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Big 10s Backfire !?

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BusPublic Transport

'Wary commuters avoid Big10 buses' - Deccan Chronicle 5-5-09 page3

Purport: About 100 Big10s are not being used by commuters and the negligent occupancy ratio is contributing to further losses to BMTC - not recognised or popular even after 50 days of intro. 

What is not discussed is the comparison of fare structure and its impact on the economic viability for commuters in such a facility.

Is there a touch of 'class action' in introducing such a 'facility'.

-Vasanth Mysoremath 

Comments

silkboard's picture

Sad to see such comments

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MVK Sir,

I feel sad to see such comments from knowledgeable and experienced people like yourself. Why do we rush to get excited by reports that provide a piecemeal view of BMTC's operations.

One can't go to a car factory and just say that hey, look, the tire division is not making money, or that the body assembly line is not making money. The value is delivered by the whole car, not its parts.

Big 10 or Volvo or any other buses - we need to be patient and understand the other pieces in the puzzle that are not adding up to unlock the full value of BMTC. But if we get into this piecemeal criticism mode, only part of BMTC that will be left standing will be their real estate handling division.

Volvos may be debatable. But jumping to criticize Big10 is a bit much. Regardless of some criticism of the manner (abide etc) in which it is being implemented, Big10 routing is a real and practical attempt at restoring sanity to routing madness at BMTC.

Certainly not advisable to analyze things with tunnel visioned approach.

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

The experience also tells the truth, you can't fix the system..

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SB Sir

Here is what KBS has said in a post above - regarding your Big 10 office commuting experience -cut and paste -

"The experience also tells the truth that, you can't fix the system by adding more fleet and new routes. The intro of HoHo and BIG-10 service is example in the case".

My getting into a mode of excitement - dies an unnatural death -  as soon as I get into an ordinary bus. But as per your advise, I will be happy to see the Red bottom line turn into a Green bottom line of BMTC P & L Account (conditions attached).

-Vasanth Mysoremath

ash.mahesh's picture

Big10 data ...

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I saw the Chronicle piece. A few points ...

It says that customers have mistaken it for private buses because of the colour, and are therefore avoiding it. That's not the same as saying the bus is not popular. In fact, week after week there have been increases in ridership on all Big10 routes since they were introduced, and I'm quite confident that they are growing very popular.

Much of what is in the article is from April 1 (50 days from launch), not relating to 'now'. At that time, only Hosur and Whitefield Big10s had been in operation for more than 6 weeks, and a couple of others for 3-4 weeks. Whereas now we have much better data from many weeks of operation on all routes.

The 'unfamiliarity' with the new services can be fixed through awareness buiding and some of that is beginning now. The Model Code of Conduct put a dampener on public announcements, but the code has now been lifted and a stronger program of communication about the services will be launched.

The article shows the KS route labeled it the Big10 route, and yet it complains about BMTC's lack of awareness building about the product :-) That's life.

A

silkboard's picture

Don't know what to say now

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MVK Sir,

I tried Big10 (do it once a week without fail), liked the buses, fares are low enough (Rs 4-11-?? last time I tried). I reported my objective criticism, noted all problems that prevent me from using it everyday. And I see that Varthur Road Big10s are full even at 10.15 PM.

I like the Big10 driven routing reform plan. New routes have to come, old routes have to go. I saiid better quality buses have to come, bad quality buses have to go.

But if no matter what BMTC does, if we only have to sit and criticize, I am lost on what we get by doing that. BMTC's problems are well known and experienced by most of us who are on this website. Where are the concrete suggestions for way forward? Or more detailed analysis of the P&L or multiple P&Ls inside BMTC?

I would say this MVK sir. Why don't you post just your vision once - how you want the buses to be, how much fare would you want to pay, and how would you want to go from Yeswantpur to Marathahalli, and Rt Nagar to Bommanahalli.

