Skip to Content

I got challanned

up
137 users have liked.
Traffic

While I do appreciate the recent drive by the traffic authorities at enforcing rules, their letting off the regular violators like the autos, BMTC buses, call centre vehicles, etc, and for much bigger offences, makes them susceptible to charges of partiality, or other forces at play. Do they want to do something about that?

Last Thursday afternoon, around 1 PM, I was headed towards Indiranagar (from Koramangala) along the Intermediate Ring road. With the road almost totally empty at that time of the day, I must have been doing about 70 KMPH. Ahead of me, I noticed what looked like a police vehicle parked to the side. And, even as I approached the vehicle, two cops jumped across my path (rather riskily), and waved me to a stop. The charge was that I was speeding beyond the 60 KMPH limit.

The police vehicle was fitted with a speed gun, and could measure my speed as I approached it. The officer in charge was very polite and showed me the reading. The fine was Rs 300/-, and in a very professional manner, he went about punching in my vehicle registration number and driving license details on to his hand-held device, and within a few seconds, produced the receipt. And, matter over!

Not quite! This is the second time my vehicle registration number, and driving license details have gone into their records (The earlier instance was at the NIMHANS junction, for jumping the signal. I was right behind a BMTC bus, and couldn't see the lights, and followed the bus across the junction. Again, a cop jumped across my path and waved me to a stop, even as the bus was let off - apparently, they are a privileged class. The fine then was just Rs 100/-). The next time I get caught, I fear, my license may be confiscated.

And, I am not the only one in the family to get challanned. My wife has also got challanned twice over the past month, for 'improper parking', paying a fine of Rs 100/- each time.

And, mind you, we both can be classified as conscientious drivers. Whatever, as a result of it all, I have become extra careful now. So much so, yesterday morning around 7 AM, I waited patiently for the green light at the Maharaja junction, even as any number of vehicles were jumping the signal all around me, and a call centre vehicle trapped behind me kept honking.

Now, while I do appreciate this drive by the traffic authorities at enforcing rules, their letting off the regular violators like the autos, BMTC buses, call centre vehicles, etc, and for much bigger offences, makes them susceptible to charges of partiality, or other forces at play. Do they want to do something about that?

Check my earlier comments on the subject at: http://praja.in/bangalore/blog/admin/2008/09/09/next-meeting-with-mr-sood-sep-20-2-pm#comment-8067

Muralidhar Rao

Comments

Nitinjhanwar's picture

Policing

up
102 users have liked.
Sorry for writing in the banglarore page but i thought i will share this with you. i got challened a for jumping the red light. One guy was ahead of me and i think i crossed in the intermediate time. any ways i was on my motorcycle and i keep both the four wheeler and two wheeler licences in my pocket. By mistake i gave the four wheeler licence to the gentleman in uniform. HE GAVE ME THE RECIEPT!!! Just for my records i got the reciept xeroxed and than reliased the folly of it all. I had to scan the reciept and email it to the SP Trafic giving my two wheeler licence no. Moral : A person who at one meter cannot differentiate in the type of licence is fit to see who is jumping signals? nJ

-nJ-

919462900144

www.nitinjhanwar.biz

Photoyogi's picture

Caught talking on the cell

up
114 users have liked.

Dear Murali sir, my apologies on the fine.
I normally have my hands free when i am driving and this was just my unlucky day I guess. I was speaking on the phone while i passed a traffic constable and his superior officer who was writing the challan for another offender.
I knew it was my mistake and pulled over and rolled down the window. I told the cop "Hey i am very sorry and I know it was my mistake and its the first time blah blah"
He asked me to get my license out and talk to the higher officer. I was aware of this license number business and repeated offenders would have their license canceled!
When i went up to the officer i was able to convince him that its my first offence and he should not make an entry of my license number. I did tell him i am fully aware of the process and i support him doing his job but must let me without the fine.

The officer was smiling, It was my lucky day! there i was walking back to my car without the ticket. I was just so lucky i always thought only pretty girls get away.
I don't say this will work all the time I strongly advise not talking on the phone while driving. If you must, please use a hands free ..
if what you are talking is serious or a long call, and will affect judgment, please pullover and complete the conversation.
Drive save!
--
Praveen Sundaram
AkA PhotoYogi

-- PhotoYogi

Naveen's picture

Traffic Police on Fire !

up
82 users have liked.

Hi All,

Good to see traffic cops making an earnest attempt to impose some traffic rules now. All along, they were the sleepy kind, almost with "Do Not Disturb" signs hung around their necks.

