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One convincing reason for us to use public transport and bicycles

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Public Transport
They say a picture says a thousand words. Here is a poster that show the space occupied by same number of people using Cars, bus and cycles.
Can it get any more convincing than this?
Courtesy: Core77 blog.

Comments

murali772's picture

fantastic!

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Fantastic, Shaastriavare! I am broadcasting this to the world.

 

Muralidhar Rao

Muralidhar Rao
narayan82's picture

this is a brilliant poster -

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this is a brilliant poster - can we do a photo shoot and replicate it for Bangalore?
Narayan Gopalan
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
betashe's picture

Eloquent Fotos!

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I must congratulate you on the wonderful pics!  They so eloquently tell the story of mismanagement of resources by the elite, whose sins of ommission and/or commission impact the lives of the majority.

 

However the time has long come to change that and not let the elite minority get away with such decisions.  The common man is no less a stakeholder in the sustainability of his environment.  

 

It is well-known that people's involvement is vital to effective public policy.  But in our case we are getting more and more alienated...

 

We need to voice our opinions much more vociferously than before and try to take to task our elected representatives, especially at the local Municipal level.

 

It was this coordinated public voice that could make an elected Municpality toe the line in Mexico City and ban all motor vehicular traffic from the inner regions of the city, some years ago, in an effort to contain the traffic snarls.

 

Here, our leaders are too busy feathering their own nests, to even dream of saving the city and its people from the massive vehicular population...

Rather the RTO makes hay and traffic unleashes havoc on the streets...

 

betashe

tsubba's picture

awesome pic

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good psyops pic 3. meanwhile folks please dont ignore those beauties next to the road. checkout the setbacks and checkout the facade. any lessons for bangalore there? as i said before the city itself is a mall.
blrsri's picture

cars..necessary evil?

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Then we can do carpooling..for blr folks there was an interesting news article today..

http://www.indiaprwire.com/pressrelease/internet/200803288396.htm

Seshamani's picture

Decongest the roads

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This is a great picture - the bus appears to be the best solution - spacewise. It is a good solution, but has limitations. The dynamic space that the bus actually needs on the road is much more than its outline indicates and also it causes fear among other users.

 

Considering the width of the roads in our city, one would be better off with narrower buses. Such buses would be better for other road users too. Less threatening and leaving some space for other vehicles.

 

Further, one could eliminate seats in at least 50% of the buses, use rear engined chassis buses and lower the floor of the bus, so that passengers can use these more easily. Distinguish these buses with a different colour, so that a user would know what type of bus he or she is getting into.

 

Cars take up too much space. But provide a complete travel solution. Charge for this convenience. Introduce electronic means to measure the presence of a vehicle in specific areas and charge for this. Such systems exist in London and Singapore. Decongest the place by charging for it and shift people to cycles, public transport, or walking. As different locations become congested, introduce such systems progressively.

 

Also, introduce vehicle free zones. This is prevalent in quite a few European cities.

murali772's picture

So, bus is the answer. But, - -

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So, bus is the answer - more importantly, better buses and good services. But, clearly, that cannot happen if left to government monopolies, or even the BLUELINE (Delhi) kind of operations - the organised sector has to be brought in. For more, read: http://bangalore.praja.in... Muralidhar Rao
Muralidhar Rao
silkboard's picture

BMTC - its authority and structure

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I wonder if Bangalore's institutions are setup for good coordination amongst various urban/public service bodies. Like say if BMTC wanted to move all those bus stops that exist right on or after big road intersections (Silk Board, KR Puram, Marathahalli etc are examples that I readily recall), can Mr Tripathi do it all by himself? I dont think BMTC manages or owns the road or pavement spaces? Say if BMTC wanted to turn extreme left lanes of ORR into semi-dedicated bus lanes. How much will it be for Mr Tripathi to enforce no-parking and no unauthorized tea stalls along the sides of the road? Mr Muralidhar Rao, shall we start a series of posts here to setup quality debates and discussions on all things around upcoming BMLTA and BMTC? It could range from insights into how they work and make decisions, to suggestions and constructive criticism of their setup and operations.
navshot's picture

