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Will banning of Autos from CBD ease traffic chaos ?

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Yes
58% (46 votes)
No
33% (26 votes)
Can't say
10% (8 votes)
Total votes: 80

Comments

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Yes, Banning will be a blessing-avoids traffic chaos, pollutions

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If the proposal is put into practice and Nanos replace the autos, many problems like irresponsible lane discipline, dangerous driving, harassing other road users, unruly behavior in case of other vehicles touching the autos, blackmailing, traffic chaos, hi-end air pollution, noise pollution and a host of other sufferings can be overcome.

There will be opposition but in the larger interest of green city concept, it would be better to ban the autos from CBD areas who use the CBD arterial roads only to fan out to other far flung areas with the same attitudinal behavior. 

If non-polluting Nanos are introduced to replace these unruly Autos, it will be all the most better.

- Over to Prajegalu

- Vasanthkumar Mysoremath

 

faiqg's picture

Replacing autos with?

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Does banning autos mean:

1. Banning and nothing replaces them?

2. Replacing them by some other vehicle? (Tata Nano)

3. Replacing them by Kendriya Sarige?

If 1., it will result in people bringing their own mode of commuting.

If 2., it is simply replacing a vehicle. Vehicle itself is not the problem. Vehicle with driver is. The same guy will be unruly driving a sedan who is unruly while driving an autorickshaw(No?)

If 3., big YES! But where are these buses? I walked from Eva mall to Manipal Center because i wanted to go to Cunningham Road. (But all buses were going to Shivaji Nagar station so i walked from Infantry Road) (Pardon my ignorance i am not aware of Kendriya Sarige's routes)


narayan82's picture

Adding to the list

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Faiq:

Let me add a No. 4: Pavements to walk on!

That itself will take care of half the present autos used in the CBD. Sheltered Pavements with a good Volvol/low floor bus service can solve the problem on its own.

Narayan Gopalan
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
dvsquare's picture

Why autos? Its the autowalahs creating chaos and all wrongs

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In my opinion, just replacing autos will not make any sense, it will just create a lot of unemployment and a lot of problems. It is not at all practical too. Because its not the AUTOs which are criminals, its the auto-drivers who are making the life of citizens and roads hell.

The best things what I have also thought is to do something so that these auto-drivers can be taught, trained, disciplined, policed and every other thing which can help them become a responsible drivers.

Lets say, if nanos  replace autos, don't you think the same non-disciplined, rowdy auto-drivers will drive them too and again the result would be the same. The fact of the matter is that lets do something together to bring them to what is the "correct" is. A few suggestions:

(1) All places wherever auto are standing for hire, there should be policemen policing that they don't say "NO" to anyone for going here or there.

(2) Also, that policeman should also write down his number and make sure that auto-driver doesn't charge more than the normal-fare.

(3) Then, the next thing is that we should understand that its us, we the people who have increased the demand of the autos too much, and therefore its only us who can bring them back to earth. So, here is the "demand-supply" princinple, and I regularly follow it - Since we cannot fight with them single-handedly, we cannot argue with them if they say "no" to some place, but if they say yes, and ask for fare more than meter, one-and-half etc, just walk forward without saying a word. Continue doing it unless you either get a auto who is ready to go by the meter reading, or time-over for you. I know that we cannot do it endlessly for a single instance, but we can atleast continue at times when we have time to say "NO" to a few autos, thereby decreasing their demand. If everyone of us or lets say a good chunk of people start doing this, it will have a drastic effect. When this principle can cause recession/depression, why can't this just bring auto-drivers to the earth back?

(4) There should be a good governing authority who can train these drivers about their responsiblities on the road, road-sense, strict rules to follow traffic signals, not violating one-ways and do the main duty "To Hire" to anywhere with all the respect. In turn they will get a much more respect.

That's all I had to say, if we can stand-up and do something together in this regard, that would be a great step towards solving many problems of bangalore like public transport, reducing jams etc etc.

blrpraj's picture

rightly said

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Rightly stated by dvsquare . It is not the auto that is the problem. The problem is with the person in whose hands the auto is in. Whether you put a mercedes or nano or an auto in the hands of the person the result is mostly the same.  Perhaps, if you put the auto in the hands of a singaporean cabbie in singapore the end result may be drastically different :-).

