[In response to this comment]
Mr Agarwal,
At the outset i wish to clarify that i do not have any personal animosity towards you or the armed forces.
W.r.t Army land in the prime CBD - this is what is the bone of contention. Such prime land could be better used for economic purposes than sitting idlly, for which the army has no use.
Hindi IS NOT the NATIONAL LANGUAGE. It was never meant to be and it will never be. I am only thankfully to Thiru C N Annadurai for putting a end to hindi hegemony. I shudder to think if India had embraced Hindi - the whole country would have become another Bihar.
Secondly, since when did articulating the right for Kannada and Karnataka become parochialism? For your own safety, i wish you keep your criticism of Kannada and Karnataka low. Doesn't it ever occur to you that we kannadigas have given our legitimate lands for enjoyment??? It is only due to our big heartedness and accomodativeness have people like Sir M Vishveshwariah (of Telugu origin) have settled down and contributed to our Kannada nation.
Why shouldn't Kannadigas fight for their legitimate rights? And why is Article 16-18 of the Constitution not applicable to the Army?
Forward this Forum topic
ANY PRAJA MEMBER - Is Hindi mandatory to join Armed Forces ?
I think we need an informed answer here.
Any Praja Member from the Armed Forces. Is Hindi a mandatory requirement to join the Armed Forces ?
It will also be helpful if you can also please explain why ?
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
IAF's recruitment Ad
[http://www.thehindu.com/2008/04/10/stories/2008041052390300.htm]
"Nearly 2,000 applicants register on first day
Written test held
in Hindi and
English only"
From an officer's mouth
"G.U. Naren, Wing Commander, Airman Selection Centre, Bangalore, said the selection process would comprise physical, medical and written tests. “As the written test is being held in English and Hindi, many students faced some difficulty in tackling it. Aspirants from North India were at an advantage as a result,” he added."
http://www.thehindu.com/2008/04/10/stories/2008041052390300.htm
Locate YEL to Itarsi, MP
Since the Army does not want Kannadigas and Kannada speakers, it is best we ask the Army to locate all their facilities in places like Itarsi, MP where hindi is a way of life.
If they want to still be in Karnataka, then let them on a voluntary basis implement the Sarojini Mahishi Committee report in their respective organisations.
scary!
I don't think anything that Devesh has put down here called for such reaction. And, this talk of Kannada nation??? This is a bit scary.
Muralidhar Rao
Hindi
Tangoo
It is the language in the constitution. It is the language on currency notes. What language other than English, would you say unites or in this case divides us ?
While politicians are dividing us on even vaguer grounds like religion, caste, etc.
Incidentally, referring to Mandarin, it is not the majority language spoken in the world, but the first Chinese emperor Qin Shi Huang, unified the Chinese empire, by imposing a common script across China.
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
Too much digression
I think the discussion on the language kannada/hindi/english is a very digressed one. And if it needs to then it should be discussed on a separate thread.
Hindi and BIAL Signage
Nijavaada
Check Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_languages_of_India.
India does not have an official national language. The Indian constitution, in 1950, declared Hindi in Devanagari script to be the official language of the union. Now one can argue that the Armed Forces being a Union entity use the official language of the Union of India.
But, I think, a language debate, only serves to divide India, not unite it.
With regards to signage, in fact, the trend today, due to the wide movement of people with such diverse language backgrounds, is for graphical signs. Imagine our plight if Japan or Thailand or China or Korea started putting signs only in their script. We would be lost.
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
Hindi Signage
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
// Given their level of
// Given their level of national pride, they prefer Hindi over English.//
So, non-hindi and english speakers are not welcome into the army?
Hindi and Bihar ??
Dear Mcadambi, what makes you associate Hindi and Bihar? Do you even know the languages of that region?
Hindi and national language debate is one thing, but this disappointing lack of knowledge about other regions of our own country is another. Its like how my grandparents used to call all South Indians Madrasi and Tamilians.
Maithili (one of the 15 languages in that schedule of constitution), Magahi, Angika are some of the native languages of the region. The Hindi accent people make fun of comes from the variations in pronunciation brought about by these native tongues. South of Bihar (now Jharkhand) speaks a few native tribal languages. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on what you think of linguistic states, most northern parts of our country were not split linguistically, and almost everyone bought into the "Hindi is national language" thing, so much so that you wouldn't even know the languages they speak (or spoke just a generation ago) even to this day.