Driving through red signals & trying to push through traffic in the ensuing jam cost a driver dear today at BEML gate. The 'invisible' cop suddenly appeared out of nowhere, with his pen & receipt log in hand & stopped all traffic whilst he collected the fine. Even whilst this was going on, other stopped vehicles were seen trying to slither past !

What a shame. The only medicine for this is to somehow reduce the no. of vehicles & impose very strict discipline, else things will only get worse.

I think violations by public BMTC buses are quite common. However, we must also remember that though they are not above the law, they are to be accorded some priority since they serve the public. Also, our private vehicle on the road adds to the chaos, delaying those that are using public transport.

idontspam's picture

I have a wide grin on my face...

up
115 users have liked.
Sorry really... I am not sadistic on anything... We (praja) have coming down hard on the police lack of enforcement. I am happy the police are doing their job. Lot of people will be unhappy but the city as a whole will benefit. I do remember Mr Sood mentioning in the last Praja meeting we had that he will crack down on private vehicles. Taxis and Others will follow soon. Step by step the whole city will now fall in line. Good luck Mr Sood. Dont stop with private vehicles... the worst offenders (taxis, buses, sutos, commercial vehicles) are going to be the ones who bring order to the city.
psaram42's picture

Over worked Police?

up
97 users have liked.
Murali sir while appreciating your predicament, I do not support your view on the subject. We should follow rules which are made for our and other road user’s safety. Police force which appears to be overworked is also made of people like us. We are now having a new Police chief in Mr. Bidary who is a very dynamic police officer. We may expect some change for the better in Bangalore, during his tenure.

There was an old Tata Sumo vehicle with Gujarat Registration parked in front of my house for more than 2 months, for which I lodged a complaint with JB Nagar Police here. They were reluctant to confiscate the vehicle, even after my bringing to their notice the vehicle registration not being changed for a long period of 2 years. However they contacted the owner and got the vehicle removed, by the owner himself.

I have a feeling the Police tend to take the path of least resistance.
nijavaada's picture

follow-up required

up
113 users have liked.

I feel what I am going to comment upon is going to be relevant to this challaning business.

Recently I found a challan stuck on my windshield somewhere in Vasant Nagara. This had happened while I had gone into some nearby office to finish an errand, and in the meanwhile my car was parked below a tree with rather strangely spread branches, casting shadows on the road.

While these trees had brought the much required cool shade for my car, they'd also blocked the sight of a "No Parking" sign that had been put up on the adjacent foot-path. Now my sincere claim was that the signboard was totally invisible from the direction that I came in on that road, and as a driver, I am not going to be on the look out for such boards. I just find a convenient place to park, and then park my car there. More so, if you found some other cars lined up in the vicinity.

When I approached the Police with this reasoning, as expected, they didnt understand this logic of a signboard being invisible behind a tree! My plea here is that while the traffic department puts in efforts to find vehicles parked in these no parking spots, they should also patrol such "invisible" signboards and ensure they actually serve their original purpose - one of conveying information, and not instead of trapping people!! Placement and angling of signboards may not be rocket science, but science it is nevertheless - something that our police dept. needs to realise the importance of.

Fine: Rs. 100/- + an Hour spent finding the police station where I'd to pay this!!!

-Nijavaada

-Nijavaada
narayan82's picture

Better Markings.

up
84 users have liked.

W.r.t Praking and Nijavaada's episode, I totally, feel that we should have better more innovative signage systems.

For Parking, let us do away with No Parking boards, and instead paint lines along roads, as done in UK and other places. This way, its clear, and there is no confusion/hunting for a sign. Recently, I think a grant of around 40 Crore (not sure abt the figure) was released for sign boards.

I have seen a lot of new signs been put up. But many are either and a dilapidated angle, unclear or a mere replacement of a old sign, in the same invisibe position.

I also belive the signs themselves, must be re-designed. They are presently sometimes confusing and take longer than expected to decipher.

For Example, the one way sign below. It takes longer to decide which way the one way is - as opposed to my solution where it is clear. In the existing solution, it takes longer to find out which arrow is above the red line and which is below!

One Way Signs

In this other example, the text "No Free Left Turn" is so small and invisible that one can easily mistake it for a "No Left Turn." Again, a simple re-design can make it  a lot easier.

No Free Left Turn Sign

Narayan Gopalan
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
idontspam's picture

Grinning even more...

up
82 users have liked.
You guys are rightly pointing out the in accuracies in road signage and marking (where they exist). The more disputes that arise, the police will realize the importance of informing not only correctly and but appropriately as well. I think the new BTRAC signboards was a good preparation before they started the crackdown. I am waiting for the day when obstructing free flow, lane violation and blocking junction tickets will be issued. The markings will improve before they start issuing you challans for that.
Naveen's picture

An Inconvenient Truth !

up
94 users have liked.

