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Help required for design of alternatives

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[Promoted from a comment on "... End of Gandhi Bazaar?"]

Thanks Praveen/Srinidhi/Vasant. Apparently some 80 odd trees have been marked for cutting (substantial increase from the previous numbers in 2007). Praveen – though that Gulmohar is not marked as of now, but eventually it will chopped as all the trees on GB Mn Road will obstruct the fast moving traffic from BP Wadia Road towards RK Ashram. I do not have a diagram, but as per the press release done on 01-May-07, this starts opposite Police Station and end in front of the Post Office; such a bad design as this would cut off Police Station Road from K R Road and bring all the traffic on to Market Road, which is purely residential.

I had a chat with Mr.Yellappa Reddy yesterday on this. I told him that this is sheer waste of money and would solve no problem as Netkallappa Circle and National College Junction which are only few hundred meters away will get clogged, thus shifting the chaos by only few hundred meters. Also told him that Gandhi Bazaar Mn Road will become a road only for vehicles and shopping will be eventually discouraged. 

I did mention to him about the alternatives available to which he suggested that a presentation be made to the Committee. He has suggested that with the help of engineers we make a presentation to the committee. Accordingly the Committee would decide whether to give permission or not. 

Now, I need help from members of the group, engineers especially to design the alternatives and present the same to the Committee. Request help from members of the Group. I do remember a plan was posted on Koramangala main road. May be on similar lines! We could certainly meet during this week or towards weekend to take things forward. Please call me at 99026 40404. 

Comments

Naveen's picture

Tagore Circle Flyover

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Arun,

I have sent you an email. Please revert details, thanks.

asj's picture

Happy to help

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I am happy to pitch in my two pennies worth, but given that I do not have first hand knowledge of the current layout, a basic map and some pics along with what they intend to do will help. More importantly someone ought to make a written representation asking for a pause in these destructive unhelpful plans immediately. Otherwise while we brainstorm, they will mow down all remaining few natural assets of the city. ASJ
namma_nadu's picture

Killing Basavanagudi the concrete way

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This comment has been moved here.
asj's picture

Demand to put a stop to it

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I just checked the BDA website, the information on projects is rudimentry. Not one project is justified by way of traffic counts (peak and non-peak times), detailed maps and no effort seems to be in place to carry out a public consultation. There is no evidence from anywhere in the country that anything is gained in the long run from these stupid flyovers and under-passes by-passing junctions. One would hope there is some evidence, but you find nothing. I was reading about the Bellary road / Hebbal related projects - first they make all these contraptions, then because they don't work, they come back and widen the roads again. Its mindless and right now it seems endless. Knowing how these people work, they will probably respond only to a court stay order or people taking to streets (now that the elections are round the corner next year, this will be a perfect time). ASJ
do-it-yourself's picture

more info

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Completely agree with asj. Please post more info or let us meet.

I would hate to see the road on which my grandfather, who along with 'Masti' took leisurely walks and quipped that the 'chattri' was not for protection from the sun or rain but crow droppings, not be there for my son to experience and enjoy.
silkboard's picture

Map of the place in question

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Here is the traffic diversion press release on TOI

And this is the map of the area in question. the blue vertical line is how the underpass is going to be (my guess, based on what Arun is saying)

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Vasanth's picture

Here is the map

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Vasanth's picture

Two Squares can be effectively utilized

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Basically the underpass is proposed between the junction of BP Wadia Road and Krishanrajendra Road. Traffic from east to west on the BP Wadia Road going towards Hanumathnagar on one side of the Tagore circle (square).

North bound Krishnarajendra Road (KR Road) does not go about the Tagore circle, rather go straight next to the square as show in the arrow marks which is one problem. This should be made to go round about the tagore square the purpose of which it is called Tagore circle.

1. A long route, but easier proposal is to make the BP Wadia Road one way towards Kanakapura Road and make all the traffic coming from Jayanagar going towards Hanumanthnagar to go round about Krishnarao Park to facilitate the traffic movement on KR Road.

2. Second proposal is to construct Magic Underpass just for the KR Road south bound traffic. Bus stop needs to be moved further south. Have the KR Road North bound traffic to go about the Tagore Circle. BP Wadia Traffic towards Hanumanthnagar (West Bound) and the KR Road North Bound Traffic will merge for a short distance (near the Petrol Bunk). Underpass can be constructed without any damage to the trees since the road width on KR Road next to Tagore Circle will be wide enough since it will be one way.  Something in these lines should be thought of.  

I  was also thinking of BDA Junction for the KR Road south bound like Magic Overpass to eliminate the depth and shifing of utilities.