Bus - experiences

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Here is a case study:
Our company is a medium sized one (say around 1500 employees). About 60% own cars and most the rest own 2 wheelers. There was an initiative to start good bus service and some of the employees themselves took lead to help co-ordinate. An exhaustive study was made and a majority (>50%) of the vehicle users expressed their willingness to use the service. Taking real location of the employees' houses, an extensive network of routes were drawn up. Keeping the volume in mind, limited number of trips were fixed (there was a trade-off between cost and number of trips). And the service was contracted to BMTC. After about 2 years of its service, the whole thing is only partly successful. Only about 25-30% of the users only switched to the bus. Some of the main reasons why people didn't switch to bus are thus:
1. The trip timings are not suitable (some drop off their kids to school in the mornings; some others have late evening conference calls)
2. Due to low volume, some routes are very lengthy and hence takes more commute time compared to 2/4 weelers.
3. Inconvenient to go for shopping enroute.
4. Occasionally the busses arrive late/don't turn up.
Ofcourse, here are some of the advantages (as told by users and non-users!):
1. No stressful driving
2. Fixed time at office, so more efficient
3. Can read while commuting
4. Save on fuel costs
and so on. BTW, I'm one of the guys who switched from car to bus :-)
-- navshot
murali772's picture

'Kingfisher' is the answer

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Now, supposing the buses were operated by 'Kingfisher', wi-fi enabled, newspapers and magazines for reading, and perhaps even with stewardesses serving chilled beer on the evening runs, and the buses trackable through "Yelli Iddira?" (check out http://www.clinf.com/yi/Y...) service, wouldn't the ridership shoot up straightaway? That's what needs to happen. Let's demand it.

 

Muralidhar Rao

Muralidhar Rao
Naveen's picture

Bus Services - Even on narrow roads

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Some bus pictures - operating even on narrow roads with exclusivity. http://flickr.com/photos/13879352@N07/sets/72157604323887134/ Why can we not have the same ?? PS: I request someone to pls display the pics here, if possible. [Done. -Admin.]
Vasanth's picture

We need the Buses of Kingfisher Standards

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We need Buses with the interiors and exteriors of Kingfisher style running through rich areas. That will takeaway most of the car riders and attract them to Buses. Since Vijay Mallya is running his core business out of Bangalore, he can contribute.

 

Other prominent players like Reliance will also start and we may have to go for IPL like bidding.

navshot's picture

Kingfisher?

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Murali, Vasanth,
If you guys are suggesting it in response to my case study, just forget it. In our case, there was a real struggle to make the routes viable/sustainable with ordinary BMTC busses itself. The real issues are nothing to do with comfort. They are the ones that I have described. How can we solve those? Some of those issues would be valid even in the case of car-pooling.
-- navshot
tsubba's picture

Woodpecking

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navshot thanks for that study report. i am bookmarking that post. i am very interested in the route planning. it will be great if you can share some details on that. how about consistency? what is the variance in vehicle trip times? also how many routes and what are the trip lengths? in terms of the bus itself, what is the occupancy?

The population of Bengaluru

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The population of Bengaluru is too large in contrast with European cities who use such bus services.

navshot's picture

Ts, That's a lot of

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Ts, That's a lot of information. Give me some time and I'll compile the details and see how best to share it.
-- navshot
Naveen's picture

Population of Cities with BRTS

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mcadambi - those pictures with narrow lanes are probably from cities in South /Central America & not from European cities.

