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Nospace infront of Ecospace

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All the IT office goers passing through Bellandur infront of ecospace as well as cab drivers, bmtc bus drivers are all talking about Ecospace. It has become a nightmare for Bangalore Traffic Police.

Various company heads recently met Traffic Police Head, Sri. Saleem.

This is a thread to discuss about how to solve this in a more innovative way.

All the suggestions in citizenmatters facebook etc are all just doing a blame game, with car drivers blaming 2 wheelers and buses, buses blaming on car drivers so on and so forth.

This is the photograph of next junction!

Comments

Vasanth's picture

Congestion Pricing?

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Should congestion pricing enforced between Silkboard and Hebbal ?

Here is how it is done in top 5 cities of world:

 

http://thisbigcity.net/five-cities-with-congestion-pricing/

In London:

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion-charge

In Singapore:

http://www.dac.dk/en/dac-cities/sustainable-cities/all-cases/transport/singapore-the-worlds-first-digital-congestion-charging-system/

There will be lots of opposition for this kind of a system due to powerful users who use cars unlike humble BMTC users who bear all the price hikes.

 

idontspam's picture

3 things to do

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First, out of the 3 lanes in each carriage way on the ORR, physically barricade one lane for a bus+SLR lane. That lane will then move more people faster while people in cars will rot in the other 2 lanes.

Second, double track & add more suburban trains on the yeswantpur hosur line that runs parallel to the ORR, including behind ecospace.

Third, the people in cars dont deserve a solution they deserve contempt & ridicule. So ignore the jam the congestion is a natural disincentive. 

Vasanth's picture

Parking Charges in Tech Parks

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Parking charges should also be started in these tech parks. SEZ should put a policy to allow only 10% of cars of total employee population. I would say even that would be high, 30,000 people sitting - 3,000 cars is too difficult to handle.

Vasanth's picture

Thats a good thought to have both LRT & Buses

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Buses & LRT together would be a good thought. Dedicated lane is a must irrespective of the mode of transport like the private buses or public buses or LRT. People now need a way out of these jams.

idontspam's picture

How could forget to add a

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How could forget to add a bicycle lane :)

vatsan007's picture

Allow only public vehicles in peak hour

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Traffic is increasing each passing day on the stretch of ORR between Silkboard and Marathhalli and it will make matters worse as more and more office space and buildings are being readied. It is painful to see people travelling in Fortunner, Innova, XUV -- with a single occupancy. 

I already see it going out-of-control where traffic is fluidic and people drive in all directions throwing each and every rule in the book to the wind. 

The only option looks like is to ban all private vehicles and allow only public vehicles (BMTC, private buses), taxis on this stretch (between Silkboard and Hebbal) during peak hours -- 8 to 11AM and 5 to 8PM. Running additional buses on this stretch will also be helpful.

 

- Srivatsan

idontspam's picture

Skirting around the barricade

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The buses are already stuck in traffic because of the cars, they need a barricaded lane, we cant escape this fact anymore. Per a recent study in Bangalore 45% modal share for buses (55 as per BMTC) & 5% for private cars in Bangalore and how many lanes do the buses get? Why are 5% people getting 100% of the lanes? 

murali772's picture

promote alternate public transport

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The only option looks like is to ban all private vehicles and allow only public vehicles (BMTC, private buses), taxis on this stretch (between Silkboard and Hebbal) during peak hours -- 8 to 11AM and 5 to 8PM. Running additional buses on this stretch will also be helpful.

Agree totally. Besides, promote alternate public transport, like ZipGo (check here).

Don't quite support barricading - that's similar to BRT.

Muralidhar Rao
idontspam's picture

Unsolicited support

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Don't quite support barricading - that's similar to BRT.

There is nothing to offer support, nobody is asking the car drivers opinion on whether buses need their own lane, barricading is the natural evolution of public transport. If there is an unsolicited opinion on not giving buses & light rail their right of way on the road, then there will be vehement opinions on privatising bus service as well. Im sure thats not where this thread was meant to go.

vatsan007's picture

Reverse logic

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Why are 5% people getting 100% of the lanes?

I'm inclined to apply the reverse logic here... Use a single dedicated line for cars only and all other lines for public transport. 

Sadly, Indian mentality doesn't allow a rule to be followed automatically when published, but only by forceful enforcement.

 

- Srivatsan

murali772's picture

common problems and common solutions

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Light rail system with right of way, quite like London's bus-priority lane system, are welcome options, as compared to permanently barricaded BRT system. Restriction of access for private vehicles to congested routes during peak hours, including total ban when required, should also be seen as welcome.

Opening up bus transport services for healthy competition, under the watchful eye of the regulator, has independent merits. Support trade-offs are not quite warranted.