Let us know and understand our country first. that takes a lot of reading or traveling. Without understanding the basics and history, it is all too easy to get drawn into debates that are far more complicated than many think.
Hindi is the defacto national language?
Sir M Visveshwariah
Mcadambi,
What is the criteria to be called a "Kannadiga"?Also when did the Sir M V became an outsider ? Just because his great grand fathers has moved from "Mokshagundam" 3 centuries ago?
I am sure every know where this great son Of India and "Kannada Ratna" was born. He was born in Muddenhalli, near chickballapur.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mokshagundam_Visvesvarayya.
If we start filtering for a "PURE" kannadiga souls, then we might as well end up with NOBODY.
Just for proving our point or view, lets not start casting aspirations on such great souls. Bangalore always lead the others in Indutrial growth because such great souls worked their life for greater good of common people.
Lets be gracious atleast when we talk of such great people.
Syed.
@ Devesh, Tango and Mcadambi
Mr. Devesh, you're talking about a policy to be made, using the "Hindi as national language," for the purpose of uniting a team of Army men and making them fight battles well! But have you looked at the numbers clearly sir? The army population and the country's population. Do you think you need an article in our constitution just because of this 1-in-1-lakh kind of a ratio?
Also, as Tango rightly puts it here, Hindi aint the national language of any geographical piece of land which calls itself a Country. Least chance being in India where you have more people speaking languages other than Hindi, than people speaking Hindi. But that alone also is not reason for Hindi to be called the sole national language of India - unlike the famous misconception that is floating in most minds in this country. The army is perhaps one such places where minds are fused with this FAKE idea of a national language's presence. De-facto, eh? There's no fact in that.
And coming to what Mcadambi has pointed out - the tests in the army being conducted only in ENG and HIN!! Isnt this against a federal setup's goals (?) of being equally favourable to people of all languages, sex, religion and other discriminating factors? Distinguishing people based on their language is expected, but an unfair discrimination is what this step taken by the military indicates.
A similar logic extended to our BIAL explains why it is not in context, and illogical to have boards, hoardings and all such public display material related to the airport in Hindi in Karnataka!! People using this airport either know only Kannada, or know Kannada and English too. So why put up a board in a redundant language on this land? Waste of time/money/real-estate, isnt it? And also it'd be sufficient if people employed in this premises know Kannada, and knowing English would be a plus. That is the way an intl. airport inside Karnataka should function.
-Nijavaada
Armed forces need a common language
This comment probably does not belong here, but anyway.
The armed forces need a common language. At the end of the day an army or airforce base in Bangalore is not to serve just Karnataka but the federation. It is kept here so as distribute forces all over.
I see a lot of references to India being a federal structure. Federalism is interpreted differently in different countries.
While states have certain constiutional rights, the defence of the federation is a Central Govt's responsibility. If war were to break out, soldiers need to be able to communicate clearly to each other. Whether it should be in English, Hindi or Spanish that is a different question. (All pilots of commercial flights have to know English).
If you study outside Bangalore and stay in hostels, Hindi is the lingua franca, like it or not. I struggled at first, but learnt. Remember Anil Kumble asking Ishant "Ek aur over dalega?".
It is not unreasonable that people joining the army to expect all entrants to know English. Just as the courts have ruled that domiciliary requirements are not unreasonable to get a seat in engineering colleges through CET.
Srivathsa
Drive safe. It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.
Agree with you on this Nijavaada
Nijavaada,
I agree with you on this one. As many jobs as possible should be given to people who have been affected by this project and to locals. With proper training any of these jobs can be done by a person who has passed class 10. But the people who join have to be willing to undergo training and present a professional image.
While I sympathise with the KSTDC taxi drivers the service itself left a lot to be desired. I paid about Rs.35/km to reach home and in general the taxi rates were about Rs.20/km. There are many taxi services in Bangalore who can use their services. The taxi service that I use is more like a coordinator who calls different drivers on a need basis.
I personally think that no more subsidized land should be given to anyone. When the IT companies started off they were small and needed help. Not any more. If you have been to Hoskote side, you will see more land that is going to be given away for an SEZ - Nandagudi. This is not dry barren land - but has 1000s of trees on it.