Also, many large cities have adapted BRTS, with some services surely being operated on narrow lanes with exclusivity :

 

Cities (population above 10 lakhs) with operational BRTS :

Country  City  Population

Australia  Brisbane  18 lakhs

Australia  Adelaide  11 lakhs

Australia  Sydney  43 lakhs

Brazil  Curitiba  17 lakhs

Brazil  Sao Paulo  109 lakhs

Canada  Ottawa  11 lakhs

Chile  Santiago  54 lakhs

China  Beijing  85 lakhs

China  Changzhou  21 lakhs

China  Guangzhou  76 lakhs

China  Hangzhou  64 lakhs

China  Huaian  52 lakhs

China  Kunming  57 lakhs

China  Shanghai  144 lakhs

China  Shenzhen  82 lakhs

China  Taichung  10 lakhs

China  Xian  27 lakhs 

Colombia  Bogota  70 lakhs

Ecuador  Guayaquil  38 lakhs

Ecuador  Quito  18 lakhs

France  Paris  120 lakhs

France  Toulouse  11 lakhs

Guatemala  Guatemala City  12 lakhs

Holland  Amsterdam  14 lakhs

Indonesia  Jakarta  83 lakhs

Japan  Nagoya  22 lakhs

Mexico  Mexico City  87 lakhs

Mexico  Monterrey  11 lakhs

Mexico  Leon  13 lakhs

Peru  Lima  76 lakhs

S Africa  Capetown  35 lakhs

S Korea  Jinan  59 lakhs

S Korea  Seoul  103 lakhs

Taiwan  Kaohsiung  15 lakhs

Taiwan  Taipei  26 lakhs

Tanzania  Dar-es-Salaam  25 lakhs

Thailand  Bangkok  57 lakhs

USA  Las Vegas  17 lakhs

USA  Miami  41 lakhs

USA  Boston  44 lakhs

USA  Los Angeles  129 lakhs

USA  Orlando  20 lakhs

USA  Pittsburgh  28 lakhs

Venezuela  Caracas  27 lakhs

Vietnam  Hanoi  34 lakhs

Vietnam  Saigon  64 lakhs

santsub's picture

Awesome Post with the BRTS cities

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I found this via wikipedia on BRTS and Pune and New Delhi have been listed to be BRTS cities in India - well Pune is already boasting a BRTS system here is the link to their website.

http://www.pmtpune.org/html/about_us/brts.asp

 

Delhi's BRT has no website listing yet...

Naveen's picture

Pune BRTS

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Santsub - thanks.

Pune is the pioneer in India for this concept - cheers to them ! Understanding this concept, & realising it's benefits will take some time in India as most are unaware & feel that it wont work because "road space would be taken away, what we require is more road space". However, the truth is actually quite different as pictures at the beginning illustrate the reality very well.

There are cities that are more congested than bangalore that are using this system & moving people very well, but sadly, this type of transport, which is the most economical & cost-effective, has too many critics & few supporters.

The authorities also fear the public & the media's reaction & have not even begun any test or trials yet.

Good point about cities

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Good point about cities naveen. Not to dredge up arguements for the sake of arguements, but i was wondering if the *population densities* of those cities could also be a factor for consideration.

