Skip to Content

ABIDe: Transportation plan

up
127 users have liked.
Urban DevelopmentPublic Transport

ABIDeIts out now... ABIDe plans on their site bengaluruvedike.org. Let me know what you all think. I found Bus prioritized higher than other options. Including suggestions of doubling the bus numbers without any mention of route optimization or rail based transportation systems.

On a side note: Interesting point on page 26 of the traffic and transportation plan

"BMLTA should employ traffic and urban planners  transport engineers  designers  software and hardware professionals and other domain experts. The agency should also have expertise in project negotiations  RFP-writing  contract creation  and project monitoring."

If it pays enough to support EMI and food on the table I am willing quit my current job and sign up. This can be a good example of infrastructure creating jobs at multiple levels, not just blue collar ones and bringing in ideas.

We spend time lying to investors and hoarding up gazillion crores so our progeny can live in the same dumpyard we did? I feel its time to make the place livable so nobody ends up slumdog millionnaires.

Any takers? (for both the plans and the job?)

Comments

silkboard's picture

Reading them, went through transportation one

up
112 users have liked.

So the "blue prints" are out. I for one see the value of successful businessmen adding value via ABIDe on the "execution" side. After all, there is little dearth for plans and idas to solve the city's woes. And if a quality plan is to be prepared yet again, why get it done by volunteers (even if its quality minds like Ashwin Mahesh and RK Misra)? If the city really needs the skills, it needs to pay for them. Activists and enthusiasts are to act as watchdogs, not drivers.

Regardless, the transportation report looks good. All routine stuff that we discuss and breathe here on Praja is in, impressive indeed. Here are things I find worth calling out:

Positives

  • Bus priority lanes. Finally.
  • Hop on Hop off circular bus services in CBD. Similar to Naveen's idea of single lane looping BRTS like systems.
  • Ditches the Core Ring Road idea. Justification given is it will kill aesthetics of CBD.
  • Talk of making 10 radial corridors signal free till ORR. Expect lot of magic boxes I guess, Bellary Road work done for BIAL has provided encouragement here. Perhaps the North-South and East West elevated corridor ideas is dead by now.
  • Talk of centralized databses of vehicle registration and driving licenses.
  • Traffic impact assesment of new developments, good show. This needs to get in BDA's Masterplan more directly.
  • Talk of strengthening BMLTA. :) :)
  • The idea of giving high FSI in exchange of getting Bus-bays on private land. Good beginning on the lines of "plaza bonus".
  • Talk of data lead planning (slide 5)
  • Idea of retaining corner plots in new layouts so that city has more options to work on road mouths at signals in the future (slide 17)

Negatives

  • Making 10 corridors junction free needs a corresponding plan to reduce access/merge points so that short haul traffic doesn't mix up with through traffic. Bus priority lanes have not been defined well - left to traffic police for enforcement is it? Lets see. Unless you make them dedicated, you would be encouraging car junta via signal elimination.
  • Talk of yet another byelaw amendment to provide for adequate parking facilities when there is little enforcement happening on the ground. On the whole, there are no "execution" side suggestions. BBMP is short staffed and crippled for authority due to overlaps. Addressing that would do it, don't need more byelaw tuning.
  • No talk of extending catchment areas of BMTC bus stands via investment in local area transportation (shuttles, locally bound autos, anything similar). Big 10 bus service etc will fail unless we all can get a way to reach the bus stands.
  • Suggestion of more gadgetry for Traffic Police, no talk of getting into their operations. Are 1800 cops enough? What targets are set each of them? How is their performance measured?
  • At one place, RK and Prof Mahesh say Road widening will be discouraged (slide 6), but then slide 28 talks of asking Defence, St John's etc for land to widen roads.
  • Slide 12 is confusing - It first says ORR to be made signal free. And then, there is talk of elevated ORR on the median. Why not just go elevated if thats thought of as the way forward, why waste money on signal elimination? Unless I am not reading it right, this section of the report is a bit rushed.
  • No backing data for the ten identified corridors. An exmaple from my area makes me say this. Why pick Varthur Road when the road going towards ITPL sees five times more traffic than the road going towards Varthur Lake? That one example tells me that other corridors too may not have been picked in data-backed or scientific way. Prof Ashwin Mahesh has all the data on vehicle movements, hope that was an input to this report.

Alright. Likely that I have not read something right so a criticism here would be unjustified. Will keep correcting myself as I read the report a third or fourth time.

Anyway, Hope ABIDe ignores criticism etc for some of the points here, thats part of the game, neither are they paid experts, nor us. Execute well and in standards-driven fashion on half of the things in this report, and we will be home. Look forward to the followups :)

idontspam's picture

Big 10 and rail

up
111 users have liked.
The big 10 and most of the suggestions pander to the car junta. I dont think the big 10 is a bad idea. I would have loved to see some alternative rail based proposals to connect the satellite towns. There is too much road in there even if it is good. A shinkansen type train from Bangalore will take little over 30 mins to reach mysore. It beats any road system you will put your money on. With supplementary hourly commuter rail serving towns in between. Imagine what a 30 min travel to mysore will mean to decongestion plans, heck I will move to mysore.
Transmogrifier's picture

Further inputs on ABIDE-Transportation blueprint

up
110 users have liked.
SB even I had to read through Slide 12 a couple of times (the part of making ORR elevated and signal free). My take home was that the decision on making portions elevated was to be made after its signal free and not right now. Personally though, a BRTS along ORR is not going to work if it is signal free (why take a bus when my own 2W/car can get me there in less time), unless they toll it. Which I think BDA can justifiably do after it is signal free... and yes even the 2W(s) and autos need to be tolled. Also,
  • In theory, the Big 10 is a good idea. Case in point, OMR is an excellent candidate when it comes to elimination of a few junctions. The terrifying part is this, let's assume it all works out....traffic from the outer edges can now come flying in from all directions.... and go where?!! MG Road....KG Road, KR Market!! On the plus side though, this might be an excellent chance to implement a congestion charge (The car junta has great access to the CBD but you have to pay for it....heftily!). Combine it with the proposed bus-priority (although as SB suggests ideally bus-exclusive is better) lane even for a just a couple of hours in the morning and evening and that could spur the paradigm shift in use of public trans. We've done enough carrots (underpasses, overpasses, bypasses et al.) and it's not  working...it's time to introduce some sticks too.
  • Slide 23 talks about Namma metro providing adequate pedestrian infrastucture and (the proverbial) seamless integration with bus facilities. Great! Not so great... the clause that NM should provide sufficient parking for two wheelers, 4 wheelers etc. For end-of-the-line stations maybe, for all others not just is this hard to implement, but implies that I do end up taking my personal mode of transporation out of my house defeating the the whole premise of public transportation.
  • The idea of a Public Address System on each traffic junction (Slide 25) ...umm... thanks but no thanks! There is no pressing need to create any more noise than we already have on our roads!  By the way, did anyone notice that the clockwise and anti-clockwise HOHO labels were switched (Slide 22).