Srivathsa
Drive safe. It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.
comment abt army - needs thought.
Just as information exchange critical in the army, so is it critical in, lets say the security task force inside the BIAL, or lets say the support staff inside BIAL, and so on..
So clearly the common language of communication here, inside Karnataka, can only be Kannada. And to that effect, the employees BIAL hires need to be Kannadigas.
Besides, coming back to the point about lingua-france and such stuff - Srivathsa's example is not of a person who we want to talk about when talking about a Kannadiga taking Kannada seriously when in public. If an ad made in Hindi/English has to be dubbed into Kannada, and not other way round, even when, unfortunately, the person acting in that ad happens to be a Kannadiga - you can guage how much Kannadatana to expect from him/her. Taking Kumble's example in this context is not the right thing to do!
But did you mean, even our cricket team needs to speak Hindi as its common language then? What should it have been when 7 out of 11 players in the team were Kannadigas?
What should prevail in the army team inside Karnataka, who are deputed to spend long years here in Karnataka - lets say on Karwar's coastline - they ought to have a life out of their offices too - for which they'll HAVE to learn Kannada. So why not make Kannada the official language here too?
If I were deputed in Srinagar in an army camp there, I'd learn Kashmiri or whatever is spoken there and merge with the team there. In turn if a Bihari is posted in Karwar or Mangalore, in a navy camp say, this person has to learn speaking Kannada. The Indian Army is not something that lives at a single spot! Every part of it has a location associated with it, and the language of this part of the army could be the language of that land.
-Nijavaada
Army people have transferable jobs
Nijavaada,
Please see my comment about BIAL to you earlier. I agree that as far as BIAL goes as many jobs should go to the locals (especially those displaced).
The army people have transferable jobs. They are on the move. They don't move based on their likes and dislikes. They go where they are told to. Their lives are hard as it is. To expect them to learn the local language wherever they go is making it even harder on them. Their children study in 5 or 6 different schools over 10 years, again because they are forced to. We enjoy a lot of our rights and privileges because of these people. Forcing them to learn the local language - is it right? Expecting them to respect the local culture (by not being loud, etc) is one thing. Forcing them to learn 5 languages in 10 years is another thing.
Srivathsa
Drive safe. It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.
SMV
Syed,
SMV spoke Telugu at his home. His descendants still speak telugu at home but are equally at home with Kannada. Masti Venkatesa Iyengar once famously remarked that he is Tamil Kannadiga, Sir Mirza Ismail is Muslim Kannadiga but A N Krishna Rao was complete Kannadiga.
See that is the beauty of the inclusive Kannadiga identity. I myself am of Tamil Iyengar heritage and a 4th generation resident of Bengaluru, now a complete Kannadiga!
What is nauseating is these biharis and other north indians who throw their weight by emphasising a so called "national" language!
off this thread
Srivathsa,
I did notice your earlier reply.. but my intention in the first part of my recent comment was not to contest that. I made that comment with more information supporting it, thats all.
Coming to the transferrability of jobs in army, all I can say, on this thread that concerns something different, is that, a nation's polity, especially a nation whose diversity is of the order as ours, cannot be designed around such a minority of people that have to keep traveling around the country because of their jobs. I am sure more than 90% of our population stays where they are, for ages. And building a good system calls for building it catering to this mass, and not the meagre percentage that the roaming population forms. No harm meant there to the army folks.
But I agree that the army families need spl respect because of their good work, but I cannot agree to a system that works on the fact that a person is not allowed to work at a location even for 4-5 years. That is ridiculous, and is questionable too. Why in the world should we accept the system to be so frequently transferring people around, especially to such places where its employee will have to face a lot of cultural difference?! We need to question that instead of assuming certain holes in the system to be a part of a beautiful design!!
-Nijavaada
debate doesnt divide..
"But, I think, a language debate, only serves to divide India, not unite it."
Quoting Devesh in that..
I dont understand the logic behind this comment - why would a debate about the languages in India serve to divide it, and not unite it? I think that's an inclination one would have if he/she thought that language is a barrier between people speaking different languages. It is infact the strength of a country such as ours where we proudly want to show our cultural diversity, and exhibit a working model of a united nation standing on the very diversity based on language.
