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E-City Rail Link vs HSRL

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Public Transport

Mr.Sreedharan made a few statements about

a, Metro being unviable to airport - needs 40000/hr traffic.

b. Private players who have come forward will get put off by talk of alternative plans

Here is a plan for the private players which will better serve Bangaloreans

Build a N (Normal) SRL from Indiranagar Police Station (branching off from NM) to Electronics City via IRR and Koramangala and then via NH7.  The distance would be less than 35 km for sure.  There are enough people who commute to E-City through the day.  There is BPO work that starts when other businesses are shutting down.  People arrive through the morning to work. I am sure at least 200,000-300,000 people work in that area.   This will be on the same PPP basis and tickets will be priced at a slight premium to ensure that profits can be made.

With this, Kormangala and HSR residents get access to NM going towards Majestic/Mysore Road/Malleswaram, etc..  Add a link from Byappanahalli to ITPL and a lot more traffic will be generated on NM.  All this will probably cost less than the HSRL. 

Any takers?

Srivathsa

Comments

Naveen's picture

HSRL has been proposed for Airport

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HSRLhas been proposed for fast, mass connectivity to airport. What you suggest are of course extensions to namma metro to include E-City & ITPL, which in any case, are planned in phase-2. PPP for Metro for urban travel needs will not find takers - if the ticket pricing is set high, daily commuters, who form the bulk of users, will not use it. Thus, profits are doubtful. This was why the UB group had pulled out of the erstwhile ELRTS project.

There are other obstacles - development of common ticket issues which is, by itself quite complicated + revenue sharing when commuters interchange between lines. Say, a commuter first uses this PPP train followed by NM - how much of what he pays goes to the PPP consortium & how much to Namma Metro ? These problems are why Monorail also may not take off since tickets have to be paid for individually, which can then become expensive for the daily commuter.

HSRL is different - ticket prices can be set high for air travellers as this is occasional travel & there are fewer daily commuters (airport workers, who can be subsidised from what air travellers pay). So, profits can be generated. Thus, private players will bite - according to recent reports, there are some 27 parties already interested in investing in this. So, PPP is possible & utilization of public funds can be minimised.

s_yajaman's picture

Target market - E City employees

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Naveen,

First - expensive vs. what?  A person from Koramangala or Indiranagar will spend 3-4 litres a day on petrol + 2-3 hrs on the commute.  If I am coming from Vijayanagar and can reach Indiranagar police station in 25 mins and then E-City in another 30-40 mins @ Rs.40 each way, is it really expensive.

Second - if HSRL can break even and make money at 15000-20000 trips/day @Rs.150/ticket, then E-City Rail can surely break even at 200,000 trips per day @ Rs.20-25/ticket.  Have a bus interchange at Silkboard and one can reach BTM, Jayanagar, etc.

I have not seen any Phase 2 plan that has E-City in it - is it available on BMRCL website?.  E-City, like it or not, is our own version of the CBD. 

Srivathsa

 

 

 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

srinidhi's picture

News on Metro to BIA and EC

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Srivatsa -
Found this piece on the web about the Electronic City connectivity..Looks like BMRCL is doing a pre-feasibility study for 3 months!

http://www.hindu.com/2009...

What is a pre-feasibility study? Sivasailam talks that BMRCL will need to decide on the route..but is already working with a map?! and 3 months??

silkboard's picture

You have identified a corridor

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Srivathsa, you have identified a viable corridor for a mass transport solution. CTTP too called it out, and they proposed in there was BRTS covering this corridor (I think we talked this last year) till Silk Board junction and Metro aligned on Hosur Road.

The solution depends on volumes on this corridor. Normal Rail, LRT, Metro, Mono or BRT - do I really care? Definitely not. Indira Nagar to Koramangala in 15 minutes, Silk board in 25 mins, E-city in 45 mins. Add a branch from emerging Sarjapur Road area, integrate with some mass transportation mode on Outer Ring Road. I will take it. Tell me the time and price to pay, and the quality of ride and interchange, thats all. Don't ask me for mode because I don't really care.

Having said that, the solution (which mode) would depend on two key inputs

  • volumes on this corridor
  • integration plan with existing modes of travel along (parallel) and across (perpendicular) this corridor.

If we can dig out some corridor volume data, we can have some real meaningful discussion. There are two possible sources for this data. RITES or CTTS itself (as they identified this as a corridor, and put Metro on Hosur Road). And BMRCL, as they phase 1 phase 2 phase 3 planning will definitely be based on corridor volume estimations.

Naveen - how do we get this data. Lets figure who to ask before considering RTI.

BTW, the current solution being worked is Big10 from Vellara Junction to E-city. Big 10 from Domlur to Velara junction, and then from there to E-city - this would take 1 hr+ in today's mixed traffic conditions. I have heard some talk of dedicated lanes at selective stretches as well, but not seen any concrete plans yet.

