Skip to Content

Jayanagar TTMC Report September 12, 2009

up
151 users have liked.
Traffic

We met at the Jayanagar TTMC at 10 AM. The following were in attendance:-

  1. D. Ravi,
  2. Vinod Shankar,
  3. Murali,
  4. Srivatsava,
  5. Pathy,
  6. Deepak (dvsquare),
  7. PSA,
  8. Shashidhara HL (City Connect)
  9. Sunil Terdalkar (City Connect). 

 Shshidhara and Sunil Terdalkar are from city conncet group of Janagraha. They were invited by Mr. Pathy.

We went round the TTMC and took a lot of pictures. I clicked about 43 out of which I am presenting here a few. The main points I would like to make here are:-

  1. The place was a simple bus stand, much wider and spacious earlier.
  2. Now it is congested and passenger unfriendly.
    1. The central Island for passengers is dangerous. A bad design practice perhaps.
    2. The Malls accessibility to the customers is absent as it looks now.
    3. The sky walk can be connected to the first mall floor.
  3. I believe the present TTMC is funded by JNRUM.
  4. The TTMC which is going to house a couple of Malls may be a sore point, especially in the context of the JNRUM funding.

 

I will be posting some more pictures later as comments. Perhaps I have to Post them through Fliker, which will be more versatile?

Comments

idontspam's picture

 The sky walk

up
93 users have liked.

 The sky walk can be connected to the first mall floor.

Isnt that a bummer? How could they have missed it? Shows how intelligent the planners are. We trust these people with building our city.

The central Island for passengers is dangerous

Islands themselves if used as busstop are not bad. Direct landing to the island from the first floor in conjunction with the skywalk connection from the street would have been very simple but useful solution.

If you post pictures we can see how many more simple things they have missed.

sanjayv's picture

public feedback and JNNURM

up
104 users have liked.

 Isn't public feedback an intgral requirement of JNNURM?  I would bet that with a well designed public feedback session for these projects along with transparency, we would have much better results.  This here is like the India Pakistan partition.  A guy sitting in a room in New Delhi takes a map and draws a line indicating what he thinks is a solution, no matter if the line bisects a village and the village well.

silkboard's picture

Thaks for the pics

up
104 users have liked.

Sorry for bunking today, had a family thing till 12, and would have been too late by then.

Looks like Murali is figuring out East Bangalore there, eyeing a private shuttle proposal for Whitefield or what!?

I will be in the area tomorrwo though, want to observe how the TTMC changes the parking and shoppers dynamics at 4th block.

PSA sir, don't upload all pics - few key ones would do, and can upload them right here. Click on a yellow "Image" icon you would see on the comment toolbar, and then find and click on the "browse server" button. Then on, you should be able to figure how to upload your images. Still a bit hard to upload images here, but you can.

vinod_shankar's picture

key takeways from TTMC visit...

up
101 users have liked.

I will list the key points that i felt good and bad about the TTMC.

Pros:

1. Compared to the previous post, there is sense of spaciousness in the new TTMC@ jayanagar.

2.The signboards  are good and put up at appropriate places.

3.The up ramp and down ramps are wide enough for easy movement for vehicles for parking/exit.

Cons:

1.The exits at the terrace to come down after parking are too small, may result in problems in a emergency situation.  They need to be wide enough.

2.As PSA sir says, the skywalk could have been easily connected to the first floor, still it can be done. 

3.Use of smooth vitrified tiles in the toilets can result in people skidding off.  Should have used anti-skid tiles. The toilet fitting need to be more robust.

4. Use of one more level for parking would have been good,looking at the amount of parking done on the surrounding roads.

5.Inauguarate the TTMC once all the construction work is complete!! Work is still going...

After the TTMC meet,myself, Ravi ,dvsquare and srivathsa took a MetroWalk on the reach-4 portion on RV road constructed by NCC.  We spent a hour so at the metro site discussing and taking pictures.  Will update this in a different blog.

vinod

Vasanth's picture

Multi Level Bus Station needed in TTMCs

up
93 users have liked.

