Skip to Content

Stratified BMTC service & Making Losses in addition to deficient service (Contd...)

You must include at least one positive keyword with 3 characters or more.
up
128 users have liked.
Bus

Quote:  Source: Deccan Chronicle 27/7/09 BMTC Passes off concessions to Volvo users

'BMTC officials are promoting the loss making Volvo buses at the cost of ordinary buses.  It is disgusting.  The Government should come out with a clear policy on the issue' - Member, BMTC Commuters Forum

'As the Corporation is finding it tough to increase the occupancy rate of Volvo buses, we have come out with this new fare chart.  We are offering two and three month validity bus passes exclusively for Volvo commuters at competitive prices to encourage them to use these buses'     - Traffic Consultant - BMTC

Reduced Volvo gold passes rates with huge reductions (14 to 25%)

- Monthly Rs.1500 (old Rs.1750) 

- 2 months validity: Rs.2800/-

- 3 months validity Rs.3900/-

- TWO WEEKS AGO BMTC had hiked bus fares and pass rates for ordinary buses citing a rise in the prices of diesel.

- Paradoxical  - 'ondu kannige benne mathondu kannige sunna' - Vaare Wah..

- BMTC Even now it is not late - Cancel pending orders - do not neglect your Annadaata - the ordinary commuter.

- Vasanthkumar Mysoremath

Comments

balajiolety's picture

hi

up
79 users have liked.

Hi ,

I second your opinion Mr Vasanth. I have been thinking on the same lines. We have to explore how is it lucrative for BMTC to run VOLVOS.....may be its the ordering process of these so called hi tech ones are money making machines for 'OUR' babus.

 

 

pathykv's picture

BMTC Commuter Forum

up
91 users have liked.

The Deccan Chronicle report quotes Mr. Sharat Gowda of BMTC Commuters Forum.

Does anyone know this Forum or Mr. Sharat Gowda?

My attempts thro Deccan Chronocle reporter and BMTC are of no avail.

Even Google search does not help.

Pathy

abidpqa's picture

Fare hike

up
88 users have liked.

What I understand from the press report www.deccanherald.com/content/12445/bmtc-effects-modest-increase.html. hike is only above Rs. 10. In most, Rs. 7 stages they have not increased the fare, but in one route, Kalyan Nagar-KR Puram RS, I had to pay Rs. 9 instead of the Rs. 7 that I had paid before the fare hike.

I had these doubts from the time I have started using BMTC. I thought I put these here in the time of fare hike when we feel at least for sometime the hike is too much. Is there only Rs. 3, 5, and 7 tickets. Are there no Rs. 4 and 6  tickets? How does some one know exact fare to a destination and/or the stages?

sanjayv's picture

Anybody with expertise to do a financial analysis for buses

up
99 users have liked.

 I am curious - If we assume a bus costs X lakhs.  Is there anyone in Praja with the expertise who would care to do a financial analysis of a bus (not necessarily Volvo).   Assuming depreciation, insurance, O&M costs, overheads etc., what would be the revenue to be made by a bus per day, per week or per month in order to break even.

It would be nice to have some numbers just so that we get a better feel for things.  At least, I would personally benefit.

Thanks!

 

s_yajaman's picture

financial analysis

up
85 users have liked.

I made an attempt here

http://bangalore.praja.in/blog/vasanthkumar-mysoremath/2009/04/02/stratified-bmtc-service-making-profits-with-defic#comment-13375

Srivathsa

Drive safe.  It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

'Tuglak' BMTC-Students Smart Card Scrapped-back to dumb cards

up
100 users have liked.

source: B'lore Mirror 9-8-09 pg.9 Gist:

/The BMTC procured 1000 ETMs (Electronic Ticketing Machines) from a company last year, but found its software could not help read the Smart Cards.  A total of 4000 ETMs were required to cover all our operations"./

"there was a lack of understanding  between the ETM supplier and the Corporation officials. The Project saw an abrupt end as the latter could not distribute ETMs to all conductors...../"

BMTC MD - "The issue of paper cards is only a temporary arrnagement. First we will make sure ETMs are distributed to conductors. Shortly we will invite tenders for procuring ETMs".

Question: (a) Will the ETMs to be tendered afresh will have different compatible software and (b) what will happen to incompatible 1000 ETMs already procured?  will the new ETMs to be procured read both Smart Card as well as Paper card passes?  

Student community is is very upset. Employed / part time student community used  to have 'travel as you like' passes at Rs.1070/- now it has been enhanced to Rs.1100/- for paper cards with 'restricted route'.

- Vasanth Mysoremath

kbsyed61's picture

VKM, You should file a RTI!

up
99 users have liked.

VKM Sir,

Thanks for sharing this information. I think it is fit case to file the RTI and ask BMTC about 1000 ETMs whose SW is not compatible to read the smart card. Let me know if you need help with filing the RTI.

Syed

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Continuing stratified service - extended to MYSORE

up
86 users have liked.

@Syed saab,

Latest information, in addition to infructuous expenditure on procuring ETMs above, how JNNURM funds are being misused on loss making  Volvos (cost Rs.67 lakhs - does this keep changing?) and FESLF (Front Engine Semi Low Floor- Cost Rs.22 lakhs) in the name of transport infrastructure is worth having an indepth study. A total of 18 buses have arrived in Mysore City today - source: Star of Mysore of today (14-8-09).  These are in addition to existing 6 Volvos and 30 FESLF buses already running almost empty. 

In Mysore city even the most ordinary blue bus is an apology for an efficient transport system in a Tier II city.

- Isn't it time for an RTI and PIL to stop procurement and introduction of such stratified system for continuied loss making Volvos and FESLFs at the cost of ordinary buses? 

- Vasanth Mysoremath

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Mercedes Benz buses are also not popular.

up
99 users have liked.

According to the results of the Trial runs by KSRTC of Mercedes Benz Buses between Mysore and Chickmagalur, it is learnt that they are not very comfortable and are running below average load - again hitting KSRTC below the belt.

- When will the KSRTC/BMTC learn to use JNNURM/public money for providing some relief to the aam aadmis?

- Vasanth Mysoremath 

Naveen's picture

Blame for What ?

up
93 users have liked.

When will the KSRTC /BMTC learn to use JNNURM /public money for providing some relief to the aam aadmis ?

VKM Sir :

1) Are you suggesting that KSRTC & BMTC should never test newer /different makes & models of buses available in the market to check suitability for use in their fleet ?

2) What is your description of relief to aam aadmi ?

3) I think KSRTC /BMTC are experimenting to make available different types of buses to provide choice of services to all including the aam aadmi, provided the users pay for it.

We cannot continue to be a nation with subsidies in perpetuity.

 
Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Since 62 years we are a nation awash with subsidies

up
84 users have liked.

Naveen Sir,

Yes Sir, your questions are good but have a look at the following thread and find answers to all your questions:

http://bangalore.praja.in/blog/vasanthkumar-mysoremath/2009/04/02/stratified-bmtc-service-making-profits-with-defic#comment-13375 

However, my short answers to your questions:

Qn. (1)  No doubt KSRTC/BMTC must embark  on improving the services to the commuters but not on a selective basis for catering to minority users and at the cost of majority users.  Rs.3.48 crores loss in running of Volvos for the third year in succession???  You be the judge.

(2) Have a look at the above thread.

(3) India is a nation of subsidies and even today, eg., your petrol/fuel requirements are subsidised.  You decide whether it is perpetual or otherwise. Is the fuel pricing commensurate with international crude oil price?  No and kerosene supply is subsidised to the maximum extent because it is the majority users' aam aadmi's lifeline.

Translated Quote from Basava's Vachana:   When one is hungry, he will worry only about how to get something to fill his stomach;  when his stomach is filled, he will think of having some good clothes, when he gets some fancy cloths, he will think of a woman,  when he gets a woman.....  let me stop at this.

KSRTC/BTS were initially set up for what purpose?  To provide Volvos, Big10s, HoHos, Mercs, Macropolos?

I am an aam aadmi, I want a clean and comfortable bus that could take me to my work place and bring me back to my abode without my getting nudged, pushed, trampled,  in the melee, pickpocketed  and dusty musty interiorors and exteriors and exteriors with helpless womenfolk getting pinched, pawd.  Pl. if you are a regular blue bus user, you will know the travails.

- Vasanth Mysoremath

-  

idontspam's picture

 By your argument there is

up
91 users have liked.

 By your argument there is waiting lists in 2nd class. Should we abolish 1st AC in trains? 

skumaras's picture

Claims of petrol subsidy unsubstantiated

up
96 users have liked.

 VKM Sir,

I don’t know how you can make the claim that Petrol is subsidized in India.

According to this article from the economic times dated 13 July 2009, the Minister of State for Petroleum and Natural Gas, Jitin Prasada has said that almost half of the retail price of petrol comprises taxes and duties.

economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/Economy/Indicators/Taxes-duties-comprise-50-of-petrol-price-in-Delhi-Minister/articleshow/4772379.cms

 


Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Pl. off tangent?

up
91 users have liked.

Let us stick to KSRTC/BMTC and its failure to provide reasonable, comfortable road travel infrastructure to the aam aadmi (albeit II class - waiting list)  - XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.

- Vasanth Mysoremath

 

 

skumaras's picture

Assumed loses to KSRTC due to the Mercedes Benz bus

up
85 users have liked.

Please see this article in the Deccan Herald. The Mercedes Benz was provided on a trial basis without any cost to KSRTC.  www.deccanherald.com/content/9653/ksrtcs-merc-mercy-buzz-off.html. This fact was also reported in a number of other newspapers.

If the buses are not comfortable KSRTC probably may choose not to induct them in the fleet and stick to Volvos for their premium services.

By the way many private operators are running Volvo services quite profitably on interstate routes and I don't see why it should be any different for KSRTC since they have very similar fare structures.  And I haven't seen any reports to the contrary.


idontspam's picture

Off tangent

up
93 users have liked.

 I can also refer to my waiting list number in Chandrayaana.

No need to bring sun and moon for comparision. Let us come down to earth and stick to public transportation like buses and trains.

skumaras's picture

JNNURM bus specifications

up
82 users have liked.

 VKM>>>> When will the KSRTC/BMTC learn to use JNNURM/public money for providing some relief to the aam aadmis?

