Commuter Rail mentioned in the Karnataka State Budget by CM

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Commuter RailPublic Transport

55.  The Comprehensive Traffic and Transportation Plan for Bangalore has identified the need to take up commuter rail system within the city. The Government has sought permission of the Ministry of Railways for undertaking commuter rail service from Bangalore to Devanahalli, Anekal, Malur, Ramnagara, Nelamangala and beyond, so that persons living on the outskirts of Bangalore would be able to access the Central Business District of Bangalore within a short time. The State would provide its contribution.

http://www.kar.nic.in/finance/bud2011/bsp2011.htm

Its good to see CM of Karnataka  clearly mentioning the Commuter Rail in the State Budget. Hope MoS K H Muniyyappa  makes his effort for the same.

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Comments

MPs should ensure their part at Center

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All the 7 MPs from Bangalore should ensure that Commuter Rail is sanctioned for Bangalore.

Already MR Janardhan Reddy has written letter to all MP's to  put pressure on Center to get the project approved by Indian Railways.   Looking for positive development.

Atleast its in the master plan now

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 Was listening to him it didnt show under the moolabhoota soukarya section, it showed up under the Bengaluru section of his speech. Of course he hurried thru the entire speech but interesting no allocation made. Not even a token allocation to seed an SPV and its functioning.

Mamata says it too..

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"Propose development of integrated suburban railway network in big metros like Mumbai, Kolkata, Chennai, says Mamata Banerjee. 

Open ended, no committment

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Below is the only committment she has made.

Similar corporations can be considered for congested suburban systems in other states

Nothing for Bangalore. Its a shame that Ahmedabad gets a suburban network being a BJP govt but the same party cant get Commuter Rail for Bengaluru included. What a shame. Truly impotent leadership in Karnataka I must say.

 81. Madam, India is witnessing rapid urbanization putting great pressure on our cities and towns. Transport infrastructure will be a key to their growth and sustenance. I propose the development of integrated suburban railway networks in large cities like Mumbai, bringing together suburban railway, metro railway and other rail infrastructure under a single integrated system which will provide faster, efficient, affordable and comfortable transportation to the citizens. To begin with, I plan to introduce this  concept in those cities where suburban system exists, such as Hyderabad, Ahmedabad, Kolkata,  and Chennai. We propose to strengthen the suburban system of Hyderabad-Secundeabad by implementing six projects under MMTS Phase II.

82 Madam, Mumbai Rail Vikas Corporation (MRVC) has helped bring enormous improvements in Mumbai’s suburban system. I now wish to bring about a similar transformation to the suburban transport system of the other megalopolis of the country, Kolkata. For a 100 km and more around Kolkata, the lives of the people are inexorably linked with activities, trade and industry of the city. There is a great need to upgrade the entire suburban system of Kolkata with better, faster and more number of services including 15-car trains.   

83. I am aware that such improvements  need substantial  finances. Railways have limited resources. Therefore,  I propose to set up Kolkata Rail Vikas Corporation (KRVC) on the lines of MRVC, which will raise funds through banks and other financial institutions, Municipal Corporation and other stakeholders. I believe, this single measure will kick start Kolkata’s return to its days of glory.  Similar corporations can be considered for congested suburban systems in other states

Entire text here

Railway has not considered Bangalore Commuter Rail

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Indian railway and Mamata have sanctioned and going for further improvements at Mumbai,  Hyderabad, Ahmedabad, Kolkata,  and Chennai  They have clearly kept away from Bangalore Commuter Rail demand.  

Similar corporations can be considered for congested suburban systems in other states.  When such demand exists for Bangalore over last 28 yrs and clearly  GoK has demanded with cost sharing,  why  Bangalore is getting such treatment. ???

 

All blame goes to Yeddy and MPs from Bangalore

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Yeddy has no time to think about all these, even in times of calamities, he get busy in safeguarding his power and seat, and that's all he can do.

All the 7 MPs of the Bangalore area, I am not sure why are they not demanding at their loudest vouce, as this is the only cost effective solution, may be because namma railu is not going to get them good black money as compared to HSRL or other road projects.

 

Deepak

Criminal violation?

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I know for a fact that IDD has written to GM of SWR, this communication we have. We will soon find out if CM has written to MOR & the Railway Board. Regardless, I would be interested if the same run around was followed for the Kolkata SPV. I would be really curious how many communications went from WB state Govt to the Railway ministry and the board & at what level and for how long now asking for commuter rail facilities for Kolkata? How much is the state govt participation & stake in this SPV for Kolkata?