I was of the initial impression that there would be two levels of bus parking atleast in the TTMCs. But, having multilevel bus stations without buses going to the upper level will reduce the space for buses. Ultimate aim should be to have more space for buses in TTMCs. A ramp on the Jain Temple side to the 1st floor for Buses would have added one more level of bus stop doubling the bus handling capacity. Whoever who would have seen the Port Authority of NY or South Station of Boston would have seen how multilevel bus stations are used. Our TTMCs just gives park and ride facility plus the office space and not more than that. NY Port Authority Video:

Naveen's picture

NY Port Authority Terminal

up
105 users have liked.

Vasanth,

I had been in New York as a student & had used buses out of the Port Authority bus terminal regularly. I also travel frequently in & out of New York.

The terminal caters more for inter-state buses & buses bound for upstate New York (proceeding to destinations in NJ & places like Albany, etc). Thus, the volume of buses is very high since it is at a central location (close to Times square), similar to our Subhasnagar KSRTC bus stand.

I don't think TTMCs need such high capacities, though it appears that the Jayanagar TTMC is somewhat cramped for space & could have had two levels.

idontspam's picture

Where are you?

up
100 users have liked.

If this pic was taken at the Jayanagar TTMC why does the map show "you are here" next to the old airport? No wonder Murali looks lost.

murali772's picture

wasted map

up
109 users have liked.

IDS avare'

That is supposed to be the index to tell you what that sign denotes. The contractor used the blank Bellandur tank area to provide it there. The actual marking has been done correctly. But, yes, it can cause some confusion to new comers.

I was looking lost more because, if you want to get an overview of the map, you will have to stand in the middle of the bus drive-way, risking getting run over. From the far kerb, it's not clear enough, and the near kerb is too narrow to allow you to stand properly to get a clear view. Overall, good map (professionally excuted job), but incorrectly located.
 

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

my impressions

up
93 users have liked.

The pictures I took may be accessed here - with battery running out, I could take only four.

My first impressions were that the overall work quality and finishes appeared to be fairly good. But, the pedestrian/ passenger movement/ safety aspects have not been given sufficient attention to. And, like has already been pointed out, taking the skywalk right into the TTMC first-floor area should have been the obvious thing to do, which has been over-looked.

First and foremost, I don't think this can qualify as a TTMC (Traffic and Transit Management Centre). It is just an ordinary bus-stop, with the space above awaiting total commercialisation. One set of buses coming in from Shivajinagar, enter from the East side, and head towards South or North (across the junction); and another set coming in from KGS (West - again, across the junction), have compulsorily to head Southwards. In the reverse direction, the buses don't touch the 'TTMC' at all (In the forward direction also, not all buses seemed to be entering it). I don't think much transitting can happen given this scenario, and consequently, the parking space (on the 3rd floor) is essentially going to be used up by the commercial space lessees (and their employees/ visitors/ clients).

All said and done, this is essentially a 90% commercial, and 10% passenger amenities project, by my reckoning. I expect most other so-termed TTMC's are also going to just that. The argument may be that they can thus cross-subsidise the basic operations, in order to retain the fares low. But, the problem is that they invariably end up as covers for inefficiencies, particularly in monopoly situations.

Further, even as the PRAJA team was at the place, a high level traffic police team landed up there, and seemed to be figuring out solutions to the newly created problems arising out of the TTMC's operations. The traffic signal operations, at the adjoining busy junction, do not appear to have factored in the new kinds of flows. And, the TTMC itself has common entry/ exit points for some of the bus routes, which by themselves can lead to buses blocking each others' paths.

Also, apart from the skywalk linking the shopping complex (which itself should idealy have landed on the first floor), the access for pedestrians from other sides are currently non-existant, with the erstwhile zebra cross markings ending mid-way on the roads. Obviously, very little consultation has happened between the traffic police, BMTC and the architects at the planning stage.     
 

