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How is Metro Ph II best done?

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Metro Rail

Metro ph II is ready to kick off soon with the approvals coming in from Delhi. There is still lot of discussions pending on the utility and the routes. With the change in ledership there is a possible  opportunity to start discussions to optimize routes. The current PH II route with stations is in the below link:

http://bmrc.co.in/pdf/phase2/phase2forweb.pdf

Broadly it has:

1. Extension of Phase I reaches

  • Kengeri
  • Whitefield
  • Thalghattapura/NICE road jn
  • Nice road jn on Tumkur road

2. RV road - Bommasandra line

3. Gotigere - Nagavara line

Coming to the financing..the majority would come from soft loans from Japan. As the kannada saying goes "ಹಾಸಿಗೆ  ಇದ್ದಷ್ಟು  ಕಾಲು  ಚಾಚು " we are still a poor country with limited resources. Hence its prudent to plan our expenditures for maximum benefit.

From the above list I feel that the Kengeri, Thalghattapura and Tumkur road extensions are not of much significance and would not ideally contribute to better passenger traffic. Hence going little slow on them or even moving them out of PH II plan maybe something worth exploring..

Please share your thoughts on phase II plan.

 

Comments

srinidhi's picture

reviving koramangala plans..

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There was a plan earlier to connect Koramangala with the IIMB-Nagawara line which was going UG from Dairy circle.

What are the advantages of the proposed deviation?
 
• Koramangala, a high population density area with multiple hospitals/educational institutions/commercial area, 
 
will get connected.
 
• Madivala gets connectivity and HSR lay out with feeders
 
• This will avoid metro line along routes with cemetries and burial places
 
We have already seen modifications to the DMRC DPR bible by BMRC at Hoodi junction on the Byp-Whitefield extension. The Koramangala suggestion above is much more meanigful than that. Hope the authorities take note of this and change the way people travel in this city!

 

 

idontspam's picture

Koramangala connection

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Any connection to koramangala should touch NGV, BMTC depot, sony world & then thru 6th & 7th block back to marigowda rd for maximum impact. Stations at viveknagar, NGV/BMTC, SOnyworld, somewhere in 5th block, Madivala/Forum jn then dairy circle. 

But if you really want to be prudent dont do phase 2 at all. Put money where it can serve a more inclusive section of the population first. Knowing koramangala you wont get land to even put an exit to an underground station unless you pay thru the nose. You cant do cut & cover stations.

Naveen's picture

More of the Wish List!

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I feel that the Kengeri, Thalghattapura and Tumkur road extensions are not of much significance and would not ideally contribute to better passenger traffic.

Sorry, again what you 'feel' is not backed by any evidence. See forecast from the same link you provided:

When the anticipated section loading is abt 25,000 & traffic is abt 7 lakhs on each line by 2021 (& showing increasing trends), there is a very strong case for metro.

There was a plan earlier to connect Koramangala with the IIMB-Nagawara line which was going UG from Dairy circle.

The "plan" was your own wishlist, never from BMRC or any authentic city official. On the one hand, you say metro is "darshan", whilst on the other you are recommending the route to go back & forth whilst poorly connecting a corner of koramangala. This needless increase in commute distance (& time) for all other passengers on the route is undesirable as was the need to connect Hoodi by increasing route distance - it could easily have been connected with feeder buses. Besides, it may not be technically feasible due to sharp turn & land constraints, as already discussed & admitted by you.

Why is it that only metro cannot go past cemetries & burial places? What about buses? Shouldn't they also avoid cemetries & burial places too? Going by your logic, buses plying on hosur rd (near wilson garden electric crematorium) must all be re-routed or stopped, shantinagar TTMC has to be shifted elsewhere, buses on kuvempu rd & a whole lot of routes with cemetries and burial places must also be re-routed!!

Any connection to koramangala should touch NGV, BMTC depot, sony world & then thru 6th & 7th block back to marigowda rd for maximum impact.

This is sensible - routing should cut through the interiors & not just skim a corner. Koramangala may have been left out in ph-1 & 2, but it will surely be covered in future phases, probably ph-3. It is not possible to cover every locality by metro in one or two phases - we will probably see phase after phase to connect various areas (like delhi is doing).