Having found all these flaws though, I think it's an excellent attempt at arriving at solutions and especially sound in looking for solutions at all scales (pedestrian cross walks through till STRR).

There (still is) light at the end of this tunnel.

transmogrifier

TM

Sudhirgota's picture

ABIDE-Transportation blueprint

up
108 users have liked.
Quick review suggests that same mistakes are being made again. It looks like a blue print for vehicles, No mention of pedestrian zones, cycle lanes etc. The cycles are mentioned in circular lakeside roads. But I fail to understand why destroy the aesthetics by allowing motorized vehicles to speed along next to lakes (is it because of less number of junctions?). Could have opted for Bicycle sharing schemes, removal of parking spaces from CBD’s. This year the SUT award went to New York. They should look at these cities (New York beat the likes of Beijing, Istanbul, Mexico City, Milan ). Much emphasis on improving the speeds and if executed would be able to increase it by couple of Kmph for few years:-) I am little confused as to how the priority lanes would be provided to buses in Bangalore? Though i know about priority lanes but what are they thinking in Bangalore? Can somebody enlighten me?

Wrote to Rajeev Chandarshekar

up
125 users have liked.
I wrote to Rajeev Chandrashekar and mentioned that he needs to give emphasis to Metro and BMLTA instead of succumbing to the signal free disease as mentioned by Dr Adhiraj Joglekar, who blogs here.

Below is my critique of the Bengaluru 2020 plan:

http://musingsfrommalleswaram.blogspot.com/ 
Vinay's picture

"idontspam", regarding the job

up
132 users have liked.
Do we know any details yet? Is there any scope for doing this "part time"? Without pay. If this is possible, I can try to pull in a few volunteers too. Do you know if there is any scope for this?

idontspam's picture

Vinay: Re the job

up
103 users have liked.
No I dont know the details, I was just complimenting ABIDe on the good suggestion.

But, I dont think this will be volunteering or part time type. If it gets accepted and implemented it will probably be a full fledged 'govt' job.

Personally, my view, like SB's, is that part time and volunteer doesnt work for a job where you need to be accountable to the results.

Meanwhile, I have updated Gyan with example pedestrian ramp specs. Need to beef up the data.
Nitinjhanwar's picture

MoUD funding guidleines for BRTS

up
125 users have liked.

mcadambi,

Your idea of signal free expreesways being not good and more accident prone can only be bought when the experts don't come with devices to limit and educate the speed and lane dicipline of traffic.

Why I am blogging right now is that MoUD has put aside a fund for financing the latest technological buses upto 50%.this is for cities with BRTS and JNNURM.

This should take care of the feeder buses procurement for the metro- but some guidelines have to be adhered to by the respective city bodies.In jaipur the whole financial model was given a revision notice by the center and it has to be done again with new buses, and parking policy and other things have to integrated.

nJ

-nJ-

919462900144

www.nitinjhanwar.biz

silkboard's picture

Sudhirgota - pedestrians

up
133 users have liked.

I thought there is fair bit of talk of pedestrians in there, lot lot better than what has been in the past.

Metro chief understands the value of ped facilties, I am sure he would have sold the value to ABIDe and everyone else by now. How much distance will people be willing to walk, hos much discomfort will it involve in walking that distance - these aspects will make or break BMRCL's numbers. BMTC doesn't get it, simple investments in ped facilities so that ppl can walk 500-600 meters to get to bus stops or change buses can do a lot. We have tons of examples to prove the point, but this is not the thread.

Can someone started a separate thread to describe the other "blueprints" they have uploaded on the ABIDe website?

idontspam's picture

BMRC Ped Vs BBMP Ped

up
127 users have liked.

We may end up with a big difference in the ped facilities in metro vs what is on the streets. While BMRC may end up (we dont know yet) with disabled friendly facilities it will be waste if the rest of the city cant help the disabled and normal ped get upto the metro on proper sidewalks.

There are no concrete suggestions in the document at the level of the big 10 suggestions for the pedestrians.

blrnews's picture

Footpath obstructions

up
125 users have liked.
Any mention of removing transformers and other electrical/telecom installations of BESCOM/BSNL from footpaths?
asj's picture

Not exciting

up
122 users have liked.

SB,
Can't share your optimism. Sudhir Gota is right  as mention for pedestrian facilities has been done in a very nominal manner (pedestrian facilities is not just footpaths, they include zebra crossings, crossing facilities at signals, pedestrian refuges - the whole lot). A lot of the plan is not in keeping with principles of sustainable transport. If you ask 10 roadsiders what they would do to turn the city around the answers will be as above. Unfortunately what seems logical - ie signal free roads, road widening, the constant talk of underpasses / via ducts / flyovers, FSI increases (which no doubt will be exploited) are actually likely to be the very reasons for future failures. Centralized databses of vehicle registration and driving licenses - what good is that if there is no reform of driver training standards? Sudhir Gota has asked another significant question - bus lanes - yes, but how, where, when.................this is a very broad plan with no real teeth. What about road markings - why is it that we have such grandiose ideas being thrown at us when Bangalore probably has not got one GIVEWAY sign erected and painted anywhere? Absolutely nothing with regards traffic demand management - that makes this plan a simple capacity building exercise - capacity that will get clogged within a decade.

ASJ

 

rs's picture

Kannada Flag

up
111 users have liked.

The comment is moved here

 

Vinay's picture

Regarding flag

Vinay's picture

Errata

murali772's picture

bus services

up
138 users have liked.