Paint your vision, and work backwards to bring up solutions or highlight problems. We have done that here over last 1.5 years (sad that the guy who drove a lot of analysis, tarlesubba, is in hiding these days), and concluded that routing reforms are essential. Grid-matrix or whatever. Big10 is something in that direction, thats the reason most of us here like the concept.

I know you are not a cynic (reference to your other initiatives like CIVIL). But your BMTC comments go the other way - pure and hard criticism. Why I wonder.

Naveen's picture

Big-10 Here To Stay, Problem of Bunching

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I agree with SB - no point lamenting & criticizing if you do not have feasible suggestions or alternatives. Even I have been noticing the Big-10s going full on Old Airport rd & OMR, though the Bannerghatta ones were seen half empty some two weeks back when I had used it in peak hours (evening - 7PM).

Big-10s can be improved to run across the city on two different arterial roads diametrically opposite whilst slicing through the center. This will provide for longer routes & such routing may help in improving riderships. Eg. Airport road service can be extended past the CBD & on Magadi rd, OMR service can be extended to proceed on Mysore rd, etc.

I think the frequency of other BMTC bus services with bunching is the major concern for many. The quality of buses is not so much of an issue as there are buses to suit every budget now.

The problem of frequency /bunching can be sorted out most effectively only by having DGPS in each bus with tracking from a central location or from multiple locations as the no. of buses & routes are too many, but all this will involve costs.

The other alternative (without use of DGPS) is to post a warden at important end terminals who can monitor & be responsible to ensure that multiple buses do not depart within a short span, but are spaced out evenly, even if departing schedules have to be altered. This will of course create a volatile departure schedule, but at least the waits at intermediate stops (& also at start points) will be reduced as buses will depart at the originally preset intervals as opposed to times by the clock.

BMTC will need to introduce many more of these wardens - at as many terminals as possible. Currently, they appear to be posted only at the big-three city bus terminals (Majestic, City-Mkt & Shivajinagar) & in a few more, such as Shanthinagar, JB Nagar, Malleswaram, Yeswantapur, etc. but these are insufficient. They may need to have many dozens more. Anyone has more inputs on this ?

ash.mahesh's picture

Longer routes, and bunching ...

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You're right on both counts. Big10 will eventually become Big5, with the routes linked as you pointed out. But first I have focused on getting the routes deployed. The depot management needed to do very long routes, as well as driver-shift management, present a different set of problems, and I didn't want those also to complicate the first bits itself.

Bunching is a problem for two reasons (a) some buses are empty, if they are too close to the ones in front, and (b) sometimes passengers have to wait very long times between buses, if they miss a bunch together. Here's my thinking on both these issues.

I think having buses run frequently is not the problem - in fact, it is the solution. What makes it look bad is if the buses are empty as a result. However, keep in mind that 'frequency' is an important part of 'predictability' and therefore high frequency is needed to motivate people to consider the bus, who would otherwise have not planned their trips around buses. It will help to space them out a bit, I agree, using wardens or technology, but GPS could be overkill as a bunching-solving appraoch. It would be better to train the people (drivers and wardens), and use some clever-but-cheap approach like RFID gating to alert drivers about bunching. I'll try out something this month.

Please choose the bus.
Ashwin


Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Thank U SB

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SB Sir

Cynicism is not something that has to be cultivated by any civilised soul - it only acts as a dampener.  I am a deadly optimist and am more interested in finding solutions that have a bearing in a 'class action' mode rather than finding solutions for comfortable travel mode of a miniscule percentage of commuters, albeit they are entitled to such a facility because they have it and pay for it.

But what about the investment aspect - whose money is it anyway? These hi-end facilities are incurring mostly losses and who can guarantee their break even and when will it happen?  Till such time, I will have to enjoy being a  fried chicken in an ordinary bus.  At the cost of aam aadmi's suffering, BMTC is embarking on a misadventure of capital investment on these hi-end facilities for a miniscule percentage of commuters, many of whom have shunned the services and made the BMTC P&L Account have a footnote that 'the profits of BMTC could have been much more but for embarking on .....crores loss due to running of Volvos/HOHO/Big10" . 