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Autos cannot run without automen..and many are bad

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DVS

Your 1&2 - We all know there is a nexus and an element of 'what is in it for me' wherever there is enforcement of law and order - between the law breaker and the law and order protector. 

Reg.3 - Autos have become necessary evils in urban scenarios; they are the next cheapest transportation system to public transport.   Despite spending huge amounts of public money for providing economical and comfortable public transport, the State transport authorities have come in for highly critical analysation and have also been pointed with a finger on their highly stratified approach while providing obligatory social transport system;  Volvos, Big10, HoHo, Vajaras etc., that are bleeding the BMTC.

We cannot wish away Autos and the only way to bring in a semblance of orderliness is to strengthen/improve the public transport system and also make the automen behave themselves with an element of humanitarian consideration and their responsibility to the society and also their livelihood.   Being behind lure of lucre alone by Automen will only create alround unhappiness and may result ultimately in their total banishment towards tier two cities.

It is better for Law and Order and Transport authorities to tighten the screws on these ubiqutous red ants called Autos by random checking through squads of strict officials who are not malleable to the syndrome of /what is in it for me'.

- Vasanth Mysoremath

pathykv's picture

AUTOs

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I agree with Mr. Vasanth that strengthening Public Transport, will reduce dependence on autos, esp. at Railway stations

Last night I arrived at K.R.Puram station at 9-30 p.m. (the Mumbai express being almost an hour late). After climbing up and down the steep stairway with luggage, (in this station the trains never stop so that you can avoid the stairs), I had to cross the busy Old Madras road with not stop traffic even at the marked pedestrian crossing.

Half a dozen automen were after me demanding one & half fare or more to go to Indiranagar even at 9-30pm. I waited patiently for Public Transport  more than half- an- hour,but not a single bus towards Ulsoor came. (later I found out there is a bus stop half a KM away and buses towards Ulsoor are routed that way).

At last I had to shell out a little less than one & half to one auto who did not get any other passenger.

In spite of numerous demands to provide connectivity at this and other Rly. Stns, BMTC is oblivious running their services where they feel like even if half empty, but not providing them where they are needed and demanded by the public.

No doubt this is main cause of the autos taking upper hand with hapless commuters , especially those from other places, unfamiliar with the city.

K.V.Pathy

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Automan escapes with a rice bag of an elderly lady

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Even now I am seething with anger against the most heinous and unscrupulous automan who cheated our friendly elderly lady who had brought her ration for the month in an auto.  This happened when I was standing in my first floor balcony and felt so helpless:

- Our neighbor got down from the auto, checked the meter, paid the automan, took out a few packets of her monthly ration and requested the automan that she will just keep them at her door step and come back to take out the other packets

- Automan did not bother to help but kept a watch on the progress of her unloading, when the lady just took her second set of packets and a went inside, the Automan suddenly started the auto and escaped with the rest of the packets.  From first floor I thought she had taken out all her belongings and went back to reading my paper. 

- Suddenly there was a shrill voice and I know it was from the dear old lady.  It was a pathetic scene to see the elderly lady limping and trying to run and alert others - her feeble voice could not carry and by the time a also got downstairs, the croock of an automan had vanished around the bend.   She was in tears, sobbing and shivering with anger because she had lost along with a few packets of ration, a bag of 50 kg of rice.

- Moral: (1) Note down the number of the auto when you hire one.        (2) Remove these creeps from the face of the earth including from CBD.

- Vasanth Mysoremath

silkboard's picture

why such language?

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"It is better for Law and Order and Transport authorities to tighten the screws on these ubiqutous red ants called Autos by random checking through squads of strict officials who are not malleable to the syndrome of /what is in it for me'."

Why such language? For two bad examples you cite here, I have 10 good auto experiences to counter argue that most of them are nice people. Just recently, I dropped my cellphone in an auto near Bagmane Tech Park, and the automan was waiting 15 minutes at the gate to wait for me to return to pick it up. Week before that, my family lost way (when driving) around Begur Main road, and an automan lead them out all the way to Hosur Road, all without expectations of money. I have 5-6 more, but will save for later.