Let's face it - Cops cannot be everywhere, every time. The vehicle population is exploding & parking is hard to find. Public transport, in it's present form is detested by those that can afford vehicles, with some justice as the quality is low, & inconvenient.

Signages are essential, but our polity has shown contempt for these & they do not really care, including parking at bus stops & in well marked 'No Parking' streets.

Whilst the present drive against road violations is commendable, can it be sustained ? If so, for how much longer ?

So, what do we do ?

The answer is not too difficult, provided the authorities do not flinch, however unpopular the move may be & no matter how many objections they receive.

Rope in the private parties - divide the city's areas into various types depending on their importance, & call for tenders for parking in all streets & public parking areas that can accommodate parking (every single street, barring purely residential areas). Fix a charging scale with accurate marking of all areas & streets. The more commercially important the area is, the higher the parking fee should be - this is how it is done in the rest of the world.

If people want to go about in private vehicles, they should also be ready to shell out for parking fees just about every nook & corner. The private contractors will do more than half the job of the traffic police, for sure !

The hard truth is, whilst we crib about unruly road behavior by others, we end up doing the same as some of the examples above suggest & expect "authorities" to "tackle" the situation. The authorities cannot be omni-present, they need help, they need co-operation. Expecting them to enforce laws with a selfish, poorly mannered populace such as ours is expecting too much.

silkboard's picture

Sounds bad, but can't complain

up
116 users have liked.

As long as your experience was pleasant (as in quick, just and without him explicitly asking for a bribe), its not fair to complain. They are definitely on a drive against private cars (Mr Sood had said this'd happen). Murali, I saw 3-4 cars being ticketed on IRR behind a speed patrol car on Friday evening as well just after we met. Thanks for alerting me, I was doing 50 kmph, not the usual 60-70 that we all do on IRR.

But if stay on this drive forever (say more than a month), and not extend this to BMTC buses and autos and (the worst of them) the call center cabs, we would then have to raise a complaint. Incidentally, I don't recall the "stand and deliver" gang of policemen ever stop a yellow plate car or SUV. I asked a cop once on what his reason his. He said that them being commercial vehicles, they usually have their papers in order, so why waste time with them.

As Naveen says above, we are all bad drivers, almost each one of us.. I too am, 80% of the time by the rules, 20% of the time unruly. If get caught during the unruly speel, my bad luck.

But, Murali, it will be worthwhile to ask for information (email to Mr Sood, if no answer, then RTI), for stats on types of vehicles they fine per month - how many autos vs private cars, vs two wheelers, vs buses). Analyzing that data over last 5-6 months would give us some facts to write and point out some real criticism.

(I am not sure they capture the type of vehicle to this detail, perhaps only broadly as two, three, four or more wheelers - no of axles)

murali772's picture

Not bad; and, I'm not complaining

up
125 users have liked.

I'm not complaining about their catching me. But, I'm complaining about their laises-fares attitude towards blatant and far more serious violations by autos, BMTC buses, and yellow-board (call-centre) vehicles, which you see all around you, day in and day out. The papers being in order is not at all good enough.

Driving at 70 Km on an empty road is at worst a technical violation. Yes, it's a violation, and I can't be cribbing about when they catch me. But, such drives, apart from adding to the kitty, do not contribute much to the management of traffic in the city. As such, it appears to be more a revenue oriented effort than a traffic management effort.

Naveen - I don't buy this argument that BMTC buses being public transport vehicles, they should be allowed the privilege of violating traffic rules. Enforcement of traffic discipline has to be uniform for all kinds and classes of vehicles. The BMTC can be accorded many other privileges; but, when it comes to traffic discipline, if you are going to be lax with them, then you are essentially emasculating the powers of the police to bring about order, assuming that's the ultimate purpose.

The police is apparently letting this lot get away because of their union clout. Like SB has stated, if the police does not start targeting them also in the near future, we will perhaps have to form our own union to demand that.

And, I agree totally with your suggestion of outsourcing much of the traffic policing work to private contractors, under strict supervision of the officers. In fact, if I am not too wrong, the Soli Sorabjee committee (on police reforms) has indeed recommended outsourcing in a large way in areas other crime investigation.

Also, as you have very rightly pointed out, the ultimate answer is everybody switching to the use of public bus transport services. And, that's again where I come in with my view that it can happen only with good old T V Sundaram Iyengar & Sons (and now, grandsons) being facilitated to re-enter the business. Check http://www.praja.in/blog/murali772/2007/12/12/better-bussing-green-bangalore

IDS - You may grin wide now for all you are worth sitting in Stockholm, or wherever you are. Let's see how you escape Mr Sood's men when you land back in namma Bengaluru :))).

