Guys,
Please post your first hand experience with BIAL as airport in operations, which starts tomorrow May 24, 2008 @00:01 hours.
Syed
BIAL Experiences
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BIAL Cargo Warehouse in shambles
Cargo has started flowing in, but the warehouse has a gap between the roof and the wall. In some cases there is no wall, or no shutter. It is completely unsecured and not read.
Photographs are there, but I do not know to post it on Praja, so instead I request Praja members to visit my blog article. For your convenience, I have put the link to open in a new window, hence you can read the article and then post comments, on Praja and if you want on my blog.
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
Cargo-Complaints
Mr Devesh,
Did you complain to BIAL about the problems with the Warehouse ,Have they promised to correct it?
Cargo - BIAL is aware, Customs even more so
Obviously BIAL is aware.
More importantly, Customs Authorities are fully aware. How they granted permission to commence "bonded" operations is totally flabergasting. It is tantamount to the DGCA granting permission to BIAL, without a runway. :)
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
woah yogi!! way beyond cool.
First hand experience - BIAL
Folks,
sorry to add one more comment to this topic - but here goes.
Landed from Singapore into BIAL this morning. Smooth landing. Aerobridge took some time to get into place and engage with the door. Immigration was quick. There were 16 counters open and I was through in about 15 mins.
Luggage handling had teething trouble - expected. It took 45 mins for the first bag to hit the belt. Mine came 20 mins later. I guess this will be sorted out later. Belts 6 and 7 are longer and have two arms. People were patient. but it was disappointing that no BIAL manager was around to communicate with the people waiting. On the first day you want things to work well and if they don't you need to be visible to people and show that you are serious.
The arrival area is quite big. The area outside the arrival (the portico) was muddy. These are little things that need to be sorted out so that things don't fall below a certain standard. They have a separate bay for the buses. There was a traffic inspector to help passengers out with the bus routes, etc.
Took the Volvo bus home. It was VERY well patronized - all the buses actually. Our own bus had a couple of people standing!. The fare is Rs.150 to JP Nagar. Pretty decent service. reached Windsor Manor in 1 hr and 15 mins. Took another 1 hr to reach JP Nagar. Very bad traffic all the way from the stadium till Jayanagar 4th block.
A lot of last minute work (tarring, lane painting) happening. No lights yet on NH7. Traffic was not too heavy. if the buses run well, they can take a LOT of the load off the road.
Overall it was nice to land finally in something that I have been tracking since 2005 (even before I started commenting on silkboard and praja was conceptualised).
Have some pictures. Will send it to photoyogi (who can post them with a disclaimer so as to not ruin his reputation as a photographer :)).
Regards,
Srivathsa
Drive safe. It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.
Thanks, Srivathsa
Nice reading abt yr pass thro' BIAL so early after it's opening. Our Praja Folks are at the right place at the right time - somehow !
Wonder why it took 45 mins for bags to come thro' on the belt - you are right, there should have been visible & concerned efforts by BIAL with a manager around, atleast to reassure passengers who were waiting.
The portico being muddy - that's not really welcoming, but we had observed areas very well paved during our visit. So, cant understand where the mud came form.
Nice to know that the Volvo bus was very well patronized, but since it goes thro' the city with lot of traffic, it must have taken very long.
Await pictures, thanks.
First hand report from a FoF who flew out 24th morning
Message from a first-time-user of the New Bangalore International Airport, he is Ari Bloch. Please do not shoot the messenger
________________________________________________________________________________
Well, I had the "pleasure" of taking one of the first flight out of the new airport. Actually I should say "have", as the flight has not yet left. Delayed from 11:15 to 12:30 (KF to Mumbai).
The drive out was OK, but of course long. Took the outer ring road at 08:00 and then Hebbal to the airport. They had posted people to guide the traffic, but still we ended up in the parking lot and not next to the doors. OK, so there were trolleys.
Next, the "security" check. None. There is no screening of the baggage before you check them in. When I asked, they said "system changed" and it was done "inside" after you check in. What bullshit and nonsense. You mean to tell me that they will see something and recall some passenger? Hold the flight? Nonsense. This is the most blatant flaunting of security if I ever saw it (and believe me, coming from Israel I know something about it).
Only two entrances were open, where passengers were asked to present their boarding passes. One would expect several doors, or at the least to open the other ones that were closed.
The lethargic CISF are still their, with their attitude and all. Pity.
Next, the passenger area. OK, so it is better then the HAL airport. A lot better. BUT - the seating it crammed up against the gates, not enough of it, and people lining up at the gates snake between the chairs. Not enough place for everyone to sit. It is pathetic. There is more retail space then sitting space!
No lounge yet (at least for KF). Expect no special treatment.
The place is not clean. My bag fell on the floor and when I picked it up it was covered with dust. There are papers thrown around next to the security checks. No one to be seen cleaning anything.
In the sitting area, at least where Barista is, the chair are not fastened to the legs! They just come off!
So what can I say. I came ready to make allowances for a first day of operations. I still do. I am also appreciative of the fact that the new airport is better than the old one. But come on, someone has done some serious planning mistakes. It's just too small. And not to mention the (lack of) maintenance.