But if you really want to be prudent dont do phase 2 at all. Put money where it can serve a more inclusive section of the population first.

Your reference to suburban rail is just as valid as it is for metro - & both will serve all sections equally well, though suburban rail fares are being kept artificially low - I'm sure this is going to change in the years ahead as IR is incurring huge losses year after year.

On the one hand, everyone is cursing authorities about poor commuting options & bangalore traffic & on the other, we have this demand for rollback of metro ph-2. Its clearly obvious that they should pursue all modes of mass transit & not sit back or delay any of them, irrespective of how much they actually intend investing in each - this also includes BRT, for which they have not made any efforts other than some token announcements that also seem to have become muted, of late.

srinidhi's picture

@naveen

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The forecast provided is also a 'feel' not based on real numbers. I live near mysore road and have studied at RVCE and I would say with the traffic I see almost everyday, Kengeri has best connections currently with busses and can do without metro in the immediate future(4-5 years). I never said dont do those lines..I only said take it slow! Btw if Kengeri is connected with CRS will the projected numbers still hold good?

Yes, the detour was always on my wish list and no where else. But When they could plan out a sharp turn at Hoodi..it should not be difficult to figure out how to do it on Hosur road..btw from Sathya's list, St Johns/Jyoti NIvas/Forum mall/Koramangala Industrial estate/madivala will still need to be catered to!

routing should cut through the interiors & not just skim a corner 

Like how it was done for Malleshwaram in reach 3?

My only thought is instead of racing ahead with metro everywhere..its better to step back prioritize and have an inclusive plan where all modes of transport work in tandem.

Naveen's picture

The 'race' is always slow

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Forecast is derived from projections based on simulations & modelling. It is far more accurate & reliable than what individuals may wish or 'feel'. We are not talking about immediate future of 4-5 years here. Even ph-1 completion is still some two years away. The extensions will take 5 years after ph-1 has been completed.

Kengeri may be connected by suburban rail, but loads & frequencies may be insufficient to cater to needs of that time. So, your suggestion to go slow is unnecessary since it will be slow anyway even if they 'race' - mass transport takes lot of time to finance & build, hence the need to keep working on all options. The city has already suffered enough by going slow in the past. Authorities should be pushing for every available option rather than pay heed to ill-informed 'go slow' & 'step back' prescriptions.

Reach-1 is not catering much to Malleswaram since priority was Rajajinagar, Mahalaxmi layout, etc which had much higher traffic. There are stations at Srirampura & Sampige road & malleswaram has suburban rail cutting right through it. We have recommended an additional station at Subramanyanagar for this reason - hope authorities push suburban rail hard too & provide additional stations as recommended.

srinidhi's picture

still want it racing to ITPL!

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Of the extensions, the ITPL/whitefield one is the most crucial one..all other 3 extensions are very well connected by highways now..its the ITPL link which has poor contectivity by road and has most metro traffic already exisitng and not just estimates!

Hope that line work is taken on a war footing and gets done the first!

Also for stations, the below space saving design by L&T should be mandated:

This design is also used by L&T for our metro stations and can be seen at KR road..its awesome..only wish this desig n was used in other metro stations especially the reach 1 stations like trinity which has ugly monolithic pillars everywhere!

Naveen's picture

Incorrect perceptions

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ITPL/whitefield one is the most crucial one..all other 3 extensions are very well connected by highways now..its the ITPL link which has poor contectivity by road and has most metro traffic already exisitng and not just estimates!

ITPL extn & RV-Bommasandra lines are on priority for BMRC, but they will still take time to build, even if they start parallel construction along with ph-1 when GoI approval is received.

Other extensions will take even longer & will become necessary as per projections - they are not estimates by an individual, but based on studies. CTTP had also recommended the same. The existense of highways with fewer cars may have misled you into believing lesser daily trips. Actually, traffic is even higher in all other directions, only difference being that more people travel on buses in the other three directions throughout the day whilst on ITPL road, the number of travelers by cars is higher during peak hours leading to excessive crowding on the road - this may have distorted your perceptions.

srinidhi's picture

what about your perceptions?

