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JUSCO fined 2.5 crores

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The Commssioner Mysore CC Mr Raikar is quoted (19-2-2012) as saying that  JUSCO was trying to loot the MCC at every stage. it has already been fined RS 2.5 crores for non -perofmance and it is inept, and inexperienced after 3 years to deal with public and elected reps complaints every month he says.

While then Comissioner Manivannan was quoted as saying he would write to Mr R Tata, we dont know if that actually happened

Now the MCC will take up the matter with the MoUD Delhi in a meeting on21st February because of being drvien to the desperate situation and they dont have any other option but to appeal there.

Therefore the all out support for JUSCO and 24 X 7 water supply and the high cost so called 1st world services desired by certain elite advocates at high cost to the public and pleading for hard earned taxes to pay for such horrible perfomances may now need to be recosidered in light of all the new evidence piling up

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murali772's picture

71% target achieved is not too bad

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According to the agreement, the deadline set was connecting 1.7 lakh houses by December 2012. However, they have connected only 50,000 houses against the target of 70,000 till now.

This is from the Deccan Herald report accessible here.

So, they have achieved 71% of their target, as of now. I would look at it as a remarkable achievement, considering the kind of hurdles placed in their way, right from the very beginning, by the mafioso within the governmental set up (who largely control the tanker-water/ bore-well business), apart from the vicious campaign let loose by the "mai-baap sarkar"/ psuedo-socialist types.

On a comparison, here and here are some glimpses of BWSSB's performance over the decades that it has been in-charge of supplying water to Bangalore city (apart from managing its sewerage).

What becomes very clear is that when it's a government agency that's in-charge, there are no expectations whatsoever from the citizens. After some cursory attempts at seeking (rather, imploring for) redressal, they just give up, and learn to manage with alternate arrangements. But, when it comes to a private agency, the very same people are out there thirsting for the agency's blood, even more than the water. And, playing to the galleries are the neta, babu, press lot, orchestrated of course by the mafioso and the MBS lot.

There is also talk of incompetence/ inexperience on the part of the JUSCO team members. Actually, we don't know. We don't have their version, with the press being silent on that bit. Either way, being about the first large scale water-supply outsourcing contract undertaken in the country, one would have expected TATAs to mobilise their best resources, and manage things more professionally, in order to make it a model for the rest of the country - the stakes involved are huge, apart from the matter of the prestige attached to the TATA brand. Perhaps, they are at it; time will tell.

Whatever, I would still like to bet on their doing a good job of it eventually, like in the case of Delhi power supply, which, at the end of eight years from the time of taking over, is today set to become a model for the rest of the country - check this.

The power supply reforms actually took much longer than the eight years for the TATAs to stabilise their operations. Much before them, a foreign company took over the supply in Central Orissa, and after struggling with it for a few years and incurring huge losses in the process, sold out to Goenka's and ran away. The Goenka's had, through their Kolkata operations, mastered the "technology" of "playing the game", and have stabilised the operations since then, in their own way. Eventually, it required the TATAs to establish the right kind of model, atleast for the cities.

Responses to the MBS propaganda, may be accessed here

Muralidhar Rao
Public Agenda's picture

MBS and welfare state is for the elite

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This is not propaganda but the Govt document which states how the MBS is really for the elite the Budget statement of Revenue foregone (which you must go into in detail)

http://indiabudget.nic.in/ub2011-12/statrevfor/annex12.pdf

a huge corporate payout  and also to individuals (EXCISE AND CUSTOMS WAIVERS e.g on Gold, IT EXEMPTIONS in sum MAJOR SUBSIDIES)  of Rs 5, 30,000 crores in 2011-12 and approx at least 20,00,000 crores over the last 5-7 years. (a substantial chunk of the GDP annual)

The Public Sector reforms are also required which is another story.

Nagpur is another place where the other partner of JUSCO - Veolia ( link here JUSCO and Veolia Water India announce a partnership to develop water services in India

so let us list the objections again just to clarify

  1. the water supply function cannot be divested from the government which must provide a basic need
  2. Water is a constitutional right cannot be provided through privatisation by diminishing the sovereign fundamental right of citizens or the Government
  3. 24 X 7 is a high cost, extremely expensive mechanism of sustained corporate payout in the guise of (PPP)
  4. The elite IT campuses use the borewell water or highly subsidised public water.
  5. Even in the US around 85 % of the water supply is by the public sector 
  6. The move in Paris and many other European countries towards re-municipalisation, is because the experience of over 100 years of private water supply shows exactly the same as what JUSCO or Veolia are doing in India now
  7. The extensive deprivations caused by high tariffs and the lack of investment despite privatisation in the EU has forced those local governments to withdraw any more contracts
  8. That is the reason why  India which  is a big new market with huge JNNURM investment in the water supply and sanitation sectors is attractive for those firms which stabnd to lose buisness and profits inthe EU, South Amercia and the US
  9. In India execution experience rests with the public sector 
  10. In the EU and elsewhere it lies with the private sector but is going bad now.
  11. Many countries like Uruguay and Netherlands have passed laws disallowing privatising of water supply
  12. Italy passed a referendum against
  13. Clearly the elite want a Mai baap sarkar to contniue but the fear is to call it a subsidy which it really is 

 Socialsm for the rich and the markets for the poor is not a slogan but the reality

 


murali772's picture

jargonising

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All of the objections raised have more or less been addressed fairly comprehensively here. There is very little to add.