Ah yes, they charge a "UDF - User Development Fund" of Rs 1,070 for international passengers! Not only do you have to shell out more money to get there and waste more time, but you get penalized for it also. Oh joy.
Good luck and so long HAL airport. So many of us will miss you so very much.....
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
So your friend found nothing
So your friend found nothing good at all in the airport, Mr.Devesh? Maybe it is time to close BIAL!!
I am surprised to hear him complain about the fact that baggage check before check in has been eliminated. I have been around in Europe and North America and nowhere have I seen this. It is not bullshit and nonsense, but people are called back/flights stopped if something suspicious is detected.
This friend is new to flying
Wait for Devesh and his friends to provide us with the "BAD" news about the airport.
I fly frequently and most of the airports in the US do not have a security check before - The bags are opened inside and yes passengers are recalled if needed. I am glad that bottleneck is removed from the process at BIAL ( that is me)
Good news about BIAL gleaned from the Devesh's Post:
They have trolleys, they had people to guide traffic, they had cops (albeit lethargic - nnot sure that is unique to BIAL). They have seating , and more retail space - thank god they have something to do during the waiting.
Thanks Devesh for the postings, please do continue - I enjoy them even if I disagree,
== My 2 cents on the travel -- I think BIAL should make it more expensive to park and "push" people to using the Volvo buses - they can probably move a lot more people with less bandwidth - if this service is profitable - BMTC might be able to increase the frequency
Hari, Niranjan ....... Convenience vs. Security
I had clearly requested "please do not shoot the messenger".
I agree with you on the bottleneck of pre-screening, but you also have to see the nationality of the person who is posting. El-Al is acknowledged as having the highest level of security (even higher than AI), and the only international airline never to have been hijacked.
I wrestled with this topic. Convenience of passengers vs. security risk. On the flip side, is the ease with which anyone can get in to the terminal. The CISF very rarely check for a photo ID, and when they do, any ID will do (as per actual practice). This exposes the passenger check-in area to a potential A-Q suicide type to take suitcases packed and blow him/herself up in the check in area. In peak times, there are over 500 potential targets.
In the west photo ID is official only, and loaded with anti-forgery features. No photo credit card, or company ID is accepted, and just for your information, most of the check-in baggage is curb-side. Only international check-in baggage is normally carried inside.
I lean towards convenience, but only just.
Bad news of chaos today at BIAL, is on the TV. There were no loaders, ground handlers, baggage guys, etc. This was compounded by a failure in the ATC flight plan sub-system. Flights were delayed by about 1.5 hours.
For last night, check my blog. http://aviation.deveshaga...
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
no baggage scan at entry is more of a previlege, than a problem
I am at loss to understand why was the gentleman so miffed at not seeing baggage scanning equipment at the entrance. It is so convenient to straight away checkin rather than picking up your bags for scanning and then again at the checkin area. Most modern airports (even the not so modern ones aswell) have the same process.
Rumour mills
General advise to all, there are dime a dozen rumours floating around. Please verify content before posting it here or else where.
Lets all be fact based unbiased and democratic thats what will get our voice thru and will be able to make a difference.
-- Praveen Sundaram AkA PhotoYogi
-- PhotoYogi
I am not shooting the
I am not shooting the messenger, I am just responding to the opinion mentioned. Every Israeli is not an expert on security, just as every Indian is not an expert on spirituality. I do not want to sound ghoulish, but an A-Q type can blow him/herself with or without those pre check in baggage checks. It is not like the baggage is going in unchecked into the airplane. I know how the check in process works in the west, thanks.
Also, any new airport goes through teething problems; give them time to sort it out. Mr.Srivathsa gave his first hand report which was to quote a phrase " fair and balanced"- he pointed out problems, and also good features.
Constructive criticism is the name of the game
BIAL Experiences only!
Friends,
Appreciate all your interests and concern with BIAL. I have one request. Let this thread be exclusively for posting BIAL experiences. Good or Bad. We learn from all experiences.
I have created a separate thread for discussing these experiences.
The forum is "BIAL - what's working and What's NOT" .
Pls post your opinions and views in that forum.
Regards,
Syed
Objectivity
Devesh, if there was any doubt about your fof's agenda his last sentence gives it away:
"Good luck and so long HAL airport. So many of us will miss you so very much...."
To holdup HAL airport as the paragon for anything is the most ridiculous thing I've heard.
As for IDs, pretty much every airport in the west does not require you to produce any form of ID to enter the airport terminal. As someone else mentioned, an AQ type can always carryout his misdeed just outside anyway.
Just as an FYI, I been living in the SF bay area (Silicon Valley) since 1983 and have flown into and out of many airports all aroung the world many times. I can say without hesitation that HAL airport is the worst I've experienced and I've been to several really bad ones. This dilapidated shameful shamble should not be the portal to India's Silicon Valley.
On average I fly into and out of Bangalore several times (> 6 times) a year. In terms of location/convenience, for me personally, HAL wins hands down, so that should tell you how strongly I feel about the quality of HAL.
--amaku
BIA: A Visitor's Perspective
I had been to the BIA on Saturday evening and was there between 8:15pm and 10:15pm. It took me 70 min to reach BIA from Malleshwaram after I started at 7pm. Travel time will come down once the work on the Mekhri circle - Hebbal flyover stretch gets completed. I feel that there are a few signals and crossings after Hebbal flyover which need to be eliminated by constructing underpasses / grade separators to cut travel time.