And for this reason, I wish to say here that this division on language basis is indeed the true reason for our unity. In a land where there are so many languages present, each with lakhs and crores of people using it, subduing or undermining the presence of one as opposed to another is but a murder of our diversity, and hence puncturing the unity balloon.
And coming to signages, Japanese ppl do put up signages, and beside that, they do have a word or two in Japanese (in their airports) because they know some ppl may not understand what the signage meant. And this is where the local language needs to be present - that was my original intention in the comment. Having signages is ruled out of this discussion because it is irrelevant. Everyone agrees to their presence. The presence of language on a fire-safety instruction board in BIAL better be in Kannada prominently, and then in English. Logically any other language is redundant there.
-Nijavaada
There is usually a reason for most things - transfers
Nijavaada,
There is usually a reason for the policies that are made. It would be better to try and understand them before terming the policy as ridiculous.
In what way are we designing the system for the army? They are hardly asking for special privileges. How is the army coming in the way of designing a system for the masses? The Central government builds KVs for them - that does not come from the State budget. They get coaches reserved for them when they travel from places like Siachen and the desert. We should not grudge them these things.
It is possible that being the guardians of the whole national territory, military people might be getting transferred a lot so as to see and experience as much of the nation as possible. You need to feel strongly for the country if you are asked to die defending its borders.
Srivathsa
Drive safe. It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.
disagree
Srivathsa,
I beg to disagree on this aspect - that an army guy needs to explore the entire nation to be able to protect it from whatever the army is allowed to imagine will attack this nation.
The point where I digress away from your line of thought is the feeling that to be able to protect the nation well, one needs to "experience as much of the nation as possible." Tell me just why does a navy soldier, say posted on the western coast (near Karwar or so), needs to know every nook and corner and the geography of the hills somewhere in Assam? I understand it may be a good piece of general knowledge, but do we see it big enough to lay hands on certain points in the polity that will influence about 100 crore people uniformly?
Getting sentimental and being grateful is one thing, and linking that up with policy making is another thing. People in the army have chosen their jobs, and we need to respect them. Not pity them. KVs are but the poorest of ideas in the education sector, and again is a very bad example. In fact KVs expose the poor educational system in our nation. Why do army men's children need special education - as in KVs? Treating them differently makes them feel down, believe me. Providing a good adaptable education background in normal schools will help these kids adapt to any school easily, and thereby mix with children of the area they mirgate to. This way education in the language of that land is delivered effectively to these kids as well.
But generally, I am dead against the idea that a person needs to be transferred every so many months/years to a strange location, be it in army or otherwise. Come on, this is the new age of technology. Transfers are stone-age fundae our age old govts. used to employ.. needs to be scrapped for our better future.
-Nijavaada
No pity
Nijavaada,
I gave a possible reason. You can disagree with it. Let me expand
Google Earth can only do so much. You need to get to know the other soldiers, other battalions, etc. And when there is a war the person in Karwar might have to be in the Andamans getting orders from some person of a different language. Moving from place to place and adjusting to new places is also an important part of life for them. The basic point being that no one should get too comfortable in one place. it is not a question of just general knowledge. (The company I worked for had exactly the same principle - never let anyone get too comfortable - many of the top bosses were from the US Marines).
Just as you are convinced that treating them differently makes them feel put down, I know several friends from KV who were perfectly happy (one of them was IIT JEE #2) in KV. So our opinions even out.
You still have not answered my question. How have we designed the system for the army and not for the masses? Which system is this? The army has certain requirements - the knowledge of either Hindi or English. And as you said we join on our own free will. You can certainly petition them to have it in Kannada.
If someone from Karnataka or TN or AP needs to become a commercial pilot, they HAVE to know English. This is a requirement because the safety of passengers depends on it. We cannot shout "discrimination".
And as far as prime land in the CBD being with the Army, I am personally happy that it is out of hand of land grabbers. There is at least some greenery left on MG Road - Parade Grounds, RSI. And the only place where traffic moves smoothly on Airport Road is on the stretch between Domlur and AG's office - with Army land on both sides.
Thanks
Drive safe. It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.
not opposing english
Srivathsa,
I dont know if you havent yet realised this - I am not opposing the presence of English in the proceedings of the army. I am only saying that the only other language that is held as common to a particular camp in question needs to be the language of that region. I am sure this system will work.