Next, this dream of "squad of strict officials" is a dream, a dream.

Last, replacing auto with nano is just creating another set of vehicles to create chaos and jams. Essentially, I am lost between so many things you are trying to say - autos cause jam? Do you not want autos at all or do you want to see autos replaced with nanos? Do you hate autos because they cause pollution or because all automen are red ants? or all of these? what are the alternative solutions to "last mile connectivity"?

Talking one of above at a time with details of why autos cause problems is going to lead to more meaningful discussions. But taking out personal anger against automen by mixing up all of above is simply going to live on as rant.

There is a difference between anecdotal evidences and observation based extrapolation and analysis. There is a difference between discussing and propagating.

MVK sir - a humble but serious request. Why fall for quantity? With so much knowledge, awareness and financial acumen that you have, we have come to expect better quality posts from you.

psaram42's picture

Poised and well measured comments

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 VKM sir’s expertise is never in doubt IMHO. SB and all of us on Praja want to maximize our gains by this expertise. I agree with SB when he says that there are several good points for some bad ones for any situation.

 

dvsquare's picture

True, but we cannot ignore bad points

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Yes, I agree, its like that always. You will always find a handful of good automen out of all so-called ants. But it doesn't give us any good reason to not to raise our fingers on bad ones.

Its seldom if I want to go somewhere and auto doesn't ask for more money than the meter charge. Charging extra is one thing, they don't want to go anywhere, they even don't reply many times. They make a huge fuss about IT people that you get a lot of money etc etc.

Please give me a reason, while going from home to workplace by the same route everyday, why the meter charge is different each trip in the range of +/-10%. Can we ignore that too?

Have you not seen on the roads, that autos are driving very insane, thinking their 3-wheeler as 2 wheeler and try to put front tyre in the minimal space possible causing problems for other vehicles and jams on the road.

Have you not seen automen violating traffic lights and violating one-ways most of the times, and become cause of the accidents of other vehicles?

I am not at all in favour of the banning autos and replacing them with nanos, I just want that some strict laws should be there, so that they also have some fear.

Simpe questions are -

(1) For-Hire means, they are legally obliged to take where you want to go, isn't it?

(2) Why meters are always faulty?

(3) Why they always want more money what it shows in meter, ranging from 1.5 to 2 times in proper sunlight, forget about midnight?

(4) Why don't they follow traffic rules always?

 

idontspam's picture

Enforcement for autos only?

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  I just want that some strict laws should be there, so that they also have some fear

I agree with the observation, but for every auto we point a finger at there are 4 fingers pointing towards cars, buses & 2 wheelers. Traffic enforcement is a general issue not restricted to one type of vehicle only. As somebody pointed out training and certification is to be given to the people behind all vehicles.

Now meter application, refusing to ply etc is another matter altogether. Not a traffic issue and can fall under unfair trade practices.

silkboard's picture

traffic - its not just autos

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If we are cribbing against the faulty meters, noise pollution, all autos not going to CNG, I will join the rant train. Absolutely.

But attacking their trade, or blaming them to be bad drivers - I don't think such discussion is fact based. We all suck at driving, autos are just a little worse, and that I would suggest is because of two reasons

  1. Literally, their livelyhood depends on it. So they do things you and me will do less often.
  2. Their vehicles are a little more maneuverable than 2 and 4 wheelers. Drive an auto if you want to feel it. Try it. Ask any automan, and 90% of them will be nice enough to let you ride their tool.
Vasanth's picture

Auto is a necessary evil

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Autos are very much essesntial especially for the lower middleclass and the poor who cannot afford cars.

Assume that it is heavy rain and someone at a home is sick in a poor man's house who doesn't own a car. They can count on auto.

Assume that your car / 2 wheeler had some problem and you had to headout to an urgent work, then you will only count on auto. You cannot call a city taxi and wait on him. It is very much needed and they are like necessary evils same way as cars.

Cars are also causing major traffic jams especially single driven large cars in CBD. Nobody raises their voice against that since upper class use it extensively. Policy should not be class oriented.