And, I can't see why all of these don't fit into the discussions on this thread. Whether at EcoSpace or elsewhere, the problems are largely common, and solutions too - it's all about mobility.

Muralidhar Rao
Naveen's picture

Jungle raj on roads forever

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We are sadly still debating solutions when most already know what will work - & can be put in place quickly. BRT on ORR is an urgent priority, period. As IDS correctly mentioned, a commuter rail track also passes nearby & can easily be used with some augmentation. Having trains & buses that enjoy uninterrupted right of way are the priorities. Instead, we have stupid traffic police & silly city planners trying to address street congestion issues that will never end since traffic will always keep increasing in the absense of efficient public transport since it operates in mixed traffic.
idontspam's picture

Get a perspective

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Opening up bus transport services for healthy competition

FIrst bringing in privatisation as a panacea to a bandwidth issue is like asking to see a dentist for a foot problem. It was irrelevant to the issue at hand. Which only means you dont even bother to read what is being written. Clearly just spouting this rubbish again and again quoting water, electricity etc isnt going to make it true. Its interesting you quote london transport to follow, so read up about their privatisation results here 

and I quote "If bus privatisation was a failure, rail privatisation was an unmitigated  - and expensive – disaster."

 

 

Vasanth's picture

During Bundh - Everyone enjoyed quick commute to office

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Yesterday there was minimum traffic, and a daily 1hr 45 mins of my commute reduced to 50 mins. Everyone in our office shuttle were so happy. Lots of people were working from home, so there were very less number of cars and no buses.

We should start observing car free days and making the public perceive how beneficial it is without cars. Private vehicles, both cars and 2 wheelers should be charged parking fees within campuses and promote usage of office shuttles even for non registered users, bicycles or BMTC.

 

 

xs400's picture

More Bundhs Please?

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@Vasanth

The quicker commute was due to the buses staying away!

Given that BMTC is making huge losses, wouldn't it be better to shut them down? Same for BMRCL and KSRTC. We can get rid of everyone from the minister down. The money saved can go towards reducing / eliminating the cess on fuel and taxes.

Lets accept that there will never be efficient and cheap public transport in Bengaluru. Lets make our politicians' job easier by simply eliminating such a service in our country. One less problem for the rulers - no need for them to put up a charade to make us look 'developed'.

idontspam's picture

More bundhs indeed

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The quicker commute was 55% of bangalores trips not being made by public transport carrying majority of the people. If they all got cars because public transport was not available forget about anything called commute. Im surprised by the intelligence in the analysis that concludes bandh scenario will solve the commute problem. We should be wary of taking inputs from people who cant even analyse problems properly.

It looks like a handful of people in cars who constitute 5% of the modal share are so smitten by surrounding themselves with 1 tonne metal monsters that they think they can speak for the rest of the population on forums like these, Including such brainwaves as getting private mafioso to run bus services.

Vasanth's picture

How about stopping cars one day?

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@xs400, how about stopping cars one day and see effect. Why so much of fuel waste. 5km/litre bus can carry nearly 100 people whereas 12km/litre car carries only 1 person.

What if apple goes into losses and stop producing iphones and Macs. All the white collared people will start crying that they cannot live without it whereas there are alternatives for it. On the other hand, thousands of people are dependent on BMTC who cannot afford a vehicle, even if they can afford cannot maintain and drive.

Unless we come out of such thinking, the space infront of ecospace will never be jam free.

 

vatsan007's picture

Private traffic regulation

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We can also think of allowing private vehicles with even and odd registration numbers alternatively. This should also reduce traffic to some extent. I suppose this is currently followed in some streets in Beijing, China.

 

- Srivatsan

Vasanth's picture

Light Rail and BRT GoK not taking anywhere

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The DPR prepared by a UK firm as assigned by BARL (Bangalore Airport Rail Limited) and GoK is not seeing light of the day:

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/bangalore/dpr-for-light-rail-transit-ready/article5340139.ece

http://indiatransportportal.com/bangalore-sees-delays-in-its-light-rail-transit-system-23173

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/244385/light-rail-may-score-over.html

Nor the BRT.

This Light Rail between Bannerghatta Road to Hebbal could be extended till Silkboard or the BRT could be made Elevated at parts  such as between Hebbal and Yeshwantpur and at grade where there is width.

Metro in Phase 3 would take another 10 years to get started. 

 

murali772's picture

ZipGo - a possible solution

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@Vasanth - promote usage of office shuttles even for non registered users

Apparently, that's what this ZipGo is all about - will be interesting to see how it develops.

Muralidhar Rao
xs400's picture

Conveyor belt?