I'll for the time being comment more on bus services. It's as below:

1) HOHO services
- excellent idea
- if operating only in one direction, they should run anti-clockwise, so as to avoid right turns
- the 8 to 10 km circuits, with single uniform fare per ride is perfect
- perhaps there should be more such circuits with short overlaps (like the Olympic rings) between adjoining circuits, and the buses on each of the circuits can have different colour codings (like with the London city tourist services). This way, bus running on Kanakpura road, Mysore road, Magadi road, Tumkur road, etc need not be brought all the way to MG road, but can instead be linked to the nearest HOHO circuits. Yes, somebody coming from say Bidadi to M G road, will have to make two changes. But, since frequencies are going to far higher now, this problem will get neutralised.

2) Big 10 services
Would be better to charge single uniform fare per ride, rather than the proposed two-stage fare system, since it will help avoid having conductors and therewith more than compensate the slight loss in revenue. The total length of run can also be reduced (again to 8 to 10 km - Yelehanka to Mekhri circle) simultaneous with the operation of more HOHO circuits.

BMTC operations planning all these years has been based on a fallacy that the public will militate against changing the traditional end-to-end single ride service that they have been striving to provide, leading to having some 1800 odd routes. But, in this process, the frequency of operations is far between, and missing a bus, is leading to people having to spend heavily on autos. With short circuit operations, the frequencies can be increased considerably, more than compensating for the disadvantage of having to make one or two changes, simultaneously reducing the overall trip time also considerably.    

3) There's plenty of scope for operating HOHO kind of services in the outlying areas to link the big 10 services, as also METRO stations (as and when they come up), and it will be best to farm these out to private players. The idea should be to discourage people taking out their vehicles, except for leisure and week-end activities.

4) In view of this revised outlook, the location of the earlier proposed TTMCs should be reviewed (atleast the ones where the construction work has not started).

Additional Notes:
A) There need be no fear of clash of interest between BMRC and bus services. The best part of bus services is its flexibility, and the circuiting can always be revised easily provided permanent structures like 'dedicated lanes' etc are not constructed. In that respect, the proposal for 'bus (+ taxi's) exclusive during peak hours' lanes/ roads is most welcome compared to 'dedicated lanes'.

B) The 'bus exclusive lane (during peak hours)' idea, if implemented, will simultaneously discourage use of personal vehicles, which has to be furthered by imposing congestion fees in city centres. These kinds of harsh measures are imperative if we are to handle the vehicle population growth of the order of some 1300 a day.

C) With the above measures, three-wheeler autos can be phased out from the inner city (within the outer ring road) over a period of say a year. The auto owners may be helped to switch to operating taxi's (possibly NANO).

D) Major stretches of the CBD can be totally pedestrianised, with shuttle bus services linking the METRO/ HOHO bus stops/ parking lots. There appears to have been a suggestion from a certain traffic expert that avenue trees are to be avoided, and trees limited just to parks. The suggestion possibly stems from the thinking that it will then facilitate road widening indefinitely. It is time such thinking is put a stop to totally. Yes, rain tree, etc are not suited as avenue trees. But, there are many other varieties, and they add character to the city scape, and are very much required.

E) BMTC is losing heavily on the high-end services. This again is best farmed out to reputed private players. Check -

http://praja.in/bangalore/blog/murali772/2008/06/01/bus-services-a-different-approach

 

Muralidhar Rao

Muralidhar Rao
kbsyed61's picture

Bus Service should be one important piece !

up
125 users have liked.

 Murali Sir,

 Thanks for your eloborate thoughts on making Bus Service to be one big piece of bigger schemes of ABIDE. I will incorporate your suggestions into my presentation. Some have been already added. Some will be added now. I did a small analysis to see if the Naryanan's post on BMTC Zones & Routes make sense. Along with I also did tried to put the various customer/passenger/entity needs for transport and matching the needed fixes. It stands out that Little overhaul of Public transport can mitigate 40-60% of the Bangalore's daily commute needs. As I can not include files/charts to comment, I will make separate post to include those analysis data.

Syed

 

 

Transmogrifier's picture

Let's keep our Autos

up
119 users have liked.
Murali sir,

I would vote on keeping our autos. It's what makes us, us. We can modify them, move them to CNG (incidentally autos are much quieter straight out of the factory when you hear them at Khivraj/Jatti) and maybe even convince Rahul Bajaj to make Li-ion powered autos in the near future. Making them better drivers too wouldn't hurt. But I wouldn't want to see them replaced with Nano(s). What would happen to all those Bangalore auto videos on Youtube then?!

transmogrifier

TM

kbsyed61's picture

Auto/Taxi/Cabs/MiniVan as part of Public Transport System !

up
127 users have liked.

transmogrifier,

 Very well said about Autos. They should be part of the public transport system along with Cabs/Taxis/Mine-vans instead of competing with it. We need to make use of each and every existing PT assets that fits the larger interests. In that scheme, Auto, Taxis, Cabs/MinVans can supplement the Bus service for last mile/feeder connectivity. ONE FARE could also include the last mile connectivity. I think it is already done in BIA VV service.

 Syed

Vasanth's picture

Office Indicabs to be replaced by Nanos

up
129 users have liked.

Call Centre / IT / BPO cabs are today run on powerful Indicas, Sumos and Qualis. These powerful vehicles handled by uneducated and insensible drivers are causing the casualities today. Even if Government puts speed lock, they will easily remove it. Easiest way is to reduce the power of the vehicle itself.

Nano should replace all the cabs. Powered less at 31bhp compared to 65bhp of Indica, drivers will get less out of it. For the city limits, it should be more than sufficient.

Vasanth's picture

ABIDe conservative or afraid of BRT

up
117 users have liked.

Bus Lane Marking on Big 10 roads will never workout in Bangalore. It works only in countries with disciplined traffic like London. I believe that the ABIDe authors are afraid of Delhi like situation if they implement BRT, so is BMTC. If transport planners and service providers are afraid of failures, our city will never come out of this Chaotic situation.