 If you want to goto say middle of Chikkpet, only auto or 2 wheeler can help you not a Merc / BMW.

muni_blr's picture

Autos need to be replaced

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 While Silkboard's empathy towards the Auto drivers and his defending them  rightly so in not branding the entire lot is understandable , I can easily say that the general consensus would be that that you are likely to feel cheated atleast one out of 3 times you use an auto. I am saying this with personal experience when i had to use the autos regularly as my CTS( carpal tunnel syndrome) prone wrists were not allowing me to ride my bike.

Okie, after stating the above, I have some points to make and would lean towards replacing the autos for the following reasons

1) They are not safe and comfortable. I have seen quite a few accidents invloving autos including deaths.The steering mechanism of the autos make them that much more easy to move and at the same time dangerous in the hands of the drivers. They are feared by 2 wheelers and cars for this reason. My wife who takes an auto has been injured twice going to her office. They have almost zero lighting and are not safe in the night in poorly lit places.

2) They cause a lot of noise pollution. How often do you feel irritated by the sound of an Auto. I know for a fact that they tamper with the exhaust to enable make that sound. This is a menace to me atleast and we have to address this.

3) Meter tampering practice is almost a norm and the demand for double and 1.5 times over the meter.  I have seen a variation of upto  3.5 Kms for a regular 8 Km trip ( translates to about 25 Rupees more  for 56 Rupees Auto fare)

4) The autos have tarnished bangalore's image more than anything when you look at it from a relative perspective.

What i think could be an alternative.

1) Have Nano as a replacement as they seem commercially and financially viable with some attractive finance options and design modifications to suit the purpose.

2) Phasing out the auto over a period of time as you cannot bring about a replacement in a day.

3) Nanos would be relatively safer for the occupant and also for other people who drive around them as the car will not be as nimble and dangerous as the Auto.

4) Enforce some sort of GPS based distance and cost calculation. I dont mind paying a bit more if the tampering part is reduced as much as possible. There is a seperate department which is reponsible for all sorts of weighing and measurement related things which is behind the commissioners office. Its not doing its job properly at the moment though.

While I am all in for strengthening the public transportation as much as possible, we cannot do away with this mode of transportation can we. But atleast I feel it is time to move on with more safer means of transport as they have served as well.

 

 

 

 

Hurry Home

The Sage

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Sympathy to Automen(ace) yaake?

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SB Sir,

I will take only your compliments part and the ranting etc., has been hacked by other Prajas who have undergone the painful experience with most of the Automen-ace  unscrupulous, careless, callous, senseless, menacing, cheating etc.

Your sympathy is misplaced for once.

Out of 10 random sampling, we are sure to get 8 negative votes(4 men and 4 women), 1 can't say and 1 definitely positive - and that will be SB's.  Pun intended.

- we will all join and give you a red rose, if you could kindly plan some programme to teach these automen about behavioural science, transparency, accountability, their livelihood, peoples' curses etc.

- Whenever there is an automen strike, except a few at the Railway/Bus Stations, nobody will miss them.  They will manage to take BMTC buses and the world will be a lot more happy with less noise and pollution.

- Yes Nanos could be a solution because they are less noisy and less polluting.

- When an auto is not carrying passengers, the driver tries to safe fuel, switches off the engine and cruises on the inclined road as if the road is his ancestral property and in case he has passengers and  is happy with +1 extra-illegal, then the entire road is his property and he whizzes like a menacing red ant. 

- With regard to expectation of better posts, Praja  is a school and I am a KG student at grassroots level and I do not want to be at the top because IT WILL BE SO LONELY AT THE TOP.   Anyways, i bow to your wishes.

- Vasanth Mysoremath

silkboard's picture

"we will all join and give

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"we will all join and give you a red rose, if you could kindly plan some programme to teach these automen about behavioural science, transparency, accountability, their livelihood, peoples' curses etc."

Perhaps, 70% of our country needs such lessons if you ask me.

"When an auto is not carrying passengers, the driver tries to safe fuel, switches off the engine and cruises on the inclined road as if the road is his ancestral property and in case he has passengers and  is happy with +1 extra-illegal, then the entire road is his property and he whizzes like a menacing red ant."