Am I hard and wrong in my thoughts?  Let me suggest something - Hive off such services to be funded by those who want such comfortable journey modes because BMTC capital base is not primarily meant for such investments and for heavens sake, do not touch public money and make it sound that BMTC is embarking on a public agenda.  PP Example: 100 crores invested by MNCs for 7 Kms of road leading to comfort zones. 

Tech based Wardens for avoiding bunching:  With due appreciation for a futuristic ambience, let me submit that unless otherwise the road infrastructure improves, the chaos on the streets of the hell hole - Bengaluru improves and road users behave themselves and become civilised enough to follow the lane discipline, bunching cannot be avoided because the traffic lights are not scientifically synchronised, number of vehicles whizzing past amber light are increasing and some BMTC buses whizz past even red light.  Assuming a warden finds 2 volvos following one another to the same destination, will he be able to stop one volvo on the road for a few minutes so that there will be no bunching?  Can one imagine a volvo parked on a busy street and obstructing free movement of traffic?  

-Vasanth Mysoremath   

Naveen's picture

Only Criticism - No Suggestions Yet !

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VKM Sir - referring to the last para in yr post ----

Every city tries to avoid flyovers in the middle - Do you have a solution or an alternative for improving the city's road infrastructure with the serious limitations for widening & without putting up ugly, gigantic flyovers all over ?

Investment in biometrics & IT-enabled voter's ID for all of the population is okay (we are talking here of a mammoth 1.1 billion population), whereas spending on DGPS to monitor movements of buses to improve services is a no-no to you, though buses number in the few thousands in a city, & perhaps only tens of thousands totally in the major cities in this country.

Costs for scientific synchronization of traffic lights seems acceptable to you as also the costs for improvement of road infrastructure but investments to employ more wardens at terminals for real-time streamlining of movements of buses is again a no-no for you !

Strange talk indeed. Are you suggesting that there should not be any innovation or investment to improve our bus services ?

Do you have a solution for improving the behaviour of road users to get them to follow lane discipline ? I was in Mumbai & used a taxi to go from Andheri east to Fort area & back recently. Going past red lights & amber lights is more of a routine there than here when there are no cops - & traffic conditions were far worse. Hyderabad is worse than Mumbai, let alone Bangalore. Chennai is only marginally better. So, all of the big cities are "hell-holes" in this country !

Your example of two volvos following one another suggesting that it is not possible to stop one in mid-route to avoid bunching is quite an extreme.

Please re-read what I had posted - I had suggested that adjustments could be done at the terminals, or end-points where they start or begin a trip to ensure that the pre-planned frequency is maintained, & not in-between as you seem to have assumed conveniently.

As SB said, please make suggestions for improvements instead of being critical of everything to do with bus services.

Rithesh's picture

Big 5 - hope to see it soon

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The Big 5 idea discussed else where on the site and also recomended by Prof AM makes a lot of sense. That is the right way ahead.

I am surprised to know that Big10 has been making losses. I frequently use the Shivajinagar Yelahanka Big 10 bus and there hasnt been a day when i have seen empty seats (forget empty buses). Same is the case on Varthur road. As Prof AM pointed out, it is only the initial teething problem - "swalpa" advertisement campaigns would help.

At some point BMTC should also look at rationalizing the routes on the BIG10 segments - lot has been talked about it, hopefully we will see something positive. BIG10 in isolation may not realize its potential. Also it would be worthwile to consider having dedicated bus lanes on BIG10 routes (atleast on wider roads like Bellary Road and Hosur road).

VKM SIr, please dont bring in "class" angle to this one. BIG10 buses are after all Suvarna buses with a different color and their fare structure is also comparable to that of the normal buses. Whether u like it or not - comfort is a critical criteria for people to switch to PT. Not all of us are like you or me who dont mind travelling in the normal old BMTC buses. At some point we need to get over this rhetoric of classes.

ash.mahesh's picture

performance data ...