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ITPL extn & RV-Bommasandra lines are on priority for BMRC

Where did you get that perception? 

Other extensions will take even longer

Why? They ITPL extn is longer than all the other 3 put together..see the BMRCL pdf

Actually, traffic is even higher in all other directions, only difference being that more people travel on buses in the other three directions throughout the day whilst on ITPL road, the number of travelers by cars is higher during peak hours leading to excessive crowding on the road

I never talked of car users..BMTC has the highest concentration of Volvo busses on this route . There are also the ITPL busses and other shuttles taking up road space. Along with offices, there are larger residential clusters than all other extensions put together..which is a clear indication for the immediate need for mass transport..

 

Vasanth's picture

Extend atleast till K R Puram as Phase 1 of Reach 1 Extension

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Basically the Hanging Bridge is a major problem on Outer Ring Road and that is why the current line which ends at BYPL is not so favourable for commuters. People are using Chennai bound trains and alighting at KR Puram / ITPL.

Best  thing is to extend till KR Puram as Phase 1 of Reach 1 Extension and then to take it further. Probably if they can start now, by the time, underground work finishes, Metro would be far more meaningful for IT hub. Lots of people would travel from Majestic till KR Puram.

I tweeted this to former MD, looks like that he did not take it seriously. 

Naveen's picture

Bizzare list of complaints

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Sri,

Press & BMRC had already announced long back that GoK was keen to start the RV rd-Bommasandra line on priority - read that same pdf again, last para on the 1st page: "As regards extension of North-South corridor to Electronic City - Bommasandra Industrial Area, Government of Karnataka has desired that this line may be taken up even when Phase-I is in progress".

Also, BMRC completed soil tests & initial ground work for the ITPL extension from Byappanahalli much before others & plan to get work started here first, as confirmed by them - see this link. This had also been reported in the press when ph-2 was announced, but I'm unable to find news report clips on google now: "bmrcl managing director n sivasailam, said the proposed elevated 15.5-km stretch, is crucial as it connects several it companies besides residential areas along the route".

I don't go by perceptions nor do I draw conclusions based on my own wish lists. You do not seem to follow news reports closely & have stated following that sound meaningless:

1)   DMRC routes are incorrect & BMRC must not follow their DPR 'bible', its success with 23 lakh odd passengers is by luck;
2)   The new routes commissioned by DMRC are carrying smaller percentage of passengers than others & are therefore failures;
3)   Commuter rail for Delhi would have been better (though it has been running for some 38 years & is widely acknowledged as a total failure carrying a mere 5000 passengers);
4)   DMRC routes are too long since metro sitting arrangement is suitable only for 30-odd minutes;
5)   DMRC must limit its routes within Delhi state (even though dense inhabitation & urbanization stretches across whole of NCR);
6)   Namma metro is 'darshan', however routes must keep deviating instead of following shortest routes into CBDs (eg. Forum mall, Hoodi);
7)   Forum mall deviation would connect Madivala /HSR by feeders (when infact the RV-Bommasandra line will provide far better access);
8)   Metro must not pass beside cemetries & burial places;
9)   Biayappanahalli is too close to CBD for Metro depot, which must be shifted out to far flung area since commercial establishments are better there;
10) Three of four extensions in ph-2 "are not of much significance and would not ideally contribute to better passenger traffic" when studies reveal otherwise;
11) Projections & recommendation from study reports like CTTP & by DMRC/BMRC is incorrect - "forecast provided is also a 'feel' not based on real numbers".

I'm afraid these arguments are not at all convincing. I think BMRC must be blamed for only valid concerns like poor co-ordination for roads restoration after work, slow progress with station works, neglect of workers by contractors even after HC directive, previous MD not very public-friendly, etc, not for bogus issues listed above.

srinidhi's picture

"As regards extension of

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"As regards extension of North-South corridor to Electronic City - Bommasandra Industrial Area, Government of Karnataka has desired that this line may be taken up even when Phase-I is in progress"..

This doesnt mean anything as the Phase I completion is still 2 more years away and a broad statement like the one above will hold good for all other routes/extensions as well.