There you go again, good english as cover for unparliamentary language :)

And when our car drivers don't find parking on a crowded road, they either double park, or suanter around lazily trying to bide time with hope someonel will make way for them.

30% of the bikers I see don't think anything of hopping on to the pavements eager to rub shoulders with hopeless pedestrians.

Then there are pedestrians, who would walk on the roads and never on pavements even if you lay nice ones out for them.

The point is - we all suck at these things you are pointing out. singling out automen, with language showing an ovious bias is not fair.

Yep, they do these things a lot more than others, and are more visible because all autos look alike (but you have 50 types of cars, and 60 models of bikes).

Anyway, words against words, I hope I made my objections clear - its against perceptions, biases and possibly the tone.

cheers,

SB

kbsyed61's picture

We want to treat symptom, not the disease!

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SB, VKM sir, and others,

Un parliamentary language apart, we are suggesting a treatment of banning Auto's from CBD. But Auto nuisance is the symptom of larger problem we have in all the towns and cities. Banning auto's is just like treating the symptom. Lets understand what is the core of the issue here. We have cities that planned in pre-independence era.

Most CBDs have existed even before we got our independence. For whatever reason we have roads that just allows 2 lanes, doesn't offer any other leverage to introduce needed traffic improvements. Some streets and roads are so narrow, even the PT buses doesn't ply there.

Take the example of Avenue Road. I have not seen any bus plying on that road since 1970s. We all know the width of its intersecting road and streets.

Therefore in this context, autos are just filling the needs that our existing BTS/BMTC is not able to fulfill. Except for auto permit and vehicle registration, there is nothing that regulates autos or any other PT service providers. How may BMTC drivers have been punished for deaths on roads? Added to that there is no requirement as such to demonstrate the understanding of safe driving practices to obtain the license and even there is no requirement to be a literate to operate the vehicle. I can obtain a license and but don't have to know how to read? How can I be safe driver without the skills to read the signs on the road.

We have talked about rude behavior, polluting vehicles, meter tampering etc?So what is the treatment?

The disease is sick urban transportation infrastructure. The treatment to cure this disease is:

  1. Instituting a responsible and functional urban transport authority that plans, constructs regulates and provides PT services
  2. A regulatory authority that regulates the PT service providers
  3. A regulatory authority that takes action against offenders
  4. Reliable PT system catering to the 60-70% of the daily commuters
  5. Priority and first right of way on all roads for PT vehicles
  6. Low priority for private vehicles on all roads
  7. Legislative actions to put a limit on adding new private vehicles on roads.

Replace autos with Nano? Seeing this support, Ratan Tata would be the happiest person. He not only gets subsidized fuel for his vehicles from bad govt policy, but also gets unsolicited support from public. We all seems to agree for better PT system, but on this count we want Nano.

I wish instead of aspiring to replace autos with Nano's, we ask for better PT bus system that is fuel efficient and takes care of our all PT needs.

Vasanth's picture

The Blame Game....

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I have seen the blame game of vehicles, a car user blames a 2 wheeler and vice versa. People complain about BMTC buses, but BMTC bus drivers seems to be better except for not stopping in the stop. The company bound buses, cabs , the Sumos and the Indicas are more dangerous. I have had many problems with them than the autos. They are rash and arrogant in nature. Pretend to beat you up if you say anything against them. Also they are fast, so damage will be more. Something needs to be done on this front more than autos.

muni_blr's picture

While a strong PT system is the way forward..

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 @kbsyed61:  Now we are making Bajaj a happy man by keeping the Autos on roads arent we. Whether It makes Tata a happy man or not with the unsolicited support from the public, i strongly feel the need to replace the unsafe autos for the reasons i have mentioned in my earlier post. The economical viability, low entry price, safer than Auto etc of the Nano makes it a strong contender to replace the Auto. Also, there is a lot of progress happening on alternate fuel for the nano ( electric , CNG etc) and that would only help matters if we take the first step of starting to phase out the auto.  Please bear in mind that it would only make sense if the current lot of auto drivers make a switchover to the Nanos which would sustain their livelihood. 

Your points on regulatory mechanisms and priority to PT systems makes a lot of sense but going by how things work in karnataka and elsewhere in India, it is always a slow reactive response rather than a proactive response.

