BMTC Meeting Update - Need innovative ideas!

Hi,
  I appriciate the fact that you met the BMTC officials and there was a very useful interaction regarding how to improve things. But it would be nice if you can extend your ideas to involve all the people not just the "elite" crowd. The intention should be IMHO to improve the overall public transport scene. Sorry if I am being preachy.
 
I can think of a few things to improve the quality of service.

 The current BMTC service tries to connect all the parts of the city to a ver few number of centers like KBS, KR Market , shivajinagar. What I would suggest is to drop this idea.
1. Instead we can have services originating from the central district (like the BIG10) and terminate radially at the peripheral parts of the city.
2. We can have concetric services which connect these radial routes through ring routes (like the buses which ply on the ring road). There can be 4 or 5 concentric services at various distance from the cental district.
3. Also provide services to the KBS, Satellite bustand(mysore road) , Shivajinagar and KR Market seperaltly or tailor the above mentioned routes to include these in the route.
This would decongest the traffic and also give better connectivity to all parts of the city. I just hope that there are proper roads to consider this plan.

navshot,

The end objective is to push for better Public transport and that needs lot of improvements on its various supporting infrastructure that you have mentioned. This engagement with BMTC is an window of opportunity to work with BMTC and form a relationship to work for the greater objective. Popularizing Volvo is a kind of pushing for more PT ridership.

nl.srinivas,

Appreciate your comments. All the Praja initiatives are open to all and the very fact that these are posted on public domain are for greater audience and their participation. Please join the team and Praja definitely needs lot of help for its various initiatives including BMTC. Pls PM manjari, sudheendra or ritesh for further information.

Regarding the routing and scheduling, yes, the existing structure is not the right one for today's needs. There have been lot of suggestions, in fact some with concrete proposals. I am sure Praja BMTC EM team would take this up with BMTC and work on to ensure that every locality in the B'lore have a reasonable PT connectivity. But this needs lot of efforts, patience like a TEST MATCH.

 

my basic observation from all these comments is ---- connectivity and reliablity are the major concerns. Not the type of buses. So,  would suggest in the next meeting we should emphasis more on these points. I take this oppurtunity to put forth some of my points :

1. Avoid having too many bus stands / terminals . This will ensure more buses on road and so, better usage of resources, better planning, better timing fixtures, better monitoring, and all this directly achiveves better connectivity and reliable.

2.. Introduce feeder like sytem. Remote areas need to be connected to main roads or to some connecting junctions. For these services, mini-buses are far more sufficent. This will directly help in building up connectivity. and so, the usage.

3. Regarding advertisements ..... i think bmtc can use the back of ticket. They are usually left blank and so, can be used for advertising.

4. My dream is this : Just like how mobile phones are there with every one, Just like how every one has bank a/c,  every one should have bus pass.

ok, These are my thoughts. 

thanks,
srinath
 

We have said we should never belittle discussions, we all get started into all this by talking and discussing first

But, if you believe in certain things, please come join this project to drive it your way. Praja is an open platform, and we just started to get organized on projects front.

There can never be perfect consensus on anything. A good number of people felt like going to this short notice meeting, and they did (on a weekday at 5 pm, some bunking work)

Objective is to first build relationships with BMTC, and to hear their side on the Volvo story.

Many here have expressed in the past that Volvos were a good idea because they take bigger footprint vehicles (cars) off the road. This is certainly visible in the case of 335E and 500K. Promoting Volvos doesn't mean demoting BMTC's regular services. Why play the "this vs that" card? But yes, if we find that its not possible to sustain Volvo service, and they are getting subsidized from regular buses, we will all raise our voices together. But how do we even get to know that - their operations in detail? From those once-in-a-while newspaper stories!? Or by the 'hear-say'?

With time, as we develop understanding of BMTC's operations, and if we present a constructive face, we should be able to learn and possibly do more. Let us get in first, we are designing Praja (projects or discussions) to be as open as they can be.