It was a bold move Delhi took and it is being even better planned just like Bogota & Curitiba in Ahmeadabad under JNNURM. Big 10 roads should essentially have BRT if the roads are widened or Metro/Mono. Ahmeadabad is even implementing elevated BRT which earlier we disscussed here on Praja.

idontspam's picture

Why BRT?

up
126 users have liked.
The only gripe I have with BRT is if we are dedicating corridors on streets we may as well run tram-trains on them to carry more people. The biggest buses carry utpo 250 pax where as a standard 2 car tram-train can carry upto 600. I dont mind running bus on non dedicated priority lanes but it offers very few advantages over tram-trains when on corridors. We have to evaluate more such train based options.
murali772's picture

HSRL brought in behind ABIDe's back?

up
120 users have liked.

Last evening, I was at the BCIC infrastructure committee meeting chaired by Devesh. Prof Ashwin Mahesh made a short prsentation on ABIDe's proposals on traffic and transport issues. My earlier posting was largely a response to that (I have sent it to him separately - whatever, he accesses PRAJA fairly regularly, on his own, also).

Subsequently, there was a presentation by Mr Akhil Agarwal, Divl Rly Manager, which covered Commuter Rail connectivity to BIAL, amongst other things.

The irony of it all is that none of any of the high profile lot present there, including Mr R Jaiprasad, adviser to BBMP, seemed to have even an inkling of the simultaneous action being taken by the state cabinet, meeting in Belgaum, to pass the Rs 6,000 cr HSRL link to the airport (reported in the press today). There is absolutely no indication of it in the ABIDe proposal either.

The question that arises then is whether the government is at all serious about ABIDe. Or, does it look at it as just one more committee whose report can be left to gather dust after making all the suitable kind of noises? The presence of people like Prof Ashwin Mahesh on it had lend it a certain credibility. But, when even he is not taken into confidence by the government, what is one to make of this whole exercise?

Besides, it was thought that the hare-brained idea was long given up as totally unviable. Perhaps the government lot involved couldn't resist the temptation of the kickbacks on such a juicy project!

Any body has any answers?    

Muralidhar Rao

Muralidhar Rao

CBD should be made free of vehicles

up
109 users have liked.
Cities like Singapore and even Lahore as I indicated in the past have FSI / FAR of 15 or 16 in their CBDs. Once the Metro station in MG Road / Cricket Stadium / Vidhana Soudha is put up, then the CBD FSI / FAR can be raised with road width and plot size as determining parameters. The new building rules should reflect the change in transport infrastructure.

Only emergency vehicles like Ambulances should be allowed in the CBD. TTMCs should function in the peripheries of the CBD. Cycles could only be allowed in the CBD.

Wishful thinking and an aam admi's dreams!



kbsyed61's picture

Public Transport Vehicles should get priority on Road Usage!

up
117 users have liked.

 A city like Bangalore, in its CBD, majority of the roads are narrow and there is hardly any provision for road widening without damaging/uprooting the trees, demolishing private structures etc. In this conditions, better would be to not widen the roads, instead design the traffic movement on such roads such that Public transport vehicles would get the first priority.

That is, If the road or a stretch is narrow and can not accommodate both PT buses and Private Vehicles, then on that stretch private vehicles must not be allowed to play. Only Buses or feeder vehicles only should be allowed to use the roads. There is no other way to stop this madness of road widening and at the same time crying for promoting public transport usage. For mass public transport system to succeed in Bangalore, the Public Transport vehicles should move at a reasonable speed, certainly much above the current avg speed of 10-20 kms/hr. For that to happen, the ground infrastructure environment must present:

  1. Zero/negligible congestion on roads, intersections and bus tops.
  2. Safety embedded in the operation and maintenance
  3. Stops, roads, signals all supplementing the faster and safe movement.

 Syed

idontspam's picture

Not an answer but...

up
133 users have liked.
ABIDe is advisory in nature. Looks like it forms a convinient front in these days of RTI and clamour for citizen participation. We call ourselves a democracy but somehow dont have a concept of citizens voting on projects.

I am not entirely dissapointed with the option as long as other options also exist for the rest of the people. But how much of the capex is going to be borne by the citizens will be interesting to watch. It is possible to structure the deal to have the private party put up the capital and take in the revenues over time. We would rather have the users of the service pay for it than the entire city. Of course around a tenth of the estimated value is land costs which we have to see who bears.
rs's picture

Kannada Flag part 2

rs's picture

Pedestrianization

up
151 users have liked.
Yes, it would be really nice - and in fact it would be very easy to do.

Close up MG road between Anil Kumble Circle and Brigade Road. Close Brigade road - force traffic to go around Mayo hall to get on to Hosur Road. Close up all the small streets like Church Street and Residency Cross Road to all traffic except for those who live there - this is easily achieved by having some sort of radio device which lowers a barrier. Of course one has to allow delivery trucks up to a certain hour of the morning - say 11 am. and perhaps after 11 pm as well.  One has to make some provision for parking in the adjoining areas though - perhaps a large car park should be built and used for the public and not sold to some big corporations like HP.

The same should be done for Commercial street and its environs. And in fact in several other places - Malleswaram 8th Cross between Sampige and Margosa.

Though I dont think this will ever happen. People are too selfish.

Ramesh
Devesh's picture

BCIC Infrastructure meeting - ABIDe and DRM Railways

up
117 users have liked.

Thanks for the post Murali. A good progress is being made at the Infrastructure Committee.

Incidentally, the HOHO circular bus system that ABIDe is promoting, is a direct effort of the Infra Committee, of which some Prajagale are also a part. I don't think, we care about ownership of the idea, as much as we do of the complete implementation. Part of the HOHO idea is to have a micro circuit for the CBD like MG Road and Cubbon Road area. Similar shuttle services are being planned in the industrial areas of Peenya and EC/Bommasandra, with the intention of also improving frequency of trunk route buses. With a HOHO service in Peenya, a bus from Shivajinagar or KBS etc., can be terminated at the Peenya bus interchange, rather than going all the way in to the deepest recesses of Peenya, thus being turned around faster.

A longer term approach of the micro MG / Cubbon Road HOHO, would be to make parking extremely expensive in this area. Rs. 50 per 30 minutes, in parallel with a parking lot at one corner of the CBD.