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Bangalore is a tiny city. Most distances are very short. With the kind of population density it has a flat escalator type "travelator" (used in airports)  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_walkway

would be ideal. But then, we don't really want the problems to end, do we?

idontspam's picture

Dedicated corridor on the surface

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Vasanth, Surface light rail is different from light rail you have quoted, you may want to read the approach note here. Putting trains on pillars is useless, destructive and waste of money, especially small ones like metro & mono etc.

Also, Im not too worried about BRT taking off as long as there is a dedicated corridor built for all buses which can be shared by surface light rail. 

Vasanth's picture

Let us push for BRTS on ORR

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IDS, got your points. Let us start with BRTS on ORR between Silkboard and Hebbal as quoted by CTTP report as well. People should stop day dreaming about having Metro here, only our kids would be able to ride it.

Ahmedabad has pioneered in BRTS and they are offering consultancy just like Delhi Metro offers consultancy to Metro rail. They have taken the consultation of South American experts who have pioneered BRTS.

As I stated in earlier thread  here on various types of BRTS , we would need a closed BRTS system of Gold Standard. A major challenge would be KR Puram Junction. This can be done in 2 years. 

IDS and Naveen, let us know how to take it forward. I sent multiple emails to Manjula madam, BMTC & IDD with no responses. Had to fight a lot on internal discussions itself and wasted time  as you can see in the thread :)

Naveen's picture

ORR BRT seems too late?

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I think BRT on ORR may be a little too late now as the road has been taken over by marauding car wallahs. Which is why its important to reserve bus lanes on any (& all) new primary roads at an early stage before it gets taken over by private vehicles. Traffic signal delays at Emc2 is already huge & is set to get worse. If only they had worked on BRT when the flyovers were built, we would not have seen this situation now.

Now, they'll start saying metro will be built on ORR - & it'll take for ever to build it, making life miserable for commuters for decades.

Vasanth's picture

Enemies are Car,Metro and Private Buses...

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We have to fight so much, one is car lobby, other is Metro lobby and the third is a very small group saying introduce private buses and problem will be solved. 

Since Industrial Elite People Use Cars, Government would take a step back as the bus users are not Elite and only Polite!

Second is the Metro fans who only think Metro is the solution for all problems. They do not see there is lack of co-ordination from BMTC without which Metro cannotI become successful.Even Government says yes for that since it takes less space of road compared to BRT with minimum disruption to Elite People's Car Travel. No one realizes it takes another 10+ sweet years to build Metro.

End to Bangalore Traffic woes using  Sustainable Mass Transit is not there in the corner.....

Neither BRT nor Commuter Rail is seeing light of the day.

murali772's picture

enough has been said on BRT, unconvincing all the same

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getting private mafioso to run bus services.

I had stated here that I had begun to see the so-called 'think-tanks' as part of the 'confederation of vested interest groups' working towards perpetuating the status quo. Apparently, they are far more than that. Beyond that, I do not wish to repeat myself.

At a CiSTUP workshop, a few years back, a certain gentleman made a PPT presentation on Ahmedabad/ Baroda JanMarg, and other models of BRT. When a CiSTUP research associate questioned him on the suitability of the model for Bengaluru, he was totally at a loss. Thereafter, he just vanished - says quite something, right! Apparently, he was from an event management company - that's professional approach for you.

From the times when Dr A S Joglekar used to be a regular on Praja (he was vehemently opposed to BRT, and nobody dare brand him a lobbyist, least of all a mafioso), we have been debating BRT. A summary of it may be accessed here. I'll end with the following quote from a study on the subject by a research team from Centre for Urban Equity, CEPT University, Ahmedabad (accessible here): "The study raises the pertinent question of whether public transport ought to be viewed as a technological fix or as part of a wider solution of urban or social issues."

I'd now like to keep off the sbject, and concentrate on other equally important issues.

Muralidhar Rao
Vasanth's picture

BRT in Mumbai Eastern and Western Expressways

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Mumbai is planning on BRTS on eastern and western expressways:

http://www.visionmumbai.org/images/projects/feasibility%20report%20on%20brts.pdf

Our Tumkur Road and Hosur Road expressways could have been done similarly and Metro be used in core city.

Atleast the elevated highway the Congress Government is planning from Silkboard to Hebbal and Jnanabarathi to Whitefield should keep this aspect while design before cars occupies all space.

More 'opposers' than 'proposers' for sustainable transport.

 

 

 

Vasanth's picture

Arguments go on without answers..

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@Murali Sir, My question to you or Dr. ASJ or whomsoever concerned is the 2km stretch between Jayadeva to Silkboard can be easily covered in less than 10 mins without traffic. But it takes 30 - 45 mins in peak hours. How can you travel in atleast 15mins without constructing any elevated structure like the proposed ones with a sustainable transport? Private buses would not fly over the traffic as you proposed earlier, rather they may run over it.