Psaram, Sir - I don't think you got me right. I fully support this drive on the part of the traffic police. Only, they need to be uniform in applying rules.

Muralidhar Rao

Muralidhar Rao
Naveen's picture

Priority for Public Transport

up
103 users have liked.

Mr.Murali,

I mentioned that public transport buses must be accorded priority; they are of course not exempt from following rules or cannot get away with violations.

Buses have for long been reduced to 3rd grade road users, & are fighting a losing battle with cars & 2-wheelers. The flight of users from buses to 2-wheelers & cars continues unabated, which continues to worsen the position for them on the street. This can only be overcome by according them some priority, such as bus exclusive lanes where possible or free passage through signals, but this is easier said than done since the lanes usually remain clogged with traffic.

s_yajaman's picture

Bellary Road much improved + law makers are law breakers

up
100 users have liked.

Murali sir,

You should feel happy that they are finally acting. 

I came back from a trip last night that took me to Delhi, Chandigarh, Himachal, Jalandhar and Amritsar.  Flight was delayed from Delhi due to smog and traffic congestion.  On the way back (at 10:30 p.m) saw that almost every car stopped at the red lights on NH-7.  Also saw red light cameras being installed at the Chikkajala signal.The only offenders were a government car (an Innova bearing the registration number KA 02/03 - GA 189 (or 169) and two accompanying Gypsys - Ka02G478 and Ka02G2369.  They jumped lights quite casually.  So our law makers and guardians don't think twice about breaking laws!  However they drove well within the speed limit!!!!  The other big offenders on this stretch are the BMTC Vayu Vajras. 

My wife was recently pulled up by a constable when she drove through a red as she could not stop in the middle of the road  (the orange is not long enough to cross the road sometimes).  The conversation went something like this (original in Kannada)

Wife - "Sorry about that sir, I could not stop in time"

Constable - "I will have to fine you Rs. 500 for jumping the light and rash driving"

W - "Okay sir - I will pay"

C- "I can let you off for Rs.300 - but no receipt"

W - "Sir, I don't do such things"

C - "Then I have no choice"

W - "Okay - please give me a receipt"

C - "I would like to give you Rs.200 challan - but there is no offence with that rate"

W - "No problem.  I will pay the Rs.500 fine - but I need a receipt"

C - (fed up) - "Okay please go this time, I will let you off with a warning".

W - "Thank you".

Srivathsa

 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

Vinay's picture

The above example is what we ALL should follow

up
108 users have liked.
Most of us here (praja members) can afford the fines laid down by the Government. It does not make much difference to us whether we pay Rs. 100 or Rs. 300. It irritates me no end when I hear my colleagues crib about 'corruption' and the very next day, announce how they got away with a bribe of Rs. 100 for some traffic offence. I have resolved never to bribe my way out of a traffic offence. I might argue with the policeman, request him to let me off, etc., failing which I will pay the fine and get myself a receipt. It is encouraging to know others who think the same way.

silkboard's picture

Well said Vinay

up
108 users have liked.

Most of us (mid.upper middle class) have these double standards. Can list plenty of examples besides this one.

It so happened that I got stopped twice yesterday and once today (CV Raman Nagar, Madivala police station, Agara junction on ORR) while driving my car. May be someone read my 70 kmph admission in a comment above. But each time I was polite, explained my case (my offence - missing emission certificate, which I really thought I don't need as my car is BS III compliant non-polluting vehicle). All three times, I was let off with a warning, minimal harassment.

At times, we overplay this 'cops harass, they always ask for bribe' thing.

Personally, I feel good and safe seeing so many active cops on the roads. But yes, they got to move beyond "stand and stop vehicles mode", and must start going after reckless yellow plate club members as well. Its time.

Naveen's picture

Another approach to end violations

up
118 users have liked.

We know that most offenders are not smitten by the rs.100 or rs.200 or at most, rs.300 fines since income levels are far higher now & the fines are, shall we say much more "affordable".

Why should'nt we have fines like rs.500, rs.1000 & rs.2000 ? This will keep much better control on the no. of violations as people would have some fear, & try harder not to violate. It will also encourage cops to look for more offenders since their chances of "extraction" become better.

Of course, there will be a strong temptation to bribe & get away, too, but overall, it may be more effective in instilling better discipline amongst drivers.

murali772's picture

question before Mr Sood

up
104 users have liked.

I think the current levels of fines are good enough deterrents. If at all fine levels are to be raised, they should be raised for offences like drunken driving, and not for technical offences like 'invalid emmission certificate', etc.

