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Questions for BIAL - your turn!

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Aviation

[Update: Date for BIAL trip moved to Sunday, Apr 6th. Unfortunately, only 20 can go. We will give preference to long time members and those who write/comment a lot on BIAL here].

We had recently announced a 'BIA terminal to tarmac' tour for Praja members. In addition to that, the folks at BIAL have kindly agreed to answer any questions that we might have on the Airport. You can ask the bugging question about parking at the airport, handling of road side traffic, passenger and cargo handling etc. We will be taking questions as comments on this post and then will pass them on to BIAL. Then we would post the answers on Praja.

Please restrict your questions to technical and if relevant, financial aspects. We would moderate any question with political overtone, foul language or rant.

In the meanwhile, we are glad to confirm that we have now fixed 30th March as a tentative day for the 'Terminal to tarmac' trip. We will keep the members posted with the details as we become aware of them.

 

Comments

narayan82's picture

great!

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This is great news. I really look forward to the tour. Once question that I am interested in is Explansion Plans - would really like to know whats in store. do you think we could document our trip, with the discussions and maybe post it for the public to view? Also maybe if BIAL would give us some areas where our debates and solutions can help them, then we can more specificaly discuss on that. Maybe - we can all do test runs for time taken to reach from our respective homes/areas.
Narayan Gopalan
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
navshot's picture

Question

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Since BIA promises rapid check-in (and check-out) due to its improved and stream-lined processes, can the reporting time be shortened with respect to flight departure? From what I understand, currently its 1 hour for domestic and 3 hours for international. If we can make it as 30 mins and 1.5 hours respectively, then it would be great and also it can ofset time taken to reach the airport.
-- navshot
narayan82's picture

checkin counters still close

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checkin counters still close 30 mins before boarding, hence you can come in 30 mins before your flight... Dont know if boarding & s/check can be done for a plane of 180 pax in 30 mins... check out time can be done if baggage arrives faster and in a phased manner. same you have a category in your b/pass that has "a" or "b" on it, and all "a"s are in one section of the belt or something..so you dont have people crowding around 1 part....
Narayan Gopalan
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
bangalorean's picture

How many gates does BIAL Support

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When ever i saw the pictures or reports of BIAL, i used to wonder how many gates does BIAL support. A quality airport would support minimum of 20 gates (not sure just my guess).

Recollecting that the bangalore HAL airport supports only 2 gates where passengers can directly board theflight. Other gates are walkin gates, where people are ferried to the planes by busses etc...

Wondering how much does BIAL support, if it is less than 20, then it is your guess how good is BIAL??????

narayan82's picture

when i went there last they

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when i went there last they rold me there were 16 8 aerobridges and 8 gates for the busses.The remote stand gates (busses) are on the floor below the aerobridges. These gates are also used for arrival of the busses which ferry passengers from remote parking stands one of the 8 aerobridges is twin arm - i belive it is to conect 2 doors of the same aircraft for faster boarding. probably makes sense for the 747s/A340s
Narayan Gopalan
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
Naveen's picture

BIAL Tour

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Hi Folks ! Greetings.

Count me in for the tour - my family (around 4-5 members) are also keen to see developments, etc.

Will revert soon with no. of persons.

hello all,

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hello all,

This is a mark of success of "praja" and it's contributors / subscribers. Such success should be translated into firm action and effective solutions to all stakeholders of "namma bengaluru"

Please count me in along with 4 other friends of mine.

pbatny's picture

Hope the tour happens on 6th

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Hope the tour happens on 6th April..I am currently Traveling. I really wish to attend that tour.

If not Is it possible to have it in batches. First batch on 30th and second 6th April

Thanks

Prasad

narayan82's picture

admin, let me know if you

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admin, let me know if you need help with logistics...have spare time on me hands!
Narayan Gopalan
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore

I suggest members make a

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I suggest members make a small list about points they wish to discuss with the authorities before hand.

Ideally, given our special invite from BIAL, we should use this oppurtunity to appreciate the strengths of BIAL and offer constructive criticism about their weaknesses as well.