Phase II discussions started as long ago as 2010 right here on Praja itself..nothing has moved much since then..why? Probably because of phase I issues like:

  • Delay with calling tenders for UG sections 
  • Delay in reach 1, with Navyuga failing and no monitoring of BMRC
  • Infamous wrong design of curves in reach I resulting in slowing of the train
  • The infamous 66 metre span delay
  • Cost escalations
  • Mantri mall station issue
  • BMRCL was busy building houses for displaced slum dwellers instead of concentrating on building and running its trains

Of all the list of my items in your comment, I still stand for them and do not consider DMRC an absolute authority for deciding what metro should be for Blr..or that matter any other city in India..

Btw I dont know about you, but I can claim to be a more regular user of metro for my commute to work on the reach 1 and plan to use the full stretch once Ph I opens..so its in my ineterest to see it become the backbone of this city..

Naveen's picture

Not "broad statement"

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Ph-1 completion maybe 2 years away, but it is not a "broad statement" as generalized by you. What it means is this: RV-Bommasandra line construction may commence as soon as GoI approval has been received, irrespective of what the status of Ph-1 is - construction will begin even before Ph-1 has been completed. Other routes /extensions will not have the same priority - this should be amply clear to anyone reading it, but you wish not to intrepret it for what it clearly means.

Ph-2 discussions on praja in 2010 does not mean anything. Nothing can move until DPRs are approved by GoK & GoI & all approvals have been received, else construction cannot begin as there will be funding issues besides violation of protocol - this is beyond the control of BMRC.

BMRC ventured into metro construction for the first time & they have had their share of problems from other agencies - strange that you choose to conveniently blame them for everything without having followed what actually transpired:

1) Delay with calling tenders for UG sections - tenders had been called & they were dependent on GoI releasing their portion of funds since amounts were huge, but GoI had delayed release of funds. So, second set of tenders were called due to the long delay.
2) Delay in reach 1 with contractor is not a rare issue - it happens all the time for various projects & your statement about "no monitoring of BMRC" appears to be another meaningless accusation. They did cancel the contract after following due process of giving reasonable time to contractor for bucking up.
3) Infamous wrong design of curves in reach I resulting in slowing of the train - land acquisition issues & protests by CMH traders was the obstacle. Even now, CMH road remains narrow for this reason.
4) The infamous 66 metre span delay -- the delay is due to railways who insisted on huge payments, including compensation for slowing down of trains during construction & all bridge parameter approvals by them.
5) Cost escalations - nothing new or strange about it. Every mega infrastructure project in the world faces these issues, especially with obstacles posed by other agencies as in India - the result of which will be cost escalations.
6) Mantri mall station issue - BBMP has gone to court for this rather than sorting it out speedily.
7) BMRCL was busy building houses for displaced slum dwellers instead of concentrating on building and running its trains - relocation of project effected persons is an absolute & necessary first step before any project is taken up. Kudos to them for doing this!!

Of all agencies in India, DMRC was the only one with experience in preparing DPRs & delivering successful & timely system construction. So, it wasn't unusual for BMRC to have gone to them. Perhaps in later phases, they may start doing it themselves with experience. I dont think DMRC was ever an "absolute authority for deciding what metro should be for Blr" - their capacity has been that of a consultant.

Sorry, but your using metro & interest in it seems insufficient to objectively criticize BMRC since you are only partly aware of what actually took place on the ground but seem hell bent on clinging to your set of accusations, weird as they sound & without proper analysis.

srinidhi's picture

My dejection over priority

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My dejection over priority also comes from the interaction that I had with Mr Sivasailam as recent as about 2 months ago where he mentioned that there was no special priority and all lines were being equally looked at..

Btw looking at an old post..guess you had different thouhts abt ph II routing back then..

About delay with calling tenders for UG sections, the reason as I read in the press as well as from BMRCL is that with the first set of tenders for full UG sections, the contractors quoted big numbers and thats when they went splitting the work into smaller pieces and re-tendered the work and got more reasonable prices..it was the same set of contractors bidding..so wouldnt it have worked better if the whole costing was reworked with better discussions on the original tender itself? One would never know.. but that needed some one who would speak!