And, this 'emission certificate' thing is a total hoax, as everyone knows. I don't understand why an otherwise pro-active AdCP, like Mr Sood, cannot bother to dismantle this harassment mechanism, even as autos, and quite a few government vehicles, including those belonging to police, keep belching out clouds of smoke all over the city.

And, as I have stated before, the big question before Mr Sood is when is he going to be bringing the 'road aristocracy' - autos, BMTC buses, and government vehicles to book? Sreevatsa has displayed in public the registration number of the government vehicles that jumped the signals on the (new) airport road. I would now expect Mr Sood to come on to PRAJA and inform the public of the action proposed against the offenders.

Yes, our expectations are higher now. Can we hope for reciprocal responses from the authorities?

Muralidhar Rao

Muralidhar Rao
narayan82's picture

What Can I Do?

up
96 users have liked.

Everyday I see millions of riders/driver break the law. ' I would like Mr.Sood to develop a process where citizens can do a certain amount of policing. Awareness campaigns and spreading the word has proved completelt useless. It isn't that people are unware of the law, they just know the can get away with it.

Right now, I can either, pick up a fight (and considering my size get beaten quite easily) or I can ignore! The question of reasoning out with the offender is not going to work. I cannot sit and explain to him the problem with civic sense. Even if I had the time, not one road user would listen!

This goes back to our earlier idea of involing photography. So I can take a photograph of the offender, and then somehow send it to the police who can then asses and fine him as required. Howvere, we realised that photography can be digital modified leading to corruption. I am sure, with some more use of technology we can combat it.

Lets face it - The police is understaffed and cannot handle it. Today, I was at command Hospital junction - and there was a bus stuck a few meters away from the junction. The policeman manning the junction, couldn't leave the junction for 3 mins, to investigate the problem. If he did, riders were waiting to jump the signal!

Narayan Gopalan
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
Vinay's picture

Till the police begin cracking down on cab drivers and autos..

up
106 users have liked.
I try to do my bit. I am not sure how many Praja members will agree with me here, or how many will be willing to try this out - anyway, here goes: When there is a traffic signal, or a railway crossing, we all know how autos and cab drivers (mainly these two) go on the wrong side. As soon as traffic begins moving, they try to cut in just ahead of you and rejoin the correct lane. Somehow this infuriates me. I make sure that the auto is not able to get in front of me. I keep varying my speed such that the auto just cannot get in front of me. In a few moments, an oncoming bus is forced to stop. Thats when I pull down my window and scream, abuse and rant at the auto driver. The auto driver is incapable of responding at this point, since he is at a severe disadvantage. Generally the oncoming driver joins in the abuse, so do the people behind me. Two-wheelers and autos very often try to squeeze past a signal even when it is red. I make it a point to give them a severe shock by pretending not to have noticed them, putting my vehicle into second gear (to generate more noise) and speeding ahead. I pretend to notice them at the last moment and come to a screeching halt. All this is play-acting on my part of course, but the other guy has no way of knowing that. He believes that he has escaped death by a few inches. I only hope that next time he will think hundred times before breaking a signal. I try these things only because I know that 'educating' auto and cab drivers on civic sense is a hopeless activity, they will not learn. I hope that at least a few of them think several times before they commit a traffic offence.

s_yajaman's picture

Don't lose your cool

up
99 users have liked.

Vinay,

My sincere advice to you is not to get into any altercation with anyone on the road.  You might end up paying for it with your life.  I know is it is very annoying to see people jump red lights (essentially telling you that you are an idiot for waiting in line and obeying rules) , but such people don't see reason very well.  If they are suicidal let them be.  People are on a short fuse and don't take to any sermon kindly. 

Srivathsa

 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

murali772's picture

traffic marshalls

up
86 users have liked.

Narayan

The answer perhaps lies in the "traffic marshalls" programme that I had once earlier detailed at http://praja.in/en/discuss/forums/2008/07/traffic-chaos-and-reforms-analysis-and-way-forward#comment-6449.

It is totally different from the current 'traffic warden' programme, which, in my opinion, serves a very limited purpose, if any at all.

I had intended to bring it up in the meet with Mr Sood. But, since I could not make it to the last meeting, it could not be pursued. May be next time.

Muralidhar Rao

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

caution please!

up
114 users have liked.

And Vinay

Those tactics can be dangerous. I once got terribly irritated by the continuous honkings of a car behind me. I turned round to give the driver a dirty look, and promptly went and crashed into an auto in front of me, which went and crashed into the side of a Qualis ahead of it. I landed up settling with both for close to Rs 15K, apart from some 4 hrs of peak working time wasted.

