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Sustainable public transport system - high level requirements

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Urban DevelopmentBusPublic Transport

This has been long pending in my mind after reading and contributing to various praja posts over almost a year. I took a stab at a document that analyzes the high level requirements of a integrated public transportation network for Bangalore that can ultimately cater to long term growth.

What I haven't mentioned in the document though are the challenges in achieving that. I will do that when I have time, but please take a look at the initial draft and let's discuss. It definitely seems an impossible task to implement something on those lines (lack of land, lack of money, too costly...blah blah blah)..but let's look at where we are currently..we have wasted land and crores of rupees but due to lack of planning and vision things don't seem to be going anywhere!

Please go through the attached document and share your feedback & suggestions so that we can jointly work on enhancing the document.

 

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SUSTAINABLE PUBLIC TRANSPORATION SYSTEM.doc438.5 KB

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Vasanth's picture

Good Thought and Document blrpraj

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Very good thought blrpraj. I observed you mentioning Private operators in premium segment. Ordinary buses operated by BMTC. It is an excellent point. Please do not start another BMTC privatization thread here. I agree with blrpraj that premium segment buses being operated by private operators in that operators will try to employ highly qualified drivers since their investment on the bus is high and hence the chances of Mangalore/Kerala/DTC like situations arising is less. Especially the TTMC diagram shown is excellent. It may not be possible in downtown Bangalore, but can be employed for Kengeri TTMC.
s_yajaman's picture

Good document

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Blrpraj,

Good one.  I had a cursory glance.  Will go through it later today and post my comments.

Srivathsa

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

tsubba's picture

thanks.

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thanks blrprj. i will also take some time to get back.

blrpraj's picture

only 3 responses?

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I am surprised that there have been only 3 responses so far to this thread!

tsubba's picture

responses.

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blrpraj saar. i understand that no of responses is low and that could be dissapointing. but please dont get disheartened. but serious work takes serious time to respond. i have some comments and will get back. but it will take me time.

Naveen's picture

Street Widths Insufficient

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Blrpraj,

The general consensus that had emerged after plans were made by Swedish International Development Agency, or SIDA for a rapid bus system for Bangalore in the late 1990s was that street widths were insufficient & even operation of wide-bodied buses (in mixed traffic) was not feasible on most roads.

Following this, an ELRT system was proposed under PPP model & UB group had been selected, but the project had not taken off due to increased investments demanded by UB after careful analysis of investments & revenues.

The attention had then shifted to Metro along the same lines used in Delhi, which is now under construction.

The model proposed by you would involve huge demolitions & dislocations & may not be possible as many of the buildings adjacent roads are relatively new constructions.

silkboard's picture

Reasons + paging "n" for help

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Don't be disheartened blrpraj, but if you could put this out of attachment, into Gyan or a series of posts, you would get more responses. Plus, as tarle said - serious stuff takes time to to get responses, unless you are looking for "good job" type one liners.

You have summarized things well from other relevant discussions here. If you and "n" can join hands to put this summary into Gyan, that will be great. "n" had offered to kickstart Gyan which needs one round of push, and this sort of content is perfect for that.

One other thing - only about 5-10% of people who read the post (700-800 on average over a week or so), actually click to open attachments. Call it laziness or whatever, chances that you will get speedy responses are better with more of content being present in the post itself (than an attachment).

I am particularly interested in the idea of zones - Naveen, before that Narayan have attempted, I tried via a picture in another Big10 post as well. TTMCs have role in the zone based system to manage public transportation - liked that part.

WIll get back with more.

n's picture

Clarification

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Disclaimer: have just skimmed through it and hurried thoughts are based on that. Good initial effort. Generally, my idea (that was in response to t.subbabhatta's broader question but didn't receive any responses; also provided feedback on sustainability on the "mobilicity" survey and have no idea what happened there either) of sustainability was different (more to do with being greener) than enumerated in the doc above.
At silkboard: Isn't gyan supposed to be technical / informative in nature than being praja's wants? *Confused.* If there is a separate "Praja Wants" section where this doc can be put, then the doc can take relevant extracts of standards (or best practices if standards don't exist in India or Bengaluru statutes) from gyan and expand on it or modify it. This was the initial idea on posting about gyan. For example, kerb height may be defined in Indian Roads Congress publications - the extract can be posted to gyan and the paragraph dealing with geometry (height etc.) can be "torn apart" in a subsection of the above doc (with input from praja). Facilities for handicapped people may not be mandated properly in Indian codes; extract from developed nations' best practices can be highlighted in gyan and can be suitably "Indianized" in the doc. Also, won't the authorities get "inundated" with an essay of suggestions while smaller, simpler problem-solution ideas have better chances of working (even this doc needs some time for digestion by praje here - imagine many such overwhelm the understaffed authorities from public, politicians, company sales people, tech documents etc.)? Focusing on 1-3 areas per meeting, following-up, getting it done and repeating the process seems better as there are less chances of it getting ignored or being put off long-term.
If the site's concept of gyan is to put the doc in gyan and edit it using inputs from the public (that is generally not technical), there might be difficulty in convincing authorities who are more technically oriented. In other words, in my opinion, "educated", fact-based and well-researched suggestions are taken more seriously (refer slap on the wrist from BMRCL chief). Having said all of that, if help is still needed to edit the doc, will look into it (may take a few days). Waiting to hear more before acting on it....


tsubba's picture

doode/saar

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doode/saar!!

i find myself increasingly sympathetic to your observations!

In other words, in my opinion, "educated", fact-based and well-researched suggestions are taken more seriously (refer slap on the wrist from BMRCL chief). Having said all of that, if help is still needed to edit the doc, will look into it (may take a few days). Waiting to hear more before acting on it....

again doode/saar please use a couple of more syllables for your nick. 'yen' is techincally sufficient. and ideally every praja should be an unknown variable - n. but in practice innonsolpa beku saar. for me atleast yen is not registering in my mind.

having said, that i think we will need more of blr praja type of summary. i think his document spans multiple objectives. there is an assesement of current understansing and then a proposal, which has not been discussed here(i am guessing). in the long run one way to increase outreach would be to publish  member reviewed position papers. and what would be unique is praja being a group most of these will be like geeta - a mix of all known darshanas.

 

 

silkboard's picture

anything nicely summarized, notes on gyan

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n sir - anything nicely summarized and written in fact based or "educated" tone is gyan. User requirements, or designs, standards - anything, any compilation which would make useful reading for an engineer from govt department, or a student reading around, or a citizen wanting to know more than what flashy newspaper headlines tell him/her.

Think local wikipedia, as well as an organized way of listing down citizen or user requirements. We will keep gyan editable by all members - so that those who thin they are more "educated" can simply go edit the bad portions.

If we start applying judgment or editorial control on whats fit to be on gyan and whats not, we will not go anywhere.

Trust me - 4-5 volunteers compiling useful output from discussions into small small books on gyan - that will be a powerful concept.

About authorities acting on things - lets just do our work. Those who want to do work (inside govt departments) will automatically come here if we have quality content for them. Don't ask, don't tell - that works the best, or else egos come into play ("who are a bunch of Internet junkies to tell us what we should do" -  them, or "why should we go tell those bozos all this stuff when they don't know the basics" - some members here). Neither party is right in these egoistic statements, but that's the way it works.

N, tarle, who else - need 3 more people, and I promise - will spend all my time to add some technical capabilities to gyan section - it has been left behind a bit after recent site upgrades.

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