Some more points that  can be of relevance in addition to what you have mentioned.

1) Tax People more if they are buying a second or third car for a house. People will look for workarounds and beat that tax i know. But can we do something about it.

2) Increase parking fee for private vehicles such that they dont use personal mode of transaport. Let this money go to th egovernment to improve the road related infrastructure. This will make them use Autos and that will not be what we intended to do in the first place isnt it.  I will assume that we would have started with the phasing out of the Nanos.

3) One of the main reasons for the IT people to use the autos/private/own vehicles is the flexibility of time in the companies and the work pressures which makes them go to office and come back in odd hours. Can be something be done by the IT companies to make people use PT. I know Bagmane tech park has its own bus service to cater to the companies in the BT park  by introducing buses which will take care of their transportation. This is good thing but it only caters to say 20% ( my intuitive guess) i feel. Having a rigid timing will help Car pooling , bike pooling is what i feel. We can make use of some intranet facility at office and advertise the route that i would be taking in my personal vehicle and the no of seats available would help other employees to use that pooling by paying some nominal fees. This would help the congestion part and the usage of fuel.

I will stop now. 

 

Hurry Home

The Sage

sanjayv's picture

Nano mania

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For a vehicle that has just about started logging some kilometres, which is yet to be proven on the street to be viable, well functioning, easy to maintain, safe in a crash etc., the nano is sure getting a lot of hype.  Let's wait a little bit more and see the vehicle in action and listen to the feedback shall we, before promoting the nano? 

Vasanth's picture

Auto / Nano pooling even better option

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Well, we had posted earlier on Praja about a shared auto preferrably 7 seater using Tata Magic or the likes and make it like shared auto. It would be economical for the passenger and the number of autos also gets reduced.

Car pooling is good, but, everyone sticking to   it is the problem. Shared autos running will result in transportation to the remote areas like a feeder service for buses as well as a 'car pooling' with a driver without much of the complications on getting the people for car pooling.

Luxurious A/C Innovas can also be started as pooled taxis for the luxury concious people. Why not companies like Meru and Easy cabs come up with Innova based A/C shared taxis. Even BMTC can start that service.

Ravi_D's picture

@SB - I second you on this one...

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For the record, let me put it out first - In the late 80's, I used to drive an auto during the weekends to suppliment my family income, and understand their plight to some degree (but there is still no excuse to doing anything wrong). And now, I'm fortunate enough to have climbed up the ladder to reach a different economic strata.

Autos are a menace, no doubt. Bad driving, non-existant silencers, pollution, occassional bad manners... But so are most private buses I see daily on Mysore Road (and some BMTC ones too). Tiny goods vehicles and lorries are equally polluting and obstructive to smooth traffic flow. Cabs, TTs, cars, scorpios, two wheelers can beat or match autos any day in bad driving.

So, let us try and holistically approach issues with true Praja spirit. As far as possible, fact / data based,  constructive and gentle worded discussion please.

Ravi

dvsquare's picture

True, but will they go everytime at normal fare.

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Hi Vasanth

I understand that they are very much necessary for lower class and middle class, yes but there is the problem, this autowalahs are actually creating issues for them only. Upper class can still will afford the higher fare demanded by automen, but what about the lower class?

And I also agree that even car etc are also creating a lot of traffic jams, and pollution too, that too single person in a single car. Yes, that's true, but do you want to say that others are also doing mistakes, creating chaos, and why shall I not? Then I don't agree with you.

We have to educate/aware the people going in car also about the pollution and traffic problems, but at the same time we have to make sure that if they want to use the alternate public transport, they do not feel complexity doing that, like in case of autos.

I have a bike and I travel by my bike only, but sometimes when I give it for servicing, I am very much tense as I am very much afraid of autos, because I know everytime something or the other thing will happen, first of all he will never come on normal fare, then meter will show manipulated fare, at last he says that road is bad, its too inside etc and demand more fare etc. Everytime it happens, everytime.