The DRM made some very good points, and was generally positive in his approach. He is facing certain technical constraints, but we should work with them to arrive at a solution. The DRM has asked for a meeting with a BCIC delegation so specific points can be discussed. I do not know who is the Railways specialist on Praja, but I request for that person to put together some ideas around CRS, and be part of the delegation.

Please appreciate, while we are part of the overall pppulace, we will emphasize points of importance to industry such as a commuter rail between Bidadi-Bangalore-Hosur, Byapanahalli-Whitefield, Bangalore-Tumkur, etc. Express trains in the mornings and evenings between Bangalore and Mysore, etc.

With regards to HSRL, I think Prajagale know my view. We need a rail link to the airport that is all inclusive and not only passenger oriented. In fact professional consulting firms, some who are advising BIAL, are also of the same view. One of them wrote to me "The discussion regarding the BIA connectivy is indeed a major issue which has to be solved in the near future. We share your point of view that the HSRL will never fulfill the reuqirements of the airport and I do not understand how the politics can give a go ahead to such a project which never ever will fly!"

I was at the ABIDe consultation meet this morning. Mr. Rajiv Chandrashekar said that the government has approved the HSRL to the point at which the proposals are invited and the promoters come back to government for VGF (Viability Gap Funding). At that point, it will be seen if the VGF request is justifiable. Almost everyone expects this to be in the area of 3K-6K Crores. In my opinion, the government does not have this money. The coffers are empty.

My fear is that the HSRL will become another repeat of BIA or NICE in terms of signing away massive public land. Dr. Sreedharan is rumoured to have circulated a note, where it will be the Government, not the private promoter that will acquire the land, and hand it over to the HSRL project. Imagine the value of a 7.5 meter strip of land all the way from Minsk square till BIA. It will be 10K crore or more.

I think we have recent experiences with this type of land exchange, and they have not been present.

We have to let government know. Easiest way, I feel, is to write a letter to the Chief Minister, and a copy to ABIDe. Do not make it long. Just say, you prefer an alternate connection to BIA instead of HSRL. Metro or mono, it does not matter. Let the CM find the solution with ABIDe and others.

Politicians get away with these moves, becuase no one writes to them and reminds them, we are watching.

-----------------------

Regards

Devesh R. Agarwal

Bangalore Aviation

 

-----------------------
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD
s_yajaman's picture

Thanks Devesh - what assumptions do we make for the design?

up
111 users have liked.

I agree that we need to plan some sort of rail link to the airport.  I am working with a friend (ex IR) to come out with some ideas of what is possible.  I think some broad parameters/assumptions need to be fixed.  My own thinking

a. By the time this is ready Bangalore airport traffic will be about 12 million/annum growing at 10% per year - fair?

b. There will be about 10000 people working at BIAL growing at 3-5% p.a - fair?

c. About 50% of airport passengers and 75% of employees will use this train making it a daily traffic of 15000 + 15000 = 30000 passengers both ways growing at about 6% p.a.

d. We will need trains at least every 20 mins with a train every 10 mins leading into peak hours in the morning/evening

e.  Journey time from station to BIAL should not be more than 40 mins (an average of 45 kmph).  Top speed of this train need not be more than 80 kmph.

f. BIAL will provide land and last mile connectivity.  BMTC will provide connectivity to station from within the city.  There will be space provided for BMTC to operate.

g. We will use air-conditioned DMUs 4-6 coaches with a capacity of 300-400. 

h. We will charge Rs.150/ticket for airport passengers and Rs.50 for BIAL/airline employees (if they show their badges).  With this revenues will be Rs.135 crores a year growing at about 6-8% per year.  (BTW - with an investment of Rs.1000 crores and a profit margin of Rs.20%, this will just about have a positive NPV over 25 years).

Sounds reasonable?

How do we write a letter to the CM?  We simply cannot afford to keep signing off public land or use the taxpayers money to fund flights of fantasy.  In fact Albert Brunner as well mentioned that a rail link that is exclusively for passengers will not work out. 

Do we write an individual letter or a Praja letter?

Srivathsa

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

asj's picture

Rickshaws

up
150 users have liked.
I support Muraliji. Below I am copy pasting what I shared with Pune Commissioner recently -

  1. There is evidence that what was once a signle stroke water pump engine turned in to a people carrier is one of the most polluting vehicles on our roads. One must also factor in the noise pollution caused by the 3 wheelers.
  2. Rather than being a custom made vehicles it was a contraption born out need (no other transport means were available) - for this reason, it has remained the most un-scientific form of engineering. The center of gravity is an issue with this vehicle as many of our surgeon and orthopedic colleagues will tell stories of treating victims of RTAs caused by toppled rickshaws. This phenomenon is more common than one thinks.
  3. These are vehicles which over time have become faster (approaching 40 kph) but without any crash testing, no seat belts etc.
  4. The fact that they can do a 180 deg turn on the spot causes much of traffic chaos, congestion & accidents.
  5. That new registration of 3 wheelers has stopped a while ago should suggest that the numbers dwindle but this could take many years and many more lives or limbs lost.
  6. 50k or more of these contraptions occupy lot of space on our roads. Oft they idle away in what should be no parking zones or roam around empty (guzzling away).
  7. Instead a combination of BEST like bus service and 20k Tata Nano's as a cab service will be better for Pune. The former reduces need for ITP, the latter by being more expensive than a 3 wheeler will drive people towards buses and citizens will use them only when really required.
  8. 20k 4 wheel cabs when run on shift system will ensure that all current rickshaw drivers will remain employed (they should be given first preference and retrained).
  9. 20k as against 50k 3 wheelrs will help enormously rationalise the service. Further traffic regulation will improve vastly.
  10. Govt should regulate the private firms given licenses to run such schemes with regards quality and pricing.
  11. Major employers (cab firms) will also ensure that cab drivers are on pay rolls, have contributions made in to pension schemes, proper annual leave, work in shift hours that do not lead to driver fatigue (and hence reduce accidents)......the benefits are plenty.
BTW, in the past I have asked Bajaj Auto why their export version sold in EU countries is many times more expensive or indeed modified to health & safety standards of EU but the same is not applied to ricks sold in India? Is the life of an European more valuable than that of an Indian?

Many lunar months have passed and I am still waiting for an answer (the UK distributor did reply to say they only retail and referred me back to Bajaj).