I want to point out that JNNURM has some strict guidelines on the types of buses that can be procured. It seems that the state RTCs need to buy low floor and semi low floor buses and the old Parisara Vahinis won’t qualify. There is a lot of information available in the JNNURM website.  jnnurm.nic.in/nurmudweb/FOB/Funding_of_Buses.htm

I don’t want to reproduce the material from that website but it clearly indicates that "at least 20 % of the buses procured under JnNURM for all million plus cities should be low floor buses".

Here is a link to the Urban bus specifications from the same site. urbanindia.nic.in/moud/programme/ut/urbanbus_spec.pdf


Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

We are not talking about bus specifications pl.

up
87 users have liked.

Gentlemen,

Yes we know the specifications - low floor - 400 mm floor height, semi-low floor -650/750 mm for saloon floors, stanchions and sturdy standee grab hanging straps, pneumatically operated doors, full length emergency doors with toughened glass etc., etc., and standard buses - 900+ mm floor height and also other conditions like LED boards etc. . 

Let me also appreciate what KSRTC has done - Instead of placing orders for ready made buses they have prudently placed orders and procured chassis, built bus bodies at their own Workshops to Euro III specifications and have become a role model RTC.

- This has been appreciated by the Ministry of Urban Development and in their OM dated 12th Aug. 2009 they have advised select City Transport Corporations to follow suit, if they have capacities. 

- BUT

- What we are discussing here is a simple matter that KSRTC should have its priorities in place with concern for the majority commuters (3.28 lakh) in ordinary buses, provide them the basic well maintained speedy and comfortable commuting experience at economical rates because they are their daily bread providers.

- But KSRTC is using that bread, buttering it and also putting jam and handing over for breakfast for a select few (0.2 lakh) and

- they are not even giving peanuts to the ordinary commuters, even though they are ready to pay.

- We also discussed various issues like experts advise, continued loss making for 3 years by non-patronising by the class of customers to woo them to give up their private vehicles, pollutions, climate change.

- We have also discussed whether it would be prudent to keep in abeyance future orders and save the loss making and use the existing fleet to optimum level and economically without getting subsidised by the ordinary commuter.

- the above is the summary.

- Vasanth Mysoremath

 

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

some readers have provided replies to this ..how can you...?

up
92 users have liked.

@skumars

sachin, pune, says: exactly true,, and there you can see the irony of government,, you have petrol at approx 22 rs a litre after all cost,, add 28 rs duties and taxes and then give 6 rs subsidy and then all the time, cry about subsidy burden,, sachin
[13 Jul, 2009 1612hrs IST]

And another on livemint by Rakesh...

 

I was surprised to see a piece by Mr. Swaminathan S.A. Aiyar, noted columnist, in today's Times of India advocating that fuel prices should not be reduced. The piece is once again written on an assumption that the government has been subsidising fuel prices over the past year - which as I wrote on my blog on 11th Sept 08 is a myth.

My personal take as a green enthusiast is to keep the petrol prices high and also in these trying times there is no real choice but to keep prices high - so I do support high prices, but at the same time let us not be delusional about calling this a subsidy.

Since petrol prices have reduced dramatically since my last post on the subject, here are the revised estimates of the ‘subsidy' being handed out.

Present price of Petrol in the US ($/gallon): 2.8

Taxes in US (per gallon Federal+State): 0.31

Net price of petrol excluding taxes $/gallon: 2.49

Net price of petrol excl taxes in $/litre: 0.658

Net price of petrol excl taxes in Rs/litre: Rs. 32.2

(Note: 1 gallon [US, liquid] = 3.785 liters

1 USD = 49 Rupees)

e & oe

- Vasanth Mysoremath

idontspam's picture

Trying to wiggle out?

up
74 users have liked.

But KSRTC is using that bread, buttering it and also putting jam and handing over for breakfast for a select few (0.2 lakh)

Why do we have AC classes of different types in trains when gandhi class has waiting list? 

pathykv's picture

Subsidising higher class by lower class

up
85 users have liked.

Yes, it is equally immoral whether in Road transport or Railways.

The BMTC ordinary bus fares are 3 to 4 times more than in Tamilnadu as there is healthy competion between Govt. & private buses and private operators are not subsidised, but have to bear all costs including the 'hidden' costs.  The commuters have choice at most bus stations and take the best bus available by waiting for a few minutes more as the frequencies are very high.

K.V.Pathy

idontspam's picture

Immorality

up
88 users have liked.

Yes, it is equally immoral whether in Road transport or Railways.

Then you would obviously think it is immoral for some people to earn more than the others?

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Monopoly misused by KSRTC/BMTC - Rlys have Jan Shatabdi also.

up
94 users have liked.

@ IDS / Pathy Sirs,

Can we pl stick to Volvos and ord buses? Still, after hi-end Shatabdi, Rlys realised and Jan Shatabdi was introduced - it was a case of 'from top to bottom' but KSRTC's bottom itself is neglected and mezanine floors with marble are being constructed on ord bus foundation. 

- Per se, I am not against a little butter and  jam on my bread but who will provide it?

- It is KSRTC/BMTC who are raking the moolah from the ord commuter and using it to provide butter and jam by intro of Volvos/Mercs/ Macropolos/Big10s-11s/HoHos without giving me some good and fresh bread with its monopolistic strangle hold. 

-Again I have to reiterate that people who are born with the golden/silver spoons have all the right in the world to enjoy life and you can afford it.  But please have it  increased fare in Volvos but it would have been better if their procurements also had been financed by such users).  But what is being done is ord commuter is subsidising (whether through NuRM or not) purchase of Rs.80 lakhs bus that runs half empty (in Mysore it is still hopeless).

- Experiments, R&D, Research are necessities, no doubt but they are all funded by different sources.  If Government had hived off the luxury sector transport to a different company with FDI or PPP etc., it would have been altogehter a different cup of tea. 

- But misusing monopoly cannot be tolerated in a democratic system.

- Vasanth Mysoremath 

idontspam's picture

What neglect?

up
90 users have liked.

but KSRTC's bottom itself is neglected

How are you claiming they have been neglected? Just because you think so? Where are your numbers for proving neglect?

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Numbers? Volvo V/s Ord

up
92 users have liked.

@ IDS

Volvo that runs half empty but has a seating capacity of  35  costs Rs.80 lakhs but procured with the same money that has been milked from the aam aadmi also whereas  ord blue bus that transports more than 100 to 120  people costs Rs.15 lakhs and runs overloaded because it is their only source of public transport.

- ordinary bus commuters are actually contributing their might to keep the KSRTC/BMTC bottom line green whereas Red volvos in namma Bengaluru are trying to paint the bottom line with red.  What numbers?

- Vasanth Mysoremath

idontspam's picture

 What numbers? Statistics on

up
88 users have liked.

 What numbers?

Statistics on number of commuters neglected based on a ridership survey. Where are the numbers that justify your claim that bus commuters are suffering and are neglected because air conditioned, low floor buses are on the roads???

I would also like to see a driver survey on drivability of high powered, feature rich buses and productivity gains of driving highly manouverable buses. I would also like to see a survey of old and disabled people and how they have benefited from low floor buses.

Naveen's picture

Back to the Same Topic Again !

up
83 users have liked.

The same old discussion has resurfaced again. Some are questioning BMTC (& now KSRTC also) for providing differential services, whilst leaving out all other areas that have similar "stratification", as it is being referred to.

For starters, is it not true that we have such stratification just about anywhere that we see ? What about jobs ? Why have differential pay scales at all ? Why not pay everyone the same, irrespective of what they do ? What about housing ? Why have different types - HIG, MIG & LIG ? Why not have just one class of housing for all ?

By this sort of reasoning, perhaps it is being suggested by some here that we should have our own form of communism that almost the whole world has now abandonned.

I think one cannot singularly question BMTC (& KSRTC) in this manner. Chennai transport has now ordered 100 new volvos for city services, & other cities in TN (such as Coimbatore & Madurai) are also following suit. Should they be charging the same fares as on all other ordinary buses on these new air-conditioned buses since the "aam aadmis", or those that claim to speak for them see it as "stratification" ?

That Bangalore has too many vehicles on the streets is well known - because there are too many rich vehicle owners. Hence, the volvos came in here faster than other cities, breaking the age old belief that one class suits all for city transport. Initially, it was BMTC that was targeted, but now KSRTC is also being targeted without any basis or justification.

One can see KSRTC's Airavaata services to chennai & other places - these volvos are going full all the time - I have been to chennai & mangalore quite a few times in the recent past & have always found these buses going full.

What about private operators ? Why spare them ? Why should they run volvos at all ? Why not have only one type of ordinary buses even with private inter-city operators ? By the reasoning put up here, KSRTC should not touch any volvos & BMTC must not run any other types of buses other than the age-old, uncomfortable ones. Also, it is being suggested that no new type of services (such as Big-10s, etc) must be introduced at all since some imagine that the aam aadmis do not need them !

Many of the city's volvos are running full even at late hours (I have used quite a few in the recent past, around 9PM), whilst it is being repeatedly claimed that all are running empty. If some are indeed running empty, they may be stopped or services reduced as deemed fit - this is subject to experience with operations & there is always room for refinement.

A blanket assumption by a few that see such attempts by BMTC /KSRTC as unwelcome & seize the opportunity to criticize means nothing - there are many that welcome these efforts & are thankful that such comfortable services have been made available - I for one.

As regards cleanliness in ordinary buses, this had already been discussed before - the buses can only be as clean as we keep them. Do not expect BMTC or KSRTC to clean each bus every trip or every hour. They can only clean them once a day. So, the assumption by some that "aam aadmis" do not get clean buses are also incorrect. Aam aadmis or whoever are the group of users also need to contribute to maintaining buses clean, as much as BMTC or KSRTC.

pathykv's picture

Bua Economics

up
88 users have liked.

No one is objecting to more comfortable buses, if the riders pay for it. What is immoral is robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I ride regularly all types of buses daily . I know the plight of ordinary bus commuters. Only if BMTC officials are made to commute by their own ordinary buses they will realise the ground realities.

K.V.Pathy

Naveen's picture

5-Star Comforts at Budget-Hotel Rates ?

up
80 users have liked.

I know the plight of ordinary bus commuters. Only if BMTC officials are made to commute by their own ordinary buses they will realise the ground realities

In effect, what you are asking is for everyone to be provided 5-star comforts at budget prices. Unfortunately, this cannot be done in the same way that 5-star hotels cannot operate by charging budget-hotel rates.