BIA is definitely better than the HAL "airport". The ground floor of the terminal building is divided into Departure (West side) and Arrival (East side) sections. Visitors are given access only to the Arrival section of the terminal building and can't enter the departure section. Visitor ticket costs Rs. 80 for 2 hours. The arrival section has 2 coffee day cafes. The space looks good and is well air conditioned. One thing I noticed while I sat for a while in the coffee day cafe was that there was hardly any crowding in the arrival section, as passengers who had landed, after collecting their baggages simply moved out of the terminal building. There was also no crowding in front of the terminal building as there is plenty of space for the automobiles / buses to pick up passengers.The departure section in the ground floor containing check-in counters, on the other hand, had long queues in front of several check-in counters.
Most of the Volvo Vayu Vajras that I saw were full when they were making trips from the airport to the city. I saw several Vayu Vajras on the highway travelling to the airport from the city and all of them were empty (only 2 or 3 passengers). Suvarna buses were running empty as well. May be people have to get used to the convenience/economy of the buses.
Outside the terminal, some landscaping work is still pending I think. The pavements next to the bus bays and passenger drop-off locations are a little bit muddy and need cleaning. There is ample parking space for automobiles and the parking lot had plenty of empty slots when I visited.
From Deccan Chronicle
Report from Deccan Chronicle (www.deccanchronicle.com)
Problems YES - but it is not the end of the world.
http://www.deccan.com/nat...
BIA hit by shortage of labour
Bangalore, May 24: The Bengaluru International Airport, which handled 402 flights and 3,500 passengers in seventeen hours since opening on Friday night, was hit by a shortage of ground staff even before the first flight touched down. In the peak hours following the facility’s opening, airport operator BIAL realised that there were not enough ground staff to handle the aircraft. There were 400 trained ground crew, well short of the 800 personnel needed.
"Globe Ground India, a joint venture between German airline Lufthansa and New Delhi-based Bird Group were to handle half of the aircraft between them and the rest were to be handled by the Airports Authority of India," said a senior official at the terminal. "But just before the opening of the airport, all airlines wanted only Globe Ground and the consortium accepted that. It was well past 1 am and that is when crunch started."
The ground crew and, after some delay, 400 others who were supposed to come in for the next shift beginning at 11 am were hurriedly ferried to the airport. This led to delays in the taxiing of aircraft, baggage clearance and refuelling.
"BIA has only eight aerobridges and 42 ramps. The flight count is over 100 at night and airport officials got panicky as the schedule went haywire. But by morning things were under control as another 400 trained personnel were brought in. Also, Jet withdrew its proposal and went back to AAI," a source said"
My Experiance
Had gone to pickup my Brother on Sunday morning at 00.10am.Left home at 10pm Saturday night ,covered the distance of 35.3 kms in 55 minutes.From the time we enter the trumpet flyover you get an international feel to the area.
Some observations.
Had to drive around the airport twice to be able to get a parking spot ,all the parking areas were full.finally some tongue lashing at some guys in parking helped get a spot.
We went into the arrival area after picking the tickets.Was disappointed that there is no was people could know which flight had landed,there was no public announcements or the ones that were made was lost in the huge halls.
My brother took an hour and half to get his luggage and then come out.
Got to hear a passenger complaining that he has been waiting for an hour and that there were no taxis.
The mens loo near the international departure has no signs on top.
Some good things.
The laser lights on top of the ATC was cool...
The Wi Fi was fast .
There was no crowding on the arrival/departure areas.
Overall a great experiance and once the inital problems are fixed,it would be a wonderful place.
First Hand report from a public post with pictures.
From a public post at http://airlinersindia.s4.bizhat.com/airlinersindia-ftopic4097-40.html. Thanks to Justbala.
Took a flight from the new Bangalore International Airport today and here are my observations
11 gates aligned in one single row and they were all already crowded!!
not enough seats near each gate and with most flights delayed due to
the Day 1 chaos, it was already crowded!!
Reaching the Airport : On a saturday morning it took me a good 1 hr 45 mins from my house in HSR Layout to BIAL. This was thanx to the Cab driver avoiding the Outer Ring Road and instead taking me via Kmangala, Inner Ring Road, Indira Nagar, Bypanahalli and Banaswadi. Accoring to him the number of signals on ORR will slow you down. From Hebbal Junction the airport is around 22 KM. The road is good and wide, however there are 5 traffic signals between Hebbal and Yelhanka, which has the potential to slow down traffic esp. during peak hours.
There is a security check at the entrance to the trumpet flyover which u need to take to turn from Hyderabad road to BIAL. Not sure if it was just for the inaugral day or a routine affair.
The road from there to the terminal is good. However a lot of finishing touches still need to be done.
The first structures you see are the fuel stations and the cargo terminal, and finally the terminal. Parking is further ahead.
At the Airport:
Disemabrking on the kerb was not a problem. There was a line at the entrance as only 1 entrance was open with two security guys checking tickets. At the kerb you have a CCD counter.
