Bangalore has borne the brunt of bad engineering when it comes to road works. Thousands of crores are being spent mindlessly on projects with no actual value. The flyovers projects are the worst of the implementations, there are very few bridges which have proved their worth. A recent report on that can be seen here:
But unfortunately the govt is moving ahead with more of these mindless monstrocities..where the city is still trying to move private vehicles than supporting mass public transport completely.
One of the crazy plans is for a double decker bridge on the Marenahalli road in Jayanagar. Here the RV rd - Bommasandra metro line is suposed to have a long road bridge also starting near the Ragigudda station. This is to be located at the Akka Mahadevi Park, which will be completely lost due to the construction. And so will the other park on this stretch next to AAB at Udupi garden junction. COnsiderable part of Jayadeva hospital will also be encraoched on.
All this for what? So that the public can eventually ditch the metro and drive their cars over this long 'flyover' to they work places ??
Yes, today Marenahallu road and Silk Board junction is badly plagued by traffic woes. One of the worst in the world. But to fix a traffic issue, the first logical step is to understand what is the demographics of that particualr place. The time when the congestion is the highest and what constitutes road traffic there. It can easy to see that the office commuters moving from south towards HSR/ORR and Electronic city constitute a major part of the traffic there and the metro is the solution for them.
Metro has to made the ONLY solution for the commuters there
There are 3 major metro interchanges coming up on this stretch separated by just 1-2 kms:
- RV road - with Green Line
- Jayadeva - with Gotigere line
- Silk Board - with ORR line
This will practically make the marenahalli section (Jayanagar/bsk/JP ngr/BTM/Madivala) the best connected region by mass public transport. Rest of Bangalore also will find connections to get to EC and ORR through this. This is the best that anyone can ask for. SO then what is the need for the road bridge there??
Let us not over engineer and make a mess of the situation. Road capacity augmentation has not helped anywhere. Not building the road bridge will also spare a lot of money which can be used for metro or other useful purposes. Hope sense prevails!
There was a time the earlier BMRCL MD when asked about roads around metro..had said that BMRCL is only there to run trains. I wish that could remain just that for the good of all!
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possible..sensible solution
As discussed above Marenahalli road is slated to become the best connected section for mass public transport solution in the whole of the city, with 3 major interchanges in short distance apart.
However there are some road related interventions also needed..
1. Underpass at 11th main Jayanagar (RS Mutt)
2. Bridge at Jayadeva
3. Bridge at Udupi Garden Jn
With the last two, the ORR section can be made signal free from Jayadeva to Silkboard. Silkboard jn will automatically get de-cluttered with public moving to the metro.
So its high time we stop the insane plan to over engineer solutions and spend precious resources on unwanted and harmful plans!
BMRCL received only a single
BMRCL received only a single bid for the SB road interchange tender apparently..
more here
Atleast this should prompt to stop the works and redesign the approach.
The route to EC on hosur road is getting a metro line hence there is no specific need to have that huge interchange at all. So is metro on ORR going to decongest Silkboard jn.
Two important metro lines will surely change the traffic scenario on its own. There is no need of any bridge or interchnge at all..for the least the road connections will lead to tremendous pollution and will need to be avoided at every cost!
Contradictory!
In your first post, you say:
In your second post you say:
Aren't these statements contradictory?
ORR is a six-lane road throughout. Only the BTM section is 4-laned & this is why it has so much of traffic pile-ups. While generally it is accepted that road expansion induces more traffic, it is also necessary for every city to have a good road network.
This being the scenario, it is correct to have an elevated road-cum-rail viaduct as there is no scope on surface to six-lane the section. The section from Jayadeva to RV Road needn't have an elevated road section but they may have gone for it because the section from Jd-mara to Sarakki junction also has just 4-lanes. So, some of the traffic may use the Marenahalli rd up to RV rd & others may use the road via Jd-mara, thus splitting the traffic.
Generally, "overflows" from roads normally take to metro & loads between roads & metro balance out. If there is too much of traffic congestion, people tend to move to metro & if metro crowds are excessive, they take their own vehicle or shift to bus.
All for signal-free
All for signal-free ORR..
Delmia jn in JP ngr has a flyover...only if BMRCL/BDA could have planned a road intervention at Sarakki jn to make it signal free during metro construction..then we would have had a major radial (Kanakapura rd) and ORR traffic seamless there..
Thats a missed opportunity. Hoewever hope they dont repeat the same at JD mara jn and Jayadeva..btw havent seen any plans on that front as yet..
ORR is 4 lanes only at most places in south blr and short bridges and underpasses at junctions should work best..
About metro traffic, all I can say is it is best way for daily commutes and needs to be encouraged in such a way as to make it the only viable option and long road bridges on the same pillars will not help with that.
ORR is 4 lanes only at most
No, they won't. Traffic from a six-lane road on ORR cannot be squeezed into 4 lanes just in south Blr, which is why they are building road-cum-rail flyover.
When tier-2 cities like Jaipur & Nagpur with less than one-third population & probably less than one-sixth road traffic are building them at critical points, what is the big problem if they build one in Bengaluru that has serious transport problems?