I would not be surprised if in case of WB this SPV setup was a initiated & driven by the lady herself. In which case only Karnataka is being given the run around citing undefined and undocumented procedures like only if the CM writes to the railway board we will take up the project etc. We will need to demand that since the commuter rail initiative was being demanded for the past 24 years Bengaluru should have priority over Kolkata. 

Projects cannot be prioritized like this and there has to be legal option to bring Railways to book for misusing public funds like this. It is probably a criminal offense to make such unilateral out of turn project allocations not much different from 2G allocations.

Maybe an RTI on the structure of Kolkata SPV followed by a PIL on this will be appropriate

Having said that I am fully cognizant that this required quite an amount of lobbying and our State MP's & Govt have clearly failed on this by being undecided & delayed in starting their campaign at Rail Bhavan. We have been at this since last June. They have clearly been ineffective in delivering the goods for the people of BMR region. Will they scramble & set this right? Not unless all of us demand answers for this failure.

reading btwn lines..

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 Mamata ji says:

 I am confident that high speed rail corridor will become a
catalyst for India’s economic growth, a stimulus for the development of satellite
towns and reduction of migration to metropolises. Therefore, I propose to set up
a National High Speed Rail Authority for planning, standard setting,
implementing and monitoring these projects.

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/business/text-mamata-banerjees-rail-budget-2010-020

Does this anyway smell of commuter rail? BSY thinks so..maybe its these un-specified paras which may become the catalyst!

No beating around the bush

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 It shouldnt smell, after 20+ years, It should just say. KRVC is clearly spelt out. Why isnt a BRVC spelt out? When all formal letters that need to be written have been written whats preventing a line saying

I am aware that such improvements  need substantial  finances. Railways have limited resources. Therefore,  I propose to set up Bengaluru Rail Vikas Corporation (BRVC) on the lines of MRVC, which will raise funds through banks and other financial institutions, Municipal Corporation and other stakeholders.

 There isnt even an acknowledgement saying IR/SWR has recieved written communications from GoK and we are in discussions on the same for a commuter rail for Bengaluru. When she can mention investment for 6 other cities unsolicited why not mention a solicited one? Its useless having a MoS from state, really.

Bangalore citizens should come out strongly for Commuter Rail

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Sanjeev V Dyamannavar of Praja, a voluntary organisations engaged in civic activities, has stated that there is no major projects or Superfast trains sanctioned.  When there was huge demand from the State Government to take up the Commuter Rail for Bangalore and its suburbs on 50:50 cost sharing basis,  the Railway Minister has not considered the proposal and Bangalore once again neglected on this.
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/141118/yeddyurappa-welcomes-railway-budget-proposals.html

Proposed DEMU for Bangalore  in the Budget :

Bangalore Cant-Bangarpet
Dharmapuri-Bangalore
Marikuppam-Bangarpet
Kolar-Bangalore
This peace meal approach will not help the Bangalore and will increase the operating in-efficiency in Bangalore SWR division

Also Point No -38 of Pink book of Railway Budget sanction for Electrification : Yelahanka to Dharmavaram ( 306 Kms ) at the cost of Rs 229 crore sanctioned.

 http://www.indianrailways.gov.in/railwayboard/uploads/directorate/finance_budget/RailBudget_11-12/RE.pdf

With all these infrastructure getting in place,  time is ripe to start Commuter Rail with EMU coaches for Bangalore & its suburbs.

 

City Misses Date with Suburban Train, Balme game on

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When his attention was drawn to suburban trains for the state, Muniyappa said railways will have to look into the budget documents for this. However, he clarified that the demand of circular trains in Bangalore and surrounding areas is genuine and it is the need of the hour. But this could become a reality only next year as till date, no request has come from the state government.
"We are yet to receive a proposal (from the state government) and, most importantly, land is needed for the project which the government is yet to part with," he said.

http://epaper.dnaindia.com/dnabangalore/epapermain.aspx?queryed=07&username=&useremailid=&parenteditioncode=9&eddate=2%2f26%2f2011

This is on 2nd page of DNA.  So balme game is going on. What will MoS Mr Muniyyappa has to say on the letter written by Mr Janardhan Reddy to all MP's of Karnataka on Commuter Rail for Bangalore.  That means either he is not capable of getting this project ahead of Kolkotta or Congress Vs BJP

 

 

 We are yet to receive a

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 We are yet to receive a proposal (from the state government)

I would be very curious to see what proposal was recieved from WB state Govt for KRVC, and how much cajoling & begging it took for WB govt to get that going. GoK also needs to share blame for doing lip service here, its heart is not in the right place. Its campaigns in Delhi has been half hearted and useless.