Photoyogi, if you could take some pictures of this spot and post the same, it would be great!!

Traffic volume is not as much to demand for a flyover here. It moves with 30secs to 1 minute waiting since it is only 3 road intersection, since the 4th road is just outbound (1 way away from signal).

Srivatsava's picture

Tagore Circle : Alternative to an underpass

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I was looking to improve upon the ‘rough’ solution proposed by Vasanth. Initially I did believe that the solution was in having about 2 magic box underpasses including one at Tagore circle, as proposed by Vasanth.

                Even as was working on the solution and presentation of the solution on a map, I started to analyse the pedestrian requirements of the area.  One thing to be observed is that, on all the four sides of MNK park, the roads have wide footpaths on both sides. It is extremely important to leave the footpaths unaltered because of the demographics of the pedestrians in the area, which are

·         MNK park attracts a large number of elderly people who come there for their dose of morning/evening walk.

·         Part of the park area is occupied by two government schools, and most of the students of the students of these schools come by public busses alighting at the Taxi Stand bus stop.

·         There are atleast three other private schools around the periphery of the MNK park.

All these mean that the footpaths should remain untouched, or be improved upon. More on this later in the post.

 

Javascript is required to view this map.

Another point to note is that Tagore Square is one of the four corners of MNK park (see map above). The three other corners of MNK park have roundabouts at the intersection, which along with the lone traffic signal (at the intersection of KR Road and Dewan Madhava Rao road) have been sufficient to handle the traffic on these four roads (around MNK park) and the 8-9 other  connected to the three roundabout. The problem at Tagore Square is the absence of such a roundabout. So, I propose to convert the Tagore Square (a small park) into a roundabout.

       The problem with the existing structure of Tagore Square is that the width of roads around the Tagore Square is too small. Also, since it is a square, vehicles will have to make 90 degree turns, which will further slow down the traffic moment. Hence, during the conversion of Tagore Square to a roundabout, we can widen the width of the road and decrease the area occupied by the Tagore square/circle.

       After a roundabout has been put in place,  we need to put a traffic signal at the intersection as shown in the figure below. (apologies for the mediocre quality of the diagram, created with Paint).

link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/32171393@N02/3008889751/

The point at which vehicles stop at the traffic signal is shown the three green and blue dots.  Vehicles coming on KR Road from National college (green line) will stop a little ahead of the post office for the signal. Vehicles from Gandhi Bazzar main road and taking a right turn to enter KR Road and BP Wadia Road ( blue line) should stop on the right half of the road. The vehicles coming on KR road (from Banashanakari side and) moving towards National college (red line) will go around the roundabout and take a free left turn. Assuming that BP Wadia Road is made one-way ( from KR Road to Kanakapura Road, as proposed by Vasanth), the vehicles travelling on KR road towards National college (red line) will not be hindered by the traffic signal.

If BP Wadia road is one-way, the travelling vehicles from RV Teachers College(Trinity hospital) towards Bugle Rock will have to take a left turn at Kanakapura Road, travel around the MNK park and return to KR Road and take a left turn at Tagore Circle. This will be minor detour of about 300-400 mts with one traffic signal ( even now, they encounter a signal at tagore circle).

Also note that Kanakapura road (from yediyur lake) splits for a small distance at MNK park. Hence, vehicles coming from Yediyur lake (Kanakapura Road) and going toward VV puram/lalbagh west gate will have take a left turn at the MNK park T junction, go around the roundabout to reach KR road and then proceed on the BP Wadia Road to reach VV puram/lalbagh west gate.

This arrangement will ensure that the traffic re-alignmments will happen only around MNK park, leaving the traffic movements on other adjoining areas and intersections intact. Also, not more than three-four trees will be lost at Tagore Square. That should be satisfactory for the ‘green’ brigade.

Next, we need to come back to the impact of these changes on pedestrian movements. I do not see much impact to the pedestrian movements, but for on the tagore circle. If need be, we can install the magic box subway to provide safe movement of pedestrians. I would expect to see one subway to cross the BP wadia Road, one to cross the KR road (opposite Police station) and one near the entrance to MNK park, to connect MNK park with Gunasheela Hospital.

 

 

 

 

-Srivatsava V

http://srivatsava-vajapeyam.blogspot.com/

-Srivatsava V

Naveen's picture

Tagore Circle Underpass - Alternative/s

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Arun /Srivatsava /Vasanth,

You've made good assessments of the traffic flow pattern as it exists in the area. I consulted some map/s after Arun floated out this blog. The points I noted were as follows (see diagram below) :

 

1) The East-West length of KR park is only about 475 mtrs. & the North-South width is about 400 mtrs -- not much for motor vehicles to traverse, should some roads be converted to one-ways.