Ticket prices on ordinary buses are much lesser than volvos, no doubt since procurement & operation cost for such buses is much cheaper. Everyone knows that these buses are not comfortable & use truck chassis, but transport has also to be provided for those that cannot afford better quality. All other bus-related infrastructure (viz. bus stops, roads, etc) are the same for all types of buses, isn't it ?

idontspam's picture

Your type of morality

up
90 users have liked.

  What is immoral is robbing Peter to pay Paul.

So lets go back to Soviet Russia and learn some lessons on how they have been a thumping success with enforcing your type of morality. Let us learn from our rich history of 63 years of abolishing poverty by not providing them an economy to earn and pay for the services. 

skumaras's picture

Volvo buses and subsidies

up
80 users have liked.

 

VKM Sir,

I don’t want to be an apologist for KSRTC or BMTC, but I thought I should defend some of the decisions they have made regarding the Mercedes Benz as well as the JNUURM orders particularly after seeing your post in this thread questioing their decisions. To quote from your post titled “CONTINUING STRATIFIED SERVICE - EXTENDED TO MYSORE”, … how JNNURM funds are being misused on loss making  Volvos (cost Rs.67 lakhs - does this keep changing?) and FESLF (Front Engine Semi Low Floor- Cost Rs.22 lakhs) in the name of transport infrastructure… Isn't it time for an RTI and PIL to stop procurement and introduction of such stratified system …

That’s why I had pointed out that JNNURM had some stipulations about the use of the funds, and KSRTC had no option but to buy the low floor buses. In any case you seem to have changed your mind judging by how you have appreciated the way KSRTC has gone about procuring the semi-low floor buses. Incidentally BMTC has also taken a very similar approach with the semi-low floor buses. And both KSRTC and BMTC have taken the same approach with respect to ordering the fully built buses in the case of low-floor buses viz the Volvos.

You seem to be anguished about KSRTC and BMTC providing what you call stratified services. As others have pointed out there is nothing unusual about this. Indian railways do this, and so do most other state RTCs. That is because there exist people with different levels of paying capacity in our society and these corporations need to cater to everyone.

I don’t know what the charter was for BTS when it was started several decades ago. But it is not the same Bangalore any more. As the monopoly public transport provider of this ever growing city, BMTC has a charter which goes beyond just providing bus services at the lowest possible level. One of their charter is to provide services that can reduce the congestion and pollution in this city and that can only be done by getting people to switch from their private vehicles and this again is possible only by providing premium services like the Volvo services.

By the way I don’t understand why you also attack the Big-10 buses. They are just ordinary buses with a different livery and have reasonable fares. And on the routes that I see these buses regularly (Sarjaur and Kadugodi) they are very well patronized.

The people who patronize the premium services do not require any subsidies and will be more than happy to pay their fair share in order to use these services, as they are already doing now when they use the private Volvo services on inter-state routes. But under the present system BMTC has a monopoly in city bus services in Bangalore and they are the only entity which can provide this service that the people badly need. You keep referring to the half-empty buses. That is probably because you are looking at the wrong bus at the wrong time. The Volvo buses are running quite full during the commute hours as expected in a city bus system.

As regards the fare in Volvo buses I guess BMTC is in a bind. If they raise the fare there will be many people complaining that the services would have gone out of reach of the middle class. If they lower the fare there will be others complaining that the poor are subsidizing the middle class. 

You make the claim that the premium services are being subsidized by the ordinary commuters. If that is the case then please lobby for BMTC to be bifurcated into separate corporations with a separate corporation to cater to the premium services with its on funding mechanisms. There will be many people behind this initiative.  

 


Naveen's picture

Subsidies - Second nature to some

up
87 users have liked.

Nobody is objecting to the aam aadmis or anyone else from using these more comfortable volvo services, provided of course they pay for it.

The mentioning of robbing peter to pay paul sounds like the same old argument of asking for subsidised tickets on volvos.

We have been having too much subsidies in this country & the habit of asking for even more has become second nature for some, I guess.

sanjayv's picture

a quick summary and requests

up
76 users have liked.

 This thread goes through a never ending series on this debate.  If I may, could I summarize the debate a little bit in slightly different words.

There have been several reports that BMTCs volvo service is loss making.  In view of this fact and that many a times, ordinary buses are crowded and not very comfortable - VKM sir has questioned whether the emphasis on Volvos is leading to a loss and whether the ordinary bus users are subsiizing the "rich" volvo users.

There has been vigorous opposition by some on the counts that (a) stratified service is common in India and that stratified service is required in India (b) Stratified service is essential to lure the a typical bus users to use their cars less

I think everybody has valid points here.  Presumably, nobody is against having some better quality buses that are higher cost on the roads.

Could we look at this problem  a little differently. I think several facts are not clear.  We need to comprehend the facts clearly before having any sort of meaningful debate, in my humble opinion.  A question list is posted below

(a) What is the real cost of a Volvo B7R bus? Several numbers are available. What are the projected O&M costs? What would be volvo's profit margins at the correct price.  Does the excise and customs policies get in the way of impacting the bus cost?

(b) What is the real cost of an "ordinary" bus. How is the quoted price computed considering that the chassis is often built by BMTC.

(c) What are the pros and cons of ordinary versus volvo?

(d) What are the desirable qualities of a good city bus meant to target car users from the perspective of economics, safety and ride quality? Cost, features, operation, ticket price etc.

(e) Finally, we need to look at BMTC's financial statements for the last few years and comprehend the impact of volvos, fuel price fluctuations

(f)  About BMTC itself - how many buses can their depots hold?

Would somebody be interested in pursuing this angle? (I am trying to narrow my focus of activities on PRAJA and hence would not want to volunteer for any of this).  Some of this may already be reported somewhere on this site itself.  VKM may already have a firm grip on the finacial aspects... I have not been able to understand much of the numbers available on BMTC website and CAG website.

skumaras's picture

On robbing Peter...

up
95 users have liked.

 Naveen,

Pathy wrote>>> No one is objecting to more comfortable buses, if the riders pay for it. What is immoral is robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I read Pathy's post again. I think what he seems to be suggesting is that it is immoral to rob the ordinary commuters (Peter) to subsidize the Volvo commters (Paul). I don't think he is asking for the poor to be given subsidized tickets. 


Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Yes, Peter is ord commuter & Paul the volvo commuter

up
82 users have liked.

@skumaras Sir

Mr.Pathy is right.  but with reference to this context, Mr.Paul is a rich man and he need not be paid by robbing Paul because he has many other means (giving up 4 wheelers etc., are all passe) and Volvo is a 'spare tyre'.

- What is proved beyond doubt is Peter is being robbed.

@ sanjayv sir,

Your summarising is done very well;  your questions about (a) to (f) are also relevant but many of them have already been answered in one of the 150  posts logged so far and gone through by more than 4000 readers so far. 

- Your  (f)  About BMTC itself - how many buses can their depots hold? is also very relevant and if I can add further, ABOUT BENGALURU ROADS  - HOW MANY BUSES CAN THEY HOLD?

- Latest Media Report is that about 1000 more buses are being inducted and 165 are being inducted by end of this month.  Simple arithematic - 165 X 60 feet = 9900 feet of road will be occupied and your vehicle will be behind all these buses?! Paradox. Moreover, we do not know how many of them will be volvos.

- Media Reports have also stated that about 20 Volvos will be added to Atal services for catering to the poor and lower middle class commuters.   Let us wait for a reality check.

- Will introduction of more buses on  road solve the commuters vows or speed up reaching our destinations, when all these buses will be standing one behind the other?

- vasanth mysoremath

 

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Good News - Smart Cards- Swipe&Save

up
73 users have liked.

Source; Dec.Chronicle todate

BMTC proposes to introduce Smart Cards for Cashless Travel

- Swipe & Save

- several concessions may be offered !!

 - hassle free travel - no probs reg tendering right fare

- eliminates revenue leakage

- Youngsters fond of plastic money

- pilot project on ITPL depot route

- increasing ETMs for collection of real time info on revenue

- in talk with Google to market BMTC website

-setting up giant LCD monitors for dissemination of info

- vasanth mysoremath

-

kbsyed61's picture

Dicussions will have some meaning when!

up
81 users have liked.

VKM,

The discussions will have some meaning only when people like me and you who often complain on this forum take it to logical conclusion. In these instances we take these issues to respective public agencies.

Let me tell you this again. SB also said this umpteen times. We all are at liberty to pursue actions that we think are necessary in the form and mode we think best. Therefore you are also free to take stratification battle to BMTC thru Srihari and other experts on your own in way you think is best . You certainly don't need our messenger service.

But we will certainly use our contacts in BMTC to setup a formal meeting if you think that would be helpful.

I am sure you would agree that for such formal meetings we need to have a set and agreed agenda for  a fruitful discussion with powers that matters. You also would agree that the discussions to be be focused and fruitful, we need data points that establishes the issue that we want BMTC to address. In our past meetings with BMTC, BMRC and others we have learn't that a brief and concise presentations, document listing the issues are well received and also serve as reference to ask for responses from the authorities.

A formal document(s) is very much necessary to have the focused discussion. For that you can skimmed the necessary points, data, statistics and expert opinions from this post, and other discussions. If you can rope in experts like Sriharu that would be great.

But let me warn you about the statistics from News media. They are all politically and business motivated. So be cautious in using numbers from News media. We have seen the untruths and utter lies that major news media unleashed in BIAL saga.

I would like to stress here that, myself and other team members will continue to engage BMTC to convey the popular sentiments of Praja and working hard to get necessary actions taken. At the same time every body on this forum are also free and encouraged to device their own plans to bring sanity in public transport and other spheres of life in Bangalore.

 

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Tried to engage Mysore KSRTC but....

up
90 users have liked.

Syed Sir

Not only BMTC even with Mr.Srihari around to create a sensible approach towards providing socially acceptable mass transport system with a touch of class action, I tried the same in Mysore and after failing in my decent direct approach, tried to enage a highly respected national daily print media route for sneaking into the discussion.  But when concerned authorities sensed the subject, even the media gentleman was cold shouldered.

With reference to your and SB's theory of holistic approach and advising me to pursue my route, let me submit why I am so whinning, ranting, ranching, bitching in my posts:

As an Audit man, I have experienced how these 'men in black' try a million ways to circumvent and to supply documents for audit on a direct question;  innovate, invent, bend, crawl through every escape route to avoid getting caught for having raped the system for their selfish ends and how Audit was able to seal all those rat routes and finally pin point lapses through Audit Reports...etc on how they have looted the treasury with documentary supportings. Money value held under  audit objection runs in hundreds of thousands of crores of rupees and if only that much money is recovered from the perpetrators, India will really be swimming in sovereign reserves.  It is not only in the treasury sector but also private sector that is under some State guideline  prescribing ethical governance. 