Our elected representatives and politicians please think and act

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Commuter Rail is a cheaper and efficient solution for Bengaluru's transport problems. It is not only benificial for Bengalureans but also for the others in the state. By implemnting this the funds towards high cost Roadways development in Bengaluru (bridge and underpass construction, road widenning etc) can be saved and in turn can be used for development of other areas of the state. This implementation will cut down private traffic to a large extent also solving pollution problem to greater extent. WHY NOT OUR ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES AND POLITICIANS UNDERSTAND THIS? IF OUR SURROUNDINGS ARE FINE WE ARE FINE. BENGALURU'S ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES AND POLITICIANS PLEASE KNOW THAT AT PRESENT NOT ONLY YOUR PEOPLE BUT ALSO YOU ARE AFFECTED BY THIS TRAFFIC PROBLEMS AND POLLUTION. PLEASE THINK HUMAN AND ACT.

cris-cross the trains

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Muniyappa introduced passenger trains from kolar and bangarpet to bangalore which is move in right direction. But if these trains extended to other side of city, say either to tumkur or ramanagar then these trains will become more useful. Say bangarpet people can directly go to kengeri instead of catching another train from contonment where the newly alloted train terminates. And such criss crossing helps city people to go from one side of city to another.

Other train extentions needed would be hosur-devanagalli local train upto chikkaballapur, devanahalli-yesvantpur train should be extended to chikkaballapur on one side and kengeri/ramangar on other side. Such cris-crossing extentions will help improve ridership and people need not change train and waste time waiting for another train. People will use such trains as at least for one way to work if time doesnt suit them perfectly.http://expressbuzz.com/cities/bangalore/suburban-trains-flagged-off;-now-rajdhani-daily/163275.html

I dont think these single

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I dont think these single trains help anybody. All these trains can be run under a single unbrella service of commuter rail. It should have automatic doors, platform level floors, seperate timetable, integrated ticketing with both KSRTC & BMTC buses, variety of passes & synchronized last mile connectivity. Else it will not get any response. When a commuter train arrives at a station at time X there should be a last mile connectivity which leaves at X+5 mins. This is not hard to do if it is done under a nodal agency with other stakeholders.

Look at YD1 it runs at a time when nobody travels anywhere let alone to the airport. Business travellers take flights early morning & late evening. International travel is also late evening. If you run a train which reaches Devanahalli at 11:30 with no way of reaching the airport from there who will take it? Nobody even knows it exists.

Send a proposal to Centre on circular rail for Bangalore'

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In reply to a query by former Minister H.M. Revanna on circular rail for Bangalore, Mr. Muniyappa said it would be possible if rail link is established to connect Hoskote, Anekal, Bidadi, Magadi, Nelamangala, and Doddaballapur. Mr. Muniyappa said that Chief Minister Yeddyurappa had been asked to send a proposal in this regard so that the issue could be taken up at the highest level. A separate double track was required for the purpose, he said

http://www.hindu.com/2011/02/27/stories/2011022753000700.htm

Finally MLA is asking to Minister.  I think MoS is mis-leading  saying cirular rail proposal not sent,  fact may be commuter rail proposal will be pending with railway board.  So he is keeping silence on the commuter rail and trying to raise cirular rail.

Does he know that Kolar his own constituency and Chikballpur ( congress ) will get benifited by Commuter rail, why his he blaming others.

 

extend existing passenger trains across city

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Praja Call to Action report Section 5.5 page 24 mentions total of 28 passenger trains. If these trains extended beyond bangalore (city or ypr) on the other opposite direction, then the usefulness will increase manifold. People will use train only if it is long enough and saves good enough time. Otherwise they wont change bus to train and then again to bus if it saves very less time. This is the reason because YD-1 is used less than YH-1.

Say a train from kolar side can be extended to Ramanagar, train from hosur side extended to Tumkur. So people will use kolar passenger from whitefield to kengeri as single train saves lot of time. This will even free up City and YPR stations which are already saturated as trains wont terminate there. These are small extentions so need not be mentioned in railway budget itself. If ridership is more we can demand more services.

 If these trains extended

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 If these trains extended beyond bangalore (city or ypr) on the other opposite direction, then the usefulness will increase manifold.