tsubba's picture

brts

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pardon the long post. this turned out longer than imagined. naveen that is a comprehensive list. a good reference list. i think i know where you are headed. some months ago i started a small list on metro. abandoned it midway after a system crash. i wanted to compile population, total network length, network length by mode, ridership by mode for a few cities. a few heavy cities, few medium ones and a few light ones. then we can see if the network density has any effect on effectiveness of public transport. i have a suspicion that irrespective of the mode, network length is important for effectiveness. not just in the obvious way, but in terms of self sustenance and effectiveness. just 1 line here and another there even if on the densest corridor will not cut it. ridership is a function of network size. coverage is very very important. in that list i suspect some cities with just HOV lanes to show have sneaked in. if we do effectiveness trips_by_buses/total_trips type of tests, i bet half these cities will come cropper. for example, in the us there are quite a number of cities which are trying to solve the rush hour problem and have self righteously come up with these HOV lanes without doing anything about transit itself. things like car pooling are outcomes of that type of thinking. cute sounding, but nothing more. how many cars do you have to pool to solve hosur road problem? bus systems in the us atleast are a big joke. if you follow the metrics and usage stats in fha reports on bus systems and look at their metrics, you will die laffing. laskmeshwara in gadag district has more ridership than what these folks are trying to achieve. ok rhetoric, but the point is, even if i may not have been comprehensive, i have not seen any designs in fha reports capable of handling more than 20 people at a stop. and these guys go by the book. in the pic SB posted there are more than 20 people in the middle of a bridge waiting for a bus. but bus systems have their advantages. infinitely flexible and reconfigurable. thus can be very responsive. and they have a reach which ROW systems can only dream of. but they are not for long hauls and for high volumes. It is a misnomer to call what ever they are going to do on ORR as BRTS. RITES' prescription is to reuse existing intersections rather than redesign them to facilitate BRTS, when the entire game of BRTS is in intersection design to achieve quazi ROW. midblock ROW is fine, but if you cant negotiate an intersection in good time, there is no way this thing is going to be rapid. and unless it is rapid, there is no way it can serve as a good long haul solution. Average trip distance in bangalore is 9kms. for reference, silkboard to electronic city is 9 kms. at the far end of hosur road, at points south of electronics city, there are 30k vehicles. how many buses do you need to solve hosur road? what about the mother of all high volume roads in bangalore, bellary road? yeshwantpura or even ORR? again, i may be wrong. but murali and vasanth (god bless their souls) have been dropping crucial data points on buses in blr -- whether it is bmtc abandoning grids, or ellideera. these might be outliers, but i have been making a living out of saying that outliers are nothing but un-modeled dynamics so i have to make my case on this one. here is my HYPOTHESIS. bmtc is finding it difficult to do long haul. with increasing congestion it has become very difficult for it to perform at any meaningful level of service. grids are taking long and ellideera is revealing embarassing stats, for example. so they dropped both of them. much of all this is due to the reality of blr. there is a very high volume of private vehicles. as many imaginary pitched battles i have fought with erstwhile justice saldhana, i agree with him when he says that the palike cutting thousands of trees has not translated to even a 1% improvement for bangalore. on a similar train of thought, it would be very very interesting to figure out how many buses are there too. piecewise, adhoc solutions are not the way to go. my basic diagnosis is this: we all know what the design levels of bangalore's roads. what this means is, per kilometer the entropy(chaos) levels on the roads are the same through out the city on an average. as you increase the trip length, entropy(chaos) adds up. which means any given metric, like reliability, trip times etc etc all have high variance, aka uncertainty. and high variance is bad news for metrics. i would love to sink my teeth on bmtc records, ticket sales, trip lengths, trip times etc etc and test this hypothesis against that. i am fairly certain, that my hypothesis will hold up. and yet bmtc has concentrated on long haul. when the contributors of entropy is short haul trip count. here is a pointed question- would blr be better if bmtc concentrates of intra hub transit and let all inter hub transit to ROW systems?
Naveen's picture

Metro & Rapid Bus

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mcadambi & TS - noted yr point. Canton, or Guangzhou, a city north of Hongkong is an example. It was nothing more than the poorer chinese cousin, north of the rich HongKong in 1992 when I first went there - a settlement of a large no. of low-skilled, low-cost labourers with few wide roads, feeding the enormous needs of HK & it's exports. With it's proximity to HK, today it has become larger than HK itself ! & nearly as wealthy - there are high rises & signs of progress everywhere. GSL, or Guangzhou shipyard ltd is now offering stiff competition to South Korean yards !

Despite this extremely rapid rise, transportation is no problem at all as harsh measures were taken when needed - Guanghou has banned bikes recently, rapid bus & metro have eased all congestion & it's very easy to go about, some english signages are seen on the streets now, a sign of it's close proximity to Hong Kong. I feel that the total area of roads in Guangzhou may be the same or lesser than in Bangalore, but it is being managed extremely well.