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I have been looking at the numbers closely for the Big10 services. I am not sure what the break-even point is, yet (I will get some more doubts clarified tomorrow at BMTC, but definitely there are encouraging signs.

In April, the system EPKM grew 10-11 per cent. And every week the EPKM was higher than the previous week. I expect the next week also to be reasonably good and continue this trend, based on the extensions of Whitefield and Sarjapur services to Mayo Hall (this became effective last weekend, so this would be the first full week we can see its effect).

At least 10 new Big10 buses will be added during the next week or so. When this round of expansion is complete, the frequency on each route will be between 7.5 and 12 minutes in peak hour, depending on the route. I'd like to see sub-8 minute frequency on all routes, hopefully by the end of the summer. And if we're still doing well on EPKM, at that point I would consider Big10 really successful.

Big5 - any ideas for how to do the pairing? i have some thoughts on this, but would like to hear what others think too.

A

 

silkboard's picture

Big 10 and "high end" ?

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MVK sir, let us spare this thread right now as looks like it is turning into a technical and factual one. But just one point sir. Big10 is not "high end". These buses are just painted better and have bit better interiors. The buses in use for Big10 are actually running on other routes as well (I can see 500D, 333E, 335A on same type of buses but painted different). In fact, this "perception" that Big10 is "high end" is actually hurting it - people assume it'd be expensive, it is not!

Perhaps BMTC should have an egg/tomato hurling contest to dirt-paint these Big10s a bit. That may get them 10% increase in footfalls.

MVK sir - let us criticize anyone who wouldn't admit some of the problems we highlight with BMTC services - last mile, crowding, way some of them drive (I think East Bangalore side BMTC drivers are better) etc etc. Let us not give in to Ashwin etc when they say - "BMTC is not in a position to fix this and that, there are constriants". But please treat routing reform concept at its own isolated merit.

Having said above - 2 Big10s bunching together is one thing, but it is not pleasant to see 333E, 328c, 323 etc all lined up and racing with Big10s from Varthur all the way upto Richmond. 333E is a 100% overlap, there are 4-5 more with 90%+. When would Big10 overlapping routes go away? Know its not easy to retire routes, but any strategy towards that - like converting some of these to run only from the designated halli to select Big10 stands which would be upgraded to make it easy for people to change buses.

Rithesh's picture

A few BIG5 suggestions in this thread

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Prof AM - BIG5 routes were discussed in this thread some time back -  http://bangalore.praja.in...

ash.mahesh's picture

pairing the Big10s ...

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I looked at the other thread, but I didn't find what I am looking for right away. Will look again more carefully. Meanwhile, let me explain what I mean.

The easy assumption is that each arm of Big10 should be linked to its diametrically opposite one. But that may not take advantage of local communiting and social patters in different parts of the city. Look at this link from Washington Metro, where 3 of the 5 arms are not diametric connectors. That's the sort of discussion I wanted to have. Should Old Madras Road Big10 be paired with Magadi Road Big10 or Mysore Road Big10 or Bannerghatta Road Big10, or any of the others? I think we can do some field study to collect data as well, and then make this call. But I wanted to see if there are any 'a priori' thoughs on this.

A

ash.mahesh's picture

forgot the link ...

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here it is http://www.wmata.com/rail...

A

Naveen's picture

Pairing of Big-10s

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Prof.Ashwin,

I went through the Washington DC map, consisting of many routes that are more or less "U"s. I had stated diametrically opposite only as an example, to make clear the point, though I agree it may not be so simple & route planning will need careful attention to make them work beneficially for all. I realize that trip lengths & durations will increase & the logistics for operating these longer trips will involve some additional demands, no doubt.

However, combining two Big-10 routes will minimize the no. of routes & also reduce the no. of transfers for commuters. It goes without saying that combining routes would have to be based on commuting patterns & needs between areas /routes, etc.