About taking out Navayuga from MG road, it was never initiated by BMRCL..it was the state govt under pressure from public which asked BMRCL to check on it..a better frequent monitoring from BMRCL would have helped avoid the delay

About 66 mts, lets take the example of CRS, arent we trying to take help from everyone including the Rlys minister  from state? Was Muniyappa or others un-available for BMRCL to resolve the issues.or rather was he approached at all?

Cash strapped BMRC wanted to do a PPP with stations and Mantri came forward with claim on encroached land..isnt that something to be probed?

Like KIADB buys land for metro..let the slum clearance board do its job to rehablilitate..why build duplex houses which were eventually rented out by the occupants who were already well off?

This can go on..but again its raking history..now its time to look fwd and get back on what needs to be done..lets hope the new head is more receptive and gets the job done better!

 

Naveen's picture

So, blaming was due to dejection

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What you keep insisting as priority need not be the same for Mr Sivasailam or the city. IT routes are not the only ones that need priority, all routes do & some have far more traffic & priority (like ph-1: Majestic, City mkt, Chikpet, Yeshwanthpur, Peenya, Rajajinagar, etc). He must have stated what he did since his job requires him not to favor any section or one set of routes.

What is priority & what isn't must be dictated by study reports & not private fancies or wishlists. If priority is to be accorded to routes other than what traffic study comes out with, it is for GoK to decide which they seem to have done - they call the shots & take the responsibility, not Sivasailam or BMRC. So, your ire against MD for this is also misplaced.

My earlier post was based on the assumption that metro may wind down after two phases leaving some sections out, but now we know that there are plans to add more lines, which I think is needed rather than take the routes round & round the way you insist, whilst also calling metro "darshan" where it suits you.

All contractors did quote very high rates for UG section tenders initially before splitting them up & it isn't something that could have been resolved "with better discussions on the original tender". The so-called "discussions" that you prescribe may have taken much longer & it is doubtful if they would resolve anything at all the way splitting up did.

The point is that they were short of funds & dependent on GoI contribution to commence UG sections. Unfortunately, GoI has been releasing funds promptly only for Delhi metro, not others. There were delays from GoI side even for release of funds for Mumbai metro. So, blindly blaming BMRC for every delay without going deeper as to where problems lie is just a convenient way to bash them wherever possible which appears to be your intention.

You speak about Muniappa & SWR - how much help had they been for commuter rail? The progress so far has been only because of DULT & their commisioning a Rites report, not Muniappa nor SWR. Is it not possible that BMRC also had similar experiences with SWR & Muniappa?

PPP station with Mantri is nothing unusual - Mumbai, Hyderabad & Gurgaon metros are entirely PPP. Do they all need to be "probed"? Press had already reported terms about PPP. If you are interested in fuller PPP terms, an RTI can be filed rather than hurling wild accusations about misappropriation without any basis.

why build duplex houses which were eventually rented out by the occupants who were already well off?

Already well off? Why were they living in slums then? How many have rented out their houses? Any source for this information or just another bogus claim to add to your list? Great going - so, according to you, the speedy completion of metro on the routes prescribed by you is far more important than rehab of project effected persons, especially poorer sections. Fyi - it is not up to BMRC to order slum clearance board to carry out rehab (KSDB's primary job is to ensure hygienic conditions & provide basic amenities in slums). This decision is for GoK to take.

It looks like because of the so-called "dejection over priority" that does not meet your immediate commuting needs, you are willing to say anything & everything against BMRC rather than properly analyse issues & accept that city's interests lie ahead of your private interests.

srinidhi's picture

make up your mind sir..

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thought some where above you mentioned there was priority for the ITPL line!

The so-called "discussions" that you prescribe may have taken much longer

how to predict the efficacy even without trying?..the same with the 66 mts span..muniyappa was just an example..there were so many other avenues which could have been tried..including using the press/media effectively

I never saif PPP was wrong..I mentioned the land encroachment which was being done..

U said it ureself "This decision is for GoK to take." so they should have been left to decide...btw I personally knew a friend who's parents owned a dwelling there and had rented it just like most others..probably you might have read about the latest ejipura slum fiasco..where those who were on rent are asking for rehab now..