Naveen's picture

Metro along Hosur Rd Doubtful

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SB,

I don’t think there is any doubt about the need for a mass transit to EC. The CTTS study has a tabulation for traffic volumes at screen-line locations, extracts are as follows :
 

  • RUB near Benniganahalli /NH–4:  Vehicles–80,876;  PCUs–83,078   (9–10 AM, 6–7 PM)
  • RUB near Marathahalli /ORR:  Vehicles–71,678;  PCUs–83,183  (9–10AM,  5.15–6.15 PM)

Another tabulation from the study is for mid-block locations. Some extracts are as follows :

  • Hosur Road (NH-7) CSB Junction:  Vehicles – 62,514;  PCUs – 66,116 (9–10 AM, 6–7 PM)
  • Airport Road, Kemp Fort :  Vehicles – 30,146;   PCUs – 29,589  (9–10 AM,  6–7 PM)
  • Old Madras Road near NGEF :  Vehicles – 68,781;   PCUs – 70,039  (9–10 AM,  6–7 PM)

Thus, the numbers are there to justify a mass transit corridor.

Further, CTTS has also recommended a phase-2 Metro alignment along Hosur road from EC to Yelahanka. Thus, there is enough legitimacy for the route, no doubt.

However, the government, hell bent on building the toll-way along Hosur road, may have already compromised commuter interests by signing agreements (?), which might include clauses against a mass transit route since the builder /operator of the tollway may lose revenue heavily if the Metro is aligned through Hosur road.

Srivathsa,

Theoretically, your calculation does indeed make sense, but people, especially the car users have a funny way of criticizing the traffic & the authorities, but will never budge out from their cars – they expect others to get out of & take the bus or train, whilst remaining stubbornly seated within their cars. This has been borne out in so many world cities & also in Delhi, where after so much of study & work, the BRTS is in danger of being dismantled due to opposition by the car users & fuelled by the media. Thus, your estimation of 200,000 trips per day is on the high side as all car users will not switch over & many others cannot afford these prices for daily commutes. Thus, private funding may be difficult, unless other substantial incentives, such as rights for land development along the corridor & stations are offered - a la hyderabad !

Installing a mass transit is just the beginning. Reducing street congestion is quite another matter. Unless severe restraining tools are used (such as high costs for parking, tolls, taxes, etc), cars will continue to dominate the streets.

The best example of course is the Hosur road tollway. How did this come about ? If the industry & car users had demanded a Metro strongly enough, things would have been fine, but the choice has been an uninterrupted overhead road that neglects large social segments below.


Srinidhi,

I think what “pre-feasibility” study means is that they are just conducting a preliminary check to see if such an alignment for the Metro is possible. 3 months is a short time (!) as the whole route has to be surveyed, etc. We were told that DPR (Detailed Project Report) would take about 8 months to prepare. Construction will be according to the DPR.

s_yajaman's picture

Naveen - same assumptions hold for HSRL

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Naveen,

If people will not budge out of their cars for the train to E-City, why would they budge out of the cars to take the HSRL.  Getting to MG Road is the painful part.  It does not take me more than 45 mins from MG Road even today to the airport. 

IR has already tracks running towards that direction.  GoK can lease land from them on either side and ask them to build the tracks and rolling stock. 

Anyway time will tell.  If the economics really are that attractive, we should have people lining up.  If I were an investor, I would ask some very hard questions on traffic potential, price senstivity for tickets, etc.   5000 crores is a lot of money.  as the Hyderabad Metro has shown, very few things come free :)

Srivathsa

 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

Naveen's picture

Not Same assumptions for HSRL

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Srivathsa,

The assumptions are not the same for Surface rail or Metro & HSRL. As I mentioned, the type of use is quite different, as also the user base. Airport users pay Rs.800/- or more to go by taxi. The costs are not so much of a concern for this group since it is an occasional expense, probably being met by their employers, anyway. The commute of about 45 mins can be halved & also, costs can be reduced to about Rs.200/- with HSRL. This airport commuting group will also be willing to pay higher if fares are increased, as decided by the private consortium since they place a lot of value on their time.

Private parties will come forward to invest only where there are substantial incentives & guaranteed business. HSRL promises returns in the long-term, unlike a Metro /surface rail that will be slower or only as fast as road taxis & will thus, not attract this premium group. Slower rail can not compete with faster taxis in convenience, & the rail will run half-empty as user base will erode. It is for this reason that many private parties are chasing it. If the specs of the rail are changed to normal, these same investors will pull out, I'm sure & the state will have to fund & run the rail, probably always at a loss.

My only concern is that the planned HSRL is up to MG road - this should be changed & the train must lead up to some point in south bangalore, say Silkboard Jn or near RV rd terminal, for then, it becomes much more convenient for most.

I am not sure at all if it will be possible to run airport trains along existing tracks or with addition of tracks, as mentioned by you. Maybe, we should check this with SWR. If I remember correct, there were statements from them (in connection with running commuter rail) that their infrastructure is already heavily loaded with running inter-city trains. The route alignments are also not direct to airport from city center.

idontspam's picture

More numbers out today

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integration of HSRL with the Metro at the CAT (Rs. 50 crore), market cost of land (Rs. 532 crore), interest during construction (Rs. 673 crore), cost due to inflation (Rs. 782 crore) and additional cost of airport terminal (Rs. 387 crore)

the Government has said any amount in excess of Rs. 532 crore for land acquisition would have to be borne by the private player

Source

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