There will also be the problem of increased bunching if route lengths are extended. Thus, the demand will increase further for attention towards real-time monitoring, apart from considerable delays due to traffic on passage within CBDs, especially if the routes involve circuitous or extensive tracks within the central areas.

The combinations must also ensure that most routes, if not all intersect or at least provide options for interchanges between them to enable commuters to reach their final destinations with only one transfer, so far as possible. Route displays will also need to be changed to clearly "announce" destinations.

Based on the above, I feel that combinations such as these could be tested - they will of course be subject to change/s based on operational experience :

1) Kanakapura Rd - Whitefield Rd (via Corpn, Police Hsg Corpn; & on return via Vellara Jn & Corpn).

2) Magadi Rd - Old Madras Rd (via KBS, Minsk sq, Trinity Circle; & the same on return).

3) Bellary Rd - Sarjapur Rd (via Minsk Sq, Vellara Jn; & the same on return).

4) Mysore Rd - Banaswadi Rd upto Rammurthy nagar (via Corpn, Trinity; & the same on return).

5) Bannerghatta Rd - Hennur Rd upto ORR (via Vellara Jn, Minsk Sq; & the same on return).

6) Hosur Rd - Tumkur Rd (via Vellara Jn & Minsk sq; & the same on return).

I included Banaswadi & Hennur rds as that part of town (NE quadrant) does not have these services, though these are not really amongst the "Big" roads.

Could you advise your thoughts - we have not heard your ideas for combinations. Any comments on the above route choices ?

parisarapremi's picture

BIG5 extentions of BIG10

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Prof. Mahesh,
    I have followed this website for the last year and half. This is my first post.

    With regard to BIG10, I have been thinking of something radical. Why not have a N to N connection or something close.

Option #1: We have a revolving schedule where the first BIG10 from Whitefield goes to Electronic City, the next one from Whitefield to Mysore Road, the third from Whitefield to Tumkur Road .... This way, the 10th bus will again retrace the first bus' route.
    If there are 10 schedules ever hour (meaning - one every 6 minutes), a commuter that needs to travel to a the other end or any point in between will have a frequency of one bus every hour. 
    This way, we can accomplish increased frequency on the original BIG 10 routes and introduce predictability for those wanting to exploit the BIG5 attributes.

Option #2: The above may be a overkill for those routes that will result in a U-Turn - Eg: Airport Rd - Sarjapur Rd, Airport Rd- OMR Rd. Since there is a move to introduce Routes on ORR and IRR, these routes can be removed from the above. This will result in increased frequency on the BIG5s from the one per hour to say one in 45 minutes.
     in addition, for the U-turns, have buses running from say airport rd to sarjapur rd via ring road instead of getting to the city. This can remove a number of cars from the roads as well. Another option is to run a similar service from Airport Rd to Hosur Rd thru ORR.


   After running the above routes, those routes which have less through passengers can be rationalized futher.



Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Let me hybernate a little...Till Red (loss) turns to amber/green

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SB/Ritesh Sirs, and Dear All

Thanks for all the sweet sayings. 

After considerable meditation, my unconscious mind tells me that I will have to  hybernate a little and wait in the wings to watch whether all ye gentlemens' efforts will make the bottomline of BMTC on Volvos/HoHo/Big10 go green. Otherwise.....?!! 

-Vasanth Mysoremath

Naveen's picture

Otherwise....

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BMTC's bottomline is important, but secondary. The objective is to provide more efficient bus services for commuters without losses, if possible. Public tranport is not for making profits but to assist the city commuters' needs.

If the Volvos /HoHo /Big10 fail, we will need to think harder & come up with something else that may work - in any case, this ongoing process will always be subject to refinement even if the Volvos /HoHo /Big10 work well.

silkboard's picture

I suggest that ...