Muralidhar Rao

Muralidhar Rao
narayan82's picture

road rage...

up
87 users have liked.
I belive in using Defenseless Driving tactics. If some guy is honking relentlessly I let him pass. Whats annoying is someone behind honking at you at a red signal. And when you turn around, they stop honking and look away with innocent faces. Now thats why you know they are aware what they are doing is wrong! The problem with swerves and manouvers is that if you hit him, how ever wrong he is, your still in the worng. and two wrongs wont make a right! They just lead to double the fine!
Narayan Gopalan
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
narayan82's picture

Traffic Marshals

up
120 users have liked.

Muralisir, What you have been campaigning for is what I have been suggesting too on the sidelines.

The only bit where I deferred was that I said, that these wardens must be equipped with Digital Cameras. This way they can document any offence, like illegal parking and encroachments. Then there will be incriminating evidence. This is actually a working model in the United Kingdom.

But, when I met Mr Sood, at TOI's Unlock Bangalore he was on a different note. He felt, that a viral network of logistical explanations about road discipline starting with friends would solve the problem. that was a scary suggestions. Firstly I am not a good speaker/preacher and secondly my freinds dont want to hear me preach!

The biggest reason, I re-iterate is that People break the law not because they are unaware of it, but because they know they can get away with it.

[ why do all my lines breaks go for a six when i type in the standard editor?.It becomes one BIG para!]

Narayan Gopalan
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
Vinay's picture

Regarding road rage

up
103 users have liked.
Road rage might not be very effective, and it might end up being dangerous too, agreed. But one does feel several 'surges' of anger on the road for various reasons. Murali's idea of traffic Marshals is a wonderful one, and count me in as one of the first volunteers in case this idea is implemented/taken forward.

murali772's picture

submit a petition?

up
97 users have liked.

If there's a consensus on the idea of the 'traffic marshalls' programme, can we submit a petition to Mr Sood requesting for implementation?

Muralidhar Rao

Muralidhar Rao
narayan82's picture

I Support it!

up
77 users have liked.
Muralisir I am game for the Traffic Marshal's programme. In fact, we have a demo to Mr Sood, by volunteering ourselves and buddying with Constables to catch offenders. If you feel we need more volunteers, then I can advertise this idea at the World Usability Event, and get volunteers. Maybe we can start with the sony world junction (Koramangala)?
Narayan Gopalan
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore
nijavaada's picture

ways to go..

up
104 users have liked.

Quite sincerely I see a good set of opinions being built in this particular thread recently..

Was just thinking of the emission certificate (EC) thing - something that I have earlier been held for sometime ago - and lo! there were some comments on that as well. But none was talking about a solution to this.

I think an emission check could be done by a mobile, and perhaps a hand-held unit. And the cops on this "catching" duty could as well carry this along. May be along with them on those speed-camera vehicles. Why out-source the emission certifying activity to people who can easily convert this checking into a business and certify bad vehicles at an addnl "fee"!! We need to suggest Mr. Sood that his dept. should (search for sellers, and) buy these mobile/hand-held emission checkers, and save people from the harassment. And he also needs to ensure that his laws are in compliance with latest technological trends and all.. I wonder if his cops will expect an EC from a Reva too just because the rule doesnt have predications about the vehicle type!!!

It really hurts to see a smoking taxi whizz past me when I am standing in front of this cop paying up for a missing emission certificate!!! Stop-Check-Validate-Fine should be the way to go..

-Nijavaada

-Nijavaada
krishnan's picture

murali and his challan

up
100 users have liked.
Similar thing happened to me a few weeks ago. I asked the inspector for a challan and then told him that i would sue them for harrasment. If u are going to enforce speed limits, for gods sake tell us first what the speed limit is ! in every civilized country speed limits are put up . Here we have a joker stopping us and informing us that we are speeding. to continue my story, the cop asked me if i had not been told about speed limits when i got my license. i politely informed him that the ring road did not exist when i got my license. He very reluctantly let me go. Murali u must send them a lawyers notice stating harrasment.
idontspam's picture

Classic example

up
112 users have liked.
Krishnans case is the classic example of what can happen if you try enforcement with inappropriate markings and signboards. I mentioned this when police started enforcement on NH leading to BIA. Then they put up signboards with speed limits giving them basis for enforcement. The ground reality which has been accepted by Mr Sood also is that the police are not up to date with the best practices. They dont get the right input when they join the police force. Somebody on Praja proposed that we set up training for police force. That is the first thing we should do.
murali772's picture

just escaped!

up
98 users have liked.

Guess what? Yesterday, driving past the Corporation Circle, on to Kasturba Road (heading towards UB/ KF junction), I was waved to a stop by the speed interceptor team, midway down the road for exceeding the speed limit. I was told I had touched 64 kmph, whereas the speed limit, across the city, is supposedly 40 kmph. They tolerate upto 60 kmph, and if you exceed that, they will take action. However, since I had exceeded only by 4 kmph beyond the tolerance limit, they let me off after cautioning.

