Route Maps for BMTC - Phase I Open for discussion

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BusPublic Transport

Inviting opinions on Phase I - for Bus route Maps project.

What could we set as the criteria for selecting the bus stops for Phase 1 : Approx number of stops as per BMTC are close to 3000, ( might be approx figure)

Few ideas which were discussed on Saturday meeting were :

  1. Just for reference - Phase 1 could be 10% of the total number to begin with. with Phase 2 as 50% and Phase 3 as 40%.
  2. Have a list of "most used" and "least used" stops within the city in terms of commuters traffic and pick top 50 or top 100 out of these.
  3. Or pick the top 15-20 prime areas in bangalore - like Jayanagar, JP Nagar, Banashankari, Indiranagar, Koramangla, Electronic city, Hebbal, Hennur, Yelahanka, Yeshwantpur, Whitefield, Sarjapur etc..
  4. any other suggestions??

Ritu

 

Comments

Great idea

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From the bus user's point of view (though not in Bangalore), I think certain consistency should be required in this. Like focusing initially on certain areas or bus routes of the city. Since the point is to eventually have such maps on all stops, this should be the feeling one gets also from the initial run. That it's not simply one fancy bus stop that has gotten one fancy map.

Naturally, the intention of the map project shall be clearly marked on the map itself. It is an advertisement of itself! And it could be a hook to get people into Praja - use that space wisely.

One more thing to consider - maintenance. Especially if the maps are being pushed for from a citizen point of view, the responsibilities of who is going to keep them tidy and up to date must be defined.

If this gets through, it might be the first such effort anywhere, where users are documenting bus routes for themselves (or maybe I misunderstood the concept?). That's kind of cool. Us making the city easier for ourselves.

I have some friends making electric bus route helpers for the undeveloped megacities (pilot in Lima, Peru). Maybe I could ask them to be a sponsor once this gets going.

- asko

We're developing a light weight automated transport solution, especially suitable for Indian urban challenges. Initially launched in April 2010 in Delhi, we're progressing with CAD design and strength simulations in 2011

 the responsibilities of who

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 the responsibilities of who is going to keep them tidy and up to date must be defined.

This is the elephant in the room

Bus stop selection Criteria!

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First of all, great effort from you and others. Really appreciate your efforts.

On bus stop locations, I am always concered on efforts targetted only in certain localities leaving out a large number of localities whose resident are the most dependent on BMTC service. Neither BMTC nor our urban transport planners cares at address this lopsided planning. Can we unifromly span this effort all over the city?

How Helsinki ran a pilot

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I would suggest to make a "lean startup strategy" for this project. It means: fast initial rollout. Easy change of plans and/or map layout, technology etc. User feedback. "Fail fast". 

Some ideas:

- have the map PDF available on the Internet. This way people who don't have it can still print it out and keep it in the pocket.

- heck, have it printable so that they can attach it as a "bill" (Indian for poster, I assume) on the bus stops themselves! They can laminate it etc. if they wish. Or simply place a revised version on top of the earlier one.

- have feedback form or similar for people to suggest changes to the map, on the same page where it is downloadable

This can be done parallel to the nice, neat, official (approved by BMTC) maps.

Even on the printouts, there should be an email address and/or telephone number for people to contact. That is, responsibility behind the "bill".

- asko

We're developing a light weight automated transport solution, especially suitable for Indian urban challenges. Initially launched in April 2010 in Delhi, we're progressing with CAD design and strength simulations in 2011

 Can we unifromly span this

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 Can we unifromly span this effort all over the city?

Not if we dont address the elephant in the room

Volvo schematic route map

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Volvo schematic route maps are already available in printed form, some Praja members did this more than a year ago. copies should be available with both BMTC & Volvo. Why not start with using them on the stops along the route with a "you are here" arrow based on which stop it is pasted at? Atleast this way you can choose the stops along the routes where the map is already available.You may have to add the non-volvo routes that stop here to this map

Dear Ritu   I'm from The New

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Dear Ritu

I'm from The New Indian Express. I need to talk to you about a related story. How can I contact you?

Reg Bus route maps

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Hi, Thanks all for so many ideas and thoughts..what is decided right now is to have BMTC take charge of the maps and their updates and frequency of updates. Since it is better that they have control over the situation, since its something new. the idea of having internet versions is good, but responsibility of sticking, installing would still remain with BMTC to begin with, eventually when the process is streamlined , we have a robust self sustaining process, we can definitely implement the idea of citizens themselves taking charge...