And, to answer your question - I never said our system is indeed built to cater to an army whereas it is imposed on the entire nation. What I am referring to is any such imagination of there being a common language, Hindi or anything else, for the army across the nation, would be like building a system based on the requirements of a minority few.
That aside, my opinion is of the nature that we need to prepare for even better times, while standing on what we have today. So to that effect, we should consider English as a good medium to interact, understand technology (because books are in english) and so all such things; But keep in mind that we should constantly strive to reach that day when we can do all that using Kannada itself. Having that goal is quintessential to success of a Kannadiga.
This need is far beyond a person's need to drive smooth on a road today, with uninterrupted stretches of tar-road visible and available for one to conquer at his leisure! I think we have a far tougher nut to crack in life. Solving Bangalore's problems is but a part of the big picture. What we use to solve these problems as well, is again something we need to watch out for.
-Nijavaada
Not against local language
it is very difficult to work in any of the big MNC here if we cant communicate in English. Communicating with the global people is part of of our job so there is a need to have knowledge of english. Similarly for Army, their job is to protect our county from foreign intruders. If we study our Map, most of our neighbouring countris shares the border with “Hindi Speaking” belt of India. So the knowledge of Hindi becomes a sort of manadatory if we want to server in Army. Also, there is no need to play regional sentiments card if the security of our contry is at stake. Our esteemed Army know whats the best way to communicate with each other and there is no need for us to teach them.
passage to English
Today's TOI editorial has a lot of relevance here. Click on http://timesofindia.india...
Muralidhar Rao
Hire local for civilian roles in the Army
Locals can be hired for civilian roles in the army - such as defence accounts etc etc. But even for this the Army recruits only people who know Hindi and English. The Army is a constitutional authority and should adhere to the same language policy and have and render services in all languages in the eight schedule.
sensible
mcadambi's comments here with respect to distribution of labour in the armed forces is very valid indeed. Basically the intention and policies based on which jobs are given out in the army should be fair, and not based on a language which one set of people can have an unfair benefit over the others.
In fact this kind of situation has led to a big deal of Punjabis ending up learning and speaking only Hindi amongst themselves, because a good percentage of the army people hail from Punjab and nearby places. But recently we've all seen how Punjab has started realising the adverse effects of this ONSLAUGHT of Hindi over their own language - Punjabi.
Someone was talking about our country having borders with most countries speaking Hindi - Nepal, China, Pakistan, Burma, Bangladesh, Bhutan - Point one country among this which speaks Hindi, and more so officially!! I am sure you'll fail to find one here.
This is the very problem. People have very strong and preconceived ideas about Hindi, when it comes to the people of this country. We need to get out of it, and start seeing reality.
-Nijavaada
hindi belt - myth!
"Most of the countries share border with Hindi speaking belt of India" is the most obscure myth ever.
And my earlier comment talked about that too. List down the states that you're talking about, and lets see how many of those are actually according to your claim.
-Nijavaada
Sri Lanka and Tamil
We share a long coast line with Sri Lanka, yet the Navy and IPKF did not recruit from Tamil Nadu and still wanted to have only Hindi while combating in Eelam.
So according to the army those who do not speak Hindi and English are unwelcome!
At this point, why should we in Karnataka give our resources for the army????
Hindi in Army
Usage of Hindi in Army can be tracked back to struggle for independence or movement against East India Company, which had their base in East India where majority of people can understand Hindi. If you go through the below link you will find that “Avadh” state (currently UP…Hindi Belt) was the center of revolt against British Rule.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Indian_revolt_of_1857_states_map.svg
Also if you remember the patriotic song “Hindi hai ham, watan hai Hindustan Hamara” Here they have mentioned Hindi as language of freedom figheters. I think because the “freedom struggle” was centered on Hindi belt, it became official language post independence.
Also, If you know Hindi, you will not have any problem communicating with peoples across north india. However it is not true with any of the regional language of south India. If I have a transferrable job as “Army”and have limited learning capabilities, I would prefer to learn Hindi and English in addition to my regional language so that I can communicate with most of the fellow countymen.Sure
No Kannada signs leading to the airports
As expected the Hindi zealots are making point of Hindi imposition a right by now using the airport.
The sign to Bangalore airport is Hindi/English only. So perhaps Kannada is loosing its official status to Hindi.