Let me also quote what Arundati Roy has to say in her latest book - Listening to Grasshoppers:  Rage against the Democracy (Penguin 2009) reviewed in Dec.Herald of today:

"Every 'democratic' institution in this country has shown itself to be unaccountable, inaccessible to the ordinary citizen and either unwilling, or incapable of acting, in the interests of genuine social justice."

She further says...democracy 'has been used up', 'hollowed out'' and 'emptied of meaning' and its institutions have 'metastasised into something dangers'

and the following classic observation - worth chewing..

"We are standing at a fork in the road" Roy warns. "One sign post points in the direction of Justic, the other points towards "Civil War" - there is no third sign and there is no going back - CHOOSE.

Why Grasshoppers? - a bad omen that Armenians believe portends catastrophe that preceded the massacre of 1.5 million Armenians by the Turkish state in 1915.  She is drawing attention to certain recent fanatic incidents in India and appears to be warning - wheat is ripening and the grasshoppers have landed in mainland India - india is on the road to catastrophe... 

- Is she whinning, ranting, ranching?

And it is up to us to do something to avoid ... how we do it is upto all of us Prajas not by pulling, pushing, nudging someone with Sigmond Freud's syndrome.

- Vasanth Mysoremath

 

 

Vasanth's picture

Well, most of the things go at the high level not at root level

up
84 users have liked.

 To improve any service, we have to be the end users first. A person who travels daily in a car or 2 wheeler cannot like our press reporter brothers, nor NGOs like Janagraha or ABIDE. It is the sensible end user's feedback that has to be taken into account.  Long conceptual blogs and articles and discussions will not do any trick. We need to be more practical and at the grass root level, taking each locality and route into considerations.

I recently posted my experience in regularly commuting on the ring road, the problems and the possible solutions. Somewhat like that we need every Praja member to travel in BMTC buses atleast for a month and share their experiences and possible solutions.

 

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

380 more buses-Speed reduced to less than 13.5 km per hour

up
86 users have liked.

Transport Minister inducted 380 more buses to BMTC fleet - 111 Volvos, 203 Leyland and 66 TATA buses.

Transliterates into  380 X 60 feet each  = 22800 feet of road will be occupied afresh by these buses and we will be travelling at less than 13.5 km per hour from tomorrow.

- Vasanth Mysoremath.  

 

pathykv's picture

380 new buses

up
92 users have liked.

Hope the new buses will be deployed in new routes, say from corner to corner bypassing the bus stations at Majestic, Shivajinagar, Market etc. to avoid jamming the roads to these bus stations and fulfilling the crying needs of the commuters where bus services are inadequate/nonexistant.

K.V.Pathy

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

@pathy Sir, sorry to disappoint...

up
88 users have liked.

No Sir, in all probability, these buses will ply within the CBD to showcase its world city syndrome.  

The rickety ones will be shifted to, as you mentioned, to outer ring roads, inner ring roads, etc., etc., to cater to aam aadmi so that on the one hand,  their utilisation aspects are not questioned and on the other hand to cater to the increasing demand of having more buses to run with more frequencies.

- Vasanth Mysoremath.

.

 

Srivatsava's picture

@VKM Sir, Sorry to Dissappoint...

up
79 users have liked.

The rickety ones will be shifted to, as you mentioned, to outer ring roads, inner ring roads, etc., etc., to cater to aam aadmi

Wonderful VKM Sir,

I have intentionly kept myself away from all the 1,828 past posts on stratified BMTC services :)

But this line of yours is worth appreciating. Lots of 'techie tech' (read richie rich) people who use the highly frequent and efficient ring road service. These techie techs would be extremely pleased to hear you classify them as 'aam aadmi'.

Kelrappo Keli........ anta dangoora saarabeku anta aase aagtaa-ide :)

-Srivatsava

PS: This is intented to be a fun post. I just couldnt resist posting this

-Srivatsava V

pathykv's picture

BMTC buses

up
92 users have liked.

Even if they deploy the old buses in new and necessary routes avoiding the CBD bus stations giving connectivity between the corners of the city it will be beneficial.

They should immediately introduce Railway station services a la Airport services.l.

K.V.Pathy

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

@Srivatsava - Anisuthide yaako indu....

up
86 users have liked.

Kelrappo kelri....It seems only richie rich techees are using BMTC services in the outer and inner ring roads?  Wrong assumption...let us talk of class action and before they became techies, what were they, how were they, other than aam aadmis? 

Suffering from superiority complex ? - pun intended and take this also as fun post.

Sri try riding red board buses not volvos/mercs/macropolos.  My father used to tell me.. never suffer from either of the complexes... both are bad.

@Pathy Sir,

Your observation is very sensible..yes if HSRL or other variants of rail connectivity improves in namma Bengaluru, more buses connecting the railway stations to satellite areas/extensions may help in reducing cross-city travel through CBD.

Hope some day...

Vasanth Mysoremath

 

pathykv's picture

New buses

up
86 users have liked.

I had sent my comments to BMTC (ctmobmtc@gmail.com).

I am pleasantly surprised to get the response as below.

K.V.Pathy

"Dear Sir,

Your suggestions are well taken and will be examined.

Looking forward for your continued patronage.

With regards

CTm(O)
BmTc"

kbsyed61's picture

Vasanth, you are bang on!

up
86 users have liked.

Vasant,

You are right bang on when you said

"Long conceptual blogs and articles and discussions will not do any trick................."

"we need every Praja member to travel in BMTC buses at least for a month and share their experiences and possible solutions..."

In that spirit, pls do look forward to some sustained campaigns on BMTC service from Praja and take the real time experience to the BMTC for corrective actions. In that endeavor, we definitely needs tens of Volunteers who could provide the feedback, statistics, data points, photos etc.

Some campaigns (to be run for a month or so) that are thought about are:

  1. Observing the pattern of BMTC Buses stopping at Bus Stops.
  2. Destination Boards - Displayed correctly or not

I am sure the list is not enough. Will look forward to more suggestions.

Syed

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

BMTC bottomline cracking up by Volvos & road humps

up
91 users have liked.

Cost of replacing one Volvo Windscreen - Rs.32,000

Rear glass  Rs.5000/- 

- reasons for cracking up of glasses - unscientific road humps

- Bengaluru is a city that boasts of legal and illegal 'designer' road humps

- Lok Ayukta has pointed out existence of over 1000 illegal humps

- There is no need for speed breakers in the city because every 100 meters the traffic jam acts as speed barriers. 

-  stats not available on lakhs of rupees spent so far on how many glasses have been replaced so far - Volvo can cruise at 70 km per hour but present speed in namma Bengaluru - average 18 km per hour

-  T&C with Volvo - agreement does not include replacements of this kind and BMTC is under obligation to do so the moment a glass cracks up

-  Traffic police want civic agencies to adhere to Indian Road Congress norms while putting up road humps.  Period.

-  Another dubious distinction of namma Bengaluru, in anvil - City of spinal disorders.

-  Bottom line: Bengaluru roads are not worthy of running Volvos.

Source: 'UN-JAM' Bangalore Mirror today.

-  Vasanth Mysoremath

 

 

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

'Kai Thoridalli Nilluve' - trying to make up losses?

up
89 users have liked.

copied from 'One month of BMTC....

 

' Volvos becoming 'Kai Thoridalli Nilluve'

@Vasanth - 23 Nov 2009

BMTC Volvos have now become like passenger trains with 'Kai Thoridalli Nilluve'. Drivers and conductors have some margin in the amount of tickets paid. It is good when I get a bus that stands in front of me when I am approaching bus stand. But, people are misusing it and standing in a place nearer to home, showing hands and getting onto buses. When it is getting delayed to the office and when the buses are doing this 'Kai Thoridalli Nilluve', it gets frustating. Normal buses are not doing this and they are more faster on the ORR except for the fact there is no A/C.

Vasanth's picture

I don't think there are losses in Volvo / Vajra Services

up
97 users have liked.

 I don't know how they say it is making losses. It may be running under losses while running to residential areas with lesser fares and shorter distances like V45G and V2, but not the ones running to IT areas like Electronic City and ITPL. Otherwise, they wouldn't have added so many Volvos.

Fares used to be very high during earlier days of Vajra and occupancy was nominal to ITPL and residential Volvos like V2 were running 'thin' business. Recently with Volvo promos and other things, prices have reduced a lot and almost everyone gets into Volvos/ Vajras. IT Sector Volvos do not have space to stand and the average fare is in the order of 25 rupees with fares as high as 60 from Vijaynagar to ITPL. Bus will be full right from the start of the journey.

It is not the BMTC strategy - it is the driver conductor strategy since they have percent share among the tickets sold in Volvos. You will not see the conductor putting money into his pocket without tickets in Vajras since they have the percent share unlike ordinary buses where shorter distance ticket fare goes to conductor's pocket.

I feel that, every area needs atleast Parisaravahini or Suvarna direct connectivity and if possible Volvo connectivity to IT areas like Electronic City, ORR and Whitefield during morning and evening hours after 5PM with nominal frequency. Because of the eastern Bangalore connectivity problems as discussed in another thread, traffic volume is too high on the three roads. Car travel becomes highly expensive and 2 wheeler travel is unsafe. One has to either use company shuttles or BMTC to be on the safer side as well as economical side. One has to get adhered to company shuttle timings which many cannot and hence have to use BMTC or private transport. Very few can get direct connectivity buses to these areas otherwise one has to hop on and hop off many buses. 

sanjayv's picture

volvo conductors also pocket money

up
89 users have liked.

 I have seen that happen and complained to BMTC with date and time and a copy of my ticket so that they know the time and route..  They responded promising action, however, I do not really know if action really was taken. Nowadays, volvo conductors also have the habit of writing change amount on the ticket and occasionally purloining the change when the passenger forgets or is unable to csatch the conductor because these buses get so full in the mornings and evenings on the IT sector route.

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Good, bad and ugly

up
82 users have liked.

@vasanth / Sanju

Good - to find that Volvos are getting commuters and sometimes overloaded to the extent of having many standing 'seats'.