BMTC Hamsa non a/c buses
Check-in:
9W check in was a breeze, however my friend who travelled DN told me tht the DN check in was a mess. However I feel the check in counters will not be able to handle the current peak load.
Security Check:
Post check-in you need to take the escalator/stairs up to level 1 for security check and boarding.
Security check is a huge improvement!! Well organized and well designed, the check points are staggered, so that they can fit in more points in lesser area. Not much time taken here.
Boarding Lounge:
The first thing that greets you post security, are an array of shopping options - sweets, shoopers stop, La Moda, Barista, cookie man et-al!! Looks a bit like SIN from this angle!!
However the boarding area itself is a huge huge huge disappointment!!!
Crowded gates
To add to the chaos, the departure board, some how seemed to be stuck at 10 AM and did not show any further updates beyond that!!
The "non-functioning" departure board!!
Plus there was only one functioning loo for all the passengers. For a supposedly world class airport, not a good beginning!!
The boarding process itself was very chaotic, with the boarding agents being new, flights being delayed and typical Day 1 mess..
Chaos at the gate...
Our flight was boarding via buses and we too the steps to level 0. With the increase in the jet bridges, the number of buses seem to have gone down. 9W had its buses along with BMTC ones run by DN. IT buses were missing (dunno why.. but i saw lotsa IT/DN buses ferrying staff from n to BIAL on my way to the airport) Also seen were BMTC volvo buses spray painted to white sporting BIAL logoes..
Jetbridges at BIAL
It feels really strange, travelling in a bus in BLR, with no other building in view!! The Nandi Hills, though provide a great backdrop!!
Its 3 in the morning now... stopping rt now.. will provide more pics in a later post...
TO BE CONTINUED..
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
damn!!
after rework
Cleaned up HAL
Actually looking at the pics Naveen has posted - I felt we have just cleaned up HAL - damn - its crowded and chaotic - I feel the entry doors are so small - I wish they had built a common public village with food courts like all other airports - what a letdown...
Being a die hard optimist I can only hope Mr Brunner is seriously considering a total redesign of the 2nd phase to accomodate everything that we are missing.. If he calls BIAL is modelled on Zurich Airport (then thats a lie) - then its a shame because Zurich airport is very good though it looks like a factory from above - its truly world class. I am happy that we have something to boast off called BIA but very unhappy to note that we have something that is totally short of expectations.
Departure Info
Just wanted to know, if there is enough space for visitors at the departure lounge who come to drop of their relatives/friends at the new airport. I have read about the arrival lounge and seems like its spacious enough and do they still have that rule that once the passenger checks in he/she can't come out to meet their relatives/friends which was the process at HAL Airport for international passengers.
Mohan
The "teething" excuse - hope not for long
So, I had my first experience as a user of the airport last night. Went there to pick up parents. Observations, split into two obvious categories
Airport itself
- Parking system had collapsed last night. The electronic boom gates etc were either not working (from what I could gather from the attendant) or were 'stuck'. There was a big crowd before parking-1, with no communication to those stuck 20-25 cars behind. Parking-2 seemed open, but same problem with Praking-3. As a result, the only working entry gate at parking-3 had huge backup, which in turn blocked the terminal exit lane. However, a tow truck was trying to keep things organized. May be the heavy rains tested their wirings and exposed equipment, but I certainly thought the parking nightmares of HAL would be past. Hopefuly soon.
- Once in the parking area, ample spaces. But please, put up some markers to help us remember where we parked our cars (A, B, C, D like pillars). And, though it seemed a bit far, I didn't mind walking from parking-1 to the arrival area. A tip for readers - parking-3 will be preferred by all as its the closest to arrival hall. So don't ever go there. Parking-2 would work the best.
- We (Bangaloreans, Indians) don't like driving one behind another in lanes, right? Result - chaos at parking entry and exit gates. Morons amongst us should hopefuly learn pretty soon, or else, BIAL will need to police more.
- Arrival area. Why no chairs to sit? Drinking water? I fail to understand this. Folks were sitting on the ground waiting for arrivals. BIAL, please. Put up seating for about 80-100 people in the outside kerbside hall. You wont lose a thing in doing that, you have the space. And planes do run late, making near and dear ones spend time waiting at the kerbside hall.
- Parents had to wait for 45 mins to get their baggage. Recalling the talk we had with BIAL, (system of RFID tags for baggage at check-in time etc), may be that they have tuned baggage handling for departures, not arrivals.
- Noticed that the departure entrance too was choked, meaning, there are 4-5 doors, but only two were kept open. This sort of defeats the things BIAL had told us about "free flowing design" - come in, check in, walk up to the gate - all without crowding anywhere. Why not keep all doors open? One CISF man should be enough per door, don't need 2/3 of them per door.
Connectivity
- Couldn't help notice that buses from BIA to the city were running full, but crowd was thinner in the buses towards BIA.
- NH7 is wide, well surfaced. But signage and drainage is not there yet. There was flooding under an overpass. And two cabs had gone belly up in that flood (cops were on the job). I was shocked to see that. Need more neon signages, it was tough to drive in the night + rain. Saw a few cars fly over the 3-4 road humps NH7 has.