Socialsm for the rich and the markets for the poor is not a slogan but the reality.

Perhaps, this is an attempt at 'jargonising' on the lines of "privatisation of profits and nationalisation of losses" that some leftist "intellectual" had come up with - all of them only helps to obfuscate matters, and nothing more.

Meanwhile, the debate on the "Draft National Water Policy (2012)" can perhaps be taken up here.

Muralidhar Rao
Public Agenda's picture

MAI BAAP SARKARA (MBS) & welfare state for the elite - 2.0

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Of course you had and have very little to add. Some people never learn but the public always knew that 

Yeh Public hai Woh Sab Janti Hai

How can the rich be mollycoddled and how can clientelism and stakeholderisation continue. How can patronage and maybe even crony capitalism be propped up. How can the SUBSIDY be collected by the rich in perpetuity.

Through an annual massive tax giveaway over Rs 5,30,000 crores, ( recorded in the annual budget doc as an appendice for the sake of transparency but probably not in the budget)

This goes into the pockets of all the rich corporates and indivduals

More tax giveaway (including by not collecting) than what is collected.

By such payouts the rich can grab more resources and more land and more water and will even buy and sell the air (now better known as Carbon Credits)

this is how there is not much to say.

There is no accountability of the government to the poor and so called chalta hai status quo favourable to  1-3 % popln.

the Public knows that the Silence of these few can be purchased

 

P S the likely bailout of Kingfisher is a shining example. (The elite maybe willing partners)


murali772's picture

sabotage and cover up

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@ Mr PA - The discussion on this blog (started by you) is largely about MCC-JUSCO contract. If you have any inputs on that, we can possibly debate them over here. As for general "socialism vs capitalism", etc talk, there's this blog in PRAJA itself (here), where, if you make your postings, those interested will perhaps engage you.

And, as for Kingfisher bail-out, if at all it happens, it'll be by a consortium of commercial banks, who will very likely demand restructuring of the management, including perhaps the stepping down of Mr Vijay Mallya himself from the board. As compared to that, in the case of AIR-INDIA, the bail out is by the government, and for the Nth time, and there dosn't seem to be any end in sight ever. Whatever, all that can also be discussed in a separate blog, if you want to start one, rather than cluttering up things here.

Coming back to MCC-JUSCO deal, being a close observer of the goings on, I am sure you have read the following in the Star of Mysore (click here for the full report):

Mystery of missing 10 MLD water: Addressing press persons after an inspection of several places about the scarcity of drinking water in city, Ramdas alleged that 10 million liters a day (MLD) of water from Vijayanagar water tank was being misused by these officials. - - - While records show that 53 MLD water was being released to the water tank at Vijayanagar, JUSCO officials have reported that only 43 MLD water is being released. The remaining 10 MLD water is being deviated to unauthorised consumers by these officials, said the Minister. - - - - It is alleged that 10 MLD water is being siphoned off from the main supply line from Vijayanagar water tank to Kumbarakoplu, Gokulam, Metagalli and neighbouring layouts. But where does this missing volume of water go? Since how many years is this pilferage going on? Whose is to be blamed — the MCC, the VVWW or the JUSCO? Are the officials concerned not aware of this major water theft? These are some of the questions about which the authorities have maintained a divine silence and are more engrossed in "Raja Marga" and "heritage" works.

In my earlier post, while I had talked about hurdles placed in the way of JUSCO, I had deliberately restrained myself from using the word 'sabotage', since I was not privy to any reports on the same, other than from heresay. Now, of course, it's clearly before us all; and very obviously the reason why the progress has been tardy.

The officials protecting their vested interests is understandable, though not tolerable. But, what may be the motive of the cover up by people supposedly occupying Civil Society space?

Muralidhar Rao
Public Agenda's picture

1-12

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all the diverting to go here, there or everywhere else cannot take away from the fact that as you said earlier there is no more you can add

going by your argument all the important points No 1-12 cannot be answered by you.

Can we assume that what the Minister says is correct and niether the politicians nor the corporators  knew that this was going on?  We all know the bags of money Rs 25 crores / year approx is what JUSCO is looting from the MCC ( according to Comssioner, MCC)  Shd we assume that it has already lined many pockets and now the Minister is taking this stand against VVWW.

things are going swimmingly for all the pro- JUSCO'ers and of course the meeting in MoUD, Delhi is hardly going to pour cold water over this ?