Metro & Rapid Bus are quite different. Metro is suitable for the very dense CBDs type of development whilst BRT can be customised & made functional as required, & is also open to change easily & inexpensively - this is why I beleive this can work well for Indian cities with changing needs every few years due to rapid development, & we need to recognize & 'cultivate' it soon.

Our country's 'democartic' transportation needs are unique - & Bangalore's problem is even more unique within this unique country - you have a very large percentage of brand conscious high-tech & engg industries that is eductaed, well travelled & aware & demand multi-level garages & urban expressways since there are no transport services that offer any quality in services & private cars are the only option. The traditional industries & the petty buisnesses are quite content with the level of service offered by BMTC as it exists today.

In Mumbai or Kolkata, or even Chennai - this is not the case. The poor standards maintained by public buses & trains is more acceptable than it is in bangalore by the public at large, since by percentage, the 'hep' crowd is small in these cities.

About routes - amidst this forest of confusion, BMTC is trying it's best to provide long haul routes to minimize interchanges as changing buses is not appreciated by the travelling public.

BMTC & BRTS could & should work as described by you - BMTC should provide services out of hubs to various destination locations whilst Inter-hub transit must be well covered by BRTS. However, some overlap is unavoidable & will occur. The key is of course to prioritize public buses, wherever possible & increase the service quality to make it car-competitive - I dont think there is any other way out of this mess. Magic boxes, flyovers, elevated roads - these may release pressure only for a short duration. If the additional road space & conveniences are used for public transport needs, it might be better.

navshot's picture

Ts, Can I send a mail to you

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Ts,

Can I send a mail to you with details? The study details are in files (excel, etc.). If yes, can you figure out my email-id from my profile?

-- navshot
admin's picture

can always contact another member

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this way.

- login to Praja.in first

- then go to the user's profile page, do this by clicking on user's name next to his/her post or comment

- on the profile page, there is a contact tab.

- click on this tab which will be sent to the user's registered email address.

- the email be sent as if it was sent by your registered email id. So the user can reply back to you at your personal email id.

[sorry if you already knew this, wrote the steps in case others didn't know] 

silkboard's picture

reducing chaos/entropy - how?

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TS, assuming uniform chaos (entropy) on all the roads, the theory about predictability going down with distance is correct.

One mistake being made all around is widening of roads without any serious measure to control the entropy. Without lane and parking discipline, widened roads only provide more space for particles to move and knock around thus increasing the entropy. More shrunk the space, lesser the chaos as particles are forced to observe order.

Some examples of this theory. 1) Sarakki road (connects Jayanagar 9th block to J P Nagar). Its a narrow road which you would think will get jammed any moment, but it doesn't. Because anyone parking on the side, thus blocking the road, is immediately made aware of his misdeed by the first obstructed vehicle/driver. 2) Widened road that goes through Marathahalli. There is more space on the roads now, extreme lefts are used for halting, parking and walking. There are umpteen cuts in the divider, which no-one minds as drivers 'feel' they can always drive around the vehicles waiting to take U-turns. Net result is a widened road gone waste even though you "feel" as if Marathahalli has become easier to drive through.

Fighting this entropy is important, there is no way to work around it. The expensive ways are to build things like toll roads over storm water drains, elevated roads over highly chaotic areas (Metro too, isn't it). And these expensive projects have to planned well, they need to provide end-to-end low entropy "corridors", otherwise you may create few but very heavy unmanageable points of chaos. The cheaper ways would involve working systematically on selected corridors to reduce entropy. This could require

  • demolishing certain illegal buildings,
  • forcing lots of basement shops to close, and use those for parking as intended
  • enforcing lane discipline,
  • bus bays displacing pavements to keep uniform road width (as blrsri said in a post)
  • pedestrian over bridges
  • and similar.