My 'private interests' was being opened for debate, even now I try to convince myself with the thought that eventually the KMF diary will make way for extensive office space(its already on the cards)..and so will MICO factory land(thats on the cards too), like how ITC is developing theirs..and it will add to the success of the current PH II routing!

 

Naveen's picture

More of BMRC bashing

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thought some where above you mentioned there was priority for the ITPL line!

Yeah - GoK took responsibility & BMRC declared the priority after that. However, generally unless study reports support such priority with higher traffic than elsewhere, it is not acceptable for BMRC to take such decisions unilaterally since it would be favoritism to help particular sections.

how to predict the efficacy even without trying?..the same with the 66 mts span..muniyappa was just an example..there were so many other avenues which could have been tried..including using the press/media effectively

How are you sure they did not try the "many other avenues which could have been tried..including using the press/media effectively"? What happened with CMH traders? And Hasiru-usiru? Was press not used as also their web-pages? You seem unaware & are again throwing up rants to justify more of your BMRC bashing.
The delay in UG tenders was due to GoI finances not being received in time. Imaginary & wishful "discussions" that did not take place is irrelevant & has no place when BMRC managed to secure much lower rates by splitting up sections.

Further, how many "avenues" that we have tried for commuter rail proved succesful? Has press helped at all? Which other "avenues" should BMRC have used? Agreed Sivasailam turned somewhat hostile towards public during later years, but he was still giving tweets & press conferences, isn't It?

land encroachment which was being done

Please read up more carefully before levelling allegations - Mantri had encroached on SWR /BBMP land for stocking metro station construction materials since they were building the station & not BMRC. BMRC was not involved with it as the land was not in any way associated with construction of the station or the viaduct. It was a dispute between the developer and the Railways /BBMP, but you choose to slam BMRC for it in your usual BMRC-bashing style since they did not pay heed to your wishlist.

"This decision is for GoK to take." so they should have been left to decide

Are you suggesting that GoK did not decide at all? If so, how did BMRC undertake the rahab & spend money to do it? Or are you suggesting that that they did it at their own cost? What fantasy!

friend who's parents owned a dwelling there and had rented it just like most others...ejipura slum fiasco

So what? It is their property & they are free to do what they wish - after all, they deserve it having been ousted for the project. Are other property owners not renting out their houses? Ejipura slum fiasco has nothing to do with project-related rehab.

My 'private interests' was being opened for debate, even now I try to convince myself with the thought that eventually the KMF diary will make way for extensive office space(its already on the cards)..and so will MICO factory land(thats on the cards too), like how ITC is developing theirs..and it will add to the success of the current PH II routing!

You can keep day-dreaming & counting cards, but its grossly unfair when you start bashing institutions when things do not turn out according to your "private interests".

abidpqa's picture

Suggestions

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Suggestions

  1. Height of pillars. Mandate that no pillar is more than 50 feet high. Higher pillars is weaker structure and unnecessary increase in costs.
  2. Express lines.  Now the Metro is only 2 lines which is not enough for running express services going across the city without stops. Metro can build lines through less populated areas running across city.
  3. Lines within CBD.  Metro is best suited for developed areas. So concentrate new lines only inside so called CBD, also Electronic city, ITPL. Do not connect suburbs, leave it to light rail, CRS,
  4. Connect Kammanhalli Hennur.  There seems to be no plans for this. This place really needs connectivity.
  5. Concentrate more on above the ground lines. And also reduce the depth of underground lines.  The Majestic station seems too deep.
  6. Solving problems like Jayadeva. In my opinion, Jayadeva hospital losing parking space is the better options. Generally, there needs to be more mechanisms solving such disputes. It just cannot be the Metro's decision only.
  7. Remove RTI exemptions!! Including all corporate tenders discussion etc.
srinidhi's picture

 it is not acceptable for

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 it is not acceptable for BMRC to take such decisions unilaterally since it would be favoritism to help particular sections.