The Bad: 

Question  - (1) Even with this occupancy ratio (sometimes overloaded) and stopping at unscheduled stops for picking up commuters, are the buses recovering even 25 per cent of their investment+depreciation+ interest+running costs like fuel, staff +wear/tear+inventory+loss of revenue due to pilferage?

-  Stat Add on: Cost of Volvo: Rs.85 lakh (does this keep changing with models?); Mileage - 1.5 to 2 km in city and 2.5 on highways;  

-  (2) Each bus is designed to carry 35 to 40 seated commuters; if it is overloaded with standing commuters, the question that arises is - In case of any major breakdown due to this overloading factor, does the Volvo company attend to this (T&C of AMCs are not available on the public domain) because only Volvo automobile engineers/workmen have to touch the Volvos and not the BMTC mechanics in the workshop.

- Stat Add On: Due to bad roads/potholes/rough driving - swevering at high speed jolts the bus and certain amount of pressure on the entire frame of the bus has its own connotations on the dynamics of bus design, glasses of Volvo (front Rs.35,000 Back Rs.15,000 each) are cracking up and it is mandatory for BMTC to get them replaced immediately as per T & C with Volvos in order to maintain its A/C etc., in good repair.

- Commuters comfort zone has been breached by allowing unlawful standing and also Volvo will say 'nay' for repairs due to breach of the T&C of AMC (E&OE).

Ugly:

- Shocking - /'Driver/Conductor Strategy for increasing losses'/ (!) - conductors pocketing moolahs even on Volvos - this only confirms that there is complacency in ensuring discipline among the staff of BMTC - In ordinary buses, it would be a couple of rupees but in Volvo fifty/fifty sharing, the leakage may be in fives or tens of rupees.  Inflation in pilferaging also?

In Mysore city also it is the same loss making even with all the subsidised rates through manipulations of figures albeit at the cost of ordinary bus commuters - with the recent induction of about 80 more buses, bad roads, pilferage etc., profits are like to dwindle, inspite of non-traffic revenue in the form of real estate TTMCs.

- What are the terms and conditions of contract for supply of Volvos/Mercedes/Macropolos? Is it 'n'th value?

- Bottom line: Volvos are becoming like ordinary buses with overloading and increased level pilferage thus increasing the losses. 

- Vasanth Mysoremath  

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

@ murali sir 2007 post

up
96 users have liked.

 

This is what Murali Sir had posted in 2007 BC (pun intended)

BMTC is supposedly making profits, but not all of the --SRTC's. But, making profits in a monopoly situation is no big deal. Besides, a large part of BMTC's revenues today are coming from lease of space to 'Big Bazaar', etc in their so-called transit stations - on Double road, Mysore road, etc - which do not quite serve the purpose for which they were originally intended. Also, the BBMP has now woken up to the reality that these stations had not been authorised by them in the first place, and that they do not pay any municipal taxes either.

Muralidhar Rao
 
 
Thanx Murali Sir, why there is a flurry of activity in BMTC in the field of construction in the name of providing better facility for commuters?  Is it because they have to utilise the funds allotted within the framework of NURM? 
 
JNNURM funds will have to be spent - otherwise they will lapse - there will be a critical analysis and an indepth study by the Ministry and next allotment of funds will depend upon the ways and means adopted for untilisation of funds.
 
 
 
- Vasanth Mysoremath
Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Beginning of the end of profits of KSRTC?

up
90 users have liked.

News: KSRTC to halt new services - Official source

Courtesy: Dec.Chronicle today pg.4

- We may end up with a profit of around Rs.50 crore as against Rs.100 crore- anticipated

- We have decided to put off all projects which were in pipeline

- Non-operational costs are a burden

- Rs.45 crore being spent on accident claims

- Lot of money spent on upgradation of services/infra

- Poor operational (traffic) earnings even with new services like sleeper coaches etc.

HIGH END LUXURY  BUSES (Volvos etc.,) have made things difficult

- Prof Srihari's take: Night service revenue has fallen drastically due to corruption among staff - some issue fake tickets and pocket the money.

- Vasanth Mysoremath

 

 

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Mfrs can't supply buses but Rs.160 crore more

up
92 users have liked.

Cabinet sanctions Rs.160 crore more.

- BMTC to procure new buses by December 2009-JNNURM funds

- BMTC has junked/scrapped 400 buses to make way for new ones

 - orders placed - but only 398 supplied - BMTC sources say that it is unlikely that the mfrs would be able to supply the rest of 600 buses in time due to their internal problems.

- Bus roll out plan

- 900/850 mm floor height (700 Nos.) cost excld.vat- Rs.22 lakh

- 650 mm A/C (100) Rs.31.16 lakh

- 400/390mm A/C (200) Rs.69.33 lakh

Penalty for non-supply:

- Rs.1500 on each bus per day delay starting from Aug.1 since for Tata, July 31st was the last date for delivery

 - this penalty is part of the contract

- Will BMTC collect penalty and show as profit under non-transport revenue (?) or Will Tatas escape penalty ?

source: BM todate.

- Vasanth Mysoremath

 

Vasanth's picture

Whatever it may be - We need more buses...

up
90 users have liked.

 So many cars are getting manufactured and getting delivered which no one questions, whenever it comes to buses, everyone's eyebrows lifts up and see where to put there comment.

Whatever it may be, however it may be, we need more and more buses. Although I am owning a car, two 2 wheelers, nowadays it is so tiring and need so much concentration to drive on Bangalore roads, hence 'intelligent'  people are switching over to buses - especially Vajras, 'lavish' are still struggling themselves and make others also struggle by bringing their cars, especially on the IT corridors.

Still, whatever the confusions added by the commentors, people are struggling hard with crowded buses this is due to lack of frequency.  To increase the frequency, we need more and more buses. Basically people are looking for buses which have excellent pickup to move faster unlike the old buses which were tuned to be fuel efficient and had the speed breaker to add to the woes making the journeys longer and longer.

The new JNNURM low floor blue coloured buses has got excellent engine. It needs bit more time to get pickup, but on a stretch it is as good as a Volvo. Today our 500K Volvo on the ring road stretch which was at pretty good speed of 70+ was overtaken by 500D JNNURM bus.

People now are ready to pay a pie extra, but want comfortable and faster service - It doesn't matter to me if the service provider either BMTC or anyone gives comfortable service which could be lower than two wheeler journey. So is the case of many IT corridors.

Let us think forward on identifying the gaps, probable solutions and establishing contacts with BMTC through Praja contacts and proposing the same.Media wants to simply fill their pages....

 

 

 

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Mani Sir, Thank you-Mysore sets right stratified service

up
86 users have liked.

Source: Star of Mysore dtd 4-12-09

- 69 JNNURM financed buses were running to select areas in Mysore (whether they are breaking even or making loss is another matter) but those areas were having posh houses; none of them were running towards other areas from where majority of the commuters travelled to their work places and to get back.

- At the JNNURM meeting held on Dec 2, all Corporators criticised the city service of KSRTC for its discriminatory method of rendering bus service to majority of the residents who are poor and economically backward though there is a great demand for better running of city services.

- In response, Mr.Manivannan, JNNURM Special Officer directed the KSRTC to ply JNNURM financed buses in those areas also. 

- As a result, 52 low floor buses have been deployed to operate to the following areas also with immdt effect:

Paduvaarahalli, Thonachikoppal, Metagalli, Kurimandi, Hale Kesare, Alanahalli, Palya, Parasayyanahundi, Mogarallimanti, Giriyabovipalya, Rammanahalli, Satagalli etc.

- Whether they keep up the schedules is another matter because in Mysore plying of city services is notoriously bad and commuters are seen waiting for hours together at intermediary stops in extensions etc.

- To boot, Automen are abominably notorious with their meters and their behaviour.

- Any number of complaints are made in writing and through local print and electronic media but to no avail.  We seldom get a decent reply nor the work is done. 

- Silent sufferers and there appears to be a lack of vibrant civil society here. 

- Sub kuch chalta hai

@vasanth

You are very right Sir.  /Whatever it may be we need more buses/.  Let us take this further but with conditions attached -

- let there be a touch of class action with CDM at affordable, sustainable and comfortable travel experience as enunciated in the socio-economic charter of a social sector public undertaking financed from public money. 

- secondly, run them if you can find more road space.  

- even though our family has two cars and three bikes, whenever I go out, I make it a point to take BMTC bus with a daily ticket costing Rs.30/- and I hop, skip and jump from one corner to another without wasting time but moving without wasting time. And I travel fast.

- another point is, even if I take the car, I will be just behind a BMTC bus and my car and that bus reach the same destination at the same time. So,  why shouldn't I travel in the bus minus all the jitters of driving the car.   Let others also think in the same way.

- Vasanth Mysoremath

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

At last some sensible thought for aam aadmi's comfort?

up
80 users have liked.

Hi,

The following is the cut and paste from The New Indian Express, Bengaluru edition dated 2nd April 2013.

Let us watch and wait how it gets implemented.

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath

BMTC plans low-cost AC buses for B'lore

Soon the non-IT sector passengers, students and ‘common man’ will be able to travel in AC buses at low fares. The good response from the people to the AC buses in the city has prompted Bangalore Metropolitan Transport Corporation (BMTC) to look at low-cost AC buses for wider coverage.

The BMTC is in talks with manufacturers to make buses at `50-`55 lakh to offer AC services to the non-IT crowds which cannot afford the normal AC bus fares.

The first such bus to hit the market, after Marcopolo (from Tata), is the Jan bus. Manufactured by Ashok Leyland, this bus is in its final trial stages, according to BMTC officials.

“Ashok Leyland is doing a trial of the bus, which they call the Jan bus or ‘people’s bus’. They presently have five buses. Once they go into manufacturing, we will be the first one to get it, after which we will do a trial in the city. We have also asked the manufacturers of Corona and Volvo buses to consider manufacturing low-cost buses as they have a huge market,” said a senior BMTC official.

At present, the only other bus offering AC services at lower cost is Marcopolo. However, with numerous complaints like frequent breakdowns and emission of smoke from these buses, the BMTC is now looking at other options.

BMTC now has 90 Marcopolo buses. At a recent board meeting too, the BMTC had asked Volvo personnel to look at manufacturing AC buses in the Rs 50-lakh range. Both Volvo and Corona buses cost about Rs 80-Rs 90 lakh, while the normal non-AC buses cost about Rs 30 lakh.