We can also, from the position as end user citizens, petition authorities in the Ministry of Civil Aviation et al, in order to provide an overall solution to the airport crisis of our city.

kbsyed61's picture

Can not make it but here is my list

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1. Passenger Drop off and pickup Plan

2. Amenities for Children, Aged and disabled passengers

3. Food and snacks availability - 24/7

4. Amenities for spending long hours for transit or long haul passengers

5. Special areas for Praying (like Namaz) and meditation.

6. 2nd Phase Expansion details

 

tsubba's picture

Questions

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water for BIAL. Since Devanahalli is a severely water constrained area, what are the steps being taken by BIAL to recycle rain and gray water at the airport facilities and at allied facilities like airport hotel and airport city. have these systems been audited by an agency such as the TERI? Airport city. eventually, BIAL will get a rail link from the city. Apart from a stop at the terminal(s) will there be a stop that will allow people working/staying at the airport city to use the train? Landside traffic. we have been using pictures such as these to figure out the landside traffic movement. 1) is it possible for BIAL to publish schematic describing the flow of landside traffic that shows the flow and facilities? for example, access road to drop off/pick up -> drop off/pick up to airport exit via access road. pick up/drop flow and zones for those arriving/leaving the airport in buses. taxi lots, parking lots- zones and capacity/zone. pedestrian flow between the parking lot and terminal. and pedestrian flow between bus/taxi lots and the terminal. a schematic like that would help us and other users of BIAL in navigating through the airport. toufeeq@flickr 2) is the exit road the one immediately south of the parking lot, or the one further south of this road(next to airport hotel) 3) at how many points are passengers allowed to cross the roads in front of the terminal? are there systems to enforce that at only these points pedestrian crossing is possible? 4) will traffic wardens be employed at the land side to manage the flow? are arrival and departure traffic staggered on the same road or they on the two parallel roads in from of the terminal? 5) will this horizontal separation of arrival and passenger traffic be the norm for all future expansions? is it possible for future expansion to incorporate vertical separation in the new terminals?
bangalorean's picture

This number is just paltry

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I was also wondering if there are seperate lanes for arrival and departure, like flyovers. Arrival at one floor and departure at another floor. This is an international standard. If this not seprated then once again as pax increases then it would be complete chaois............... in single floor.

 

BIAL seems to be just OK to manage????? Any thoughts

Naveen's picture

Will assist, if required

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Admin,

I refer to narayan82's mail - I am also available for any assistance that may be required - I have a lot of spare time, too.

Naveen

christopher's picture

Parking

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Are there any long term parking lots planned, so that one can drive the car to the airport in the morning, park the car and board the flight and return in the evening, pick up the car and drive off home. This can be extended for 2 or 3 days and of course you have to pay for it....
christopher's picture

Disabled friendly?

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Another question I have is..How disabled friendly is the airport? The current HAL airport is a hopeless case in this.

Disabled friendliness

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In most airports around the world, there are provisions for disabled parking as well. It is much more closer to the terminal entrance than other positions.

 

We need to set standards by taking the initiative in BIAL.

madhu_nr's picture

BIAL Tour

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Great news about the tentative date of 30th. How is the trip being planned?

 

Madhu_nr

Madhu

tsubba's picture

Your set of questions on ATC

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perhaps, a sample of these questions. http://bangalore.praja.in...
tsubba's picture

gates to parking?

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i too was wondering why people are still being ferried to remote gates in buses. i too have seen that many small airports have more than 8 aerobridged gates. HIAL also has a similar number. why is it that? isn't this busing more energy intensive solution, over the long run? wouldn't a bigger terminal to support more bridges be cheaper in the long run? also are you saying that people will be bused directly between car/bus parking lots in front of the terminal to tarmac behind? that brings me another question. why such a big airport city? will airport the city restrict the ability of BIAL to expand beyond 40 mil & beyond 30 years of this concession? could a part of the city have been used to build a longer and bigger terminal in future? utlimately, what is the potential of BIAL? at what level will it max out? but this is a secondary question, 40 million is a lot of capacity. but still worth asking, i think. the main question is land side traffic, as bangalorean asked. the terminal is two level internally, but the land side has one level access. how efficient is this? and also since the existing masterplan says ultimately there will be a H shaped terminus, will it be possible to make the rest of the terminals have two level land side access? bcoz there is only access road and you have to pass through the current terminal before you can reach the other arms of the terminal
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kbsyed61's picture

Keep those Question for AAI to answer.

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I would nor recomend these question for this tour. Keep these for AAI to answer.
santsub's picture

terminal to gates and gates in to the flight should be the ans!

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I have been wondering about this from day one the plan was displayed. Why use busses to ferry passengers from gates to the aircraft.. The design should have been with concourses where in there is an internal commuter train (Also approachable by walkways) that takes passengers to the concourses and then board their respective aircrafts.