One sees Hindi signs in trains that says "if you dont speak Hindi you are not Indian". One would know first of all Hindi is not an Indian language but came down by muslims. The speakers of Hindi have lost their own language. It is matter of time these racist signs pop up in airports and in domestic flights. After the successful decline of North Indian languages now they are trying to displace southern languages.
Coming to the point Kannada does not even appear to have its place in the roads leading to its airport! Only English and Hindi. The racist statements on the trains is now clearly being implements!
kannada signs were being put up.
While travelling on the bellary road yesterday, I saw a lot of new sign/direction boards were being put up. None of them were in Hindi, all of them were in either Kannada or English.
One general comment on the debate on kannada, english and hindi from me would be, To grow the usage and popularity of one language you need not supress the other. And if someone can support english (which of course is much more foreign and not more than 10% of indians can speak) as a medium of communication then why not Hindi (which atleast 40% of our countrymen can speak).
Kannada for sure should be given the respect that it deserves being an ancient language and being the primary language of the state, but that should again not happen at the expense of other languages. And the promotion of Kannada should be done in a way which is more inviting rather than imposing. Ofcourse not everyone would learn kannada whatever be our approach, but then it is their misfortune.
How about starting kannada speaking lessions at any small//large forums that you have access to. In your workplace in your neighbourhood anywhere, I am sure you can easily find few people who do not know the local language but are keen on learning it, even if they are not keen pose it as a teaser and I am sure they will get interested. Just a few words a few sentences at a time over the tea/coffee conversation would also take them a long way. Will that not be a good start.
An aside comment, since we are on the languauge issue: By not having signages on buses in english is definitely hurting our campaign to encourage people to use the public transport. Also, Learning Kannada or for that matter any new language, to be able to speak and understand is a lot more easier than also being able to read/write.
Hindi
Dear தமிழன்,
firstly, my apologies for copy-pasting your name because I could neither read it nor (and hence) type it. I however, contend that this fact has no relevance to the issue in hand. This thread is only about signage to the airport that needs to be understood by everybody travelling to the airport irrespective of their linguistic abilities.
It is very heartening to know of your passion for Kannada or rather passion for all things but Hindi. I also learnt from you today that Hindi is a language that came to India through Muslims. The wikipedia article on this does say otherwise but I would rather trust you than those anonymous strangers on Wikipedia with no credibility.
I also admire your clear thinking that sees an indelible link between Hindi and racism. It is a serious issue that these 'racists' have successfully wiped all the north Indian languages and now marching towards making the south Indian ones extinct. I can almost visualise that happening on the Indian map like analogous to satellite pictures of monsoon they show in DD news.
Finally, hats off to your researching abilities which enabled you to write about the Airport Signages being only in English and Hindi without ever needing to visit the airport. I agree that your time and cause are too important to waste on trivial things like checking facts before making assertions.
Sir, one thing I find a little low for your honourable esteem is that you apparently have no issues with English. As you rightly pointed out, languages sweeping geographies is a serious issue and I wish to remind you of the 'evil white mens'' plot to force English throughout the world. They have already succeeded in making people of Japan, China and even traditional anti-English people like French to embrace English. They have used very clever tactics like economics and development to achieve this.
However, I am sure we can successfully counter all these language intruders by a very simple measure. We should adopt their own tactics and beat them in their own game. I suggest that we start by printing stickers which say "If you dont speak ______, you are not a _____" and distribute them freely. Everyone can fill in these stickers with their own choice of words and stick them on trains, buses, aeroplanes, auto rickshaws and any other public vehicle or place. After about one year, we count how many stickers are there for each category and announce that as the official language of that place.
I am sure you will be impressed by this path-breaking and simple idea. Once we decide upon the language of the city, then we can put all the boards in that language. I know it will make it a bit inconvenient for people visiting from other places, but we should not forget that our primary goal is to combat these language intruders.
Assuring you my support in your stand,
yours faithfully,
- Summer Glau
- Summer Glau
how about signs?
Signage with an airplane (including for arrival/departures) is the need..
http://bangalore.praja.in/blog/narayan82/2008/03/29/questions-bial-first-list#comment-2469
we havent even decided a name and how can we put up boards?
'Bengaluru Vimana Nildhana'?
"But, I think, a language debate, only serves to divide India"..
Mr Devesh says a debate about a problem serves to create more destruction and harm than construction and good - but how? - pls explain how this divides India Mr Devesh.