“With low-cost AC buses, we will be able to offer the comfort of AC buses at about 30-40 per cent lesser cost,” said the official.

srinidhi's picture

AC means more pollution rt?

up
77 users have liked.

AC busses means more pollution on the streets and more drain on the precious imported diesel..

Instead how about planting more road side trees with larger canopies..which can give the best shade for everyone..peds to busses and keep the temperatures and pollution down..

As found during the survey during mobilicity 2013, people are looking for reliable service than anything else..comfort of AC did not figure much...so why not work at providing that instead?

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Public transport continues to suffer - myopic planning

up
80 users have liked.

The following appeared in the Deccan Chronicle of today (20-5-13)- many of you might have seen it but some may have missed. This is the kind of situation which was foreseen as far back as 2009 when this blog started:

Huge crowds but no buses at city bus stands every evening 



Within the next three or four months, Electronic Ticketing machines will be installed at bus entrances, and there will be cards that passengers can swipe in to pay bus fares

Most of the major bus stands in the city are overcrowded with commuters after 8 p.m. everyday as the frequency of buses at this time is very less. Commuters complain that they have to wait for almost an hour for buses to come. However, there there are no complaints about the bus frequency throughout the day.  Most private company employees put in long hours at work, so if bus services are reduced at peak hours, commuters are left stranded in bus stands after a tiring day at work. “I have to wait for at least 45 minutes almost everyday, before the bus comes. This problem arises only after 8 p.m. It is really very irritating.” says Monalisa Dey, a software professional.  The general shift for the BMTC buses ends at 8.30 p.m, so there are less buses comparatively, a BMTC staff says, adding that the peak hour period is considered to be 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. Due to this, passengers are left with no option other than taking autorickshaws that charge extremely high prices, or use private buses that operate illegally to earn extra bucks. This has become a regular problem for commuters.

Anjum Parvez, MD,

BMTC said, “The frequency of buses after 8 p.m. is less presently, but very soon 300 new buses will be added to different routes by next month. Hopefully this will help ease down the crowd pressure.“ Moreover, BMTC is also coming up with new ways to solve the change problem while paying ticket fares. Within the next three or four months, Electronic Ticketing machines will be installed at bus entrances, and there will be cards that passengers can swipe in to pay bus fares. This way the problem of conductors not returning change and passengers escaping without buying tickets, can be avoided, he added.

===================

Buying tickets is not a big problem and will not hasten fast movement of buses because the roads are choked, every traffic signal takes its own time and no amount of GPS or GIS will help the commuters who have resigned themselves to their fate of movement according to its own course.  Whether you are in a Volvo or Marcopolo or in a Porche or Ferari, you will reach your destination according to the dictats of the traffic. That's it.

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath

 

 

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Public transport continues to suffer - myopic planning

up
84 users have liked.

The following appeared in the Deccan Chronicle of today (20-5-13)- many of you might have seen it but some may have missed. This is the kind of situation which was foreseen as far back as 2009 when this blog started:

Huge crowds but no buses at city bus stands every evening 



Within the next three or four months, Electronic Ticketing machines will be installed at bus entrances, and there will be cards that passengers can swipe in to pay bus fares

Most of the major bus stands in the city are overcrowded with commuters after 8 p.m. everyday as the frequency of buses at this time is very less. Commuters complain that they have to wait for almost an hour for buses to come. However, there there are no complaints about the bus frequency throughout the day.  Most private company employees put in long hours at work, so if bus services are reduced at peak hours, commuters are left stranded in bus stands after a tiring day at work. “I have to wait for at least 45 minutes almost everyday, before the bus comes. This problem arises only after 8 p.m. It is really very irritating.” says Monalisa Dey, a software professional.  The general shift for the BMTC buses ends at 8.30 p.m, so there are less buses comparatively, a BMTC staff says, adding that the peak hour period is considered to be 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. Due to this, passengers are left with no option other than taking autorickshaws that charge extremely high prices, or use private buses that operate illegally to earn extra bucks. This has become a regular problem for commuters.

Anjum Parvez, MD,

BMTC said, “The frequency of buses after 8 p.m. is less presently, but very soon 300 new buses will be added to different routes by next month. Hopefully this will help ease down the crowd pressure.“ Moreover, BMTC is also coming up with new ways to solve the change problem while paying ticket fares. Within the next three or four months, Electronic Ticketing machines will be installed at bus entrances, and there will be cards that passengers can swipe in to pay bus fares. This way the problem of conductors not returning change and passengers escaping without buying tickets, can be avoided, he added.

===================

Buying tickets is not a big problem and will not hasten fast movement of buses because the roads are choked, every traffic signal takes its own time and no amount of GPS or GIS will help the commuters who have resigned themselves to their fate of movement according to its own course.  Whether you are in a Volvo or Marcopolo or in a Porche or Ferari, you will reach your destination according to the dictats of the traffic. That's it.

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath

 

 

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Stratified services plus making losses by KSRTC -

up
87 users have liked.

Vijaya Karnataka dated 26-6-2013 today - Extract -

KSRTC is moving towards heavy losses -  Most Traffic Transit Management Centers (TTMCs) constructed with JnNURM/public money are incurring losses -

More from: http://vijaykarnataka.indiatimes.com/articleshow/20765926.cms

- 15 KSRTC Divisions have 1029 shops - most shop keepers have not paid rents for long periods - complacency of concerned noticed.

- of these, more than 157 are lying vacant - no takers - No response to Tender notifications inviting bids - Cost-more than a lakh of rupees per newspaper ad 

- Overdue rents - total Rs.1,20,03,896 upto March 2013

- hotels in these complexes are charging more than Rs.5 to 8 per item thus fleecing the public

-ಬಾಕಿ ಉಳಿಸಿಕೊಂಡಿರುವ ಮಳಿಗೆದಾರರಿಂದ ಬಾಡಿಗೆ ವಸೂಲಿ ಮಾಡಲು ಕ್ರಮ ಕೈಗೊಳ್ಳಲಾಗುತ್ತಿದೆ. ಬಾಕಿ ಉಳಿಸಿಕೊಂಡಿರುವ ಹಣಕ್ಕೆ ಬಡ್ಡಿ ವಿಧಿಸಲಾಗುತ್ತಿದೆ. ಹಲವು ನಿಲ್ದಾಣಗಳಲ್ಲಿ ಸಾಕಷ್ಟು ಮಳಿಗೆಗಳು ಖಾಲಿ ಇವೆ. 20-25 ಬಾರಿ ಟೆಂಡರ್ ಕರೆದರೂ ಪ್ರಯೋಜನವಾಗಿಲ್ಲ. ಟೆಂಡರ್ ಪ್ರಕಟಣೆಗಾಗಿಯೇ ಲಕ್ಷಾಂತರ ರೂ. ಖರ್ಚಾಗಿದೆ. ನಿಲ್ದಾಣಗಳು ಪಟ್ಟಣ ಪ್ರದೇಶದಿಂದ ಒಳಭಾಗದಲ್ಲಿರುವ ಕಾರಣ, ಮಳಿಗೆಗಳನ್ನು ಬಾಡಿಗೆಗೆ ಪಡೆಯಲು ಮಾಲೀಕರು ಹಿಂದೇಟು ಹಾಕುತ್ತಿದ್ದಾರೆ.
-ಎಂ.ಪಿ.ಪ್ರಭುದಾಸ್, ಮುಖ್ಯ ಸಂಚಾರ ವ್ಯವಸ್ಥಾಪಕ (ವಾಣಿಜ್ಯ), ಕೆಎಸ್‌ಆರ್‌ಟಿಸಿ

------------

Huge crowds but no buses at city bus stands every evening

- Deccan Chronicle 19th May 2013

--------------------

What about losses being incurred in running the white elephants - the Volvos etc?

If KSRTC had stuck to its Vision and Mission, it could have earned the goodwill of commuters and also made profits as before -

Admn.Report 2011-12 contains info about fleet utilization, revenue, mileage etc.

  1. Provide people-centered (quality, efficient, integrated and safe) services
  2. Commuter responsive service planning and promotion
  3. Optimize resources and build capacity
  4. Adopt environment-friendly and sustainable practices
  5. Strengthen commuter feedback mechanism
  6. Modernize and maintain zero breakdown fleet
  7. Evolve effective mechanism to monitor service performance
  8. Conduct safety training, performance audits and awareness for stakeholders
  9. Increase commercial revenue through monetizing land, buildings & buses
  10. Increase efficiency in operations and administration 
  11. Ensure inter-agency coordination and multi-modal integration
  12. Formulate and enforce police measures for sustainability of the service provision
  13. Implement Intelligent Transport System to improve the quality of service
  14. Extend travel concession to the weaker sections of the society
  15. Act as an agent for cultural synthesis and national integration
  16. Promote research on urban transport

-----

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath

 

-

 

 

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Stratified service killed 8 commuters -

up
92 users have liked.

Source: Extract from dna

Vishnusamudra lake, killing eight passengers and injuring 52 others, on Tuesday, protestors from Belur and Sakleshpur blocked the road to the KSRTC depot in Sakleshpur on Wednesday, in a bid to stop buses from rolling out. 

The protestors accused the KSRTC of being negligent towards providing safe buses for people in rural areas. 

“We are not protesting only for the people who died in Belur, but the very attitude of the KSRTC for scheduling vehicles that were fit to be condemned or de-commissioned from service,” said Rajappa, leader of the protestors. 

“The Sakleshpur depot had only limited fleet of vehicles, of which, all the best buses were sent to Bangalore, Chikmagalur, Madikeri, Hassan and Mangalore routes, while the battered vehicles were sent to Belur, Halebid, Alur and other rural places. This discrimination cannot be tolerated anymore,” Rajappa said. 

Taking cue from the agitation at Sakleshpur, dna made a fact check about the maintenance schedule at divisional depots of Mangalore, Hassan and Chikmagalur and Puttur. It found that 30% of the vehicles have already done over 6 lakh kilometres and were relegated to  rural services, while newer buses in Rajahamsa and Suvarna Karnataka Sarige brands and express schedules were being sent on routes with better roads. 

“While we do not grudge KSRTC reserving their  best vehicles for long distance services, we do feel let down when we have to travel in battered buses on pothole ridden roads in rural areas. KSRTC is a government organisation and it cannot discriminate between the class of passengers. Even rural passengers are entitled for safer and well maintained buses, if not luxury vehicles,” Deveerappa, a regular traveler from Sakleshpur to Belur told dna. 
 