- But despite the small niggles, NH7 can be it. Don't really need that separate expressway. Couple of bridges over NH7 to make traffic/people cross over, and NH7 can easily become the 'corridor' required for cars and buses.
- Took me 40-45 minutes from Yeswantpur/Iskcon area to BIA via BEL/Hebbal. Movement was slow till Hebbal flyover. And it took 50 minutes back from BIA to Whitefield. ORR was empty in the night, that helped. But if ORR can indeed be made signal free, well fenced and well patrolled, 50-55 minutes should be possible during the day as well.
Conclusion
So this is all for now. Conclusions? Two of them:
- Use BIA to push public transport. Hebbal to city-south - dedicated bus lanes will eliminate a lot of taxis and private cars. Hebbal to east/west via ORR - if this can be made into a "corridor" with fencing and minimum signals, buses should run well in mixed traffic. If this is note done, pretty soon, there will be demands for a park & ride system near Hebbal flyover - which, I anyway think is a valid one.
- BIA - you probably have a month or so to get over the "teething trouble" excuse. In return for putting up with connectivity hassles, we all will expect minimum time to be spent on other things at the airport - parking, walking, checking in, deplaning, and getting the baggage and walking out. A Praja member witnessed an aircraft taking 30-35 minutes from landing to aerobridge-docking. Add 40 minutes of baggage arrival time. 5 minutes to walk to the bus. totals 70-80 minutes. Don't know how you will do it BIAL, but this should consistently be not more than 20-25 minutes (landing to BMTC bus with my luggage).
Will soon be experiencing a departure. More after that.Need to get their act together QUICKLY
My two cents
Start up : It appears that BIAL has underestimated the problems associated with a start-up. That apart they (BIAL management) seem to be invisible at the airport. You cannot leave passengers stranded whether at the car-park or at baggage or at departure. It makes people even more angry. Behaving like the proverbial ostrich will not help.
Design and construction : I hope they have really thought through this. When we went on our visit, the departure lounge did not seem adequate to me atleast. BIAL has probably underestimated the impact of uncertain travel times into its design. People are probably coming in 2-3 hrs earlier just to be safe. There are no passenger amenities before security. So there are probably more people beyond security than design. (My hypothesis). Baggage handling is another area where they should have over designed rather than be too close to optimal.
Service Level agreements : All aspects of the operations should have SLAs that get tracked and a scorecard put in place. Passengers should know what to expect - 5 mins for first bag on belt e.g., no more than 10 mins wait for a taxi, no more than 10 mins in check-in queue at peak hour, etc etc.
I would not write off BIAL as early as this. But if they don't get their act together quickly, I would begin to have questions about their expertise.
I will be using BIAL more than I would like to over the next 15 months. Will keep praja posted.
Srivathsa
Drive safe. It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.
BMTC service to BIAL-personal observation
cant always tell
Two more BIAL experiences from friends one good one bad
Two reports from close friends. Both of who are seasoned international travellers. The negative one is from a person who used to be on an international flight every two days, like me. Except he came to Bangalore twice a week, and I used to come once a week.
I can only assume that since the BA flight was at 4:30am, and there is very little pressure on the airport at that time, things were running smooth. The second report, is of a Sunday arrival.
-------------
Dear Devesh,
I was one of the few to be among the first to land at the new airport and thought would share with you the experience. For the first time, I felt proud coming back home as the swankyness of the terminal is astounding. The teething problems we had (British Airways flight arriving at 4.30 am on the 24th) was a delay in the aerobridge being connected (15 mins) and a slight delay in the baggage arrival (20 mins). Otherwise, everything was great (there were 2 flights which landed together) and immigration was efficient. Customs were like abroad with no queries and the walk to the parking area was smooth. At that time, it took me under an hour to reach Koramangala. The only major problem is the lack of lights on the highway which makes the road trip verrrrry scarrrry. In fact saw a horrific accident which would be the result of no lights. Saw lots of Vajra buses plying at that hour, though some had just a couple of passengers.
Cheers and best wishes,
---------------------------
Hi Devesh
Good Morning
Just want to share my experience of my last evening flight landed at 9.50PM SQ 502 from Singapore - As you know am returning from Sydney and I prefer be last in landing at new airport... however the reality bites. Experienced across major airports in the globe our BIAL is an experience of difference....
Our flight had to wait >30 mts for parking slot after landing - reasons local flights occupied the parking and have to wait... no time provided from ATC, after 30+ minutes we got the slot - Immigration - good and spacious - looking pretty good but the finishing work yet to complete ....
Waited > 1+ hour for luggage - the little ones were suffering - no announcement - no facilitation for such long duration - why the luggage has taken such a long time ? No one to answer. Could see excellent luggage belts across and looking good but airport needs to follow good practices.
Came out at 11.45 PM - the situation is no different than our old airport - total mess - the indicator boards are of no use - wondering what may happen to new people coming to our city!!! - the info counter of Karnataka is of no help, the security at gate were friendly - Understand there is lack of support services, no taxi. We had to find out ourselves or wait. "It may come" was the standard answer. Who could do that at night without knowing the end result - no facilities. Have walked out and checked the taxi, Volvo (200/- per person.... something of the sort) and other options (no hire taxi or auto) ended up in negotiating with Hertz for 1750/- ... a costly experience.