Hi arcchid - u can mail me at ritu_s_w@yahoo.com

 

 

Here is a sample from elsewhere.

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Just googled for our subject. 

Points to Note:

a) Has map of area covered for a single route.

b) Has stop numbers

c) Has important places marked in blue

d) Has a clear legend

Further  we can include

a) URL for feedback

b) Publishing and next update details

With thanks to the source .

 

" My mantra to public bodies=> Enable->Educate->Enforce. Where does  DDC  fit?"

@Ritu

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It seems City Express newspaper has done some work on display maps at a bus stop. Kindly try to reach someone there, which may help us. Here is a news piece which reports about this.

 

 

" My mantra to public bodies=> Enable->Educate->Enforce. Where does  DDC  fit?"

Ready to contribute?

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We need your contribution for Section 5 of the requirement document. If this document is ready BMTC will have basis to start with. Send a direct message or private message to get access to this document as contributor.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UYnUuPbB4TxBU_pxCyGs-r8J0WhAJTqDtCNIj4xmIVc/edit?hl=en_US

" My mantra to public bodies=> Enable->Educate->Enforce. Where does  DDC  fit?"

Not detailed enough

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This document skimps on the details & leaves too much leeway in design, go thru this report & pick up the details and include in the document. Fonts, typefaces, visibility all matter. Dont leave too much for guesswork by the vendor.

PS: Section 2.3 is what you are probably going after.

@idontspam

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Thanks and feel free to edit the document in any section, meanwhile I will go through the link you provided. I have run out of matter :-D. Need everyone's help.

" My mantra to public bodies=> Enable->Educate->Enforce. Where does  DDC  fit?"

We need your contribution for

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We need your contribution for Section 5 

Other sections also need substantial work. Are you guys in control of the eitire document or just working on section 5?

Yes, All section need much work

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The draft I created is just a skeleton document. Yes, you are right all sections need a lot of work. Please feel free to contribute any/all sections. Much help needed.

I just gave section 5 as a pointer , to start with

" My mantra to public bodies=> Enable->Educate->Enforce. Where does  DDC  fit?"

Copyrighted doc?

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was going to make some changes & noticed that this is a BMTC cpoyright document. I would prefer to work on a Praja owned document with a creative commons attibution license. BMTC can use whatever they want from that document with attribution. I have lost your number please PM me so I can speak to you about this.

@idontspam

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Actually that tag was put by me. Feel free to use the creative commons tag. Just as a copy right placeholder I have put that. Feel free to change it.

" My mantra to public bodies=> Enable->Educate->Enforce. Where does  DDC  fit?"

updated formatting

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Updated the format and add Creative Commons License

" My mantra to public bodies=> Enable->Educate->Enforce. Where does  DDC  fit?"

New Reporter at The New Indian Express

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Hi all!

I have joined the newspaper recently and BMTC is one of the beats I will be covering. I can be reached at avinbhat@hotmail.com. Do kindly keep me in the loop for any support we may provide.

 

Regards

Avinash Bhat

For BMTC: Pls. create & print BMTCinfo.com/FindMyRoute on buses

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Dear Praja.in and Friends,

 

Bangalore Metropolitan Transport Corporation already provides at http://www.BMTCinfo.com/site/BSGoogleTransit.jsp - in conjunction with Google Transit (a sub-feature of Google Maps) ) - a very useful, e-friendly and eco-friendly 'Bus Route Finder'.

There are many people (including many environmentally-minded ones) including Citizens and Tourist/Other Visitors (both Indian & foreign) who are not yet aware of this very useful fact and of the www.BMTCinfo.com website address, let alone the www.BMTCinfo.com/site/BSGoogleTransit.jsp web address/URL.

While Bengaluru buses (whether AC or not) are still largely powered by non-green energy sources (unlike New Delhi where all/nearly all the buses now run on natural-gas (which is much less polluting than diesel/petrol), thanks to the Supreme Court ruling), a bus is still less polluting per person than most other forms of road transportation (and helps ease traffic congestion too, among other things).