I disagree with Mr Devesh. A debate happens because there is a problem and is aimed at finding a solution - people learn and become wiser by the debate(the trick is to have an open mind). If the debate is put off or avoided the problem does not go away- it only grows bigger unnoticed until it assumes monstrous proportions and one day brings upon us unmeasurable and irrevocable consequences. This is just postponing the inevitable and is not at all smart at all. I believe this is erroneous thinking.
________________________________________________________________________________
Note: 'You' = 'any of us' (it is not anybody in particular).
Regionalism: Regionalism is taking shape in many parts of India. Some of these areas and their languages and cultures are innumerable times older than Hindi- so naturally there will be a sort of opposition to imposition of young Hindi- further its natural for someone to reisist imposition of anything. Whats the solution about Hindi and integrating languages? - heres what i feel: 1) For integration sake 'Hindi or English' one of them can be made compulsary for students of all states to study at school(gives more choice), 2) The language of the state be made compulsary(e.g, in Karnataka it will be Kannada), and 3) One extra Indian language for every school student compulsary. 4) English and Hindi may be taught by the Govt regulated organizations at nominal costs for people who dont know English/Hindi but want to learn the language. English is a language of the world getting popular in all countries by the day, and helps people when they go abroad.
Regionalism: Parochialism should be discouraged. We must understand we are Indians and we have a responsibility to keep India together. We cannot have the cake and eat it too. Nothing in the world has had zero evolution- things change a with time. Do we want what Raj Thakkeray is doing in Maharashtra?- i dont want that personally. We must learn not to discriminate based on language or caste etc and not consider immgrangts who assimilate as immigrants, rather they must be consider our own - but at the same time the immgrants should not live in ghettos - immgrants should assimilate, integrate and learn the local culture. You cannot live in a Country or State without having any 'love for the country/state' or 'love for the Traditions of the Country/State'- it does not work that way- if you dont love that country/state then dont go there in the first place- you cannot use the country/state only for monetary benefits. Kannadika/Tamil etc should not be based on race - it may be based on who learns the language and integrates with local culture and populace. It is also parochialism to go to a place and live mainly within only one's own community(not physically - but in culture and with whom we hang around) in ghettos. We must all remember than our culture changes with time. Immigrants learn from locals and assimilate and at the same time locals learn new things from the immgrants- so we get a more cosmopolitan culture- this is unavoidable- this is evoloution.
INTEGRATION IS NORMAL AND NATURAL. IT DOES NOT HAPPEN ONLY WHEN WE RESIST ON PURPOSE.
Thanks.
signs and name
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
Very well said mailabode
Very well said. I couldnt have said it any better and agree to each and every point of yours.
Signage
Like Narayan Said.. we need standard signage and boards - govt has to decide on the templates and then call companies to make it to match the template. No violation in designs or fonts or size and specification. Also any graphic to depict the sign or board makes it easier for users (Citizens) - Its something that has been proven all over the world that a picture is worth 100 words.. (simple rules of usability) so if we can have symbols like (blrsri said) an aeroplane sign on the way to the airport will make it easier for commuters to drive to the airport. Also symbols are easy for anyone irrespective of whether they know a language or not they recognize what that means :) - that said we need text too but it is an added bonus to have symbols on signage boards.
Hope we can take action on this and request the concerned authorities to go on a standardization spree.
Mailabode
I fully concur with you on your stand.
I disagree with Mr Devesh. A debate happens because there is a problem and is aimed at finding a solution -
At that moment of time, certain Praja members were advocating banishing Indian Armed Forces out of Karnataka, just becuase they did not conduct exams in Kannada. Your call about parochialism, is what I meant that a language debate, at that moment in time, was only serving to divide, rather than the constructive manner in which you have put it.
Thanks for your good words.
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
Why do you need Hindi In Namma Bengaluru
Kannada is the Spoken language of the state- too bad the states were divided on language, Live with it - English is widely spoken. I think we should Kannada and English in Karnataka likewise Marathi & English in Maharastra or Tamil/English in Tamilnadu - Where is the need for Hindi (nobody is asking you to not speak Hindi in your own confines) - Why should the public boards, public announcements, bus boards in Bengaluru be in any other language other than kannada and English.