I am not sure how the H shape of the terminal will work because landside like TS said has only one approach road which will force everyone to pass the current terminal and then move on to the terminal that will be built in phase 2.

Though having a single large terminal with north and south wings is great and can handle even 100 mi Passengers eventually if they had designed the airport with concourses. It would have been a easy to execute expansion plans by adding more concourses between the 2 (or 4) runways.

 

Even Beijings new airport uses this design very efficient with a single large terminal. To compare BIAL I think it should have gone on the lines of Hartsfield International (Atlanta) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartsfield-Jackson_Atlanta_International_Airport

http://www.atlanta-airport.com/Default.asp?url=sublevels/terminal/termmap.htm

thebangalorean's picture

Questions for Brunner and Co.

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1. Even in the most developed countries, cities take a lot of pride in the way their airports look and are perceived to be since airports serve as a gateway to the city and often are symbolic of a city's economic standing and potential. Given this, what brief was the team that designed the terminal at BIAL given? The industrial, 1960s look of the terminal has come as a major disappointment for most Bangaloreans, who after more than a decade's wait were hoping that the new international airport would serve as a symbol, why, even driver of Bangalore's economic resurgence.

 

2. In the absence of vertical separation of arrival and departure paths, how does BIAL hope to minimize chaos arising from criss-crossing of arrival and departure traffic?

 

3. Are their plans to provide options for affordable basic needs like food and snacks given that there are no options in the vicinity? There has been an outcry over outrageous pricing of the very basic food and beverages at the HIAL.

 

4. Are there self baggage weighing machines where passengers can check the weight of their check-in baggages themselves and make changes to bring it within the allowable limits? This is particularly required for international departures and will ensure that errant passengers don't hold up check-in queues.

 

5. For 27 million capacity, Delhi International Airport Limited is building a terminal of approx. 400,000 sq mts. Why is BIAL constraining 11 million passengers to just 70,000 sq

mts?

 

6. BIAL seems to have under-planned for almost every facility. While the 12 million capacity, HIAL terminal has 12 aerobridges, BIAL only has 8. Was cost a driving factor?

 

 

narayan82's picture

I think BIAL is more

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I think BIAL is more ergonomic - with 70,000 sqm it handles 11.5 mill/annum and HIAL is 125,000 for 12 million people/year. IDEA::: On Sunday the Vaayu Vajra busses are running to BIAL. BMTC is doing a free trip for anyone interetsed in sampling it. Can we club this with our meeting with BIAL? woudl be awesome!
Narayan Gopalan
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
santsub's picture

Guys who ever is lucky

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Guys who ever is lucky enough (I should say) are going on the tour - please ask every question that has been posted here and get some answers. I would request you to get as many pictures from all angles so that we can see how our "functional" airport was built... I am curious to see how Bangalore compromised with an airport that it has waited for decades with an average design. Hope Mr Brunner has some good grandoise plans for phase 2 to make it totally different.


Atleast these buses are ready and are awesome

http://www.mynews.in/fullstory.aspx?storyid=3335

 

silkboard's picture

good chance ...

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that our BIAL trip will happen on one of these buses (mentioned by Narayan above). They are trying to arrange a pick up for us on a BIAL special Vajra bus at Cubbon Road on Apr 6th, but this is not confirmed yet. So if we are lucky, 20 of us will sample it all, the new bus, the roads, and the airport itself. Lets see.
tsubba's picture

TtT

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that'll be awesome. though in the greater interest of things, it will great if we have a few people doing the the ITPL to BIAL, some EC to BIAL, somebody else BSK to BIAL, perhaps a HAL to BIAL. The westenders are never in the news anyways. :) they can take the bus. :) :)
Naveen's picture

BIAL Tour

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I hope the tour takes place on 6th-April, as scheduled. Since there is a restriction of only 20, if this number is exceeded, can others go by car & join the others ?

 I have a query - the airport's capacity will be about 11 million pass/per annum at opening. This number will be insufficient within say, one or two years as news reports have suggested that there are almost 15 new carriers that are interested in operating out of BIAL, including several long haul flights to 'Frisco & other US destinations. Thus, it appears that steps to expand need to commence almost immediately after opening. What steps are being taken to minimize inconveniences to users ? & with the expansion, & increased no. of users, a rail link would become a necessity. Why is Monorail not being comsidered ?

 Scomi has launched a new Monorail system with increased capacity (over 6,000 passengers per hour at a headway of 6 minutes, which is enough for an airport capacity of about 35 million). Why are such options not being considered & why is an enormously expensive fast rail being considered ?