Long road bridges on same pillars is the only way to remove deficiencies on ORR in the absence of space below. All anomalies & kinks must be removed & ORR streamlined. They did Nayandahalli & they are doing BTM now. Next would be Silkboard & KRPuram when ORR metro line is done.
And no one denies that public transport must be encouraged.
Bridge doesnt cater to ORR
Bridge doesnt cater to ORR traffic directly..since its ramp is only on Marenahalli road and at SB..
Also talking about Jaipur metro, where such double decker bridge has been first implemented, there is a height restriction on the vehicles getting onto it...to limit axle load which is understandable because of the limited load bearing of the pillars.
So that rules out PT options like BMTC on it and limiting to private vehicles only..which is not really helpful..
It is a known fact that Bengaluru has way too many private vehicles due to the lack of mass PT options..this has to be addressed on a war footing and building such long bridges which caters to private vehicles need to be stopped and instead we need to work to get more people on trains instead
more here
We have emulated the west for a long time and some of it has been bad and some good...however this move to move away from cars and private vehicles need to be given prime importance..
Not the way to restrain
Incorrect, take a good look at the plan for the Silkboard flyover below. The elevated road /flyover goes past Marenahalli road to the east & connects directly to ring road towards Agara. So, please research properly before attempting to justify with incorrect or insufficient information.
Your theory would have made sense if ORR was entirely 4-laned, but it is 6 laned.
At the same time, its oxymoronic that you demand underpasses /flyovers at Jayadeva, JDmara, Sarakki etc - will these not encourage car use?
Actually, it will result in more chaos as it does not separate through /ORR traffic from local traffic. The elevated section will do it efficiently.
As I said, Nayandahalli has been sorted out now & people still use trains while traffic chaos has also ended there. Traffic chaos at Silkboard will also end with this plan.
Incorrect..The elevated
Incorrect..The elevated bridge starts near 11th main Jayanagar on Marenahalli road and is slated to end at the planned interchange at SB..so effectively the marenahalli rd itself is getting augmented with another 4 lanes till SB and not the ORR itself..
Btw "traffic chaos" at SB is only because of daily work commuters traversing to and fro from ORR/Bellandur side offices and EC...when this crowd gets onto the planned metro lines the roads will naturally get decongested..
However I still maintain that junctions on the ORR (including SB) will need interventions to make them signal free..similar to what you mention on Mysore rd..but the double decker bridge starting from Marenahalli rd till SB will be a waste!
Proof?
Please provide proof for what you say instead of repeating the same thing with no evidence. I posted a published drawing that shows plan for Silkboard that clearly marks the flyover going over the intersection & on to Agara side. Also, ramps that connect Hosur road to the elevated road.
And commuters are not just at Silkboard but they also traverse on ORR and Hosur road. So, you should campaign for turning the ORR /Hosur road to 4-lane roads, also the section of ORR on the west through Banashankari. Not just maintianing only the BTM section 4 lane & then making it a make believe signal free that will continue to remain with traffic pileups.
Else your theory is meaningless & falls flat by the wayside. Nobody will buy it barring some self proclaimed "experts" that have no clue about maintaining road width uniformity to prevent pile ups & are obsessed with some bogus theory about restraining cars with only one 4-laned road section on a 6-lane road.
You are talking of the road
You are talking of the road interchange at silkboard..I am referring to the other end of the bridge..please read the article where you sourced your image from..the elevated bridge is starting from near central mall on marenahalli rd (just before 11th main jn )going all the way to the SB junction where traffic is supposed to get signal free ramps
some more info in this link
Though the report ia also partially wrong because the existing road bridge at Jayadeva is being demolished for the construction of the double decker plan..
Btw the 'signal free' elevated road coming from SB will dump all traffic at 11th main jn..how will that be handled?
And how do you think the ORR traffic is being addressed with the elevated bridge?
All traffic will not be dumped at 11th main
Please see this news report: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/four-lane-flyover-to-decongest-silk-board-junction-delayed/articleshow/65318241.cms
It states as follows:
The road consists of four loops with a ramp: towards Electronics City, from BTM Layout to Electronics City and HSR Layout, towards HSR Layout, from HSR Layout to Jayadeva Hospital, HSR Layout to BTM Layout.
Fair enough..I suppose the
Fair enough..I suppose the down ramp coming from HSR after crossing the SB junction, will use the space above the drain on the left of the ORR there...pity the traffic at grade turning left from EC towards BTM cannot ride the new bridge in the grand plan!
About the thoughts at Jayadeva junction..a down ramp coming from SB should be quite feasible when it drops just before the junction on ORR..however I wonder how they will manage a up ramp coming from JD mara side..turning right onto the bridge..which will need a loop..possibly over Jayadeva land..wonder where and how it is designed and costed..
Btw my thoughts about long bridges still remain the same..they are wasteful and dont help the cause to get public off their private vehicles..however I suppose all this talk is just academic now as work has already begun there...
Also, there is this question of the type of traffic that this double decker road bridge can support..its LMV only in Jaipur..wonder what has been designed here..