Many questions arise from this:

1) Many other vehicles were stopped; but, none from the aristocracy - yellow board one, auto, or a govt vehicle; giving deeper credence to the rumour that there's a monthly pay-off.

2) Should police resources be wasted this way when there are far more important things to do? After all, on how many stretches can you speed in the city? The real problem if at all are the 'drag races' indulged in by the likes Nikhil Gowda during after hours. That's where the concentration should be!

3) Enforcement can be effective only when they go after offenders, enough of whom we see day in and day out, and for which, the police have supposedly been given their vehicles. Instead, they just continue standing and enforcing, using all kinds of gadgetry, the emphasis being more on revenue generation than on traffic control.

All in all, quite disappointing, even with having supposedly the right kind of people at the top. Check:

http://bangalore.praja.in/blog/silkboard/2008/11/22/entropy-example-kilometer-long-jam-no-real-reason#comment-9698



After the Mumbai terror attack, the public anger with government agencies is not just confined to security issues, but to each of the components that form the whole system. When will the officials involved wake up to this?

Muralidhar Rao

Muralidhar Rao
psaram42's picture

deleted

up
112 users have liked.
deleted
murali772's picture

aristocracy still getting away

up
90 users have liked.

Saturday morning, at around 7.15, I had to wait for close to 2 minutes at the Sony World junction (Koramangala) for the light to turn green (On a week day, it takes much longer - sometimes even upto 3 light change cycles).

I am listing below the approximate number of different types of vehicles that came by, and, alongside in brackets, the %age that jumped the lights: BMTC buses - 6 (100%); auto's - 10 (100%); 2-wheelers - 15 (50%); yellow board vehicles - 5 (90%); private cars - 10 (10%).

Well, apparently, the drive by the traffic police is beginning to have its impact on private car drivers and 2-wheelers. But, simultaneously, it reinforces the point I have been making about the road aristocracy.

When I met Mr Sood recently, he averred that that was a mis-perception, and his fine records indicate that there's no bias. Any one knows where to access the records, or does that have to be another RTI exercise?

Muralidhar Rao

Muralidhar Rao
mbnataraj's picture

are Bangalore traffic challans foolproof?

up
105 users have liked.

Hello Murali, Here is my experience with Bangalore Automation Centre. I am still waiting for the response. I wonder how legal is their move to suspend licences when they are just fining an owner?

In the interest of justice and fair play, only fatal accidents or DUI where the driver is caught and convicted should be taken into consideration is it not?

What is the point of convicting the owner of the vehicle for a parking or even a traffic violation? Afterall the vehicle is an inanimate object in the hands of the driver who is not caught.
There does not appear to be any legal ground for penalizing the owner for drivers mistakes.
This penalize anyone available appears to be the government's mantra for its inabilities, be it traffic , building, fire, or civil accidents. 

Here is a letter I wrote them.

13 Aug 2009,
To
The Commissioner of Police,
Bangalore.
Copy DCP traffic east.
 
Sir,
I am the Secretary Training  for Traffic Engineers and Safety Trainers.
I have regularly filed over 2000 violations with the same DCP traffic so that enforcement becomes more strict.(a sample also attached)
 As such am very familiar with the traffic laws and the need for strict enforcement. and I have trained my son and daughter in strict law abidement.
I have also been a great admirer of the great work done by the enforcement cell.
Just today I received (notices-2522386 and 2522387 dated 4 aug 2009 attached) for violation of cell phone and helmetless driving of my Son's two wheeler KA02EM1308 mentioned as motorcycle even though it is a honda  scooter, at Marappanapalya Junction on 31 Jul 2009 at 11.50 AM.
The reasons I am raising a question about the notices are
1) If my memory is correct, exactly one year ago on the same date 31 jul, 2008, exactly at the same spot- Marappanapalya junction- which spot exactly are they referring to I  am not sure as there are atleast two in Bangalores 600 square km, BEL road or
Near Navrang- we got a notice for helmetless riding. Though my son protested he had never driven anywhere without the helmet-he was on a visit from USA at that time- I over rode his protests mainly for lack or resources and time to fight these cases- and paid up the fine.
2) Now exactly one year later , we get another two notices. But this time my son is not even here. I have never seen her ride without a helmet. My daughter who uses the vehicle is even more law abiding than any of us- was at home at  around that time, we have videos of the pooja and her participation in it,  for Varamahalakshmi pooja from 9 AM onwards, in which she participated,  we had a small house warming for a small room we reconstructed that day,. Lunch followed around 12 to  1.30 pm and she was here.
I would like to see- if there is any video evidence of the violation- and the exact location details.  are there more than one KA-02-EM 1308? Since it refers the vehcile as a motorcycle? The coincidences seem too much.
While I would like to reiterate my committment to a  honkless traffic,  disciplined and enforced bangalore, I would also like to be sure  to make enforcement tamper and harassment proof.
 