Instead of pinpointing other's mistake to cover one's, we need to aware/educate everyone and improve every thing be it auto or car or bus or cabs.

dvsquare's picture

Yes, buses, cabs, trucks all come under same category

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Hi,

I am not only blaming only autos, but yes the BMTC buses and other private buses, as well as the cabs, and moreover the heavy-vehicles, I am talking about every other vehicle.  And yes the private cars also come under this category but the difference is that they might be relatively better driver considering their car's safety :-), yes that's true,

But for buses, specially BMTC buse drivers, they have no care for buses they drive as well as the other vehicles on the road.

I always see heavy vehicles running on the rightmost side of the road on the ORR, when there is a notice written in BOLD that heavy vehicles prohibited on the rightmost lane.

So, the figer is pointing at everybody, the thing is that we have to take some practical and logical action so as how to improve upon it instead of fighting ourselves about ones' mistake and other's mistake.

dvsquare's picture

We all know what the problem is, lets start solving it

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Hi All,

Reading through all the comments, discussion between various praja members here, I am not able to understand that why we are debating on when we all feel that something is wrong. Praja members who are against autos are couting the bad practices followed by automen, and praja members who are on the opposite side, they are not able to defend autos, but trying to point towards other vehicles to save self. This is the not the way we can go ahead and improve all the vehicles on the road. We have to take a step-by-step approach and starting from auto, then buses, cab, we need to improve all. And once that is done, you can go back to private car drivers/owners, giving these good examples of driving by automen etc and at the same time encourage them to use the public transport because then it will no more insane.

Regards

Deepak

vinod_shankar's picture

Is Congestion tax the answer???

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In todays scenario, every vehicle owner pays the initial road tax and assumes that he has the right to drive for eternity without giving so much as a thought about the damage he's causing to others and the environment.  Congestion charges will keep the vehichle owner/drivers that they have to cough up money every time they pollute the city and cause damage to others by unnecessary usage of private transport, when a good public transport is available.   In case of bangalore we can have congestion limits and impose congestion tax on

1. Private Cars/taxis

2.Private transport/carrier vehicles

3.Autos

Considering that in our country, its mostly the rich and upper middle class which own  cars, congestion charge  will not affect the poorer class of the society.  A well designed congestion tax system ,with implementation/ operations  outsourced to private players can make bangalore and other cities a better place to live in.

vinod

dvsquare's picture

One more tax, no solution

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Hi Vinod,

In India, we already have a lot of taxes categories, and here you propose another and who pays that - the rich class, I agree that this doesn't impact poor class and middle class, but how does it solve the problem. Somehow you are trying to restrict me not to use my vehicle or less use my vehicle and not giving me any good alternative. Govt has to first make sure that public transport is in very good condition and attractive, and efficient and comfortable, so that people are encouraged to use it by themselves. If you are targetting rich class, they have money, they will pay another tax and drive their luxurious cars anyways, now the impact be fully on medium class who are trying to buy 4 wheelers and trying many ways on how to drive it economically (carpooling etc).

Anyways, you know in karnataka, already the Road Tax is very very high compared to other states, you want another set of tax.

Also, on roads, you will seldom see a private car, luxurious cars exhaling a lot of polluting smoke, because they have money, they spend it on its servicing and maintainence also. But I have seen many times autos exhaling black smoke (out of kerosine as fuel), many BMTC buses, a lot of heavy vehicles, many old cabs, but nobody never catches them, if a biker fails to produce a non-pollution certificate, he has to pay a fine of Rs 300, is this a irony?

That's the problem with India, those who pay taxes, wil anyway pay and use the services, and those who don't will continue not to do so and polluting the envionment by other means.

vinod_shankar's picture

It might work..

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hi sri,

"Somehow you are trying to restrict me not to use my vehicle or less use my vehicle and not giving me any good alternative"

The idea of a congestion charge is to increase the usage of public transportation at the cost of private transport.  As observed number of person/private vehicle to person/public vehicle will result in lesser congestion. But i agree with you that and effective public transportaion system has to be in place, if  we have congestion charges.  I believe BMTC provides a good public transporation system for bangalore.  Atleast in the CBD a BMTC bus stop will be available  within 0.5-1.0km .with additon of metro the overall situation for public transport will improve to a great extent.   

some results from london congestion charging.  Keep mind that london has largest metro in the world,

In early 2003 congestion was introduced in london charging 5 pounds to drive into the city.  After one year these are the resuls

1. Car trips fell by a third

2. 15 % more bus journeys,20% more motorcycle journeys,30% more bicyle trips

And drivers who choose not to enter the congestion limits used the following.