I have a humble suggestion/'Open Letter' for BMTC that might - in at least a small way - help the environment, ease traffic-jams, etc. by encouraging more Citizens and more Tourist/Other Visitors - both Indian and foreign - to use BMTC buses, including the AC ones with more comfortable seating:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear BMTC,

I am writing to make a humble, eco-friendly suggestion:

(1) If easily possible, please print the following, in Kannada, English and - space permitting - in Hindi too, on all 4 sides of each BMTC bus (and also on Bus-stops and Bus-Terminals):

    "     Go Greener. Go BMTC. Find My Route at:

           www.BMTCinfo.com/site/BSGoogleTransit.jsp         "

 

Or, dear BMTC:

(2) If easily possible, please create the much shorter, much more self-explanatory, intuitive and easier to remember and/or write down, sub-directory/URL/web-page/address:

     www.BMTCinfo.com/FindMyRoute

 

and copy the web page content/programming code from www.BMTCinfo.com/site/BSGoogleTransit.jsp to this new position.

Then, if easily possible, please print the following, in Kannada, English and - space permitting - in Hindi too, on all 4 sides of each BMTC bus (and also on Bus-stops and Bus-Terminals):

 

     "     Go Greener. Go BMTC. Please Use:

           www.BMTCinfo.com/FindMyRoute            "

 

Dear BMTC, many thanks for your very valuable time and kind consideration.

 

Respectfully,

GreenMicroEnergy, a Bengaluru citizen

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dear Praja.in and Friends, many thanks for your very valuable time and kind consideration. If you agree with my suggestion, please feel free to copy & forward this email to your relevant contacts and/or to post it on your website.

Respectfully,

GreenMicroEnergy, a Bengaluru citizen

 

 

www.BMTCinfo.com/site/BSGoogleTransit.jsp "

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I tried this website, but not able to find my route.

K.V.Pathy

I tried my route1 and the

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I tried my route1 and the suggestion the site gave, needs me to walk for 5 km in total :(

I guess only volvos and G1-12 buses are included in the google transit right now! 

I got to know of a few new BMTC routes.. Never really noticed 335EP

 

335EP Majestic (KBS) Majestic (KBS) Mayo Hall, HAL, Manipal Hospital, AECS Layout, ITPL, Hopefarm, Varthur Kodi, Siddapura, Bellandur gate, Marathalli, Richmond Road

Wonder if anyone know the timings near ITPL.. I have a tough time trying to figure out the route on the map...

 

319CT and 335ET are two new volvos touching whitefield TTMC.. the routes seems to be designed to make better use of the TTMC...

some details here

http://beberibang.blogspot.in/2012/01/new-bmtc-volvo-route-319ct.html

Pls. also post directly to bmtcinfo.com/site/BSComplaints.jsp

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Fortunately, BMTC already has a page where comments/suggestions/questions/complaints can be directly sent to them:

 

     http://BMTCinfo.com/site/BSComplaints.jsp

 

Maybe friends posting BMTC-related suggestions/questions on Praja.in, could also kindly send these to BMTC too via this page/form. Thanks.

BMTC website

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I have posted the following on their website. Hope to get their response (my previous experience is they do not respond).

"On your web site Route search information is incomplete as the routes of majority of buses i.e. ordinary & pushpak are not included. Please include this long pending information.
Please publicise the new routes as and when these are introduced thro the news papers.
Thanks.
K.V.Pathy'

Dear K.V. Pathy, good work. Please keep it up! :)

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If enough/E-nough people keep sending them suggestions (especially repeats of the same suggestion) they might - hopefully - start listening.

One may also send suggestions via the many other e-paths/Feedback-Forms that - very fortunately - most Karnataka/Bengaluru Government/Public Sector bodies already have, but that many Citizens do NOT yet know the exact details/e-location of.