Thanking you
Sincerely yours
 

murali772's picture

complaint of a different kind

up
104 users have liked.

Posted on 'savekoramangala' y-group by VM:

Last week I got a ticket for wrong parking. The ticket was one my windshield when I came out of Koshy's. I went home, went online to Bangalore one and paid my fine by credit card and got an immediate receipt and acknowledgment. The only thing I have kind of against this was that the fine was just Rs 100. Does not really become a deterrent?

But, no arguing with cops, bribes or waiting in long queues. I did it online; but, I am sure that the Bangalore One kiosks would handle the same in non-cyber world too.
 

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

not disappointed

up
79 users have liked.

Over the past month, my wife has managed to get two notices for payment of fines of Rs 100/- each, one apparently for stopping across the zebra cross at a traffic junction, and the other for talking on phone while driving - no contest at all. So, on her behalf, and based on my good friend, VM's experience, I tried to make the payment through the net. After some three unsuccessful attempts, over three different days, I finally tried calling the 'helpline' on 25588444/ 555 today at around 4.45PM - no response. I suppose I'll have to now find a Bangalore One to make the payment.

I am not totally disappointed, since this is what one has come to expect from government departments. Technology can only provide the tools; it cannot change people's outlook.

 

Muralidhar Rao
psaram42's picture

You can pay fine at any traffic police station

up
86 users have liked.

 Long back I was caught driving without fastening my seat belt. The officer who issued the Chelan was really apologetic as a awareness drive was on. I was really touched and agreed with the officer and thanked him for the Chelan. I had no problem to pay the fine at Jeevan bima nagar traffic police station. I got instantaneous computer printed receipt from the clerk at the JB Nagar police station. 

I for one not go to Bangalore one or two.

murali772's picture

gimmickry

up
80 users have liked.

@Psaram

Adu gottu, Sir! The question is why isn't the on-line facilty working, and for over a week? The point I am making is that the government and its agencies are largely interested only in gimmickry, and not in solving problems.

And, why did you make the cop apologetic about challaning you for not fastening your seat-belt? He was only doing his duty.

That his service will be far more useful to city if he is asked to concentrate on the more pressing issues is of course another matter, altogether.

Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

experts' meet

up
117 users have liked.

In early April, I was invited by DNA to join a discussion on the city traffic issues. Present in the group amongst others were Mr Sood, Prof Sreehari, and Dr Ashwin Mahesh. The usual suggestion of better public transport came up, whereupon I put forth my standard line on BMTC monopoly being the single biggest problem, to which the experts came up with their standard response of that being in the politicians' domain. And, with no politician having been invited, the buck got merrily passed on.

Later, I raised the subject of 'Traffic Marshals' with Mr Sood. He responded saying that he had seen my post on PRAJA in the matter, but that all that I had listed there can as well be carried out through the existing 'Traffic Warden' programme, with or without wearing a uniform. But, subsequently, when I checked with the Dy Cheif Traffic Warden, Mr M T Naik (former DCP Traffic), he was categoric that wearing of uniform was a necessary pre-requisite to functioning as a Traffic Warden. I informed Mr Sood accordingly, over a mail, adding that the scope of the work envisaged under the Marshals programme went far beyond that of the uniform-wearing Warden, and left it at that.
 

 

Muralidhar Rao
psaram42's picture

IMHO

up
99 users have liked.

 

Murali Sir,

I am unable to figure out the connection between “I got challanned” blog entry and this experts meet comment. This expert’s meet must be an important one and disserves to be covered under a separate blog entry.

A detailed report would be great from Praja point of view. Was this meeting covered by any reporters? I wonder. If so a link to that also would have been welcome.

The project Idea is also excellent. Thanks to Praja team to have implemented it. If you thought that “I got challaned” can hold all this is as a project it is a different issue.

Praja.in comment guidelines

Posting Guidelines apply for comments as well. No foul language, hate mongering or personal attacks. If criticizing third person or an authority, you must be fact based, as constructive as possible, and use gentle words. Avoid going off-topic no matter how nice your comment is. Moderators reserve the right to either edit or simply delete comments that don't meet these guidelines. If you are nice enough to realize you violated the guidelines, please save Moderators some time by editing and fixing yourself. Thanks!



about seo | blog