Muralidhar Rao
vinod_shankar's picture

More pictures

up
94 users have liked.

A view through the sky walk

A bike parked right in the bus lane

 

Abuse of JNNURM funds! This  tub is filled with gravel for people to spit.  But i couldn't find any dustbins nearby.

The sky walk, which everyone thought had to have a link to first level of the TTMC. 

sandeepmr's picture

Ped Xing

up
112 users have liked.

I’m looking at the first pic where people are crossing the road midway. I’m sure there are ped xings on both the traffic lights few yards from the TTMC entry/exit. With  all the enduring efforts from the Traffic police et al like BTRAC to make Bangalore a better place to drive, with no discipline from the common man (to use the traffic lights to cross the road) this effort would be never-ending.

 
I might sound harsh and there could be other concerns here, but we always guilt the authorities (which is a good thing to do) for not providing facilities. But when they do, do we abide by the rules? 
psaram42's picture

A link to Picassa album TTMC Jayanagar

up
89 users have liked.

 Here with a link to the photos.

Jayanagar TTMC September 12, 2009
Ravi_D's picture

My take...

up
111 users have liked.

In short - Good concept. Implementation is certainly better than what I would have expected of a government bus-stand a few years back. But there is a lot left to learn.

Examples of lapses are already listed up here. For example, Pillars & Support structure for the bus stand could have been better placed to help easy vehicle movement. Just a glance at the drawing board would have required answers to such questions.

Basic issue: Lack of accountability. Any such project needs to be managed - set goals, plan, execute, verify if the goals are being met during and after, adjust as needed to complete the loop. We just seem to want to execute. You guess the reasons.

But what is TTMC in any case? I'd call it a TTMC if outer reaches beyond 4th Block are served from and terminate here, and if this TTMC connects to other TTMCs and other popular destinations (including Namma Metro). I certainly see no reason for the tiny parking space - as Murali pointed out, it might be just about enough to serve those visiting the retail space above the bus stand (if it becomes one). I'm still hoping they will retain floors above the bus stand for setting up a real Traffic Management Center.

Ravi

idontspam's picture

Pedestrian facilities within TTMC

up
106 users have liked.

 As expected, most people walking on the roads, pavements end abruptly without zebra crossing or leading to another walking area. SO the expectation being "I am out of space for pavement now, go your own way even if that means getting in the way of buses". The pillars need reflectors and lane markings around them to guide the buses even during night time.

Is this the size of walking areas within the TTMC? How on earth is somebody expected to stand on that ledge without buses running over them? If people are expected to cross over to that ledge to view the map shouldnt there be a ped crossing marked where they cross over? WHy the callousness in markings and signage systems? This is where indiscipline starts. If  leadership indisciplined dont expect better from citizens.

idontspam's picture

Some more mistakes

up
96 users have liked.
  1. Wouldnt it make sense to put the numbers on the pillars or the walls to the back so people can see. Now they have to go to the opposite side or in the way of the buses if they have to read the information
  2. Simple bench is a big ask? even steel bars fitted to the superstructure will do.
  3. So how do the passengers walk along the narrow crowded bus stand? Looks like they have to step on to the busway obstructing the buses or squeeze between the pillars and the wall. After spending so much money on the TTMC the travellers dont get a few extra feet of platform?

blrsri's picture

REMOVING THE SKYWALK

up
102 users have liked.

 Heres something more interesting..now they are planning to remove the skywalk altogether!

http://www.bangaloremirror.com/index.aspx?page=article&sectid=1&contentid=2009091620090916004817782d78db12

So what will it be replaced with? magic ped underpass?..ah no, its gonna be relocated!

idontspam's picture

Why is it going away?

up
103 users have liked.

 But why should the skywalk go away? Its the leg near the TTMC that is causing the problem get rid of the leg by connecting it to the first floor and supporting with extra beams & cables from the building? This should remove the obstruction at the entrance for the buses. BTW How come they thought about this now and not catch it when building the TTMC? Everything about the authorities building anything is shoddy. Goes back to what I said here

 I think we need to redefine TTMC and understand what is the objective? 

idontspam's picture

Concept behind TTMC

up
105 users have liked.