It seems we want to be stuck to our past (not all of it is useful). The phenomenon is same - emotive rather than logic driven decision making - be it the whole misplaced debate on language or love to retain the rickshaw.

ASJ
idontspam's picture

Anybody from Praja?

up
108 users have liked.

ABIDe meet a success despite lukewarm response

Anybody from Praja was there? We cant count Devesh as he represents industry there by his own admission

silkboard's picture

Will a moderator/admin ...

up
127 users have liked.
Please move the krv/flag comments to a separate forum thread. I can't right now, or else i would have. We are also looking forward to new analytical threads on the other blueprints from abide. idontspam - We, as praja, havnt met abide. I had contacted mr rajeev chandrashekhar a few times, but i am sure he gets tons of meeting requests every day.
psaram42's picture

I was there and Devesh too

up
149 users have liked.

I was there and Devesh too 

I was there (as a volunteer) and Devesh, perhaps as an industry rep. 

It was a two hour meet. the points were

1. create mailing lists to circulate plan.
2. to be eyes and ears of abide and mobilise a web based reporting system
3. asist any of the groups with their domain knowledge and experiance.
4. more volunteers to circulate the reports and 
5. get as many bagalorians to read discuss and comment on the proposals. 

Before that I have to do a lot of reading of all the documents put up by abide on the web. 

On the committee side the following were there

1. Rajive Chandrasekar 
2. Dr A Ravindra 
3. RK Misra 
4. Ashwin Mahesh
5. Anita Reddy

They all spoke trying to explain about the documents abide has put up on the web. We have to set up a dialog with them after we go through the documents.

PSA

murali772's picture

DRM's presentation

up
143 users have liked.
This comment has been moved here.
Muralidhar Rao
murali772's picture

ABIDe presentation - no intimation

up
101 users have liked.

Though I am supposed to be a registered volunteer, and received many mails inviting me to comment on the proposals, I didn't receive any intimation whatsoever about the presentation in Koramangala club. I came to know about it only after seeing the press reports. And, then the talk of poor response - strange!

Muralidhar Rao

Muralidhar Rao
idontspam's picture

My feedback to ABIDe

up
131 users have liked.
SUB: Feedback on Traffic & transportation recommendations
 
Dear ABIDe,
Congratulations on bringing out the recommendations and inviting public suggestions. I have some suggestions which I would like to be considered for inclusion. I am available to explain my suggestions further if required.
 
- My suggestions on your recommendations for public transport.
 
While Big 10 is underway, focus needs to be on Train based mass transport beyond metro. ABIDe or Karnataka govt need to engage experts from Europe (France, Germany, Swiss) or Japan to suggest a world class train system.
 
For key routes where roads are wide and segments of Indian railway land or elevated space is available, tram-train based options which run on streets with or without dedicated lanes and at the same time carry larger number of people than Bus, BRTS etc should be considered
 
Commute to nearby cities identified in the report need to be drastically reduced. High quality mass transport (train based) to these nearby cities need to be started right now and connectivity planned properly.
 
- My suggestions on your recommendations for Pedestrians
 
I find inadequate guidelines for pedestrian facilities in the recommendations. Every street mandatorily needs to have 4 to 6 feet wide sidewalk and this needs to be included as a recommendation. For arterial or high speed roads crash barriers of appropriate types have to be erected to seperate the sidewalk from street traffic. These sidewalks have to be disabled friendly and a working group be setup under ABIDe to  standardize these very quickly and on priority.
 
- My suggestions on your recommendations for BMTC fleet augmentation
 
I do not agree with your recommendation to augment BMTC fleet without a route optimization effort being undertaken and corresponding data being available for justification. ABIDe has to get a neutral experts from organizations like Singapores SBS transit on how best to depoly the current fleet optimally. The study should also take into account traffic shared by Metro and possible realignment to feeder services.
 
Let me convey my appreciation on your suggestion of BMLTA hiring a wider breadth of white collar positions. I am sure it will go a long way in bringing in perspectives and expertise. 
 
With Regards
bayern's picture

ABIDe in favor of HSRL project

up
102 users have liked.
From the report below it appears ABIDe were/are in favor of HSRL project



Express News Service First Published : 25 Jan 2009 08:06:00 AM ISTLast Updated : 25 Jan 2009 12:21:09 PM ISTBANGALORE: Tepid is the word that is apt for the response evoked by Agenda for Bangalore Infrastructure and Development Task Force's (ABIDe) first volunteer meet. Of the 400-odd people who had registered at the task force's website, only 50 turned up at the meet organised at the premises of the Kormangala club on Saturday.

The meet was organised for the volunteers to discuss and evaluate the plans that have been drawn by the ABIDe members. Member of Parliament and convener of ABIDe Rajeev Chandrasekhar and former chief secretary RRavindra presented their plans on governance, Anita Reddy from AWAS and IIMB's Ashwin Mahesh along with RK Mishra made brief presentations on plans for urban poor and transport. Devesh Agarwal from Bangalore Chamber of Commerce and Industry questioned the importance given by the government to the suggestions of the Task Force.

"The government is going ahead with the High Speed Rail Link to the airport despite ABIDe expressing its reservations about the project. This doesn't reflect well on ABIDe," he regretted. Chandrashekar clarified that ABIDe was never opposed to the HSRLproject. He said the fact that Chief Minister is chairperson of the task force means that government would implement its recommendation. Volunteers were told of their respective roles and responsibilities. Chandrashekar said that the key role of the volunteers in the task force would be to circulate reports and developments to get as many volunteers to read, discuss and comment on the plans.

s_yajaman's picture

Initial comments

up
113 users have liked.