HINDI is not the National Language. Karnataka and Kannadigas have been very welcoming of people from other states (my parents being one and Telugu is their mother tongue). I have lived in bangalore and have studied Kannada and speak very well in Kannda. I for all practical purposes consider myself a Kannadiga - UNfortunately - when they say mother tongue in job applications etc- I have to say Telugu (which I speak but can't read or write - not ashamed of it). Kannadigas and for that matter all the folks in Karnataka should make an effort to teach and Learn Kannada
Each language in India has a rich history and that needs to be preserved and what better way to preserve the history by allowing those languages to flourish in their states. I see absolutely no need to impose Hindi on anybody (I agree that people living in MP should learn and speak Hindi but not in Karnataka).
Edited 24/5/2008: Ok Hari.I wish to correct
Ok Hari,
Whats the problem?- people who dont want Hindi will take English- this way Hindi is not at all compulsary.
Hindi surely is not the national language because a language cannot be imposed. But its the most widely spoken language and having a knowledge of it is not bad.
In the north if you dont know Hindi lots of people discriminate against you and i find this abominable as well.
The aim should be national integration based on either 'language(English or Hindi)' or at least 'people everywhere respecting that for India Unity in diversity is important'(and importantly not discriminating based on language) - we were slaves once because we were not united and if we continue to be disunited we will be in trouble again.
We need Hindi because...
English pushing native languages towards extinction...
Thanks mcadambi, Srivathsa
An interesting discussion. Thanks to Srivathsa for throwing light and defending our Defence Forces. Reminded me of the most neutral country in the world, Switzerland, which has four official languages - French, Italian, German, and Romansch plus English whose status as a foreign language there is fast changing. Speaking of defence, military service is compulsory in that country which has never been at war for more than 700 years because it believes in being prepared.
Special thanks to mcadambi for initiating this discussion without which I would have lost some interesting insights.
I also recall a similar discussion in December Stud's blog wherein he said he liked Hindi as a language, he loved the Hindi films and hummed Hindi filmsongs but nevertheless vehemently hated the imposition of Hindi by our (un) democratic rulers in Delhi.
Somebody also made a counter argument there pointing out an insight written by Swaminathan Aiyar which said, because of the way in which the Center tried to force Hindi down the throats of Tamils, Tamil Nadu started giving more importance to English which practice was followed by other States also. That is how English came to enjoy as much importance today as it does. If it were not for Tamil Nadu's active promotion of English, this comment today probably would have been in Hindi.
The moral I infer is that things we perceive as bad also lead us to good happenings due to the Law Of Unintended Consequences.
It may be true that 40%
It may be true that 40% speak Hindi. But that is only small part of the complication. The 'Hindi' is some ears is actually 'Urdu' for some others. Yes, you will find Hindi even in TN, which will be Tamil-Urdu which for people there think is real and only Hindi, where Hindi signs continue going dark while Urdu ones remain. The Urdu movement is discretely happening while it is heard as 'Hindi'. THis on one hand, hatred to Hindi is surpsingly right in heart of Hindi cinema. It is matter of time where muslims will boycott the Hindi script for Urdu. It has already started with the anthem.
Whatever it is, there is still no justification for a north-centric image presented by our airlines. True with other stuff like ATMs, gas, airports who use Hindi to displace the state language.
The English/Hindi road sign to the airport without Kannada I mentioned appeared in Deccan Herald one day before the airport reopened.
The yellow Hindi signs put on EVERY RAILWAY COMPARTMENT indirectly telling all non-Hindi speakers in the country are foreigns is by none other than the Indian railway establishment. This sick propoganda by Indian goverment establishment.
Addendum
Adding to my previous post in this section- the only circumstance when i would oppose Hindi vehemently is if it is imposed on me (i.e, if i dont want to learn it). However i would not oppose Hindi being available to me as an option for to study (IF i want to learn it of my own free will).
Thats my principle about school level teaching of Hindi.
Hindi singage at BIAL
The overzealous use of Hindi at our new airport is really revolting. There are signboards that are exclusively in English/Hindi. Where there is Kannada signage, it is mere transliteration like the one below. It is obvious that their intention is to hurt local sentiments.
If BIAL is so hell bent upon shoving Hindi down our throats, why not rename UDF (User Development Fee) as HDF (Hindi Development Fee) and send the bill to the cow belt states?