with BMTC should provide good connectivity to BIAL, hope to see more trains to Devnahalli soon.

Sanjeev

Yes, Bangalore is adding close to 2000 vehicles onto its roads every day..at this rate we will not have enough roads to handle the vehicles!

A very prudent thought is to dedicate one lane of road space (15 ft) at grade for the metro. Yes, this will give rise to some challenges for road users and for that we can have underpasses(magic) and bridges as needed..

All this will do is make the trip to the airport faster and make a statement to the public that they do not need personal vehicles all the time!

Next 15 years Devanhallai Airport will not see any mass public transport expcet these high cost BMTC buses (  equvialent to travelling by taxi  if   2 /3 people go to airport )

METRO PH-1 itself becoming very hot for GOK to  keep floating the white elephant,  then already PH-2 is  draging its weight  so that GOK will sink and intern city sinks on debt burden.

Bangalore need a bailout package from PM   for all these white elephents to surrive or citizens  not to have much tax burden.

So in effect,  BIAL Aiport can look forward for mass Public Transport only after 2025

Looking at the BIAL , which itself is not intrested to get the halt railway station below Trumphet Flyover, which may cost just 50 Lakhs to One Crore.  That means BIAL does not want mass Public Transport so that more cars pass thru toll highway and more cars pay the parking fees at BIAL Airport.