You are right,  also go thru the routes indicated in the same report. You will notice that with just 1 change over a person can go from any place to any other place along the routes.

extentions easy

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I have seen the map in the report, that is good if full fledged commuter rail launched right from start. But this will not be possible untill next budget. We can get good allocation in railway budget only next to next year when we will have elections. For bangalore like city which has traffic in all directions unlike north-south trains in mumbai, it is better to cris-cross the trains through the city.

But extentions are easy if a train has some spare time. Doesnt need budget approval if no new train rakes required. I think YD-1 has enough spare time, not sure about YH1 train. Or even many passenger trains will definitely have some spare time when such trains can be extended in other direction across the city. Kolar and Hosur trains can be extended to bidadi/ramangar and nelamangala/tumkur depending on available time. Tumkur MP can also help or even Muniyappa may help for extention of kolar/bangarpet/marikuppam passenger train extention. If we prove the concept then we can demand more services.

Electrification of another route mentioned.

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Bangalore-Chennasandra loop via Yeshwantpur & Yelahanka-Baiyyappanhalli loop via Hebbal (46 km)

www.indianrailways.gov.in/railwayboard/uploads/directorate/finance_budget/RailBudget_11-12/RE.pdf

 

We do not know who is fooling us but at the end we are loosing out to other cities.

Chennai/Mumbai/Hyd/Kolkota have very good Sub Urban railway & still got funds for expansion.

Didi/Muniyapp are you listening?

 

Between there are 2 trains which go to Devanahalli everyday as of now.

 

No.    Name    Type    From    Dep    To    Arr    Travel Time    Dep Days
56525    Bangalore Chikkaball...    Pass    YPR    18:10    DHL    18:52    0h 42m   
06595    Yesvantapur Devanaha...    Pass    YPR*    10:40    DHL*    11:45    1h 5m

@rackstar - It is the system that we need!

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rackstar,

But extentions are easy if a train has some spare time. Doesn't need budget approval if no new train rakes required. I think YD-1 has enough spare time, not sure about YH1 train.

I suggest you spend some time going through all the discussions to understand the dynamics of commuter/sub-urban rail service. It is not merely a function of extending trains or adding 1 or 2 trains. This is precisely what railways has been doing and is planned in this budget.

The suggestion you are making will certainly give some relief in short term again who will decide and approve for even these extensions? Railways? GOK.?

The commuter/sub-urban rail service needs additional stations, integration with other PT systems, single ticketing system, modern signaling system and more ever an operational authority who would look after the day-to-day operations.

The effort should be to make Commuter/Sub-Urban rail service a service for future also, not just for today.

Anything less than these required components would be prescription for failure. It is like BMTC introducing new service "Ho-HO" without any planning and infrastructure in place. Result was termination of the service itself.

The fight for Namma Railu doesn't stop with Mamta's budget. This is just the beginning. Hopeful of more intensity in the efforts for Namma Railu in coming weeks.

@rackstar

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 that is good if full fledged commuter rail launched right from start. 

Full fledged commuter rail will need to be launched right from the start, there is no other way to do this, you will be wasting time in demanding extensions, criss-cross etc. etc. I have intracted with IR/SWR & know anything less than full fledged commuter rail is not worth pursuing with them. However I encourage you to go & sit with SWR with your suggestions it will benefit people of the city if you are successful. You still dont realize all that is possible under the SPV & commuter rail umbrella a lot more easily.

Thanks

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Thanks for the encouraging words. I took clue from metro lines which criss-cross the city, and gurgaon-qutub minar delhi metro hardly had any takers until it got connected to main line. I have to do lot of homework before taking up with authorities and politicians.

Likely that trains from Bangarpet are electric ones which can go only towards Ramangar where electrification is being done now. Hosur-Yeswantpur train can be extended to Tumkur and Tumkur MP will support it. Who can approve these extentions is only Muniyappa who has an office in Bangalore.

@naveen_blr, The electrification link you gave also mentions Yelahanka-Gooty electrification half the amount allocation this year, so we will have Bangalore-Doddaballapur electrification for the commuter rail!

homework

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This is map of railway stations around bangalore exact location. Blue is electrified or soon to be electrified sections. I have marked D, C, B to Ramanagara station as passenger trains from directions Doddaballpur, Chikkaballapur and Bangarpet can be extended till there. Similarly passenger trains from Hubli/Tumkur can be extended to either Bangarpet or Hosur. Trains from Mysore side can be extended to Doddaballapur, or Chikkaballapur or Bangarpet.