WHY ? since the project was pushed by the MoUD in the Ist place and if it fails now the egg will be on their face.

name calling such as jargonising is only to divert again since the substance of the rationale and logic cannot be countered

Isn't it true that the toast is always buttered for the elite.....


murali772's picture

No 13, and more

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Clearly the elite want a Mai baap sarkar to contniue but the fear is to call it a subsidy which it really is

Points serialled at 1 - 12 have already been addressed by me adequately (in the post, to which I have given links enough times). That you refuse to accept them, is another matter. But, at sl no 13, I now notice that you have made a very valid point.

Very correctly as has been pointed out, piped water supply is currently subsidised, the tariff being in the range of just Rs 9 per KL (for monthly consumption between 8 KL to 25 KL per month, in which range most middle class (elite?) family consumption falls), compared to the cost of reaching water to Bangalore (from Cauvery) of nearly Rs 30 per KL. If the reforms, as envisaged in the National Water Policy-2012 were to come into effect, the 'elite' will have to pay atleast the actual costs. So, the ones who are championing the fight against it are clearly the 'elite', who are currently enjoying subsidy.

One relief however will be that, with improved delivery leading to lesser dependence on the tanker wallahs, whose charges are in the range of Rs 60 per KL, the overall costs may turn out lower than what it is actually costing the average 'elite' citizen today, and for better quality of water.

Corporators and ministers

So, you'll believe the Corporators, not the Minister; likewise Mr Raikar and not Mr Manivannan???

Rs 25 cr per year loot

- for 5 years, that will amount to Rs 125 cr, which is about the total value of the contract. So, according to you, no money has been expended on the contract so far? Fantastic!!!

MoUD, Delhi is hardly going to pour cold water over this? WHY? since the project was pushed by the MoUD in the Ist place and if it fails now the egg will be on their face.

So, MoUD, Delhi is also on your villains list? And, you are worried that the whole thing may actually turn out successful, and Mysoreans will begin to enjoy better water supply, thanks to the job being entrusted with a TATA company, like the Delhi people are beginning to enjoy better power supply entusted with another TATA company (check this)?

Isn't it true that the toast is always buttered for the elite.....

The butter is melting, and showing out clearly as to whose cause the mai-baap sarkar wallah's are championing - certainly not of the poor.

Like I have stated before, the blame for the sorry state of affairs in this country is not as much with the neta's, nor with the babu's, but with we clearly know who.
 

Muralidhar Rao
Public Agenda's picture

On water and other subsidies thanks for finally observing this

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Sure there are many taxes that we pay and many taxes that are waived and more money in the pocket of a few 

But why should everyone pay more for subsidies to the elite.

in fact when the IT assessees and corporate tax assessees are getting such a huge annual waiver (Rs 5,30,000 lakh crores) leaving more money in their pockets for consuming FMCG goods, IT hardware and software, and other leisure and entertainment products, clearly the commerce and industry will invest there.

So then who will invest in bijli sadak pani?

your argument says .........The poor of course!!!

They will pay the indirect taxes for the elite  and only rich and the elite  will get the waivers (revenue foregone?) The revenue foregone is actually an expenditure of the government a huge subsidy for the rich

Since water is a commons and not a commodity for sale and our taxes are already paying for the infrastructure why should there be any charge? what is the rationale? there is none.....

In fact the indirect taxes are paying for even the balance of  Rs 21 Rs 30 actual cost - Rs 9 avg paid / kl ) which is being subsidised for the rich as well. This helps make it free for everyone and not only those who are subsidised to afford......

that is why it is so unequal Inequity is inbuilt into such a system which has no idea of a common good

There is no justification for any user charge ......

It is a myth created by the privat sector who see the water supply provision as a business...


murali772's picture

brilliant thesis!

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Perhaps, the suggestion made was to increase the Income Tax rates. That was indeed what was done by the ultimate pseudo-Socialist of all times - Madame Indira Gandhi - taking the I/T levy levels to almost 98% (if I recall right). And, that was when the process of flight of capital to Swiss banks received the biggest boost of all times, as also the flourishing of the black economy in the country, leaving the government with hardly any money to invest even in the social sector. Even the Yechuri's and Karat's have today evolved past that stage, whereas a few still seem to remain in the 'wannabe Madame Gandhi' mould, even today.

A reading of this essay by Mr S A Aiyer would perhaps enlighten a reader (of course, only the ones looking to be enlightened) as to the need for rational tax regime.

And, beyond that, the suggestion appears to be to provide free water supply to everyone, irrespective of whether they are rich or poor, since the costs are supposedly already covered by indirect taxes, and since charging for water amounts to its commodification, which is blsphemous as per Socialist scriptures. Perhaps the Havana university may want to consider such a thesis for a doctoral research study.
 