Managed a quick read through the transportation plan

a. I liked the guiding principles part of the document - for two reasons.  One that there are actually guiding principles and two that the guiding principles overlap with my bias. I think the fact that they recognize that funds are limited is a big breakthrough in itself rather than announcing elevated roads and trains running all over the city.  I like that pedestrians and public transport have been called out as a priority.  Proof of the pudding will be in the eating though and in the funds allocated for pedestrians (someone needs  to remind them that it is most likely the pedestrian who votes and not the BMW user).

b. I like the focused attention on the big 10.  It makes sense.  I don't agree with the junction removal approach.  At best remove junctions leading away from the city so that one-half of the drive becomes easier.  As TM says above, I will sail through Bannerghatta Road only to find myself stuck on Museum road.  How does that help?  Signals are not a problem.  Signals help regulate traffic.  Let us say I have a 10 km stretch of road with signals every 1 km.   Let us say that I wait ON THE AVERAGE 1 min per signal.  That makes it 10 mins wait.  Let us say because I have streamlined traffic by having uniform usable lanes throughout, I can drive at an average of 40 kmph between signals.  That makes it 15 mins of driving time + 10 mins of waiting time = 25 mins for a 10 km journey - better than 30 kmph.  Compare this to speeding at 60 kmph and then spending 30 mins trying to clear a mega mess.  Any supply chain works best with small lot sizes (please read Eliyahu Goldratt's _ The Goal for more details).  Signals reduce lot sizes to manageable proportions.  Chaos at a junction is probably proportional to some power of the number of vehicles there.   Maybe remove junctions only outside ORR (assuming that ORR is where 50-60% of the people branch off). 

c. They need to push pedestrian facilities - good footpaths with iron railings, pedestrian crossings - surface, under, over, have refuges on one-ways doubling up as lane markers.

d. Buses - doubling is not the solution.  5000 buses are enough to provide us good public transport.  Narayan and Syed's ideas need some study.  

e. Did not see enough on Namma Metro in there.  If there is one thing that needs kick up its backside it is Namma Metro's progress.  In Bombay the Reliance Metro is coming up quite fast and that too on the very very crowded Andheri Kurla Road.

f. On city wise statistics - Delhi's average speed along major corridors is 15 kmph or thereabouts - just goes to show that wide roads and flyovers cannot solve the problem

Srivathsa

 

 

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

Vasanth's picture

Re : Rickshaws

up
141 users have liked.

There needs a change or a replacement of rickhsaws. One thing this can be achieved is:

1. A professional company like Meru or Easy Cabs starting premium low cost lpg driven car services easily available  folike the Rickshaws.

2. All other rickshaw drivers will try to follow suit. This is evident from the recent airport taxis. Earlier there was a strict opposition to the Meru and Easy Cabs by KSTDC City Taxi Drivers. Later on KSTDC too started similar service matching the Meru and Easy Cabs.

3. Why isn't a professional company taking up. Why not Government take an initiative and Quote a tender for two companies for the license. Mumbai recently has got lady taxi drivers driving only for ladies in LPG Wagon Rs. Why not such initiatives not ahapening in Bangalore.

 

 

srinidhi's picture

replacing auto's..

up
98 users have liked.
Its high time these noisy wily contraptions move out of the streets..as replacements we can actually look at the TATA Winger which is built on the ACE platform

These vehicles are very affordable and as Vasanth was mentioning before they are low powered and dont go too fast either..these should replace the indica's for ferrying people!

asj's picture

See how easy it is to pedestrianise

up
98 users have liked.
Here is a document compiling images how easy it is to create pedestrianised zones where one may add hawking / vending facilities with great ease - all this without obstructing footpaths or roads (in fact it is a great way of enhancing the footpaths and roads).

You can access this document from here http://better.pune.googlepages.com/Example_of_pedestrianisation.pdf

ASJ
Transmogrifier's picture

BMTC Big 10 adn HOHO service: work in progess?

up
92 users have liked.
This comment has been moved here.

TM

Vasanth's picture

ABIDE Big 10

up
122 users have liked.

Few of the Big 10 roads will be addressed by the 1st Phase Metro.

OMR & Tumkur Road are the two. Once the Metro is in place, a satellite bus stand at Hesargatta Cross and Byappanahalli.  Extension of Phase 1 Metro till Kadugodi would have served a major traffic area just like the extension till Hesargatta Cross and Puttenahalli. Till then frequent buses probably a BRT between Byappanahalli to Kadugodi bus stand can be considered.

Devanahalli Road - Metro phase 2 till Yelahanka and the HSRL to airport should take off the load - But after 10 years from now?

Hosur Road  - Again, Metro Phase 2 - 10 years from now? BETL should take off the load of EC bound cars and Tamilnadu bound buses . But, how will it be its toll pricing? Will our vehicle users take up BETL or will the Hosur Road traffic remains the same?

Pedestrain facilities are very poor here with so many offices. People have to get down the bus on the main road without foot path, cross the speeding service road. Hosur road has claimed so many lives because of its poor design and arrogant drivers driving on it. Still Government has not woken up. How many more lives has to go?

Something like a Delhi BRT corridor with skywalks for crossing the road needs to be implemented from Silkboard to EC. Buses should be started from Silkboard to EC over the BETL.

Kanakapura Road - A Mono from NICE Road junction to Banashankari Metro Station. This will improve the access to Anjanapura where BDA locality is lying idle from years. A public Transit on the NICE peripheral Road between EC to Hesargatta Cross should give easy access to EC via Kanakapura Road if provided.

Magadi Road - A mono from NICE road to Vijaynagar Metro Station.

Bannerghatta Road - What I have seen personally since I work on this Road is Saturdays and Sundays, when there are no offices, this road is vacant, it is all the office bound traffic, not much truck traffic like OMR, Mysore Road which affects this road.

RITES recommended Mono from Bannerghatta Park to Diary Circle. I would suggest to extend till the CMH Road Metro Station. It links the Airport Road as well as 1st Phase Metro.

Airport Road - It was told the second phase Metro would pass through Airport Road till Marathalli. It is not confirmed yet. Please update us if any one of you have the details because they were telling another line of Metro between Katriguppe to ITPL. Trinity Circle to Marathalli linking the ORR Metro/Mono should be considered.

Outer Ring Road - A Metro  or High Capacity Mono from Nagarbhavi Layout till Hebbal via Nayandahalli, Silkboard, Marathall, KR Puram.  The other half can be served by frequent buses.

Mysore Road - Majestic to Mysore Road will be served by 1st Phase Metro. Extension of Mysore Road Flyover till Nayandahalli work of which has not started yet should take pace.

Public Transit using light rail or buses on the NICE peripheral road between EC to  Hesaragatta Cross should also ease the traffic.