If you are able to answer this question in a convincing solution,  myself, IDS and Navin will join to campaign and implement whatever you for whatever sustainable transport you propose.

 

Naveen's picture

No point

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@Vasanth, "urban land is costly", in other words private buses are cheaper & they can also solve each & every problem.

Tatas Birlas etc are ready to run buses & are waiting for govt's invitation to fix all the commuting problems in all cities in India.

Other countries have been very stupid not to have discovered the potential of private buses & their Tatas & Birlas so far!
idontspam's picture

we have been debating

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we have been debating BRT. 

No we were not... only you were. We were talking about dedicated corridor for buses & surface trains. Like I said you dont understand what is being discussed, you are only discussing whats in your head, privatisation. Probably a stint in an event management company is in order.

murali772's picture

priority lane fine; not dedicated corridor

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No we were not... only you were. We were talking about dedicated corridor for buses & surface trains.

Dedicated corridor is a variation of BRT, even if you don't want to call it by that name. And, Dr A S Joglekar's blog's (started in June '08) caption itself was "Why India’s Bus Rapid Transit Projects don’t excite me" (check here).

As far as I am concerened, priority lane is fine, but not dedicated lane or BRT.

 

Muralidhar Rao
vatsan007's picture

Mere lane marking doesn't work in India

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Marking a lane as priority lane and people following it --> Goodness me, miracles don't happen. In fact, on the stretch of ORR from Agara Junction to Iblur Junction, traffic police have already marked the left most service lane as a "BUS LANE -- ONLY FOR BMTC". Hardly this gets followed. Only brute force works. 

ORR stretch is getting worse with each passing day. With more and more office space getting added every month, not sure where this will get to. Some tangible action needs to be done fast.

 

- Srivatsan

idontspam's picture

As far as I am concerened Im

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As far as I am concerened

Im not losing sleep over your concern or lack of it

Vasanth's picture

BUS LANE -- ONLY FOR BMTC

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As Vatsan pointed rightly, painted bus lanes doesn't work in India. A country where people do not wait signals, can you expect them not to goto a painted lane? Again, this is one form of BRTS itself and nothing special.

Just like they got loan for Metro Phase 2, if they can plan, we can get loan and get started with BRTS if Government makes up mind.

 

Vasanth's picture

Delhi's BRT failure due to simple bus lanes with segregation

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More here

This article is by Dario Hidalgo, the BRT pioneer of South America.

Vasanth's picture

Road Congestion Being Blamed on BRTS

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We have seen the congestion in Bangalore like shown in the picture above. If BRT is started, all the road users will start complaining about BRTS, especially 'the lobbyists'. Vote bank politics of India just wants vote from everyone, to get that done, they can make statements such as 'scrapping BRTS'. This is a report from Delhi about the blame game.

vatsan007's picture

Car Free Days (Not CARE FREE DAYS)

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Take a look at this link -- Worth Emulating...

http://indianexpress.com/...

Why can't this be done in Bengaluru? It should be tried......

 

 

- Srivatsan

Vasanth's picture

Good Idea to make people realize congestion caused by cars

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Vatsan, this is a good idea. People are so much addicted, and also some people want to make style statement by going in big cars every day to office. Some think it is fun.

It is crazy that because of some one's stytle statement and fun, everyone has to suffer and this class of people lobby the Government!!

When we do such initiative, people will enroll company transport or use public transport. 

vatsan007's picture

Company incentives for using office shuttle or public transport

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In addition to this, company authorities can come up with incentives (colllection of points every month and encash it later for a gift, etc...) for employees who use office shuttle or public transport. I'm not sure whether companies get sops on taking green initiatives. 

- Srivatsan

Vasanth's picture

German Bank ready to give loan for BRTS from Silkboard to Hebbal

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http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/bangalore/brts-funding-agreement-in-limbo/article7727595.ece

 

Chief secratary should travel on this stretch at evening 6PM and then see which is low hanging fruit

vatsan007's picture

BDA to remake ORR

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Saw this article in Hindu.

http://www.thehindu.com/n...

 

People awake only when it becomes neck-deep and hopefully a scalable solution is found.

 

 

 

- Srivatsan

Vasanth's picture

Re: BDA to remake ORR

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However, the ORR was designed with two separate flyovers with a two-lane carriageway in between, envisaged as dedicated bus lanes when Bus Rapid Transit System (BRTS) would be developed. Though the BRTS proposal has now been dropped, BDA is working towards designating them as dedicated bus lanes and barring buses from plying on the flyover

 

This looks crazy to me. Definitely a car savvy person has planned this to give up a lane to BRTS as well as making buses to struggle even more by not using flyovers!!! 

Already when we use city bus near Agara, we have to spend 20 minutes to cross whereas cars will zip over flyover, this will be repeated on every flyover so that only they run buses for namesake.

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