The drive home took at night 12 is 50 mts guess 40+ km imagine the day may be 2+ hours - DO I prefer to travel for any short distance may be not - first the roads are not good, traffic we know is mad, no discipline in driving.
Just like to share and may prefer to have HAL for local flights, if not atleast for short duration flights!! What do you say?
Cheers in your efforts.
-----------------------Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
Please - stick to the topic
Sticking to the thread, on this thread means - first hand user experiences as much as possible.
We have discussed BIAL issues to death, no problem with that though. But we risk turning off readers if we don't stop beating the drum on every other thread. Members have full freedom to create separate threads for their topics.
Watching and then carefully moving around comments takes time. Please respect our time and post material/comments relevant to the discussion/action threads in question.
[This note was written while pruning Devesh's comment about BIAL capacity etc. This thread isn't the place]
Will be traveling next week - will keep you posted
Devesh,
Am traveling towards the latter half of next week. If stability has not set in by then, I would concede that we are not in good shape.
Srivathsa
Drive safe. It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.
Trouble continues
Teething problems
We don't have to be so paranoid about the "Teething" problems faced at the BIA. Recently I was in Heathrow T5 (3 days after it opened), you should have seen the choas there, the lagguage was all over the place and there was flight delays amounting more than 14 hrs. It took at least 1 month for BAA to stablize the system. So, I am sure the BIA "issues" will be sorted out in 15 days and system will stabilize.
Prasad
What worries me, is the fact
What worries me, is the fact that a bunch of amatuers are handling some of the most important aspects of the airport.
Situations
1
Amatuers handling Aerobridges
" .“When it did reachus,the personnel operating it couldnot attach it properly to the aircraft. The employees were so amateur,”said Ms Pauli.
2
Calling on the BIA authorities to act fast, Ms Beena further said herwoes did not end there. “While Iwas waiting for my husband toalight, I went into the rest roo monly to find it water logged. There were no tissues on the roll. No mop. A maid was cleaning the floor with a cloth. This is not expected from a new international airport,” she added.
This is a sin. Toilet water logged????
Not enough buses from the tarmac to the Terminal. The drivers dont know where to take the alighted passengers.
I can understand issues with baggages, but others have no excuses.
so much for experience
{removed]
Stick to the thread please - first hand experiences as much as possible, or pointed discussions around experiences posted here.
plane went missing at BIAL...
First hand experience
Excerpts from Mysorean's blog here.
Also a more detailed description if you visit the blog.
-Shastri
-Shastri
On Tarmac Goofups
+++++ DISCLAIMER+++++
I have no intend to add more fuel to the BIAL Thread nor do i want to hold this info back as there may be some lessons to be Learnt
+++++++++++++++++++
BIAL folk if you are reading this please look at it as constructive suggestions on what to fix.
I wish to share with you some photos that will show you one of the reasons why the flights seem to be getting delayed.
These set of pictures were taken on Sunday 25th May 2008 (second day of operation)
Please hover the mouse to read the time stamps
One of my friends said ... "The episode you shot is both sad an hilarious at the same time. :)"
-- Praveen Sundaram AkA PhotoYogi
PS:Regular posters on this thread please post on how to *fix* this issue rather than saying how bad this sucks!
-- PhotoYogi
This should be part of normal operation.
It should be a pretty normal case making sure that the slot where an incoming flight would go is vacant. I am not sure what to say regarding fixing this issue. Is it possible that the people handling the task of telling the aircrafts where to go after landing are not familiar with the layout of the parking slots (but this should not be the case, as such info should be automated).
Or the other possiblity is that the ground staff handling the aero-bridges or ladders are not quick enough, and because of that the time to deplane the passengers and luggage is more than what is expected. The staff should be given more traning and more dry runs should happen in relatively low traffic times (in afternoons ?) to enable them to work faster and reduce delays.
The other possibility is that BIAL doesnt have sufficient slots for parking of aircrafts for deplaning of passengers and luggage and hence the wait. If this is the case, we are in for some serious trouble and some workaround needs to be thought of soon. Probably expansion work should start off right away.
People more familiar with the capacity aspects of the BIAL can probably comment.
http://clean-and-green.bl...
Practice and training makes perfect
Praveen,
There is no rocket science to this. They need to draw a fishbone (Ishikawa) diagram for the 5Ms involved - Man, Machine, Method, Measurement and Materials to understand where they are going wrong. Doing a why-why (root cause analsis) on each symptom is the way to go. This is needed only if this continues for more than a week.
Given the nature of the work - the most likely culprits are man - inadequate training on the specific equipment. This is a standard and new Machine and the Method would not differ.
This whole operation should take no more than 2-3 minutes.
Srivathsa
Drive safe. It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.
10:30am is not peak time
cant always tell
TS - Time of the picture is 10:30am which is not peak time. But you are right.
It goes back to my point, when I was harping about capacity. http://aviation.deveshaga... in this article, I have used BIAL production file of Feb 2008 as the basis. At that time BIAL was projecting 448 flights per day. Right now they are choking at 341 flights.
What will happen when we touch 448 as projected ? We should hit 550 flights within 2years. What then ?