BMTC is neither in position to hasten implementation of the expensive options, nor the cheaper options. Not sure if BMLTA would be in a position to do that either. Perhaps, Kasturiranga committee's MPC offers the hope.

surajshekar's picture

Hi... Suraj here and this is

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Hi... Suraj here and this is my first post on bangalore praja...!

Regarding the BRTS implementation in Pune, the system and the laning of roads is quite impressive. Middle two lanes (with grills on either side) are meant for city buses and no other vehicles move there. But I felt the pune transport has several more miles to cover. Their efficiency and standard of services is far far low compared to bangalore. Buses are pathetic and there are too many small buses which look like tiny match boxes. Also the "reach" of these buses is very poor. The fleet is small. Naturally, private vehicles or autos are to be banked upon. I observed this implementation on pune-satara highway and felt this system can work well in Bangalore given that BMTC has a huge fleet and the buses are quite well maintained.

First challenge is to get that much road space.  Second is that it also needs public patronage. That is THE most critical aspect. BMTC is suffering here. Will the car dependent white collared people use it? Are they willing to walk a kilometre or two to the bus stop daily (considering their stressful schedule)? That is where I think a good feeder system(shared auto/taxi, buses) is required which can get them to the big hubs from where buses to all the important destinations will be very frequently available. The same public will be willing to do this if they go to mumbai (ie, shared auto to the local stn, train to the nearest stn, again a shared auto or taxi to the office) because there is absolutely NO OTHER GO and the system is same for one and all!! There is no doubt that this system will also work in bangalore but the big challenge is how to implement it? The idea of taxi-BMTC co-ordination for connectivity to BIAL looks pretty good. I just pray that the model works. It might be used for daily transportation needs of bangaore also without trip booking and all that.

blrsri's picture

BRTS? no space!

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Wiki defines BRT as:

BRT attempts to combine the advantages of a metro system (exclusive right-of-way to improve punctuality and frequency) with the advantages of a bus system (low construction and maintenance costs, does not require exclusive right-of-way for entire length, at least at the beginning).

Compared to standard bus service BRT systems with dedicated right-of-way and thus an increased average transport speed can provide more passenger-miles with the same number of rolling stock and personnel. They also offer the prospect of a more fluent ride than a normal bus immersed in stop-and-go traffic.

----------------------------------------------------------

Exlusive right of way? In what way does BMTC now not have this? They are always a menace on the road...overtaking from left right and center..in some parts of blr we instead need to have 'non-brt' to let other vehicles move peacefully..not to be under the fear of getting mowed down..

Also cops maintain their right of way by letting the last bus through before stopping traffic on a lane!

one take away for us is to have the above displayed type of partitioning for the busbays..to contain them at the busstops where they are the most dangerous!

Naveen's picture

Good Post, Surajshekar !

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Surajshekar, welcome - yr post was interseting.

Though BMTC is one of the best run govt public bus services in the country, their image within this city is poor, especially amongst car & private vehicle users, since they compete for space with BMTC buses & end up intruding into each others realm.

This is made worse as motor vehicle owners always argue that the road space is insufficient. For the no. of vehicles on the roads, this maybe true, but no one tries to analyse & think that if the no. of vehicles is reduced with better public transport, it might be beneficial to all.

The authorities have, from the beginning, been succumbing to pressure from the press /media, motor vehicle owners & the pro-growth forces, & have been increasing road supply without succeeding in finding ways to put a stop to the growth in the no. of vehicles.

Attempts by the authorities have also not been diplomatic & many a times, they have tried to snatch away road space for a supposed bus lane, which the motor vehicle owners have now taken for granted as theirs - such attempts will always result in failure.

A tactful way might be to allocate right of ways in all newer developments, such as elevated roads, underpasses, etc. for public buses - this would need to be announced well in advance, so that pressure is stifled right from the start - but the city corpn seems to be still marching ahead with a long list of newer road infrastructure supply to appease private vehicles, without any focus on improving public bus transport. This can be disastrous as these new road developments will soon become insufficient & there will be fresh demands for more.