Lets get more data, more insights for even more meaningful discussions here. And hopefuly some action and changes, though thats not guaranteed or a must to keep us going.

Cheers.

PS: Perhaps BMTC thinks this website's readers are mostly Volvo prospects, thats why we got started with this topic first.

SB,

Thanks for posting a comprehensive viewpoint. I think I should have been more clear in my earlier comment.

navshot, sv, and all prajagale,

The yesterdays meeting with BMTC was a first step towards building inroads and friendship with BMTC. Until now, you all have very good suggestion made w.r.t BMTC's service. There are no 2 opinions about your sentiments on BMTC, and in general on the sorry state of transportation in Bangalore. BMTC is an important part of the transportation puzzle. Praja's ultimate goal would be to influence BMTC to be better PT service provider by addressing all the required issues.

Few Praja members have taken an initiative to pass these good ideas, and suggestions to BMTC. edited. Help with Volvo service is only a start. In fact BMTC's team has indicated to the Praja team that they are looking forward to extend this relationship to address the other critical areas like route rationalization, pricing and other issues. Pls rest assured that this engagement will be as transparent as it can be. Since it is a 2-way engagement, it is required that Praja members also extend maximum possible help to BMTC. Somewhere we need to make a beginning and may be Volvo is the new beginning for a constructive relationship with BMTC. The task ahead for Praja is a very big task, but doable. Praja needs more hands, more ideas and more efforts.Lets help Praja and the BMTC team.

Looking forward to a Praja meet to take this initiative further.

Rithesh, Syed, SB,

Just to emphasize my stand, let me repeat, please do not think I'm discouraging any efforts here. And, these are only my views. Please go ahead with your plans. I understand the issues with establishing relationship with BMTC. My point is that, we are trying to sell a half baked bread and we should be aware of dangers associated with that.

I don't know if you guys have already chalked out plans/approach. Let me suggest this. We can look at the list of volvo routes and divide the routes amongst us - ideally we'll need volunteers from each of the areas that Volvo serves (I'm willing to take up routes between my residence and office) and we'd try it out ourselves for a couple of weeks. Goal is to understand the issues and get it addressed first. This would also give us solid understanding of ground reality. After that probably, we could go ahead with some kind of campaign. And, like I've already said, there are really no short cuts. We need to put this hard work. Even then, we'd still have to do things like route rationalization to get the maximum out of it. Let me know what you guys think.

-- navshot

Hello,
   I am one of BMTCs target volvo customers.  During the last few weeks, I have cut down my car use and switched to bus to commute to work.  This was in no small measure due to improved Volvo service from my home (AECS Layout, Brookefield area) via the ring road.  I much prefer the comfortable, direct (no changing buses) ride of the volvos to travelling in a crowded regular bus and trudging up the ramp in Marathalli to catch a bus in the crowded bus stop and getting pickpocketed (another personal experience).

To summarize a few points
1. Volvo (or luxury) bus bashing is not justified.  Like SB pointed out - is there some rule that bus travel should be uncomfortable?  There is an implication that all volvos are loss making and using them is like giving a subsidy to the well off.  I have read that as of now volvo service is loss making,  But routes like 335E and 500K have to be money makers.  They are all stuffed most of the time. Further, as a tax payer, I am not complaining if the govt subsidizes me a little. Also, by making it attractive for me to switch to buses, I have stopped driving about a 1000 kgs of metal with me to work. The savings in pollution and congestion have a positive value that is not being accounted for in any calculations.  With good publicity and predictable service, many people will (and have) shifted to Volvo type services and given up cars. I personally know people who have done this.

2. The role of being a pedestrian while changing buses is the worst part of traveling by bus.  Until footpaths are wide and clear of encroachment and obstacles and until crossing roads is not an exercise in dodging vehicles, and until the pedestrian and mass transportation user is considered during design and build of infrastructure, bus travel is going to be unappealing. In other words, BMTC has to find a way of working with BDA and BBMP and all such agencies.