2) Apart from Krishna Rajendra Rd, all roads around KR park are of adequate width to have bi-directional traffic flows.

3) Other roads in the surroundings are also of adequate width, & can take bi-directional flows easily.

4) Together, KR Rd & Kanakapura Rd bring in a lot of City Market & Corporation /Majestic bound traffic from Banashankari /Kathriguppe areas, that have to go past Tagore circle, as taking the RV Rd route would be circuitous for them. Likewise, there is a lot of return traffic.

5) There is an under-utilized bi-directional fly-over at National college circle, which could be used to advantage to divert much of the traffic bound from east to west & vice-versa without passing through Tagore circle junction.

6) When the Metro comes up, there will be several stations within close proximity - at National college circle, Lalbagh west gate, as also at South end.

7) An underpass at Tagore Circle has been recommended by the CTTP report & BBMP wants to push this through, right now.

 

Well, given these facts ---

aa) Traffic flows might change for the better once the Metro becomes operational, & one fails to understand what the need is to hurry with building an underpass.

bb) I am unfamiliar with the latest in the area, but there certainly are much easier solutions, possibly one is as marked  - to convert KR Rd to one way, for movement from South to North & Vasai temple road for movement in the opposite direction, whilst retaining all others for both ways.

Keeping all roads open for bi-directional traffic will result in many conflict points & can only be resolved by grade separation ie. underpass or flyover construction.

Can someone take this up further & advise the current position - which roads are already one-ways ? We could perhaps improve further & pass it to BBMP & Traffic Police for review.

silkboard's picture

Will visit the area this weekend

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To think of alternatives. Here is my line of thinking

  • Additional traffic signals
  • Synchronizing existing traffic signals
  • Waiting lanes for right turns at two possible locations
  • And, if possible, get away with one or two magic boxes

More after I visit the area once. Anyone wants to team up on this field visit, I am at 98453-01075

asj's picture

Great work

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Fantastic work, It seems more and more that a solution not requiring any underpass is possible (and likely to work better in the long run). Good luck, ASJ
Arun's picture

Some thougths

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Having seen the traffic movement here for more than 5 years, increase in traffic on BPWadia Rd (BPW) increased during the construction of the flyover.  Some thoughts -

  • BPW did not carry this kind of traffic earlier; originally this traffic flowed on VV Road and was diverted to BPW due to construction of flyover at Ntl Colg.
  • After completion of flyover traffic never returned back to VV Road due to two intersections – Kanakapura Road (KNKR) and North Road (NR) on VV Road and finally at Ashrama
  • No attempts were made to ease traffic flow on VVR despite the flyover, which served the purpose of BBMP and few individuals to pitch in for an underpass
  • Traffic continues to grow on BPW and GB Mn Road as a result of this
My suggestions are aimed at bringing down traffic on Diagonal Road (DR) leading to BPW–
  • Magic boxes at KNKR and NR Jns,  OR
  • Put a median on VV Road with no crossing over right from West Gt. Vehicles on KNKR can go upto Ntl Colg and take a right U turn to and enter KNKR.
  • Median from Ramakrishna Ashrama Circle (RKC) upto the flyover. Vehicles wanting to cross over will NR will take right U turn under the flyover near Ntl Colg
  • Magic box under Ntl Colg flyover to ensure free movement towards KR Mkt
(in both cases, vehicles will travel an extra 400mts)
  • Another important underpass (Magic box) could be at West Gate where it curves from Krumbigal Road to VV Road .
  • This will ensure free movement towards Ntl Colg and South End, thus freeing Krumbigal forever.
  • Will not hinder the Metro.
  • Vehicles, once they cross over Lalbagh main gate can freely move upto RK Ashrama in less than 4 mins at 40 kmph; currently takes about 20-30 mins during peak hrs.
  • Also waiting right turns at few locations
Naveen, as suggested by you, a left turn at the flyover will be difficult as the lane next to the flyover is just about 10-12 ft.
Naveen's picture

Arun - Yr Ideas

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Hi Arun,

I understood all that you said, except 'North Rd'. Is this the road parallel to Vani Vilas road, on the northern side, connecting RV Rd with KR Rd ? This has been marked on map/s as 'National High School Rd'.

Please clarify, thanks.

mrmaulik's picture

 please read

mrmaulik's picture

 good work  please refere

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 good work 

please refere this link

http://praja.in/discuss/forums/2009/06/flyovers-are-not-solutions
 

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