We now have ample proof and advance notice. Do you see any signs of expansion ?
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
Back to IATA
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
The Bangalore International Airport - The Day One Experience
Courtsey - http://desicritics.org/2008/05/27/115703.php
The Bangalore International Airport - The Day One Experience
I was to land in Bangalore on 24th April morning 8:45 AM, and this turned out to be the exact date on which Bangalore’s new international airport was to commence operations. To be honest, I was sincerely hoping that I land at the old airport as it is a hop. skip, and jump from my place. And the closer you were to the old Bangalore, the farther you are from the new airport in Devanahalli. But now that I have landed at BIAL on day one and got comfortably back home, it feels good to be a part of the history. There have been so many debates, arguments, views and controversies around opening of BIAL that I want to share the experience if being there on Day 1.
As we were landing at 8:30 AM on Saturday morning, all those who were returning home wanted to peep out and have a glimpse of the new airport from the top. While landing at HAL, I could always see my apartment complex, and a whole lot of other identifiable landmarks. At BIAL, it was a vast empty space all around and then there were two airstrips in the middle of nowhere. The first look at airport from the plane window did not give a great impression, it looked like a building still under construction. It is definitely much bigger and better than HAL, but is it big enough to take care of the potential air traffic of Bangalore in coming years, I am not sure. As we landed through an aerobridge, which used to be a rarity at HAL, it felt nice to go through an absolutely new aerobridge still to be adorned with advertisements or any other kind of messages or notices. As we walked out, the place looked a little deserted, but none the less everyone carried a curious look on their faces as they walked towards the immigration counters.
The counters look ported from the old airport, not very different and I think they could have been better designed. They look like counters in old time banks and are situated too close to each other. The yellow line to separate the queues and the counters is yet to be drawn. The number of counters was good enough to clear most passengers within 5-6 minutes. I spoke to the immigration officer who was excited to be at the new airport. When I asked him is he happy about being in the new facility he said, 'Its day 1 - lets see how it goes’.
The toilets were a big disappointment. Less than 9 hours of operations and the toilets were dirty, filthy and it appeared that they had not been cleaned at all since being opened. The down escalator was not working, but there were people attending to it and it started working in about 30 mins or so. Baggage carousels are well designed, a lot of people can stand by them and collect their baggage. While immigration was finished in 5 mins, we had to wait at least an hour before the carousel started moving, which everyone applauded loudly. I was lucky to get my baggage very fast after it started moving. While waiting for the baggage, I moved around to see the airport and strolled around a few retail outlets, most of which were still in the setup mode and were fixing things. The prices mentioned were in dollars and I wonder why.
The whole airport carries a resemblance to the Infosys campus, especially the washrooms. Similar designs and materials have been used, probably because of the Mr Narayana Murthy being at the helm of affairs at both places…There was a huge board saying ‘I came here First’ with the lovely BIAL logo, open to everyone to sign on it. It felt great to sign on it. If you happen to see it, look out for my signature right on I.
As I came out of the airport, the view outside was almost similar to the one at HAL, loads and loads of taxi guys with placards waiting for their customers. It is when you go past them that you are able to see the other options to get back home. Thanks to the very active association of my apartment complex, I knew that I have to take the Electronic City bus to reach home. The Volvo bus station is about 200-300 mts from the arrival gate. You can take the trolley right up to the bus. The conductor helped me load the luggage on the bus. The buses are well designed to carry lots of luggage and can seat 31 persons. The conductor had a small machine around his neck which he used to issue tickets. The ticket to Sarjapur road junction on ORR costs Rs 150/-. You can also take taxis, which are flat priced at Rs 15/- per km. For most of us living in south Bangalore, I guess the bus is a better option than taxis, especially for women traveling alone as its one long stretch of lonely roads. The bus was comfortable and it took me 1 hour and 20 mins to cover approx imately 50 kms. It was a Saturday, so it might take a little longer on weekdays and during peak hours.
I think the Volvo buses are going to be a huge hit, provided there are enough of them. With only a capacity of 31 persons, we would need a lot of them. Buses are a good option to come back from the airport, but to go there they may end up serving only those who board them from the starting point. This would mean we need many more starting points or routes for the buses. Another idea may be exploring Taxi pooling to and from huge apartment complexes, organizations and hotels. This can reduce pressure on everything: roads, environment and pockets.
In my opinion it would take another 3-4 months by the time everything smoothens out, and the airport wears its planned swanky look. Overall, it was a nice experience to be there on Day 1, far better than what most newspapers made it out to be.
Quick one - departure experience
Took the 4 PM KF to Pune on Tuesday. Have already mentioned the bus experience in another post. 3:20 pm isn't really peak time, but there still was a small queue on the two open departure entrances. (why can't they have all 4 open all the time?). Once inside, I walked up to the security check gate, about 4-5 of them were operational, with plenty of CISF folks manning them. 3:20 pm at the airport bus stand, and 3:30 pm I was all done, ready for departure. Nice.
Naturally lit departure hall area has a good feel to it. I hate to see energy getting wasted in those 24 hour artificially lit malls and closed spaces that have become the symbol of 'modernity' these days.
Rest rooms were clean (Either I got lucky, or their cleaning logistics have fallen in place). And the floor was continuously getting cleaned as well.