There is already a train from Chikkaballpur towards Hosur. A guy who wants to go to Electronic city from Chikkaballapur would anyday choose an across the city train over bus which will take much longer time. Such across the city trains are more useful than local trains that terminate at an inside city limits.

rackstar, what's your point?

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rackstar,

what's your point?

extending the existing passenger trains

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There are 28 passenger trains terminating at bangalore city limits, and more from longer distance. If they are extended across the city to nearest satellite town in opposite direction, bangalore will have decent commuter rail system right away. Like passenger trains from Hubli/Tumkur side can be extended to either Hosur or Bangarpet (marked as H, B in map) with stops in all city stations on the way.

Only trains that have spare time can be extended so we need not wait till next budget. This will increase ridership compared to terminating trains, otherwise existing passenger trains are a problem for local trains. Bangalore needs diagonal services unlike north-south trains of mumbai, you can see more explanation in my previous comments above.

Then why not CRS?

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Rackstar,

Isn't proposed CRS promises to do exactly this? Instead of demanding the full fledge CRS system, why settle for some half baked possibilities? Commuter rail service is nothing new to the world? Mumbai, Hyderabad, Ahmedabad, Chennai has it. Kolkata will get one. Then why get satisfied with long distance trains for Bengaluru.

Full CRS will take long time

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Full CRS will take long time, that is in years. New coaches will be needed and coaches from railway coach factory already supplies much less than demand from all over the country. And when you need new coaches it has to come through railway budget only. But small extentions of existing trains can be added during railway timetable updates after required approval.

These across the city extentions wont need new coaches, as only trains with spare time are extended. This doesnt need budget approval provided these use tracks and stations that are free to accomodate extra traffic. This will increase usage of existing passenger trains for shorter across city travel as people need not change train in between wasting waiting time. Tumkur people need not change train in yesvantpur to go to anekal or Marikuppam people can directly go to Kengeri. If this picks up enough patronage we will have more support to claim for full CRS, and these extentions will no way hamper full CRS campaign instead complement and strenghten it very well.

Except one EMU coach, all r having Diesel loco, its not possible

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Bangalore has only one EMU which is doing 5 trips between Bangalore city to Bangarpet.  This does not require Engine Turning arround.  If we have more EMU rakes in Bangalore division, then we can do  what Rackstar is saying makes sense.

All the passenger Trains are running with seperate Engine ( either Electric or Diesel ), then  if they extend to suburban stations, then with two tracks in many stations, changing of engine will be major bottel neck,  so this will seriously hamper the long dist. trains operations.

You can see the Commuter Rail report where we have suggested existing passenger Trains betwn Bangalore city to Bangarpet should be converted to Commuter Rail with EMU coaches  and balance passanger trains running between Housr, Chikballapur, Tumkur to be converted into Commuter Rail with EMU coaches over period after electrification done. This will  improve the running & turn arround efficiency of these trains,  which will help SWR to put more Commuter Rail with EMU coaches.

Other problem are these passenger trains are arriving or leaving during peak time,  so it will be difficult for SWR to extend to other side.  Also even if SWR manges to extend, then they need to create pit lines at other stations to maintain the rakes which does not exist currently.

Also stations at dense locations or where it makes sense  does not  exists like : Benigenahalli,  BIAL trumphet,   HMT / Jalhalli  on tumkur line,  Sunder Nagar near Mathikeri, Vijayanagar & many places.  Other issues is Foot over bridges, Vechile parking,  Drinking water facility, BMTC buses are not playing to most  of the railway stations. 

What I can see is this single EMU coach running  5 trips between Bangarpet to Bangalore city  can be extended upto Kengeri / Ramanagaram with one more EMU coach needed  /  deployed ( if they manage to get with help of MoS K H Muniyyappa ).

Hence with so many difficulties & constraints without EMU coaches,  its makes greater sense to have full fledge CRS and  include the current  28  passenger trains under this Umbrella,  provde EMU coaches where ever Electric lines have been commissioned.  Then CRS can go full fledge with infrastructure created over the period like 3-5 yrs down the line.

  

 

 

deisel locos

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I admit i dont have much knowledge about railways, thanks for the reply Sanjeev. But i still think we can extend existing diesel passenger trains to satellite towns across the city. Increasing the frequency of these trains is not in the agenda, only the extention. We already have a diesel loco in Chikkaballapur to Hosur route. And existing YH1 diesel loco can be extended to Tumkur instead of terminating at Yesvantpur.