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

the 'revenue foregone' bluff

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Subsidies can be explicit or implicit. The latter does not show up as a cash flow in a Budget statement, but is foregone revenue from the exchequer anyway. Since 2007, the Union Budget reports this 'implicit' giveaway, which is the sum total of all tax concessions availed. That number last year was a whopping Rs.5.2 trillion, larger than the fiscal deficit, larger than interest on national debt, larger than defence outlay, and certainly much larger than all explicit subsidies put together. This number alone could fund three years for the proposed Food Security Bill. It is, however, unfair and misleading to compare this big number with the explicit cash outflow on subsidies. That's because the revenue foregone on account of these 'implicit' tax-concession subsidies results in vastly enhanced investment and economic activity, which in turn contributes much more to the tax kitty.

For the full column by Sri Ajit Ranade, in the India Today, click here.

2007 was when the CPM was giving support to the UPA-1, and perhaps the compulsions thereof necessitated this 'implicit' giveaway reporting in the budget. But, the UPA-2 has apparently turned more leftish than CPM itself (talk of Stockholm syndrome), or at least wants to project itself that way, but all at a huge cost to the economy.

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

finally, a balanced report

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Finally, we have a more balanced report from "Live MINT (click here for the full text)" than the ones dished out so far by the likes of "Star Of Mysore", essentially playing to the galleries. Some take-aways as far as I am concerned, are as below:

First, Jusco found problems with the scope of the work defined in the project agreement. When the tripartite agreement was signed, the work was for laying a network of pipelines over 910km with 117,000 connections. “During the initial survey done by Jusco, the length of the pipeline network that needs to be rehabilitated was found to be 1,910km with 1.74 lakh connections... The discrepancy has put challenges in the project execution and its performance,” said Jusco’s Sharma. With changes in the scope of the work, the estimated cost of the project shot up, and renegotiating became messy.

Dores this mean that JUSCO did its own initial survey only after the agreement was signed? How did that happen?

Another point of contention was the lack of cooperation between Jusco and the city’s existing water works department, Vani Vilas Water Works. Employees of Vani Vilas, which has been serving Mysore for several decades, were deputed to work under Jusco, but reports of conflicts emerged as the project began to stall.

It was not just lack of co-operation; it was plain sabotage by vested interests - check my post of the 23rd Feb'12 (above).

“The experience of private ownership has been mixed around the world. Moreover, it is also a cultural issue, and, in India, where water has traditionally been a public good, private ownership will not work,” he says. “That said, we can have private sector participation where we can have the benefits of private sector without the pitfalls of private ownership.” There has been other criticism too—civil society groups such as the Citizens Committee’s Coordination Forum have claimed that a private operator was brought in to get the city’s poor to pay.

I don't see why this talk should come up in the first place. The contract is for "outsourcing" maintenance and supply. The ownership of the sources remain with the government. Besides, you can have all the water you want if you go to the source – a river, lake, or wherever; but, for it to be made available at the turn of the tap in your home, there are huge costs involved, and these have to be met. For supplies to lower middle class areas, there can possibly be a subsidy, and in public taps, the supply can even be free. But the flows have to be measured, and the government has to bear the subsidy burden.

And policymakers have begun applying lessons learnt from the mistakes made in Mysore water project. In other towns and cities, the Union government is pushing for the adoption of a PPP model, ensuring that private companies are investing their money in water systems and generating accurate data to avoid discrepancies in defining the job to be done. Nagpur, the second city after Mysore to go for a city-wide 24x7 water network, has opted for a PPP model, handing over the city’s distribution system to Orange City Water Ltd for a period of 25 years. Aurangabad, Patna and Ranchi are also adopting similar systems.

Ok - so, it's happening in other cities! Hopefully, the learnings from Mysore should help smoothen the execution in these cities.

Muralidhar Rao
abidpqa's picture

the length of the pipeline

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the length of the pipeline network that needs to be rehabilitated was found to be 1,910km

Private players are wasting money. They dont want to use existing infrastructure and bring expensive projects. It is the case with many projects undertaken by private players everywhere.

idontspam's picture

Wastage

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Most of the time there is no clue on the existing infrastructure. No map, no clue where the leaks are no idea where the water is going. A lot of the existing infra has been made to waste by kith & kin contracts.

BWSSB in bangalore dug up the entire street in front of my house before they could find the correct line to link our sewer to. In the process they encountered 2 defunct lines apart from the newly laid good one. Talk about wastage.

WHat would be waste is, if after rehauling the entire network we still dont have a clue which line goes where. Effort should be to get a map done & verify the network & keep it updated using modern technologies instead of trashing about with legacy infra modified many times over without changing the paper drawings.

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