As an e-starting point, please visit:

 

    http://karnataka.gov.in

 

And:

 

     http://jnnurm.nic.in/contact-details.html

 

[ Suggestions to JNURM - if implemented - might help not only Bengaluru but also many other Indian Cities/Towns and, possibly even Villages. As a simple example, JNURM could create and display the something like the following URL on all their Buses/other funded properties around India:

 

    www.jnurm.nic.in/FindMyBusRoutesAndNumbers

 

Initially they could do this Independently of BMTC, but ultimately - IN THE LONG TERM - it is probably BETTER/BEST that Government bodies across all levels (Central/State/City, etc.) move towards having a WELL-COORDINATED and WELL INTEGRATED APPROACH (without unnecessary overlap/duplication of effort/time/money/etc.) such as a National 'Find My Bus Routes And Numbers' SINGLE website that is PRECISELY GEO-TARGETED and ultimately making a lot of use of GPS (possibly in conjunction with Google Maps/Google Transit). Maybe something like :-

 

     http://National.gov.in/FindMyBestEcoFriendlyTransitOptions

 

[  Well, actually, probably a shorter, easier to remember and/or write down URL than that  :)    ]

 

-: that is Holistically Integrated across all Green or 'Greener' (less polluting) Options such as - preferably the natural-gas and/or Hybrid powered greener Options such as  Metros/Rail Systems (though these are not (yet) Hybrid options), Buses, Vans, Shared Taxis, Car-Pooling (especially among the " 'Same Apartment Building/Complex' Residents' that one might have good relations with) possibly HOLISTICALLY Co-Ordinated through, for example, Google Groups/Google Calendar/Google Maps/Google Transit, etc.

AND ULTIMATELY WITH QR (Quick Response) CODES PRINTED/DISPLAYED ALONG-SIDE.

{{

A QR code (abbreviated from Quick Response code) is a type of matrix barcode (or two-dimensional code) first designed for the automotive industry. More recently, the system has become popular outside of the industry due to its fast readability and large storage capacity compared to traditional UPC barcodes. The code consists of black modules arranged in a square pattern on a white background. The information encoded can be made up of four standardized kinds ("modes") of data (numeric, alphanumeric, byte/binary, Kanji), or by supported extensions virtually any kind of data.

     ( From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QR_code  }

}}

 

Dear Praja.in, a humble suggestion:  Maybe you could kindly set up a page on your website where the following could be implemented for all your major Suggestions to Government Bodies/News Journalists/Editors, etc.:

This page would allow each (popular among Praja.in Regular Friends and Others) 'Common Collective Petition/Suggestion' to be digitally signed by multiple individuals and organisations, which then will be sent to the relevant Government Bodies AND to the Relevant News Journalists/Editors by a Pre-Specified Date/Time (maybe at an ONLY-one-per-month interval).

It is likely that Karnataka State/Bengaluru Government bodies could be gently directed further along the path to:

 

     Becoming the Best/(among the Best) E-Governance-Friendly AND

     Eco-Friendly State/City/(States/Cities)) not  only in India,

     but also in the World.

 

Dear Praja.in and Friends, keep up the good work and many thanks for your very valuable time and kind consideration. (And many apologies for this very long comment  :)    )

 

 

a long haul

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@greenmicroenergy - while welcoming you to praja.in, I would like to suggest to you to browse through the debates (particularly on BMTC, to begin with, this) a bit more when you will realise that getting through to the government is a far more involved exercise, and even more so is the exercise of getting them to respond. 

Well, there certainly are the exceptions, like here, but who can act only within their limitations.

So, while appreciating your enthusiasm, let me caution you against any expectations of an easy haul. 

Muralidhar Rao

Dear Murali, many thanks for your constructive advice!

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And for 'managing' my E-xpectations!

 

And for bringing them back to the ground/(ground-transport :)  )

 

No more "i-rrational e-xuberance" from me!

 

I apologise for not having browsed the debates and other parts of the Praja.in website sufficiently before posting.

Any progress?

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I am eager to know the progress made in this project. Happy to help out.

- wgwwd : (w)e (g)et  (w)hat  (w)e (d)eserve...so look at yourself first

Hi- apologies for a long hiatus

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Hi,

Actually i have been on and off pitching in this project along with BMTC and last meeting i had with them was during Dec 2010 where it was decided that Phase 1 would be the 335E corridor and the design was in beginning stages, they had assigned a couple of people for the same and they were working on comng with the first set of maps for the 335E corridor.

Somehow the response post these meetings has been extremely dull from BMTC side and whenever i was committed that i will receive a mail, or designs etc on so and so date, i have somehow never received till date, i sent multiple smss and even tried calling but no response.

I am not sure whether it has to do with them being busy or something else.

i am still keen on being part of the project and contribute as much as i can as a volunteer.

Let me start following up again and will revert shortly.

Thanks

Ritu

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