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Everyone who posts critical or analytical stuff on Big10s also post a disclaimer on whether he/she has tried Big10s yet. Clubbing Big10 and Volvo together in these discussions is a criminal mistake - Big10s are NOT high end services, let us not help spread that perception. Big10 is a routing experiment/attempt, Volvo is a brand, a type of service which is not linked to any routing reforms (talk of IT routes is not any structural reform). Big10s may include Volvo buses, or Marco Polo buses later. That is when "high end" critics would get their/our chance to criticize and analyze.

Thank you MVK sir. Appreciate it.

Back to Big10, Big5 and upcoming Ring and local services please.

Where to find the route details and schedules?

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Dear Sir,

     Is there any place where I can see the route details and shcedules for BIG10 and HOHO services?
     These days I am seeing more of these buses on roads.
     Sometimes they are full (people are even standing) and sometimes empty (not a soul to be found other than conductor and driver).

     I live in Jaraganahalli (on Kanakapura Main Road) and travel to Richmond Town and back.
     We have a Big10 going from our place to Corporation.
     But, I don't know which bus to take from Corporation to Richmond Town and back (HOHO Blue or Orange or some other bus)?
     I really want to try these buses.
     If somebody can give suggestions about the buses I can take and links to pages for schedules, I can try the services and then post my experience.

Thanks,
Narendra
 
sanchitnis's picture

Big 5 along the metro route + merging with KS

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1. Use Metro routes:

One heuristic we can use for merging big10 route is merge the 4 routes which are approximately along the metro lines. This can be revisited once the metro is operational.

Old Madras road can be merged with Magadi road Big10

Tumkur road can be merged with Kanakpura road Big 10.

Now Bellary road one can be merhed with Hosur road Big 10.

2. Merge with Kendra saarige: We can also consider the alternative of mergeing Big 10 with KS rather than each other. I think it is more likely that people coming from outskirts have some work in some part of the city rather than opposite part. They will benefit from better last mile connectivity.

3. Third option is to extend the big 10 route to the opposite side of Kedra saarige. For example, instead of terminating Mysore road Big 10 at Hudson circle, extend it upto Gurudwara where Old Madra road Big 10 currently terminates and vice a versa. This will ensure that people can visit CBD points easily without having to change to KS and also continue travel by changing if necessary to opposite side. Also, tickets can be sold in 2 or 3 parts so that people can transfer easily.

Sanjay Chitnis

 

 

 

 

 
sanchitnis's picture

Use proximity cards to track buses

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 Currently DGPS based solutions are being proposed to track buses - start and end times etc. or a 'warden' or controller..

Instead, conductors can be provided with proximity cards (ones used by companies to clock entry exit of employees). which they have to swipe before leaving and after arrival. Now there is small possibility of misuse (swiping the card, but not leaving etc.), but these can be easily checked by commuters and complaints can be raised.

This will help get good data on start end times. The system can provide data to conductors/drivers on last bus left. So they can wait for some prespecified extra time before leaving which they will be happy to do without any incentive :-) 

Conductors can be provided with basic mobile phones which they can use to contact control center in case of major traffic problems, breakdowns and also inform about delays along the route using canned SMS messages. These messages can be processes to generate YI type of data for passangers. Alternately, for long routes, intermediate points can have proximity card readers to keep track of the bus.

Sanjay Chitnis

 
Srivatsava's picture

Routing within CBD...

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Prof. Ashwin,

        The idea of Washington Metro is very simple - Provide more than one interchange from any line to another line, while ensuring that the same station( bus stop in our case) will not have more than three (out of five merged) routes.

         The same reasoning has been conveyed in a comment at http://bangalore.praja.in/blog/rithesh/2009/04/24/revised-kendra-sarige-hoho-routes#comment-13691

        Please check if that can be useful.

      I agree that diametrically opposite may not be the most correct approach to take, since the North-south distance of CBD ( Commercial street - KH road ) is much smaller than the East-west length (KBS - Trinity circle).

      Also, I guess there is no system at present within BMTC to collect the travel patterns ( a commuter is not tracked if he goes from Kengeri to EC or from Kengeri to Whitefield). If such data is available, you could perhaps have other ideas, based more on numbers rather than reasoning..