Ideology
From what I understand:
1) There may be an elevated curve from existing SB flyover (above the free left turn on the surface) from Hosur road towards BTM. This curve will rise up & connect with the elevated section for through traffic that do not want to use the surface road.
2) The right turn at Jayadeva from JDMara side towards BTM can be managed with a ramp past the intersection with a rising ramp U-turn (just like how they are planning the U-turn at Madiwala). Changes in land acquisition suggests this though it remains unconfirmed as final plans for Jayadeva haven't made it to the press yet.
3) Elevated roads or elevated road cum rail bridges can be strengthened to handle heavy vehicles. Its up to design specs but I'm not sure what they are planning - details are not on public domain as far as I know.
Your thoughts always seem from an ideaological stand point rather than think along practical terms. For example, you have in the past argued that BMRC must not build quarters for displaced people, metro must not pass near grave yards, Baiyyappanahalli depot & other infra should have been built at Kadugodi right from start, BMRC must not build flyover etc.. All these suggest some ideological tilt or beliefs rather than consideration to what is practicable for best outcomes.
Who would rehabilitate displaced? A third agency? Even so, its for state govt to take the call. And build a 15km viaduct to Kadugodi just to stable trains for the night? Jesus! That would have cost a wallop - & run trains empty early morning & late night for 15km wasting energy? Waste another 5 years building & then find out its useless & a new route is reqd?
And SB flyover design includes metro integration. So, isn't it better for one agency to plan & execute it, especially when we have huge problems of co-ordination between inter-governmental agencies?
Constricting a 6-lane ORR to 4 lanes because ideology dictates that private vehicles must be discouraged & elevated sections are a no-no, even where there isn't any other option to increase road width & capacity?
Roads encourage motorization, no doubt, but its not that we cripple the ORR at one spot & leave traffic pile ups as they are in the quest to divert people to public transport. Traffic also needs to flow freely barring volume increases, not with designed bottle necks to discourage vehicle use.
At some point, all of us will be using roads - say to take a sick relative to the hospital, or use a taxi to get to the station when we have luggage etc. What about ambulances? City services like buses, garbage handling, road repair services, maintenance of water utilities? They do not use public transport but use only road transport. Make them even more inefficient & leave them struggling in traffic pile ups?
Roads are necessary as much as public transport for various reasons. The plan should be to divert daily commuters to public transport which will anyway happen when road capacity is exhausted, but road capacity must be uniform along main arterial roads.
Hope all your understandings
Hope all your understandings and assumptions about the road intervention comes true and will be interesting to revisit this post in the next few years on what has been achieved.
Btw according to your stmt about uniform road width..that ORR is getting constrcted from 6 lanes to four lanes at SB currently..with the planned new bridge, it gets enhanced to 8 instead..then I guess we will need to widen the 6 lanes of ORR to 8 also someday!
About your other points..sorry they are not based on some ideologies..about rehabilitation..as BMRCL relies on KIADB to procure land for them..similarly KSDB or Housing Department in Govt.is surely better equipped to handle housing..I am sure BMRCL had other pressing issues to work on, like placing orders for additional coaches or planning/tendering UG sections efficiently..
About purple line extension to Kadugodi, I have always mantained metro lines had to connect places like EC and Whitefield in PH1 itself..it already had the catchment area..unfortunately it was not done..but atleast what could have been done by BMRCL is to retain the main line on OMR itself with a forethought of extensions towards WF and not turn left and bring it to grade at BYP..the maintenance line only could have turned turned inwards like they did on Tumkur rd..would have saved quite some money on construction and land acquisition for the extension..
About metro near graveyard..the thought there was again to try get that line, with a short detour, cater to dense populated areas in Koramangala..which is reeling under traffic issues..its not that BMRCL has not changed their plans at all..we did see that they did succumb to local politicians pressure to accomodate Hoodi jn turn..yes the argument could have been that there is phase 3 which would cater to the needs of Koramangala..but that is still decades away and still subject to redesign due to govt's other grandoise plans of elevated corridors thru city..
About my thoughts on roads, yes there is a need to ration it for sure..but again I do subscribe to the need for a signal free ORR..we do need road interventions but that again is the decission for another org, maybe bda in the absence of UMTA..because for example they woulfd be better equipped to think holistically, for ex about how to make the ORR signal free at JD mara jn along with the metro construction there..
Wishlists can't come true
Well, you first said that
Oh no..only if they could have done 3+3 elevated instead of 2+2, wonder how to accomodate those 2 lanes now..
Please do not mention about traffic to both EC and Whitefield was anytime less dense and manageable at all in the 2000's. I have personally traversed both these routes travelling from south blr every day from 2003-2009 and I have experienced the worst traffic there. I even know of people who have quit good jobs just because they were not able to take the traffic stress back then.
Fair enough, that is why I said a independent org like UMTA which understands transit best will need to plan it out
Btw its all too well known on what went wrong with ph1 and where BMRCL bungled. If you are in no mood to think otherwise and want to think that the cost it was done with and time that was taken was the best that could happen for the city, that is your perogative.
My views