Oh wow..so does that explain the ire of GoK cos of disregard for their words?,

Mantri had encroached on SWR /BBMP land for stocking metro station construction materials since they were building the station & not BMRC

So does it work like in case of an appartment where one wants to buy a house, the builder encroaches govt land and the appartment buyers will not/should not be concerned abt it?

About 66 mts, we are talking of govt organisations and not shop keepers and there is way the beareaucrats working things out with politicos..it doesnt also compare with our effort on CRS as we are just a 'civic society'..more apt comparisons are with the CRS initiative Chandrababu Naidu did for HYD when he was in power with oposition at the centre..

It is their property & they are free to do what they wish - after all, they deserve it having been ousted for the project.

Renting? the houses were built free of cost for them cos they were supposed to be EWS..it was probably the former MD's personal agenda to use his earlier experience in rural housing..on the outset it was a heart warming news but contributed to misplaced priorities for metro..

CRS is mostly still our private interests, its cos of our conviction that it is the right thing to be doing, we want to push it as a public interest..so was my case too and I just opened it for discussions..about my cards..heres the statement from Bosch about their movement and I am not getting the one for the Dairy movement but I will let you know when I can find it..

Btw this post of mine is going no where and nothing positive is coming of it and it was not my intention to bash anyone..so cosidering the uselessness of these comments and posts, I have voted to remove it myself..

Naveen's picture

Yes, waste of time for fancy thoughts

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Oh wow..so does that explain the ire of GoK cos of disregard for their words?

BMRC is bound by orders from GoK - I dont know what you mean by their ire.

So does it work like in case of an appartment where one wants to buy a house, the builder encroaches govt land and the appartment buyers will not/should not be concerned abt it?

Your meaningless allegations continue -- Mantri has not put up any construction on land belonging to others nor did they intend to. They had used SWR's land for storing construction materials which was objected to by SWR & they demanded rent. In the case of an apt buyer, as long as there is no encroachment of the building construction itself on other properties, the buyer need not worry about where the developer chooses to stock building materials or how he deals with such issues. It is up to the developer to organize where he prefers to store materials & may have to pay rent for temporary use of land belonging to others, which Mantri seems to have ignored. BMRC has nothing to do with this - kindly read up fully about the issue before continuing to argue.

beareaucrats working things out with politicos....more apt comparisons are with the CRS initiative Chandrababu Naidu did for HYD when he was in power with oposition at the centre..

Chandrababu Naidu's TDP party's support was necessary for the govt at center then, else govt would have fallen if he had withdrawn support. He was thus able to use his position to extract deals with the clout he enjoyed & demanded MMTS for Hyderabad. Karnataka politicians have never enjoyed such clout since there are no regional parties in Karnataka. State politicos have limits on how much they can influence railway ministry. Even Mumbai metro suffered huge delays for building viaducts across WR tracks since similar issues had to be resolved. Kindly read up about all this before continuing to argue any further.

Renting? the houses were built free of cost for them cos they were supposed to be EWS..it was probably the former MD's personal agenda to use his earlier experience in rural housing..on the outset it was a heart warming news but contributed to misplaced priorities for metro..

Yes, renting or living as they please of course since they had been ousted from their original dwellings. "Probably the former MD's personal agenda" - you have no proof. So kindly stop the hot air & bickering against the MD for this. "Misplaced priorities" - the priority is always first rehab of displaced persons in every project. If you are so convinced that it should not have been this way & BMRC should have met your aspirations for metro first, kindly file RTI or better a PIL to prevent this in future. I'm sure it will be thrown out of court & you may be fined for bringing up frivolous issues. Since you do not know, it is a norm with every project to relocate displaced people first & foremost.

heres the statement from Bosch about their movement

As long as they prefer to move out by themselves & not based on some fancy dream or wishlist by someone.

Dairy movement but I will let you know when I can find it

I dont want to see it. As long as they prefer to go by themselves, fine. But not to satisy someone's fancy ideas.

Btw this post of mine is going no where and nothing positive is coming of it and it was not my intention to bash anyone..so cosidering the uselessness of these comments and posts, I have voted to remove it myself..

Sure, go ahead & remove. However, you have ended up bashing BMRC for everything that you could lay your hands upon but I'm certain you have not convinced anyone.

srinidhi's picture

Here is what it is about BBMP

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Here is what it is about BBMP and Mantri..maybe u may want to correct ure stand..