From the BMTC website 

  1. TO PROVIDE AN INTEGRATED TRANSPORTATION FACILITY WITH ADEQUATE FACILITIES AND AMENITIES TO CATER TO THE R REQUIREMENTS OF ALL USER GROUPS.
  2. TO MINIMIZE/ REDUCE CONGESTION ON MAIN ROAD THROUGH EFFICIENT TRAFFIC MOVEMENT.
  3. SMOOTH FLOW OF ALL TYPES OF TRAFFIC TO AND FROM THE TERMINAL SUCH THAT THERE IS NO CONGESTION/DISTURBANCE CAUSED TO TRAFFIC ALONG THE MAIN ROAD.
  4. MINIMUM /NO CONFLICT BETWEEN VARIOUS TRAFFIC TYPES-PASSENGERS, BUSES AND PRIVATE VEHICLES AND TO ACHIEVE MINIMUM PASSENGER AND VEHICLE PROCESSING TIME.
  5. TO ENCOURAGE USE OF PUBLIC TRANSPORT AND PROVIDE FIRST-MILE CONNECTIVITY THROUGH PROVISION OF PARK AND RIDE FACILITIES IN THE PROPOSED BUS TERMINAL.

Is objective number 4 achieved by the Jayanagar TTMC? How effective will objective number 5 be considering the amount of parking space if shops come up?

s_yajaman's picture

Jayanagar TTMC - still shocked at the execution

up
111 users have liked.

Drove past the TTMC some days back.  I could not believe that this took as long as it did. 

I thought this would be as big as the Shantinagar TTMC and that the land behind this would also be used. 

This is essentially the old bus stop with a building on it.  At least the old bus stop had two sections - one for buses headed to Majestic, etc and one for buses headed to Jayanagar 8th block.

IDS has pointed out all the problems and executional misses.  I think some tough questions via the rTI route are in order.  People have borne a lot of inconvenience for the last 2 years for this?? Is this how JNNURM funds are to be used?

Srivathsa

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

Public Agenda's picture

maximising value thru commercial return on land

up
110 users have liked.

IDS sir,

While TTMCs were concieved the real estate market baloon was about to burst, and later it did

and it would be posible that TTMC looks like it was conceptualised with malls and shops in mind and an increased footfall of customers passing thru the TTMC on buses

so instead of a Mall Bus services started by the BMTC we would have the malls in  BMTC  bus stops esp for the Volvo customers.

a few years ago the real estate calcs for malls in the city was 60 maybe that failed totally but huegly shored up by BMTC with 22 TTMCs  and a huge public cost to it

JNNURM is happy to introduce huge market friendly cities who transport mall customers with public funds on costly and expensive public transport


idontspam's picture

@PA

up
90 users have liked.

I dont have a problem with malls on bus stops or wherever, I am concerned about the primary purpose being served "effectively" "FIRST". I have restricted my comments to the primary functions of the TTMC, beyond that they may have the right to earn money building anything as long as it does NOT impede or restrict or replace the primary functions.

One of the reasons for pointing out these mistakes is because it is an instance of the larger malaise that plagues public infrastructure in our city.

Public Agenda's picture

what is the primary purpose? this is it

up
102 users have liked.

Is it possible that what I wrote is about the primary purpose being served --- "effectively" "FIRST".  Real estate development was the priority and how the BMTC went about it was by identifying and gathering lands from BBMP and BDA to give them land.  Does this need to be examined?

It was done swiftly asking for depot lands but soon after the switch to TTMC was made in BMTC when JNNURM came into the picture . It is a dream for a profiteering public bus transport company. DMRC and the delhi metro are trying their best to do the same thing

 


pathykv's picture

Jayanagar TTMC

up
98 users have liked.

Numerous points/ideas have come up.