 Monorail installations costs are usually met by the company & since ridership is assured, financial risks will also be minimal.

narayan82's picture

A malaysian firm - offered

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A malaysian firm - offered to build Metro/Mono rail for bangalore free... Wonder where they are now! When will know of the 20 people list?
Narayan Gopalan
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
vikram_huruli's picture

Excellent chance...

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It would be great if I get a chance to go. It was through this forum that i got into the skyscrapercity forum, and have been a regular member there for almost a year.

My questions to BIAL would be:

1. If the IAF declines to part with the land for the second runway, would there be a second runway at all. If yes, how long would it take to build it.

2. Would there be two level arrival/departure at new terminal, or would the terminal have almost the same design as the present one.

Request to other members: I wish I get a chance to go, but if I can't, please make sure to take lots of photographs.

madhu_nr's picture

BIAL tour

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Hi,

I seem to have a confusion on the actual tour date. Is it 30th March or is it 6th April? Pl confirm.

Who are the twenty that have made it to the list? How do you plan to coordinate this trip? If we are to take the Vaayu-vajra bus, we need to plan to congregate there at a specified time. I am sure the site coordinator is aware and would be giving us all thsi, plus more appropriate info., like duration etc.

Hoping to hear the details from you.

Regards

Madhu

Madhu

madhu_nr's picture

Ooops - Saw the update of visit date after writing above comment

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Okay, saw the updated date later. Thanks. Other questions remain. Also some more:

  • Will there be a meeting point area to receive arriving passengers? What is the fee for entry to such points?
  • Is there a facility for ltime parking - for instance if I'm making a two day trip to Delhi, can I leave my car safely in such a place? what will be the charges?
  • Do they have covered stairs - aircraft entry/exit where there are no aero-bridges - for monsoon?
  • How big is the transit lounge and are there comfortable chairs to stretch out?
  • Is the duty free shopping area accessible from the transit/arrival/departure areas (post security check)?
  • Do they have visibility inside (through transparent glass separators) for receiving parties to see the arriving passengers? Many times there is a crowding at the arrival points due to the anxiety/eagerness of friends/relations to greet their arriving dear ones. Transparent panels would prevent this crowding and one sees no security hazard in such a facility.
  • Can the departing passengers come out to the departure send-off points after check-in - Specially in international terminal? This is not allowed in the HAL airport and one sees no logic in this. In fact, crowding could be reduced if passengers can move out for a final cuppa with the relatives.
  • Alternatively, will the non-passengers be allowed into the check-in departure areas if they have an entry ticket? This helps when elderly persons, first-timers, ladies with children or alone travel. Abroad, this is permitted in almost all airports.

Madhu

shashi's picture

Itz really good that praja

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Itz really good that praja readers would get a chance to visit the airport and check the facilities. I will be waiting for updates from you guyz after the visit.

Meanwhile I Have following questions:

1. How does the expansion plan look like? Will the terminal design look like the present terminal or will it be a brand new design with much better architecture?

2. Does BIAL allow other taxi operators (city taxi etc who are not licenced to operate from BIAL) to enter the departure area?

3. How does BIAL plan to prevent touts/middle men who charge (for customs clerance, luggage handling, forex etc) in the airport?

narayan82's picture

BIAL had mentioned that they

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BIAL had mentioned that they would errect a canopy over the car park - would like to know what stage this is, As its not seen in any picture. The main concern was if it rains and you parked your car in slot no. 1354 - you'll get wet by the time you reach the terminal!
Narayan Gopalan
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
tsubba's picture

canopy

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there are pics of scaffolds for the canopy along the piazza. but between slot 1354 and that canopy nothing. i am guessing ultimately they have do multi-level parking, this maidan design is not going to hold up for long. i am thinking they will have to open up some part of the golf course for parking(long term), eventually.
santsub's picture

Canopy

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TS where are the pics for scaffolds for the canopy? Plus if they build multilevel parking in front it will still not be enough for a growing airport. They will have to figure out some more parking areas outside the airport boundary wall and ferry passengers to the terminal like Park and Fly etc...

 

 

thebangalorean's picture

New photos from HIAL

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http://www.flickr.com/pho...
admin's picture

closing this post for questions now

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We have a lot now. Narayan - Thanks so much for your offer for help. possible to consolidate all questions here and send the list over to us via email (to the admin alias). Naveen - considered Narayan since he posted his offer of help before you. thanks, {Praja admins}

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