3.Bus stops and especially major interchanges have to be better designed.  For me personally - Marathalli or even Majestic or Shivaji Nagar is quite unappealing.  Masses of people rushing helter skelter and boarding a bus becomes at est of fitness.  And pickpockets are another threat. Quite okay if I am traveling alone, but with family or slightly elderly - No thank you.

4. Bus boards, esp at night are poorly lit (For the normal service). And they are in Kannada, a language I do not read.  Dual language boards and good lighting will go a long way in helping passengers in our city.

5. The single entry, driver only pushpak buses are a terrible design and a menace to road safety.  How many times has the driver pulled away from the bus stop while issuing tickets, no hands on the wheel.  Getting in and out of a crowded bus is yet another challenge. I think this idea just has to go.  Driver only bus has to be an advance buy pass only bus. Expecting the poor guy to make change while driving is just madness.

6. Route rationalization  - well covered all over Praja. The current hubs don't make sense.
7. Bus information systems - the GPS and idea of having boards indicating bus arrivals at bus stops is just terrific.  I saw a pilot page on BTIS website showing realtime tracking of buses.  It does not appear to be working right now, but that will be just great when ready!

It is after a lot of deliberations that I have decided to put these thoughts down. I felt I'll not be true to my own conscience if I did not do it.

The meeting was supposed to be a brain-storming session as to how to increase the rider-ship in the city VOLVO services, that is excluding the airport (Vayu-Vajra) services, which is bleeding them heavily (They appear to be pretty smug in the belief that the Vayu-Vajra services are doing well currently, whereas I would think thay are also bleeding, though may be a little lesser than the city services). And, with the numbers going up to 310 as of now , and another 200 more to be added in the course the next one year, there is a near panic situation now.

Added to that perhaps are the poor return on the investments made in the newly built TTMC's, and the fiancial commitments made on the upcoming TTMC's. The returns on the investments made in the upcoming TTMC's are going to be even poorer with the down-turn in the economy. As to their utility for the commuters is another sad story, altogether.

Having been closely associated with the BMTC, particularly with the city VOLVO services, both in my capacity as the co-Chairman of the CCTF and as the person who co-ordinated the implementation of the "Yelli Iddira?"(Yi) service, when I started with what appeared to me as the obvious suggestion of merging these with the BIG-10 services (say every 3rd or 5th as a VOLVO service), the newly appointed 'technical adviser'(TA - a 'she'), surprisingly ruled that out totally saying more or less that that was Prof Ashwin Mahesh's baby, and she had nothing to do with it, atleast till the elections were over. I am still to figure that out.

Further, she went on to add that the Kendra Saarige'(KS) has been removed from Prof AM's team's purview, and is now directly in the hands of the Chief Traffic Manager, Operations (CTMO). The day I had read in the papers that the KS route was being enlarged to cover Kempe Gowda station (KGS) and Shantinagar TTMC, I had called up AM and expressed my reservations. He tried to justify it, but I could discern a lack of conviction in his speech, leaving me with the impression that something was amiss. Now, it all seems to fall in place.

Given the set of circumstances, I then suggested that Yi was the simplest and most effective (including cost-wise) option. I invited TA to take a look at the site, which had many user friendly features, including for feedback.

The talk then went on to all kinds of esoteric solutions involving using google etc, which in my opinion is all just overkill.

We were then ushered into the CTMO's office. Ritesh summarised the earlier discussions for the benefit of CTMO, and laid out some kind of an plan of action, including some tasks for the PRAJA team. My trying to say that what was needed was plain information, which can be comprehensively achieved through Yi, and a bit of publicity of that, didn't seem to find favour with the rest, and I piped down.

Thereafter, the CTMO went on to elaborate on how KS was an utter failure, because of which they had to intervene and take charge, further confirming my belief that AM is on his way out, pretty soon. I tried to say that that was possibly where publicity was required, and the failure was largely because of the lack of it. Some heads nodded in appreciation, but not with much conviction.