Full story at:

http://www.dnaindia.com/bangalore/1865395/report-protests-against-ksrtc-s-biased-rural-services

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Legislators attribute Beluru KSRTC bus accident to bad bus

up
86 users have liked.

MLAs from Hassan observed that the bus that killed 8 people had run more than 8 lakh kms and this was beyond the norms fixed for scrapping the bus, mechanical fitness certificate issued by RTO is circumspect, almost all buses in Sakleshpur depot are not road worthy, no retaining wall on the bund was not the cause but according to the Driver, the steering rod broke.  

Response from Govt:  - Six new double door buses have been supplied to Sakleshpur Depot on Wednesday (23-7-13).

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath

blrpraj's picture

re: Legislators attribute Beluru KSRTC bus accident to bad bus

up
87 users have liked.
MLAs from Hassan observed that the bus that killed 8 people had run more than 8 lakh kms and this was beyond the norms fixed for scrapping the bus, mechanical fitness certificate issued by RTO is circumspect, almost all buses in Sakleshpur depot are not road worthy, no retaining wall on the bund was not the cause but according to the Driver, the steering rod broke.   Response from Govt:  - Six new double door buses have been supplied to Sakleshpur Depot on Wednesday (23-7-13).

@VSM,

The title of your original post is misleading since the accidents are not due to stratified services in theh first place. The response of the govt in supplying new buses to the skeshput depot is shortsighted. Doctor has prescribed an immediate medicine to treat the symptom at the surface and is ignoring the underlying root cause and the disease itself. Road crashes in my opinion are a bigger killer than cancer and cardiovascular diseases combined among healthy people below 60 years of age. The sad problem is that these accidental deaths are preventable and the government & public have not woken up.

I had written a post on praja -

http://praja.in/en/blog/blrpraj/2012/11/02/accidents-involving-commercial-vehicles

but, if you notice the last reply (from santosharjun ), that is more or less the attitude in our country. It has a list of negative things why nothing can be done in India. Even before a solution is attempted we have accepted defeat. I don't think that the goverment or the people are realizing the magnitude of road accident problem in our country. It is worse than any epidemic that could strike the country. So, check out the following figures of road accident deaths  -

Whole of India - 1,39,091. This equates to 278   "Airbus 380" planes crashing every year in India.

Karnataka(10%) - 13909. This equates to 27 "Airbus 380" planes crashing every year in karnataka state alone.

For the above calculations i have assumed a approx. figure of 500 passengers per A-380 plane which is the average seating in a 2 class configuration, A-380 can in fact seat more in a high density single class configuration. Also, i have used the statistics published in http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/kerala/tamil-nadu-tops-in-road-accident-deaths/article4843433.ece.

Reason i have drawn a comparison with a plane is to illustrate the magnitude of the problem. Aviation has become so safe that in the past 10 years for example there is only one plane crash in india (the Mangalore Air India express crash). And if there is a crash, a detailed investigation is launched and corrective measures are put into place preventing future crashes thereby making air travel very safe. Why not for road travel? Just supplying new buses to a bus depot is not going to solve the problem in my humble opinion.

The same methologies, enforcement and use of technologies that are used in aviation are desperately needed in road transport. This problem is only going to worsen with the introduction of more high speed expressways accross the country on the lines of Mumbai-Pune expressway, NICE Expressway (mysore - bangalore).

If the analysis in this post cannot convey the magnitude of the problem then what else can?!! Actually your original post and my reply don't belong in this thread of stratified services of BMTC at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Stratified maintenance of ordinary buses v/s volvos

up
92 users have liked.

@ blrpraj

Sir,

Your comparison with Airbus and ordinary KSRTC bus is no comparison at all. Look at the way Volvos and other hi-end buses are maintained under the same KSRTC roof. This is what is stratified maintenance.  Like your Airbus, Volvos (Rs.85 lakhs) undergo 'certain set points of inspection/ maintenace' whereas ordinary buses are given a superfluous wash and despite regular complaints by the drivers, the defects are hardly given the full attention.  

Today, a TV channel has reported that a KSRTC bus lost control and rammed into a house - luckily there were no occupants in the house/ no casualty.

A perusal of this thread from 2009 todate will give an idea why incidences involving public transport vehicles are brought into this post that is contd.. from another earlier post. 

Someday your wish of taking care of road transport vehicular movements like those of Airlines may come true.

blrpraj's picture

@vsm - i still disagree

up
84 users have liked.

@VSM,

There is some misunderstanding between us and i still disagree; here is why.

 

First off; I disagree with your post heading "Stratified service killed 8 commuters"
(http://praja.in/en/blog/v...).

Secondly, if you pause and read my post again it will become very clear why i have used the example of Airbus 380, I am  obviously NOT making any direct comparisons. I am just using that to drive home the magnitude of the problem of road accidents. Reason i said that is that if an aircraft crashes the government sits up and springs into action, the media gets involved, there is close scrutiny and corrective action is taken (the world over) and made safe. Little do people realize that the road traffic deaths in the statistics i provided is equivalent to 27 such A-380 aircraft crashing in Karnataka alone EVERY YEAR and again the reason for this comparison is to stimulate the readers of this post and my previous post and the central AND state governments to ask this question - Hey, this is unacceptable, why is the death toll so high; what can we do about it? And one more note - i obviously don't have data what % of road accidents are bus related, lorry related and further within buses whether it was volvo bus, ordinary bus etc. but that is besides the point because my attempt is to highlight the overall lack of safety on the roads PERIOD and the issue of accidents relating to buses not connected to "stratified services" as the political forces may intelligently manipulate it to be (to stir up the rich vs poor thing).

Thirdly, i again repeat, bus accidents has nothing to do with stratified services; irresprctive of bus depot, irrespective of luxury bus - volvo,mercedes etc.; irrespective of rural bus travelling on highway or bus travelling between major cities like bangalore-chennai; the problem of accidents are by and far due to reckless driving; lack of traffic enforcement and bad road design.

In the news report you highlighted in your post ( http://praja.in/en/blog/v...)  MLAs have observed that the bus was beyond the norms for being fit and secondly; driver claimed that the steering rod had broken. Seriously, should anybody beleive this hearsay? Should we believe some bunch of jokers like MLAs and the driver? Who is an MLA to be making such observations? What are their qualifications other than to get political mileage out of this? A national level/state level safety board should actually be investigating every such incident involving a commercial goods OR passenger carrier and come out with a detailed report only after which we will have data to pin the deaths due to bad maintenance or some other factor. I can bet my money that huge % of accidents are caused due to reckless & sleep deprived drivers with the remaining large % being due to badly designed roads. As an example look at this http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2012/HAR1202.pdf ; this is the kind of investigation that should happen with a commercial passenger or goods carrier accdident and a similar kind of report is what should be demanded by the  public from the government.

And as far as the myth that stratified services are causing these accidents as the headline of your other post leads us to believe take a look at this - http://travelbyvolvo.blog...

there are detailed photos of accidents involving luxury buses. The problem is that ill trained drivers with ZERO policing and enforcement are given these high powered buses and let loose on our KILLERhighways. I would frankly not want to travel in one or any highway on which these heavy vehicles are running if given a choice!.

On my recent trip to London i took multiple trips on National Express coaches (volvo service equivalent) and the drivers were so good and following all the rules without rash driving. I am sure even maintenance is good with adequate enforcement.

Hope my long post explains in details my thoughts and clarifies why i disagree along with facts backing what i have stated. 

 

 

 

 

Vasanth's picture

Personal Experience both on a Private & BMTC Bus Today

up
82 users have liked.

Today itself I travelled in a Volvo between Katriguppe to Marathalli Bridge and changed over to a private bus running between Banashankari to Tinfactory and got down at Doddanekundi. Volvo buses despite of being powerful was driven carefully and not rashly creating any problem to other vehicles. On the other hand, private buses want to panic cars and 2 wheelers by using shrilling horn, coming close to vehicles. Same is the case with cabs and office shuttles.

Ofcourse there will be some rash drivers, but they are minimum. Even the pedestrains, bikers and car drivers play around them, if they miss, even a good driver will become a rash driver in the eyes of  people and media.

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Your disagreement is itself stratified

up
88 users have liked.

@ blrpraj

Thank you for not agreeing with my attempt to point out that there is stratification by the public transport authority in Karnataka/BMTC in providing different set of buses to different set of people.

Our conversation is akin to Indo-Pak dialogues - Every time, both agree to disagree with each other and in the same meeting, agree to continue to meet again to arrive at some agreements.

Your quote in your post above: On my recent trip to London i took multiple trips on National Express coaches (volvo service equivalent) and the drivers were so good and following all the rules without rash driving. I am sure even maintenance is good with adequate enforcement.

The above highlighted your sentence is what I am trying to call stratified service. If maintenance was good and the defective steering rod had been checked and replaced before it was sent on road, may be, the bus would not have lost control and plunged into the tank killing 8 people.

HERE IS ANOTHER NEWS item that sanctifies my stratification post:

BMTC still uses 25-year old buses
Source: Deccan Chronicle 29-7-13 
 
BENGALURU, JULY 2
DC CORRESPONDENT

 

 
More than 420 buses of the BMTC, which should have been scraped years ago are still plying in the city.

Statistics show that about 20 percent of Bengalureans use BMTC buses. The city transport corporation runs over 5,864 schedules everyday, with a fleet strength of 6,111 buses.About six per cent of these buses should have been put out of service, as they are both unreliable and a major source of air pollution, according to sources.

As per BMTC policy, buses are scrapped either when they have clocked either 8,00,000 km, or have existed for 10 years. The BMTC has claimed that the old buses are still in a good condition. ““It’s about time that BMTC started taking measures that will help reduce the pollution in the city. At present, we don’t even have a proper scrap yard, so how can we get rid of these old buses,” asked Mr Sreehari, advisor to the government on transport.

Stating the circumstances under which old buses are used, a BMTC official said that the unavailability of BS IV buses force them to use buses that are old. Furthermore, he added that the old buses, which are still in existence are used only in cases of emergency. He informed that over 1,000 new buses are yet to be added to the existing fleet.