Citizens' participation & awareness is urgently called for here.

surajshekar's picture

Citizens attitude

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Thanks for the encouragement Naveen. I agree that the image of BMTC is not great amongst the bangaloreans. Both BMTC and public have a stake in this issue.

I have always felt that its the people's attitude and temparament that matters most. Let me just compare the statements of a Bangalorean and Mumbaikar on public transport-

Mumbaikar: " Oh the roads are damn crowded, pushing my vehicle through is stressful, distances are really long, parking problems, humid weather, etc.... Let me stick to train, bus, auto, taxi as others do!!!"

Bangalorean: "Oh the roads are damn crowded, Will the BMTC mammoth push through this? No way!! I can atleast take my two wheeler on to the footpath, do some circus and somehow reach office as others do. Distances are manageable and weather is good. so, 2 wheeler/car zindabad!!!". More than 50% of bangalore residents will give another excuse- "Oh I cant read the kannada route boards which BMTC use"

The thing is, who is willing to co-operate? Where to start? How to convince them? and Who will convince them? It has a tendency to get into a deadlock.

There is so much of inertia in the people(for valid reasons, sometimes personal and egoistic like - The "I can afford" factor,etc... ). We know the revolt of parents against the "safe route to school" initiative. Remarks were like "Anything, but not BMTC". Did the initiative work and is still going??(sorry to ask this as I dont know what happened later)

Any steps from BMTC will fail because all buses invariably have to travel on the same roads and people think as I told above. People will obviously not use any BMTC facility from day one. Existing traffic + More BMTC buses means more traffic -> means more time through BMTC. For 2 wheelers, time taken will not differ significantly, thanks to their innovative, yet menacing driving skills. So the final feedback/inference is that the new initiative by BMTC proves ineffective. Traffic problems worsen.

One more thing is the distance factor. After doing all circus in Mumbai, the output is good and encouraging to the people. They(Even I) feel good to have traversed 25+ kms in an hour and feel its worth the trouble. That sort of feeling can really drive people towards public transport. In b'lore, you do all circus and track back to see that you have covered 10 or 12 kms (only if there are no Vatals/ Gowdas/ Kharges/ Yeddy's durbars on the road). To a large extent, the geography of mumbai also contributes to the efficiency. Run 50 buses from say dahisar or borivali to bandra or dadar (which means minimum 12 areas covered); You feel that the city is connected so well! But you see our 201 or 501, you dont get this feeling, right? I think its not apt to blame only BMTC. People need to care more for the city they live in. The pity is also that for more than half the population, bangalore is not "their city", so the "who cares" attitude is also more.

I think i'll post more under the thread "Suvarna peak hour service feedback"

Suraj

tsubba's picture

chaos

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hey man, thanks for those examples and that imagery. helps a lot. reducing this entropy is important. and worth another thread. (why dont you start one?) but for the purposes of this discussion, chaos cannot be minimzed to the levels where public carriers can work effectively, even if the numbers of vehicles magically reduces to half. even then too many people, including buses, are making independent decisions on speed and direction and target (x,y) (as you said too space). only an efficient system can attract and retain a significant number of people. somebody out to do a study to find out how good the bmtc is in retaining its customers. and that is why right of way for vehicles carrying more people becomes critical. when you pay 150 crores/km for metro, you are not just paying for the cement and concrete and trains, but for the order that rigid structure it brings. think mumbai without its encroached upon tracks. people cannot be shamed into public transit on moral, ethical or behavioral grounds. it is for those who want to impose order, to provide the structure that can create order. without providing any consistent structure, for a PROLONGED PERIOD of time, people cant be expected to submit to some arbitrary imaginary order. and that brings us to your original point.
navshot's picture

Ts, I have sent the

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140 users have liked.

Ts, I have sent the details.

Admin, thanks for the info.

-- navshot
mailabode's picture

Wait till the Ahmedabad BRTS

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117 users have liked.
Wait till the Ahmedabad BRTS gets functional

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