 

-Srivatsava V

-Srivatsava V

kbsyed61's picture

Prof, what exactly is you are looking for in Washington Metro?

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Prof,

I live in Washington DC Metro area and have used the Washington metro system. Therefore I may be able to answer or provide more information in detail if you could specify what you are looking for in Washington metro?

Regards,

Syed

srkulhalli's picture

Not sure we should be using commuter patterns

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Prof Ashwin

If I remember your intial presentation on Big10, the whole idea was to shift from a destination based system to a direction based system. Makes a lot of sense in a big city like Bangalore. The background was to have bus frequency so high, that changeovers are not painful, and we get into a feeder-arterial kind of system, a la- METRO.

By opening it up to looking at comuter travelling patterns, you are again falling into the trap of a destination based system. Again from your discussion, the beauty of the Big10 is that it just stays on the arterial route,  Extending it to the diametrically opposite is a natural extension of that, even if it is NOT what most of the passengers will be using.

I would think it should be something that is intutive, ie diametrically opposite but with some margin, that is for eg: Hosur road could land up on on Tumkur route or Bellary route, but not say Magadi route or sarjapur road or old airport road.

Suhas

Suhas

Vasanth's picture

Save name Big 10 add another Big 5 and merge existing Big10 to 5

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As I had posted earlier about Merging Big 10 to Big 5, plus add 5 more Big 10 routes, 2 routes are the proposed Metro route which is suffering from Traffic snarls, but are identified as a high traffic corridor as per RITES.

These buses should not enter Majestic. Already we have the hub spoke model buses where every area is connected to Majestic. It will become duplicate of the same existing routes.

One route should run from Deepanjali Nagar on the Mysore Road - Chord Road Junction or  Nagarabhavi Layout and run upto Old Madras road on the proposed Metro Route.

Second route is from JP Nagar to Yeshwantpur via Jayanagar, Shanthinagar, Richmod Circle, Malleshwaram. (Existing JP Nagar to Majestic buses run via Lalbagh west gate).

3 other such corridors should be considered which have high traffic density.

Also, we need to reconsider the fleet of BMTC. BMTC is only thinking of big buses and not mini buses. We need more mini buses such as Tata Starbus and Swaraj Mazdas. The newly built Swaraj Mazdas by JCBL to many companies like Nokia and Philips  also with airconditioning which most of the people look forward looks good. Also cost of these buses will be nearly 1/4th that of Volvos.

 

Using Volvos on these experimental routes will prove costly as it is happening in HOHO.

 

Vasanth's picture

Routes should be published on the Bus

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Earlier, BMTC had introduced MBS bus series with Grid Routes. It succeeded in few routes such as MBS 5 and failed in few.

These buses have the localities painted on the bus. Same way localities where the bus passes should be painted on buses of Big 10 and HOHO routes.

Especially HOHO most of the people do not know where it goes. Most of the passengers complain about this.

 

 

Vasanth's picture

FDR series using mini buses

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I just read in a newspaper about BMTC starting local ring routes near Peenya.

FDR series as it exists between Uttarahalli to Uttarahalli should be started even in other localities connecting to nearest business centre such as Gandhibazaar for localities around Gandhibazaar such as NR Colony, Thyagarajnagar, BSK 2nd Stage, 3rd Stg, 1st Stg, Hanumanthnagar.

Currently, police is not allowing buses in many routes like MG Road main street , only one lane is allowed in Gandhi Bazaar main road (from Taxi Stand to Ashrama not vice versa). This will demote usage of public transport since one has to walk lot of distance to reach the main business area.

Mini buses will have smaller footprint and easier traffic negotiating abilities. Mini locally roaming buses should be started connecting the local business centre locality passing through the main street.

This has to be negotiated with the traffic police by BMTC.  This again should have clockwise and anticlockwise routes again with the same colour and theme as HOHO. Also should have both air conditioned and non-airconditioned buses supporting all class of people.

binaiks's picture

A very good concept... but...