It will be worthwhile to have a joint inspection with BMTC authorities to point out the improvements/rectifications needed.

More important, the same mistakes should not be repeated in the other TTMCs being built.

K.V.Pathy

tsubba's picture

ttmc

up
112 users have liked.

agree with pathy sir.

i think we keep repeating this type of analysis often here. perhaps there is a systematic way to go about it. i think some sort of flow analysis this falls into.  i wonder what simple measures would be. we should have a checklist of items with which we can can evaluate these ttmcs.

obvious ones are over all area, traffic volume, passenger through put, then no of parking lots as a fraction of passenger volume etc.,

but it would be great if we can somehow divide the area into passenger and vehicle areas, and analyse how they flow from the time they come in to the time they go out. measure no. of conflicts between passengers and vehicles.

wrt to map, i think the map is way too detailed to be useful. it should only be  a schematic of routes operating from that particular ttmc. sorry to be controversial, but women cant and wont use such detailed maps. only idiots like me will stand in front of it and gawk at the awesomeness of the details in it. 99.999% of the rest could care less. all they want to know is which bus to take to whitefield.

murali772's picture

inadequate railing height

up
103 users have liked.

The point I am trying to make here is that, particularly in public places (even though this specific place is normally to be accessed only on vehicles), the railing height needs to be more than than that of the centre of gravity of an average man, so that in case he looses balance (for whatever reasons), he does not topple over.

Muralidhar Rao
tsubba's picture

hahaha

up
84 users have liked.

jor aaagi nakku.  solpa jaasti ne aaytu saar. center of gravity muntaadavu solpa jaasti ne. varsha varsha kolu karga ne saryaag naDitilla, neevu center of gravity antha inglis bigeethidiralla raayre, neev hing maaDboda, nyaayana?

 

 

dvsquare's picture

Agree wit h Pathy Sir

up
99 users have liked.

Yes, that would be good idea to present all these findings to the BMTC so that these shortcomings should be rectified in the other TTMCs being built-up as well as some very basic stuff shouldn't be compromised with.

What can be done is that - we have so many pictures right, so we can try to add comment/arrow/sketches to those pictures using mspaint or any other picture editor to show the problems in there and how can be taken care in short.

Later, we can combine all of them, sort them out, compile them and present it to BMTC.

idontspam's picture

Off limits

up
94 users have liked.

 What are you both doing up there? it should be off limits for jaywalking. Dont they have a sign saying no pedestrians on ramp? 

On second thoughts why would they put sign boards? They would rather have people figure out where their center of gravity lies.

tsubba's picture

tweetanator

up
99 users have liked.

hahahahaha!!! you go tweetanator.

murali772's picture

unsatisfactory toilet fittings

up
92 users have liked.

The flexible plastic pipe draining into the trap below is a typical PWD arrangement that is not good enough even for a government office. For a bus-stand/ TTMC complex, where the usage would be very high, such poor design, I would categorise as criminal negligence. In no time, it will all come apart, and the entire place for miles around will be stinking away to high heavens.

I am inclined to think that toilets in public places should follow no less a standard than at the BIAL, even if the initial costs are marginally higher. And, like at BIAL, they should be manned some 16 hours a day (two shifts), with the attendants constantly cleaning up, apart from regularly mopping up the floors. In fact, it may be a good idea to outsource the maintenance function to the commercial space lessee for a concession in the lease rent, with BMTC just ensuring compliance through periodic inspections.

aayithu Tarle avare' - C/G vishaya bidi; idu haeluvadu sari nae?
 

Muralidhar Rao

Praja.in comment guidelines

Posting Guidelines apply for comments as well. No foul language, hate mongering or personal attacks. If criticizing third person or an authority, you must be fact based, as constructive as possible, and use gentle words. Avoid going off-topic no matter how nice your comment is. Moderators reserve the right to either edit or simply delete comments that don't meet these guidelines. If you are nice enough to realize you violated the guidelines, please save Moderators some time by editing and fixing yourself. Thanks!



about seo | blog