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/bangalore/bbmp-cries-encroachment-slams-brakes-on-station/article4840125.ece

MMTS was a big project and it needed the clout..here it was the issue of a bridge crossing two IR tracks and not even as complex as the Mumbai metro issue where WR was planning a elevated section of their own at the same place..all that was needed in Blr case was to start early on it and get the design sorted..instead of BMRCL trying to decide on IR's responsibilty

I never said rehab should not happen, all I said was it needs to be done by the agency responsible for it.. like BMRCL always expected BBMP to maintain roads under metro viaducts..about personal agenda, read about the salient features of the houses built.

I dont need to convince anyone..my convictions are as strong as ever and will be too!

Naveen's picture

Still after BMRC

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Here is what it is about BBMP and Mantri..maybe u may want to correct ure stand..

The issue with BBMP appears to be a bogus claim & is different than IR. Before jumping to conclusions, kindly read up again - BBMP is insisting that Mantri has encroached into over two acres of govt land - how are you assuming that their claim is correct? If it is genuine, why have UDD Principal Secretary, high powered committee & even the high court all issued directives to BBMP to approve the joint development plan? Are all of them illegal directives too, including HC?
Even assuming BBMP's claim of encroachment against Mantri is true, how is BMRC responsible for Mantri's encroachment? The land in question is not at all part of station or viaduct construction & has already been handed back to BBMP for road development for availing TDR.
So, isn't this an impasse between Mantri & BBMP & not anything to do with BMRC? Kindly specify clearly what BMRC should have done instead of asking me to correct my stand - I think you need to correct yourself for trying to blame BMRC wherever possible.

it was the issue of a bridge crossing two IR tracks and not even as complex as the Mumbai metro issue where WR was planning a elevated section of their own at the same place..all that was needed in Blr case was to start early on it and get the design sorted..instead of BMRCL trying to decide on IR's responsibilty

Fyi Mumbai metro is much more delayed than Bangalore metro though track length for first section is only 11km. Second & third sections haven't even commenced after more than five years. What does start early mean? They cannot start before approvals for construction have all been received & funding arranged, can they? One of the news report you linked to clearly states that Sivasailam sought ministry's intervention to resolve the impasse, but you claim that BMRC has not used "avenues" to avoid delay.
What exactly do you mean by "design sorted"? Are you sure that IR had been prompt in granting design clearances? From the reports (& I also remember reading other reports earlier), communication between IR & BMRC had soured since several approvals had been delayed by IR & they had been demanding much more compensation & details than what was actually necessary.

This is also stated in the TOI report: "BMRC has claimed that checking the girder design is beyond the purview of the Railways and according to Railway Board guidelines, the role of the zonal railways is limited to granting approval only. The CMRS directive is at variance with the Railway Board directives, Sivasailam said in his letter".

So, how are you sure that BMRCL was trying to decide on SWR's responsibilty & not the other way around? How are you so easily accepting IR's stand as correct & BMRC's every stand as a lapse? Are you suggesting that BMRC wrote something fictitious in their letter to railways?

it needs to be done by the agency responsible for it

Normally, it is always the agency that undertakes project to carry out rehab & in any case, it is up to GoK to decide who the rehab agency is - not for an individual from public who feels otherwise. If you feel that BMRC should never have done it, why didn't you raise the issue at the beginning itself on praja & file a PIL with a plea to have it transferred to KSDB or other agency that you believe should have done it?

about personal agenda, read about the salient features of the houses built

You stated that people were well off & also had rented their spaces. Now you say "I never said rehab should not happen". What salient features of the houses built are you referring to?

I dont need to convince anyone..my convictions are as strong as ever and will be too!

Neither do I need to convince anyone & my conviction is stronger than yours for sure. All I'll say is that Sivasailam should have done better in regards to co-ordination for road restoration, public interaction & should have taken prompt action when contractors were not treating laborers properly. Beyond this, even with the delays, I think Bangalore metro has still manged better progress than others, except Delhi which gets preferntial treatment.

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