Here is another news

from The Hindu of todate - BMTC has incurred a loss of more than Rs.147 crores during 2012-13 and is banking upon JnNURM funding to the extent of Rs.1046 crore - with proposals to procure 550 buses - premium buses including air-conditioned, articulated and hybrid AND THE REMAINING - ORDINARY, SEMI-LOW FLOOR BUSES, at Rs.740 crore 

Secondly, BMTC plans to construct 14 commuter amenity centers (again TTMCs?) - full story at

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/bangalore/bmtcs-hopes-ride-on-jnnurm-funding/article4964116.ece

 

 

 

blrpraj's picture

@VKM

up
78 users have liked.

My responses in bold

 
Thank you for not agreeing with my attempt to point out that there is stratification by the public transport authority in Karnataka/BMTC in providing different set of buses to different set of people.
Our conversation is akin to Indo-Pak dialogues - Every time, both agree to disagree with each other and in the same meeting, agree to continue to meet again to arrive at some agreements.

My response - I was never in doubt nor disagreed about the existense of stratified services (Volvo Luxury AC buses to consumers versus ordinary non AC leyland/tata buses to consumers). In fact stratified services is not a new thing and was there even 20 or 30 years back (Deluxe, Semi Deluxe, Ordinary buses). The disagreement was based on http://praja.in/en/blog/vasanthkumar-mysoremath/2009/07/26/stratified-bmtc-service-making-profits-with-deficient-servic#comment-34460 which leads one to believe that these stratified services is what caused that accident. The problem of badly maintained buses, exhausted drivers, reckless drivers (you just need to sit on a private bus going from Mangalore to Udupi/Manipa to see what extent these drivers go to get a leg up on the competition) is accross the board and serve as causal factors for accidents; AND these causal factors together are a separate thing, completely different from the offering of Stratified Services to consumers. I have seen my fair share of bus accidents over the years.

 

Your quote in your post above: On my recent trip to London i took multiple trips on National Express coaches (volvo service equivalent) and the drivers were so good and following all the rules without rash driving. I am sure even maintenance is good with adequate enforcement.

My response - Agree with you 200% here. Granted that the system in UK is also not perfect and i am sure there are incidents of neglect and accidents but there definitely seems to be better enforcement of maintenance and certification of buses; how did the RTO in Karnataka give the fitness certificate and allow these badly maintained to be plying on the roads with passengers?

 

The above highlighted your sentence is what I am trying to call stratified service. If maintenance was good and the defective steering rod had been checked and replaced before it was sent on road, may be, the bus would not have lost control and plunged into the tank killing 8 people.

Thanks for clarifying. If you had used the heading "Bad maintenance practices in BMTC/KSRTC causing accidents" and perhaps put your post in a different thread it would not have caused confusion. About the defective steering rod in question - again, who investigated? Where is the official report (maybe someone should file an RTI?). I was involved in a bus accident (private operator Seagull Travels) in the early 90s on the way from Mangalore to Bangalore near Hassan. In that case driver claimed "steering cur aithu saar". Cleaner claimed "driver nidde maadda". All this on the roadside when passenders were asking what happened and why the bus went off the road into the ditch (luckily no casualities). Whom to believe without a formal investigation - deverge gottu. This informal talk would eventually make it to the media probably as "steering got cut OR driver fell asleep".

 And again, what does bad maintenance have to do with Stratified Services (the bus i was on in 1992 was a so called luxury bus from a private operator supposedly well maintained)? In my opinion bad maintenance is not limited to just volvo/luxury buses or ordinary buses. It is an endemic problem with emphasis being to squeeze the maximum revenue out of the buses putting passengers at risk. I have seen private & KSRTC buses running on bald tyres in the early 90s too. Continuing on in this para, about enforcement, who is doing anything about all this? Have any of the private or state operators been shut down due to an unacceptable accident rate? I am sure you have read about all the Luxury bus accidents in this link i mentioned earlier - http://travelbyvolvo.blogspot.in/search/label/bus%20accident .I am sure NONE of these operators has been shutdown and formally investigated for criminal negligence (bad maintenance, reckless drivers etc...for all you know some of these accidents could have been caused due to another driver's fault).

 

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

@blrpraj - Thanks - no comment about KSRTC loss/JnNURM funding?

up
81 users have liked.

This stratification... post is the continued thread of the first part - which had about 1000+ posts on Praja - everything under the KSRTC/BMTC canopy has been covered.  This is the reason why I have been posting matters relating to the two monopolistic public transport providers under this post.    

This behemoth was under profit upto 2010-11 and went into Red thereafter, why and how? Please have a look at the CAG's Audit Report (Commercial) on KSRTC at http://cag.gov.in.  Periodical Indepth studies of the services being rendered to commuters have revealed many shortcomings in these reports submitted to the State Legislatures, over the years. 

Has JnNURM funding to KSRTC actually helped the commuter or the flush of funds made KSRTC invest in Volvos/Mercedes etc, and civil construction works to spend the money  for  creating chasms between the haves and have nots, is a matter of introspection and debate.  Karnataka was the only State that has completely utilised the first tranche of funding under JnNURM for transport infrastructure.  But look at what has happened - KSRTC went into Red.

I leave it to the better judgement of Prajas on these issues.

blrpraj's picture

@vkm - profit/loss of KSRTC and JNUMRM funding

up
45 users have liked.

What can i say about profit/loss of KSRTC?  First of all we should ask ourselves as to what we see KSRTC as, is it a govt NOT FOR Profit entity providing essential transportation services OR a ruthless FOR PROFIT ogranization driven by bottom line and profits? I know that the answer is a few keystrokes away at google.com, but my question is valid in the context of your question and my response.

If it is seen as a NON PROFIT organization that is run by the govt and expected to provide an essential service such as transportation then so be it. The question of profit/loss is a moot point then as the tax payors are footing the bill of running KSRTC. People are going to be complaining of a monopolistic agency providing horrible service.

On the other hand if it is a FOR PROFIT entity then expect to see ruthless chopping of loss making routes and trying to increase company bottomline through whatever means possible. Ticket prices would increase by leaps and bounds and would no longer be subsidised..who know we may in fact start seeing fuel sucharges that will reflect true costs of oil on the world market and it's volataility. Would the people want that?  People should be careful what they wish for. Profit driven capatilist organizations are ruthless about making profits and the single minded reason for their existence is "profits" and if it is a public company their job is to keep the shareholders happy..and not necessarily the customers :-)...which means that if they can turn a profit by operating half the buses and only aimed at the well to do folks they will do it leaving the others high and dry. 

Regarding JNUMRM funds i have no comments since i have not followed it actively and i don't trust the government one bit with managing these funds and using them for the right purpose.

 

Bottom line is that the govt. is corrupt, incompetent and incapable of running & providing services. KSRTC should perhaps be restructured from the ground up and something on the lines of DMRC should be created and perhaps some fresh blood is needed in running it. Even though DMRC is a state owned company it seems to have done wonders under Shreedharan. Or perhaps, a PPP model should be tried.

" for  creating chasms between the haves and have nots,"

VKM, this rhetoric is pure political talk, the talk that we have heard from politicians who try to brainwash the masses into creating a divide between the rich and poor and make the rich ones the evil ones and try to extract votes from the "underpriviledged" by making promises. The reality is that life is tough and everyone has got to earn it (you may say this is  all talk..well i have come up the hard way through meager means and so have others in this forum). The govt. should stick to it's job of regulator, policy maker and watch dog and do it properly. If at all it wants to provide some basic essential services like free education in govt schools then let it do it but let it do it properly. It should come out of running other services. Let it provide an environment for growth of economy aand job creation so that people can prosper and earn their livelihood.

 

 

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

WISDOM DAWNS ON BMTC - NO MORE A/C BUSES

up
78 users have liked.

JnNURM has sanctioned 2014 buses for 4 Corpns of KSRTC for providing urban transport - includes 250 A/C buses.  But a prudent decision seems to have been taken and as reported, BMTC has decided to buy ordinary buses in preference to A/C buses.  JnNURM is also funding KSRTC, for the first time, for creating depots, workshops and other need based infrastructure.  (NOT FOR TTMCS/ MALLS ?!!). 

(Edited By Moderator for fonts/style)

Vasanthkumar Mysoremath's picture

Mangalore KSRTC slashes Volvo fares -

up
79 users have liked.

Details at

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mangalore/KSRTC-slashes-fares-on-its-Volvo-services/articleshow/20928687.cms

Question is: Why stratified benefit only in Mangalore Circle? 

blrpraj's picture

re: MANGALORE KSRTC SLASHES VOLVO FARES -

up
77 users have liked.

@vkm

 

You question "Question is: Why stratified benefit only in Mangalore Circle? "

My answer - Where does the article say that stratified services are offered only in Mangalore circle? The article just talks about fare reduction between Mangalore/Udupi and other cities. From your posts it is obvious that you are not happy with stratified services..but that should not cloud your judgment of facts presented; for example the article mentioned in the link you posted. 

This KSRTC timetable proves that "stratified" volvo services are offered in other parts of Karnataka too -

http://www.ksrtc.in/site/sites/all/themes/ksrtc/pdf/volvomap/mys.pdf

Here is a route map of Airavat Volvo services -

http://www.ksrtc.in/site/airavat-route-map

 

So, let me ask some questions now to you - Please help us understand;

1) is your grouse against stratified services as a whole?

2) do you want KSRTC and other service providers to do away with all luxury services and give a one size fits all ordinary service bus to everybody?

3) Or, do you want luxury services to be provided by a separate entity that is spun off from KSRTC that stands on it's own and survives on it's own financials/profits?

Answers to the above questions and some detailed thoughts from you will help generate a better and useful discussion on this forum.  Like i said before, stratified services were there even 30  years back and will not go away and that is the real world we live in. Even to have "darshan" of god we have stratified services like in Tirupati we have "special entry darshan OR Seeghra Darshan)

 

Regarding the robbing Paul to pay Peter analogy that someone gave....i would say that in India, as far as public infrastructure goes the case has been that both Paul AND Peter have been robbed and don't get their money's worth. This is slowly changing in terms of better airports that are being built; the metros that are being built in all cities and better expressways that are coming up....but we have to go a long way still. We need more visionaries who can visualise and implement things. 

 

 

 

Praja.in comment guidelines

Posting Guidelines apply for comments as well. No foul language, hate mongering or personal attacks. If criticizing third person or an authority, you must be fact based, as constructive as possible, and use gentle words. Avoid going off-topic no matter how nice your comment is. Moderators reserve the right to either edit or simply delete comments that don't meet these guidelines. If you are nice enough to realize you violated the guidelines, please save Moderators some time by editing and fixing yourself. Thanks!



about seo | blog