Metro, Mono on the big 10 are the best solutions rather than just road widening which only just attracts the traffic. 

idontspam's picture

Oxymoron

up
142 users have liked.

High Capacity Mono

This is an oxymoron and unreasonable expectation from a theme park attraction.

Metro, Mono on the big 10 are the best solutions

Allow me to rephrase

Metro, Tram-Train on the big 10 are the best solutions

If you have dedicated space, run metro rolling stock. Its got the best capacity. Next is tram-train with similar capacity structurally built for low floor at grade ops

s_yajaman's picture

A case for reviewing one-ways

up
138 users have liked.

Central Bangalore is full of one ways.  Residency Road, Richmond Road, Mallya Road, Sampangi Tank Road, Museum Road, St. Mark's Road.  Have these really made any difference to the traffic situation or are we just pushing the mess to the next junction hoping it will somehow take care of itself. 

Look at Residency Road e.g.  The road continuously narrows from Cash Pharmacy towards Mayo Hall and more traffic gets added along the way (St Marks Road and from Museum Road coming from Vellara Jn).  There is haphazard parking near Imperial by autos.  Then the road really narrows down near Galaxy.   Not sure why the St.Mark's Road one way rule was reversed some time back.  St.Marks Road branches off nicely at Cash Pharmacy and could have taken a load off going towards Shivaji Nagar.  But all this traffic moves on to the next stretch and more gets added in from St. Marks Road.

Ideally these one-ways should be revoked.  Wide roads without lane discipline mean more chaos.   If this is not deemed possible, then at least a bus lane should be provided against the one-way direction so that bus commuters don't have to go through the all the pain that they currently do. 

Also, it might be worthwhile to check if it makes sense to reverse the one-ways on Richmond Road/Residency Road.   I am trying to do an analysis of how that will help.  Ideally no one-way though,

Srivathsa

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

asj's picture

Some thoughts

up
113 users have liked.
  1. HOHO - is great but rather than specific routes, HOHO should be within zones and apply across all types of buses
  2. I do not favour a class system of buses. There should really be no difference between comfort levels. PT initiatives are great equalisers. This will only lead to confusion when it comes to route and frequency rationalisation.
  3. One ways - very wide one ways seem to be a quick fix our traffic planners have fallen in love with. Actually capacity remains same - if you have two roads parallel to each other each 2+2 lanes, it offers 4 lanes to traffic moving in one direction. One ways do not change anything in this regard. What they do is by taking away opposing traffic, the traffic lights phases reduce (hence cycle length is reduced).
  4. But try crossing 4 lanes!! We know how dangerous this is. Try changing lanes - if you join this road at point X on right and want to leave it at point Y on other side of the one way in 100 meters or so - imagine the chaos and danger posed by vehicles moving criss-corss - in fact this will slow down the traffic and off-set any benefit hoped for from such a system.
  5. Contra-flow bus lanes will help reduce issues pertaining to above two points. Part grade separation (see my proposal for SB road in Pune) with pedestrian refuges solves many problems, streamlines traffic along with well planned traffic signals.

ASJ
Vasanth's picture

Practicality Important than biasing towards a technology.

up
106 users have liked.

High Capacity Mono Oxymoron, I feel LRT on Bangalore's roads where even buses cannot run properly  is an Oxymoron. One's personal's preference & biasing of a particular mode should not get over the practicality of  technology  and requirements.

LRT is a cheaper option compared to Mono, but not as cheaper as a BRT or a priotorized bus lane. This is the truth discovered by Transport Planners over the years. Wherever BRT is considered, it can be looked for LRT if it is possible. If road widening is possible on Kanakapura Road, Magadi Road which are all 2 lane roads, either of these two options can be considered. Without road widening, we just have the option of Elevated Rail either in the form of Metro or Mono.

LRT  cannot be an alternative to  Elevated Metro for low carrying capacity since it operates at grade whereas Metro operates underground or elevated. Mono can be alternative to Elevated Metro.Monos are much cheaper and can take steeper turns and Gradients compared to steel rails.

Chennai is suffering between Jayalalitha's one mode of preference over the Karunanidhi's other mode. It is not heading anywhere.

Devegowda urged for Mono all over city whereas Metro is need as a backbone for the whole city.

There was a recent debate between RITES and Delhi Metro for Chandigarh agains Mono and Metro for low capacity regions of Chandigarh. It came to 17 crores for Mono per km whereas nearly 25 crores per km of Metro. I will post the link shortly..

idontspam's picture

Homework please

up
138 users have liked.

LRT cannot be an alternative to Metro for low carrying capacity since it operates at grade whereas Metro underground or elevated.

What has carrying capacity got to do with overhead or underground?

Mono can be alternative to Elevated.ELRTS can be alternative to Mono

This statement makes no sense. On what basis are these alternatives to one another? Please read up a little about these different modes.

Vasanth's picture

No Comments

up
122 users have liked.

I just want to make no comments.. I know everyone understood what I mean to say, but, comments above were just to mislead.

I am sticking to few guidelines which I followed while making healthy debates in Praja.

Otherwise it will become another mouthshut.com.

pathykv's picture

SIGNAL FREE K.R. CIRCLE

up
94 users have liked.
The K.R. Cicle is being modified as a signal-free cicle to facilitate vehicular traffic.
However the convenience of pedestrians/bus commuters should not be lost sight of.
As the one-way bus routes are in vogue already commuters are put to much hardship. In this circle and other such plans suitable provisions should be made for the bus commuters getting down at a particular bus stop to cross over to the other side to catch another bus in the other direction or to reach his destination. It should be user-friendly for senior citizens by avoiding too many sub ways/ climbs. Surface level pedestrian walkways have to be built in in the plans.
Hope the concerned designers will give sufficient thought to this aspect.
K.V.Pathy

Praja.in comment guidelines

Posting Guidelines apply for comments as well. No foul language, hate mongering or personal attacks. If criticizing third person or an authority, you must be fact based, as constructive as possible, and use gentle words. Avoid going off-topic no matter how nice your comment is. Moderators reserve the right to either edit or simply delete comments that don't meet these guidelines. If you are nice enough to realize you violated the guidelines, please save Moderators some time by editing and fixing yourself. Thanks!



about seo | blog