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Hello all,

Big10 is undoubtedly a very good concept. I moved over from normal buses to Big10s over the past week (after a couple of very bad experiences, changing buses at Shantinagar - thanks to the apathic service during evening hours). I travel from Arakere Gate to Lavelle Road (near MG Road) daily. I take the Bannerghatta Road Big10 (numbered these days as "4B10") and travel upto St Patricks Church. From here I change over to an ordinary bus going towards Shivaji Nagar to reach my office. 

In the return direction, I walk down from office to Brigade Road (about 1.1 kms) and then get into a Big10. The service is really nice, and is a very nice shift from Destination based routes to direction based services. 

However, the entire concept is being tried in the midst of normal buses. For example, at 8AM, I have the choice of a Big10 (which usually arrives between 0755 and 0805) or the MBS13 (which departs at 0755~0800). Both these buses would go in the same direction. In case of a Big10, I need to change buses at SPC, while MBS13 would leave me right next to my office! 

At the same time, I could also take a Majestic bound bus and change over at Shantinagar BS. All these choices end up in depleting the passenger base for Big10s. One thing that I have noticed in BG Road Big10 buses is that the highest passenger density is between Arakere Gate to BTM Checkpost/Jayadeva Hospital. This explains the need for Feeder buses on the Bannerghatta Road. 

BMTC does operate feeder buses - BGF1 and BGF2 between Bannerghatta National Park/Jigani and Jayadeva Hospital/Dairy Circle. The need is to operate short feeder buses on roads that radiate away from BG Road. Currently, BMTC has a bus service (albeit with a pathetic frequency) from each Halli to KR Market/KBS. Instead of running a name sake service (which end up getting bunched), there should be feeder buses from each Halli to BG road, which connects to dedicated buses - which operate along Bannerghatta Road to Shivaji Nagar/KBS/Market. They need to operate every 5-15 minutes.

Big10 services are currently too disorganised. Especially those running on Hosur road and BG Road. On Thursday, I was at Brigade Road junction from 1755 to 1830. Two Big10 buses came, but both of them terminated their services there and announced that they were going back to their depot (Shantinagar). The result was that there was no bus for over 35 minutes. Finally, two Big10 buses (both heading to BN Park) came together at 1830. Both the buses filled in seconds, since there were that many people waiting to head to BG Road. 

BMTC has posted a warden outside St Joseph's college (of Management). The Warden allowed both the buses to depart one-behind-the-other. This led to bunching of services. Something needs to be done to ensure that buses are operated at their designated frequency. 

--
Thanks,
Binai Sankar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Switch to Public Transportation, Save your city

--
Thanks,
Binai Sankar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Switch to Public Transportation, Save your city
Rithesh's picture

Prof AM-survey needed to understand population movement patterns

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Prof AM,

Regardless of all the suggestion that are made here, unless we have data on movement of people, deciding on the BIG 5 routes may not be worthwhile. BMTC should commission a city wide comprehensive survey to understand the population movement patterns. Praja is also trying to come up with such a survey - it should be up in a few days.

Also another key point to be noted when moving from BIG 10 to BIG 5 would be to ensure that each route intersects every other route atleast once (the washington example that you suggested also does this - infact metros of most cities follow this pattern). This will minimize the number of buses a commuter has to change - a very important factor for people to switch to PT.

ash.mahesh's picture

pairing Big10 routes ...

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I have about 2000 O-D data points from various people taking daily trips in the city, I can try to do a matching exercise on these to see what shows up.

Seven more Big10 buses were added last week (3 on Magadi Road, 2 on Hosur Road and 2 on Whitefield route). I think a few more may be added this week or early next week. Will post an update.

Revenue data from Big10 system shows continuous improvement week-to-week. During April (the first month when we had buses on all 10 routes, revenue from Big10 services grew 11 per cent). I am optimistic that we will see a similar jump in May too, despite adding more buses (these buses are being added without removing any other existing services).

A

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