But, but, but. 3:30 pm isn't really a crowded hour. Still, the departure hall had a crowded feeling to it. And I couldn't help notice that all the seating is concentrated near the aerobridge gates. There are open spaces down below just before those checkin counters, then again just before the security gates, and then again in between those retail shops. They got to distribute the crowd around by keeping only those who have a departure in next 30 mins in the departure hall. Rest of the folks could hang around in other 'currently empty' areas. I think that the departure hall seating area could easily get a crowded feel during the peak hours (8-9 AM, 6-8 PM I guess).
PA system has a lot of echo. Got to tune the acoustics if they want passengers to hear announcements right.
Last crib is about the flight delay. Ours was delayed by 30 mins due to 'air traffic congestion'. Hope the 'congestions' won't continue beyond the 'teething' days. Because as I said, in return for the long commute time to the airport (and buying the original 'distant airport will help de-congest' theory), I want everything else to be really really quick and on time. Or else, HAL is waiting in the wings :)
Will add some cellphone pics to this comment. But no time right now, later.
Cargo is a bigger disaster than I thought
I would not like to say much. Please visit my blog for the pictures of the visit on 28-May-2008. I am sure you will shudder.
If the airport fails industry and commerce ?
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
Where does the cargo come from?
Devesh,
Just a question - where does most of the cargo that is dispatched from BIAL come from? I am assuming primarily from Peenya Industries and other industrial areas such as Jigani etc...
Cargo is from all over
I finally managed to upload all the pics on my blog. http://aviation.deveshaga....
Export cargo comes from all over, primarily Southern Karnataka, and parts of Tamil Nadu. Similarly import cargo.
In front of me, the Head of Cargo for a major south-east asian airline, was openly discussing with the AI-SATS people, "if you want, I will hold all cargo shipments to Bangalore for next 2 days, just clear this mess".
I have said before, an airport plays a far more vital role in a regions economy than merely transporting passengers. Everyday the AI-SATS warehouse should transit at least Rs. 100 Cr worth of cargo. Think of the losses being sustained by Bangalore's industry.
Thanks to this mess, Jet Airways has already embargoed cargo on their flights ex-Bangalore for the foreseeable future. Someone told me, that 2 days ago, the AI-SATS guys put an urgent consignment, booked on Jet, of blood samples being sent for testing, on an Indian Airlines flight instead.
Just a simple statistic. Globally, air cargo carries only 1% of global goods, by weight, but 40% by value. In today's globally competitive economy transit time is money. With JIT, cargo looses value each minute it spends in transit. The pressures on timely delivery are enormous.
At the AI-SATS warehouse today, I saw huge cartons of Diesel Fuel Pumps being exported by air. This is a nature of the beast.
Bangalore today is the third highest air cargo port in the country behind Mumbai and Delhi, and has the potential of crossing Delhi within the next 5 years.
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
Cargo Hub - Promise
If I can remember Mr Brunner had always highlighted BIA to become a major Cargo Hub other than Southern Hub for India. But I hope the concerned consessionaries get their act right to complete all the incomplete buildings.. Again the same question where did Rs.2500Cr go if we did not complete all these..
Devesh - in reality can they complete all the incomplete buildings in a short period of time? What is the reality?
Cargo Handling at BIAL
Devesh,
Many thanks for the pictures & description about the sorry state of cargo handling facilities at BIAL - unkempt & messy.
I think there are some airports in USA & also at Singapore where there are remote facilities for customs & packaging, where all formalities are completed off-site & the packages are delivered to the airlines directly.
If the ICD (Inland Container depot) at whitefield, which already has the necessary infrastructure, with customs, etc, can be utilised for air services as well, can it be used to bolster capacities & avoid the long chain of activities on-site at the BIAL ?
Also, there are existing railway lines that connect whitefield with devanahalli. With a small track extension, can these be transported by rail instead of the row upon row of trucks directly to the airport ?
Security will be an issue, but I think it can be managed with scanners at the airport just before loading packages onto airplanes, similar to passenger baggage.
What are your thoughts on this ?
Cargo Hub
Hi SS
BIAL cargo facilities are a far cry than what they should be. The Menzies terminal is about 90% ready. The AI-SATS is only 60%. and will take at least 3 months, IMHO. May be they need a 3rd terminal.
I am willing. :)
In fairness, the Menzies terminal is still miles ahead of the miserable excuses of warehouses that MSIL offered, and I heard whispers that some people were trying to bring MSIL in. I hope no one at BIAL makes that mistake.
AI-SATS is being bogged down by the bureaucratic mindset of both AI and SATS.
Given time, BIAL can definitely become a major cargo hub. I am confident in BIAL team as well as Menzies and AI-SATS.
However, what astounds me, is that we are blaming the government for the 2 month delay. We should be thanking them for giving BIAL these additional 2 months, to build up the infrastructure. Can you imagine the total disaster that would have occurred if the airport opened up 2 months earlier.
Certain things BIAL can easily take charge of and resolve. Security and policing. It will reduce some of the chaos.
And please enforce the 10 minute rule of Government, Policy, and Army vehicles.
-----------------------
Regards
Devesh R. Agarwal
Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
cargo