The sad part is that Prof AM is, in addition, going to be burdened with the blame of running down the BMTC. The hazards of providing pro-bono services to government agencies are showing up once again. But, lessons seldom seem to be learnt.

The CTMO and his team members then went on to their rants over BBMP. I then asked the TA as to what she can tell about what was happening at the BMLTA, where she was working earlier. All she chose to say was that she had absolutely no work there, whereas after joining BMTC, she had been flooded with all kinds of work, which she finds quite exciting.

When Naveen went on ask how come the BMTC web-site, which had originally been conceived very well, is generally seen to be un-updated, the CTMO turned to one of his assistants with a "baega maad-ree", explaining away generally that the tender had expired and they needed to re-tender it. The assistant nodded his head, none too enthusiastically, though.

The only positive take home as far as I was concerned was the acknowledgement of the CTMO team members that they had indeed gone through Naveen's submission (on East Bangalore
feeder services?), and that they found it interesting, and that they will revert to Naveen in the matter in a few days. That's a certain improvement from the days when the computer was just a decoration on the CTMO's table.         

Well, all in all, I think it's all going to happen pretty soon - what I have indeed been more or less hoping for, namely, collapse of BMTC. Because, as long as they 'claim' to be running on profit, they seem to enjoy a free hand to splurge on fanciful VOLVO's and TTMC's. With it going to become increasingly difficult to cover up losses any longer, because of their sheer quantum, I think the government will soon be forced to review the whole approach. And, if by then, the likes of Capt Gopinath (supported by a PIL by Muralidhar Rao) queer the pitch for participation by the private sector, perhaps there can be light at the end of the dark tunnel.

Muralidhar Rao

Dear Rakesh,

BMTC already has a "Daily" pass for Volvo passengers. The pass is called "Gold Day Pass" and is charged Rs. 75. It can be bought from conductors in Volvo buses. It is value for money for a passenger traveling a lot on volvo buses.

BMTC has to go a long way in making their crew accountable. Buses terminating way before their termination point in nothing new for BMTC. On many days, buses never turn up at their origin, forget about it reaching its destination. 

The case is no different about their Volvo services. If you see a bus at a particular time today, never ever expect to see it again the next day at the same time. As a daily passenger on the Arakere-Double Road-Lavelle Road route, I can vouch for the fact that BMTC is no where near for a passenger to depend on a daily basis. I used to initially take a Volvo every morning from Arakere to Double Road and then an ordinary bus from there to St. Marks Road. However, the volvo service turned so unreliable that I shunned it and preferred taking a Big10, or worse - an autorickshaw. Every everning, one can see an obese idiot waiting for hours at Shantinagar waiting for that elusive red coloured monster. On some days a bus would turn up at 1755, sometime at 1815 or worse at 1915. And, BMTC claims in its own records that Bannerghatta Route has revenue akin to an IT sector route.

Currently, BMTC runs one bus behind the other to ITPL - and most of the time I've seen them go empty. Why can't those buses be re-routed to places where there is a shortage of buses?

Post this irresponsible service, BMTC wants passengers to move from cars to buses. This would never happen unless and until the corporation pulls up its socks and improve its service. I am seriously disappointed by the way BMTC operates these Volvos, and then cry about poor patronage. Not ever passenger would be an idiot like me to keep waiting for the bus. 

Either run these buses at a proper frequency or scrap them immediately. Sell them for scrap rate and buy more ordinary buses. We will live with BMTC running its first bus at 0830 and last at 1730 - heck! Who cares about the office passenger? He has his car to go home. BMTC is to run at the staff's convenience and not for passengers.

If BMTC wants to increase ridership, station a traffic controller at each important bus stop, and ensure that the timing each buses pass through is recorded. Drivers should be pulled up if the bus terminates even 100m before its terminus.

Apologies if I sounded rude, but it is just frustration of having to stand at the bus stop every evening for not less than an hour. 

--
Thanks,
Binai Sankar
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