1. 25% drove around it

2. 55% switched to public transport

3. 20% choose other alternative like bicycle, walks,work from home etc

sri with these many benefits,   we can afford to accept a little restriction on using private transport.

vinod

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Only 62/1000 votes in 10 days? Where have all prajas gone?

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My main aim of posting this Poll was to get a strong backing by majority of the 1000 strong prajas for projecting the statistical proof to the authorities for restricting the entry and exit of automenacing red ants from the CBD so that alround gains of reduction in various pollutions that are haunting all class of people.

As we know CBD is actually a transit center point for cross city travelling and people would prefer short cut routes through CBD for convenience and so called saving of fuel,  rather than making trips in longer routes that consumes more fuel.  They are actually missing the forest for the woods - stop-starts galore at various traffic hold ups.   Still the shortcut route is preferred and is endangering the environment with more than 1000 vehicles being registered every day.

Where are we heading?   Various in depth study analysed posts have appeared but the crux of the point that majority of Prajas should have joined this debate is lost.

there is still time and the Poll will close in 20 days from today.  Most of the prajas have been  expressing their views on various other issues whereas, this being a very sensitive issue (literally and relatively to our nose and breathing), there appears to be a 'passe'?

- Vasanthkumar Mysoremath

dvsquare's picture

Agreed, but before that Govt has to improve the public transport

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Hi Vinod,

I know that might work, and the poeple who are most impacted are the ones who just afford to drive small cars, not the one who roams around in luxurious cars.

Instead of congestion charges, if we make this public transport attractive, I am very much sure that people are going to use public transport.

Take the example of BIAL connectivity, that really a very good example of it, today I say the BIAS buses are the most reliable way of travelling to/from airport to any area, and people are using them voluntarily. We need to implement the same to the normal BMTC buses, bus-stops, driver's driving habits, people will definitely come back to public transport themselves.

dvsquare's picture

It cannot be a straighforward question

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Hi Vasanth,

It cannot be a straight forward question to me, atleast before answering, I have to know the way it can be done, I mean, in how much time, it can be implemented? How the current autos will be upgraded to nano or other alternative? What will happen to around 1L (approx) automen in the city and their bread? How will it be made sure that the nano-drives will not create the same nuisance as current automen are doing? [Current taxi and cab drivers do the same, how can we expect a good practice from future nano drivers?]

Deepak

muni_blr's picture

 Hi Vasanth, The poll title

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 Hi Vasanth,

The poll title can be misleading while voting and may not result in the intended feedback

as your comments indicate you want them to be replaced.

"Will banning of Autos from CBD ease traffic chaos ?"

Would it make more sense if it were to read  "Will replacing Autos with Its successor  ease traffic chaos ?"

If I were to go strictly by the poll, i would have chosen NO which I did not.

Has anybody interacted with the Govt and is there any proposal or any thought process going on in that direction.Is this is a step in that direction. If YES, we need more participation.

 

 

Hurry Home

The Sage

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Ban in CBD only-use BMTC to reach CBD- Autos in periphery

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@Hari Om, (Hurry Home) The Sage

Reason for using the word 'Ban' instead of 'Replace' is intentional.  I have discussed the various aspects as to why ban may be enforced in my first post here. 

- Automenace is a necessary evil but their levels of causing noise and environmental pollution appears to have reached a peak.  You must have noticed how much of inconvenience they are causing with their unruly behavior, tampered meter, use of adulterated fuel to save a few paise for themselves, belching smoke, blatant violation of lanediscipline etc.

- It is also to encourage people to use public transport because, anyways, the same auto you will be travelling in will be following the BMTC bus in which I will travelling. Got the point?

- They also have a right to survive - let them survive by moving around the CBD and in peripheries so that they can cater to the commuters and live and let live the environment.   It is the volume of autos that is creating dangerous GHGs in CBD that is alarming. - Asthama City.

- Vasanth Mysoremath

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